SCC Old Timer Event - Ferrari P330 P4 - Sunday Nov 22, 2009 - *Event Complete *

  • Thread starter Thread starter jjaisli
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If you're interested in taking part, please express your intentions by posting below with your PSN ID. If I seen any 'regulars' on-line before the event starts, I'll send you an invite anyway.


First of all I want to say just how great these races that you’ve been putting up seem – at least judging by your right-ups and videos. 👍
I’m one of the lurkers in this section of GTP (which, though a little slow on postings, is about the only grownup place here these days) who hasn’t quite got to an acceptable standard of driving in SC and/or had time to prepare to join one of your races. I was close to joining with the GTO because I began felling sort of comfortable with the car after some practice (nowhere near the pace of most people here) but then couldn’t as I had friends come round.
Maybe I’ll try my luck with the amazing 330P4, a car David Piper drove here in my hometown of Vila Real back in 1968 as seen on this thread (yes, I know it wasn't really a P4:)). Anyway, if I do, my PSN is RuiGT.

About your Montreal race, I remember you said you chose hard suspension in your TR; I had tried that car with a hard suspension there and on the curbs it was way too jumpy and uncontrollable – at least to me!
 
RUI: If you'd like to join in for some practice this week, share car setup ideas, driving ideas etc., do feel free to!
 
Thanks for the compliment Rui! :) And I do hope you'll join us. The 'Classic' events are meant to be fun and relaxing, just like real life historic events. It's more about the fun of getting to the finish line than the order in which you cross it. So don't worry if you're a bit off the pace. That doesn't mean that people won't try to win--when the lights go out, all bets are off. But so long as you don't drive the wrong way down the track and head straight into people, no worries. ;)

I'm afraid I won't be joining any of you today--just too much work in the real world. Maybe tomorrow. :(
 
Hi Rui, don't bother about pace, I second everything jjaisli wrote. Nice to know someone else from PT here (funny how SCC has so many irish and portuguese playing it :dopey: ).

By the way, my own hometown is Lamego, so we're not from distant places. When I was a kid my father (a racing addict) used to take me to Vila Real and I'm not sure to have seen Piper's 412P, but I know for a fact I was there in 1970 and 1971, so even if I didn't watch that beauty (and the GT40's it battled), I DID watch a 917 battling a 512M for real in 1971, and I remember it like anyone remembers impressive childhood moments. (to be honest, those cars scared me at the time :lol: )
 
Thanks, both of you.👍
I just hope to get enough time during the week to practice a bit. Most of the tracks for this event are quite a handful!
 
RUI
Thanks, both of you.👍
I just hope to get enough time during the week to practice a bit. Most of the tracks for this event are quite a handful!

feel free to join the pratice sessios that will occur during the week it's always nice to see another "tuga" in the grid of scc...add me up:tup:
 
Nice to know someone else from PT here (funny how SCC has so many irish and portuguese playing it :dopey: ).

Yep. That's System3's master strategy - "We must hit the Portuguese and Irish first. In time, everyone will see why... :dopey:"
 
Yep. That's System3's master strategy - "We must hit the Portuguese and Irish first. In time, everyone will see why... :dopey:"

It's the common celtic blood mates:dopey::dopey::dopey:💡💡
 
Any one willing to shear some tunes for this car ? .. he he he

You can putt me down for this jjaisli il be there for sure ... some one needs to full the back of the grid/pack .
 
AAhahah ... that was a forum killer ?!! .

Sorry for asking . will have to do it the hard way and tune myself LOL ... "makes mental note to do practise runs to see where is the safest place to hit the wall and not die"
 
After my Montreal GTO setup (to be fair, it worked fine at most other tracks) and after Mario telling me the 250LM setup I suggested for the last event was undriveable, I'm reluctant to share my setup advice on the grounds that it may be detrimental. But since you asked...

