Same PP cars but faster acceleration.

[FSportIS]

I have played online with couple other players on different laps with 550 PP cars. I have used either the M3 and the LFA stock with little to no tuning but just max out the PP to 550. I notice that, right from the start, all other cars accelerate way faster than mine. Sometimes I do catch up to them in cornering but on the straight, they will take me over easily.

I also notice that over many laps, i am consistently slower than the top guy by certain seconds. I continue playing with them on many other maps. Same results, I'm consistently slower by some seconds.

For example, if i'm running 5 seconds slower than the top guy on each lap, then by the end of 4th lap, i'm running 20 seconds slower than him. Because of this consistency plus his faster acceleration on the straight, how is this possible? Is it because choosing the wrong car? Car lacks tuning? Driver's skill? Probably a combination of these??

Your feedback is really appreciated.

 

[Tornado]

Because the PP system isn't very good. It ignores so many parameters and has so many hidden ones that you have to go more on what other people are driving (the "Ace" cars, like the NSX-R and GT-R) to find one that will consistently win.

 

[PapaGnr]

I have played online with couple other players on different laps with 550 PP cars. I have used either the M3 and the LFA stock with little to no tuning but just max out the PP to 550. I notice that, right from the start, all other cars accelerate way faster than mine. Sometimes I do catch up to them in cornering but on the straight, they will take me over easily.

I also notice that over many laps, i am consistently slower than the top guy by certain seconds. I continue playing with them on many other maps. Same results, I'm consistently slower by some seconds.

For example, if i'm running 5 seconds slower than the top guy on each lap, then by the end of 4th lap, i'm running 20 seconds slower than him. Because of this consistency plus his faster acceleration on the straight, how is this possible? Is it because choosing the wrong car? Car lacks tuning? Driver's skill? Probably a combination of these??

Your feedback is really appreciated.

If the other players are tuning their cars with weight reduction, engine mods & custom transmission for example and then setting their cars to meet the PP, they will be way faster than you. Use your favorite stock car & just add a custom transmission with final gear ratio at say 4:11 and compare your lap times. You should be faster, especially under acceleration. Another factor would be weight reduction and then adding weight front or rear to get more equal balance, 50/50 being ideal. There are too many ways to attain the same PP. That's why some players prefer spec racing where everyone is using identical cars.

 

[TexRex]

Of course there's always plain old driving ability. Not to say that you're not very good, but there are those out there who are exceptionally so.

 

[Robbks]

I've asked elsewhere, but do we have any idea on how the PP is actually calculated?

 

[TexRex]

Factors such as power, weight, aerodynamics, downforce (natural or otherwise), tire width, and any number of others. It seems to be a secret over at PD.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

In my room, I have no tire restrictions. I often see people join and use sports tires.

I also don't restrict driver aids, so many of the drivers in my room use SRF. All of the fastest do.

Check this button

in online lobbies to see what aids/tires/pp/ect others are using.

 

[TexRex]

In my room, I have no tire restrictions. I often see people join and use sports tires.

I also don't restrict driver aids, so many of the drivers in my room use SRF. All of the fastest do.

Check this button View attachment 178997 in online lobbies to see what aids/tires/pp/ect others are using.

I do this as soon as it becomes available when I join a room. Not only for tire choice but also to see whether or not they use ABS. If they do, I know to keep the mirror in my peripheral to see them coming as there's a good chance they don't know what it takes to stop a car without it and I can keep my brake lights lit until they pass.

 

[Jbaffoh]

I have played online with couple other players on different laps with 550 PP cars. I have used either the M3 and the LFA stock with little to no tuning but just max out the PP to 550. I notice that, right from the start, all other cars accelerate way faster than mine. Sometimes I do catch up to them in cornering but on the straight, they will take me over easily.

What is often mistaken for "catching them in the corners," is just late braking and blowing the apex. Trust me, I did this far more than I want to admit. Most often, those cars pulling away on the straights are not in a faster car. They simply nailed the apex and started accelerating out of the corner before you. You closed the gap at entry, but they carried their faster exit speed through the straight and left you in your dust.

Prove it to yourself doing TT's in arcade mode. When you nail the apex, you'll leave your ghost in the dust, and find you gained several tenths, if not whole seconds, on just one sector. But brake too late and miss the apex? Your ghost, in your exact same car, will be long gone before your pedal is to the metal.

 

[SCClockDr]

I will add this as well.

In setting up a transmission, you can take the time to place your car in the best RPM range on exit from the 2 highest propriety corners (leading to the longest full throttle stretch). Getting that right can gain several seconds per lap. You are looking for a long run before an upsift vs exiting at or near the redline.

Online some rooms offer little time for setups so the use of the tuning tabs can help if you specify the track the tyranny is set for.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Gear ratios, power, weight, and drivetrain layout.

For example, the GT-R Black Edition has the same pp from the dealership as the Gallardo LP 560-4 but is faster around Suzuka. The Nissan trades gobs of weight for gobs of low-end torque.

GT-R:
3.8L
541 hp / 6500 rpm
467 ft-lb / 3500 rpm
1730 kg / 546 pp

Gallardo:
5.2L
552 hp / 8000 rpm
399 ft-lb / 6500 rpm
1410 kg / 546 pp

 

[GregOr1971]

PP should be taken only as approximate calculation of cars abilities, because you can have 2 cars that are same pp , but one accelerates faster ,while other got higher top speed. If you use them on Tsukuba ,you'll get different results (winner) than if you used them on SSXR.There is a lot of debates about pp calculations (right/wrong) just use "search".

If you wonder how good your driving skills are compared to others , you should do a "one make" race. Even when whole field is using same car , you'll see a lot of different laptimes that may be seconds apart , if all drivers are not on the same skill level or don't know how to handle given car or know a track . Then there is a question of tunning and assist. Don't mind tcs/abs ... but SRF thing and Racing tires are a bit too much off the reality , so if you don't use SRF , do not go into lobbys where people drive with SRF enabled, or if you're lobby host disable assists you don't use.

How make interesting races? Find people with similar skill level (laptimes) as yours and you'll have exciting up to last lap races.

 

[Z1-AV69]

Regarding the transmission suggestions I have to disagree strongly. Transmission hardly matters at all. What you want to do is tune the car for enough power so you can use somewhere between 10%-15% power limiter. This way you might have a little less peak power, but you will get your max power over a very broad range of rpm's which should cover all the rpm's you actually use. Example: If your peak power (or the top end of the flatline powerband) is at 7000rpm and a upshift there brings you down to say 5500 rpm, you should use enough power limiter to get flatline powerband after 5300-5500. This way you'll get effectively about 5-7PP of power more compared to when tuning right to the required PP. As a side effect throttle control will be easier too.

Of course the rest of the tune matters too. You wont stand a chance with a stock car vs. well tuned opponents.

The M3 and the LFA are a little weak on traction, so you might lose time at a standing start. But after that both have very good acceleration compared to others at that PP.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Gear ratios, power, weight, and drivetrain layout.

For example, the GT-R Black Edition has the same pp from the dealership as the Gallardo LP 560-4 but is faster around Suzuka. The Nissan trades gobs of weight for gobs of low-end torque.

GT-R:
3.8L
541 hp / 6500 rpm
467 ft-lb / 3500 rpm
1730 kg / 546 pp

Gallardo:
5.2L
552 hp / 8000 rpm
399 ft-lb / 6500 rpm
1410 kg / 546 pp

It's cornering speed and braking, not acceleration that makes the GT-R faster. The Gallardo actually acclerates better and has higher terminal speed on the straight sections in your own videos.

Regarding the transmission suggestions I have to disagree strongly. Transmission hardly matters at all. What you want to do is tune the car for enough power so you can use somewhere between 10%-15% power limiter. This way you might have a little less peak power, but you will get your max power over a very broad range of rpm's which should cover all the rpm's you actually use. Example: If your peak power (or the top end of the flatline powerband) is at 7000rpm and a upshift there brings you down to say 5500 rpm, you should use enough power limiter to get flatline powerband after 5300-5500. This way you'll get effectively about 5-7PP of power more compared to when tuning right to the required PP. As a side effect throttle control will be easier too.

Of course the rest of the tune matters too. You wont stand a chance with a stock car vs. well tuned opponents.

The M3 and the LFA are a little weak on traction, so you might lose time at a standing start. But after that both have very good acceleration compared to others at that PP.