After trying various options, my current setup is:

-2 front ride height / stock rear

-1.50 front camber / -.75 rear

-5 rear toe (front stock)

- springs/dampeners soft/soft

- sway bars hard/hard

That's not to say I'm 100% satisfied with this or it's what I'll use on the weekend (it will if I don't manage to get anymore practice in this week) but that's where I am currently in the process. And it seems to be a mild improvement. I found that any radical changes to try and improve grip (hard suspension, lower ride height, extreme negative camber) end up making the car too unstable, both front and rear. A harder setup may work for Spa but would be a killer at the Nurburgring or Riviera with their tighter corners.

Edit: My next step was to try a few laps after removing the hard REAR sway bar. The larger rear bar seems to improve stability at the rear...up to a point. But when you start approaching the grip limit, it seems to have some wacky behavior leading to some odd drifts that can be a bit unpredictable.
 
Hey Ghost_Dice! I don't think your question was a forum killer as I have always found that the guys here are more than willing to share setup information.

The only problem is that the more information you receive about people's setup preferences generally leads to more confusion because they differ so much.

For example, my setup differs considerably from Jeff's. For a start, instead of lowering the front and leaving the rear default I have actually raised the ride height both front and rear. In fact, my car is, currently, not even level. The rear is higher than the front (F +0.04, R +0.12).

When it comes to camber and toe, I usually start by simply firing everything over to the extreme left hand side and working back from there if necessary. So far with the 330P4 I haven't felt the need to change this so the settings are as follows: F Camber -4.00, F Toe -0.25, R Camber -3.20, R Toe -0.25.

The other settings are:
Dampers - Hard front and rear.
Roll Bar - Hard front and rear.
Springs - Soft front and rear. (I know AlanG has gone with hard so I'm going to try that later)

So there you are. The only things my setup has in common with Jeff's are soft springs and hard roll bars!! Confused yet? You will be when you hear from some more guys!
 
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AAhahah ... that was a forum killer ?!! .

Sorry for asking . will have to do it the hard way and tune myself LOL ... "makes mental note to do practise runs to see where is the safest place to hit the wall and not die"

Set ups are like opinions each one has their one and thinks it's the best(and in did it is for himself...)LOL:sly::sly::sly:
 
Previously I was undecided how much difference setups make. After trying out a few things, it definitely can give raw grip/speed. Here is what I did with the 330P4. Silverstone National is my favourite circuit for trying out setups. It's short, has just 4/5 corners - a mixture of fast and slow. It's crucial to be able to lap consistently. otherwise you'll just fool yourself with a lap that happened to turn out well.

- I started with the default setup. Did some laps.
- Made the camber front/rear -2.6/-1.6. This delivered more cornering speed.
- Made the roll-bars hard. Didn't make a huge difference to be honest.
- Made dampers hard. Didn't make a huge difference.
- Lowered ride height to -0.3 front/rear. Not a huge difference.
- Made the springs hard. This made cornering faster. However too prone to oversteer.
- Changed rear anti-roll to soft. Didn't really help oversteer.
- Changed rear anti-roll back to hard.
- Changed the rear springs back to soft. Helped reduce the oversteer. Maybe tiny bit slower.

I havn't tried any toe settings. Might try that today. I have done this kind of comparison on other circuits/cars. It would seem to me that the big time savers are camber and springs. Generally, my default setting is to have everything hard - I have to find a reason to make things soft.

One thing I noticed was that Derek has more straight line speed than me. I had the same problem racing Henrick in the ROC (Vallelunga, 365 GTB). Last night I noticed it at Homestead oval. The whole way down the straights, the gap-time was just ticking up. Most of the time we even left the corner at the same speed (gap not changing), and then the gap would start moving. I suspect this is something to do with his ride height settings (that ride height idea has TheRacingElite written all over it!!).

I did a similar car setup test with the DB9, Silverstone National. I tried +6/+13 F/R ride height. Didn't really make me faster. Just made the car unstable under braking, and then slide upon corner entry. It may be faster for some people, if they like a more loose driving style.