Couldn't agree more. With the availability of the power limiter, transmission tuning means very little, and only in certain circumstances. If you're getting a lot of wheelspin out of a second gear on a specific track, you want to lengthen second or shorten third to compensate. On cars with peak power earlier on in the curve you want a taller transmission. On a Zonda C12 for example, I used to set mine up in GT5 for a top speed of 375 km/h + because you shifted so early. Beyond that and setting a car up for launch, just evenly space the gears and you're good to go.

 

[FSportIS]

Wow, you all are amazing in giving so much good responses. I greatly appreciate all the inputs. Now I learn couple things now:

1. I am paying attention to what other players are using in term of cars, tires and aids. It seems like the Lambo is very popular choice in some of the ones I played. I rarely see LFA or M3. People usually have ABS 1, some rooms disallow TCS, some doesn't and when it is available, almost everyone uses it except me. I believe most of them use tuned cars.

2. When i said catch them in the corner. I mean that I'm usually little faster in many corners especially with the M3 which handles quite good. However, in a pure straight such as from the start, their cars are way faster. I usually drive with late apex in the corner right before a long straight. However, in online environment, there are these players just cut into the early apex and use my car as their braking aid or something and sometimes knock my car out of the track which is very stupidly annoying. Do you guys encounter this and how do you deal with it??

3. I have played around with transmission tuning and wow, things have changed. Same PP, faster acceleration. I used a tune from a famous tuner here on the LFA http://praianogt6tunes.blogspot.com.br/2014/01/lexus-lfa-nurburgring-package-12.html . Acceleration is day and night difference.

4. "What you want to do is tune the car for enough power so you can use somewhere between 10%-15% power limiter. This way you might have a little less peak power, but you will get your max power over a very broad range of rpm's which should cover all the rpm's you actually use. Can you show me a specific example using the M3 chrome line car?

 

[FSportIS]

The LFA tune above that I use is quite interesting.

1. It seems to have very cool oversteering in which in the short technical court like Big Willow and others, my lap time improved in 1-5 seconds vs. stock keeping the same PP.

2. However, in the tracks that have long straight with high speed, this car is so hard to control. At high speed, it easily lost traction and spin. I can't imagine that I spin even braking in straight. I even tried racing soft + SRF, it helps a bit but braking at high speed even with the wheel straight will still make it spin. The racing soft tires are like comfort soft. What the heck. Now, reversing this back with the stock set up, it understeer a lot more but a lot more controllable. But the stock set up doesn't give me that sliding or power oversteer which is so fun in the short technical court with lot of corner.

Have someone tried that tune and experience what I experience. In short technical tracks, it is perfect but in the tracks with long straight, it is nightmare. How do you control the car (with that tune) in the tracks with long straight???

 

[Jbaffoh]

The LFA tune above that I use is quite interesting.

1. It seems to have very cool oversteering in which in the short technical court like Big Willow and others, my lap time improved in 1-5 seconds vs. stock keeping the same PP.

2. However, in the tracks that have long straight with high speed, this car is so hard to control. At high speed, it easily lost traction and spin. I can't imagine that I spin even braking in straight. I even tried racing soft + SRF, it helps a bit but braking at high speed even with the wheel straight will still make it spin. The racing soft tires are like comfort soft. What the heck. Now, reversing this back with the stock set up, it understeer a lot more but a lot more controllable. But the stock set up doesn't give me that sliding or power oversteer which is so fun in the short technical court with lot of corner.

Have someone tried that tune and experience what I experience. In short technical tracks, it is perfect but in the tracks with long straight, it is nightmare. How do you control the car (with that tune) in the tracks with long straight???

I've used Praiano's LFA tune and I have difficulty controlling it while braking. To counteract that, I raised the decel sensitivity in the LSD, and shifted the brake bias more to the front. I don't remember my exact settings.

Edit: I have not driven it since the 1.09 update changed the physics. Maybe this car suffers from those changes.

 

[meek]

Regarding the transmission suggestions I have to disagree strongly. Transmission hardly matters at all. What you want to do is tune the car for enough power so you can use somewhere between 10%-15% power limiter. This way you might have a little less peak power, but you will get your max power over a very broad range of rpm's which should cover all the rpm's you actually use. Example: If your peak power (or the top end of the flatline powerband) is at 7000rpm and a upshift there brings you down to say 5500 rpm, you should use enough power limiter to get flatline powerband after 5300-5500. This way you'll get effectively about 5-7PP of power more compared to when tuning right to the required PP. As a side effect throttle control will be easier too.

Of course the rest of the tune matters too. You wont stand a chance with a stock car vs. well tuned opponents.

The M3 and the LFA are a little weak on traction, so you might lose time at a standing start. But after that both have very good acceleration compared to others at that PP.

this is very interesting, can you elaborate or point me to posts that would further explain?

I've asked elsewhere, but do we have any idea on how the PP is actually calculated?

Factors such as power, weight, aerodynamics, downforce (natural or otherwise), tire width, and any number of others. It seems to be a secret over at PD.

only power/weight ratio, where the weight of the car is and torque in GT6, actually.
Maybe if PDI wasn't so secretive about said PP formula, we might be able to help them improve it.

 

[Z1-AV69]

2. When i said catch them in the corner. I mean that I'm usually little faster in many corners especially with the M3 which handles quite good. However, in a pure straight such as from the start, their cars are way faster. I usually drive with late apex in the corner right before a long straight. However, in online environment, there are these players just cut into the early apex and use my car as their braking aid or something and sometimes knock my car out of the track which is very stupidly annoying. Do you guys encounter this and how do you deal with it??

With a late apex you'll run danger to be back on throttle too late, which will hurt your speed on the following straight. I think the physics changes in the last patches favor "slow in fast out" or an earlier apex. But it's not a simple decision. As others have said above your lack of speed on the following straight could have to do with this.

Regarding dirty opponents: If you encounter a room where this happens all the time I'd recommend changing the room. At least in SRF off rooms this isn't normal from my experience. If it is just one or two players doing it, you could also say something in chat so the host recognizes it. I'd strongly advice to say it in a calm way without insulting anyone. You want to get the host on your side, make it easy for him.

But of course there are also "driving solutions". The key when a "dangerous opponent" is near is too avoid driving hard at the limit. It's better to ease off a bit, drive with more stability so you can take a hit without crashing. What to do depends on the corner and the track position, it may take a lot of practice until these guys can't hurt you anymore. You could brake a little earlier so he will hit your back straight while you make sure to be on the brake during the impact with enough room in front to still make the corner even after the push. Or you could take the corner a little slower while staying at the very inside to not let him get inside of you during the corner. From outside he can't hurt. If the opponent comes with too much speed, you can also brake early and approach the corner from the outside, inviting him to take the inside. If he is too fast in, he will miss the corner and you can take it behind him. And lastly, if he is far enough back you can also try a very late apex so he can't reach you on entry.

4. "What you want to do is tune the car for enough power so you can use somewhere between 10%-15% power limiter. This way you might have a little less peak power, but you will get your max power over a very broad range of rpm's which should cover all the rpm's you actually use. Can you show me a specific example using the M3 chrome line car?

this is very interesting, can you elaborate or point me to posts that would further explain?

I don't have a practical example at hand. But it's very easy to understand I think? If you want e.g. a car at 550PP, you should add enough power upgrades to get like 565PP. Then you use the power limiter to bring it down to 550PP. Your peak power will be a few hp lower, but you'll get a flat powerband over a range of 1500-2000 rpm. While driving and shifting your rpm will be in that "flat zone" all the time, meaning you'll always be running at peak power. This way you'll get a lot more power at the lower rpm's, like right after shifting, resulting in much better acceleration. You can optimize that including the transmission, but for beginners just tuning for like 15PP too much and bringing it down by power limiter will be enough for a big performance advantage, just try it.

 

[TexasTyme214]

The LFA lacks engine torque unlike something like a Viper or ZR1, but it has very high gear ratios to make up for it. Since the PP only looks at engine torque, the LFA can get away with having a lot more horsepower than cars that have high torque figures (when having a similar weight). Almost any high revving/low torque engine will have this trait: 905B, 787B, HSV, NSX GT500 (2003 and older), GSX-R/4, 155 DTM, Calibra, etc.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Straight from the dealerships:

540 pp
Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro
Ferrari F430

541 pp
Lexus LFA

542 pp
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6)