I also tried -7/-7 on the DB9. Extremely level! Not an inch of roll (which I don't understand. Maybe it's simulated as the sides scraping on the ground or something). But definitely a bit slower.
 
From my short experience, all I can tell is:

1. soft and hard suspension settings have to be decided "by car". What works with some is a complete disaster with others. Anyway, I usually prefer "soft" cars.

2. Negative camber front and back (I usually go for -3 at the front and -1.5 at the back)

3. Negative toe at the back (around -0.10).

4. I don't usually change the ride height and when I do I don't find much difference to it.

So, my suggestion would be, start by changing camber and toe. After you find what you like, go mess around with all other settings.

PS - Last night I was invited to join a P4 lobby when I was about to call it a night. Had to buy the car, paint it blue (they used to be green but Derek reserved that colour :) ) and go for a very basic setup to be able to join the lobby before it was closed.

So, I only changed camber and rear toe (to my default settings), everything else was left at default setting. For a start, of course I was all over the place, but with a few more races I wasn't completely off-pace.
 
Confused yet? You will be when you hear from some more guys!

In that line I may had that I find out yesterday that I'm actually faster and I control better the car with default setups rather than with costum setup :crazy:

I was practising with

front camber: -3.5
rear camber: -1.5
Roll bars F/R: hard
Ride height F/R: -0.3
Dampers F/R: hard
Springs F/R: hard

I wasn't happy about it and set it all up back to default and went to track to start from there. I got better handling. In my opinion the pronounced body roll of this car actually helps you to control turn in corners.

I later tried to tweak again camber to get more grip coming out of the corners, tuning it to 2.5F/1.5R, 2.0F/1.0R, 1.5R/1.0R, 1.0R/F... The grip increase IMO wasn't that much significant and, the point where you'll come from understeer to oversteer become much more 'thin' (if you know what I mean), becoming very much harder to control the corner entry - with default camber settings, I feel it much more forgiving in corner entry - if you go too fast you can easily compensate the understeer by simply releasing throttle and turn in a little bit harder without ending with a loose wild rear.
 
I'm not sure where the ride height idea came from originally but it was suggested to me by Kevhead. I used to race him alot on FC and we were fairly evenly matched but when I first raced him on SCC he was suddenly leaving me completely for dead and I couldn't understand why. He then enlightened me about settings and my pace improved.

It certainly seems that my car has improved straight line speed with the ride height raised but it does compromise cornering speed. Earlier, I reduced the rear ride height and the car is now level and it seems to turn in better and is more stable through the corners. Having said that there is not a lot of difference in the overall laptime.

Edit: Alan, I hadn't seen your question when I made this post. As far as the reasoning behind the raising of the ride height is concerned I am at a loss to explain. I was always of the opinion that in the real world the best option was to have the ride height as low as possible and the only reason to raise it would be if the track was bumpy or there were a lot of kerbs to deal with. Another reason to raise the car would be if conditions were wet and you wanted to lessen the chance of aquaplaning.
 
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I was always of the opinion that in the real world the best option was to have the ride height as low as possible and the only reason to raise it would be if the track was bumpy or there were a lot of kerbs to deal with. Another reason to raise the car would be if conditions were wet and you wanted to lessen the chance of aquaplaning.

Yes, that's absolutely right; exactly what I had in mind.

The problem with an under-resourced sim like SCC is that changes to car setups may not be the same as one would expect in real life.
 
Gee thx guys helps allot .. Not confused at all .. i understand that setups are all down to driving style and diff cars and or tracks .

I just needed a push in the right direction so to say .. will deff get some tunes done tonight and start fine tuning the P4 .. this is a pritty awesome car .. even if its for sound alone ;)

On stock setup i found that its pritty drivable .. rear gets a lil loose on power out but is easy to catch and "power slide" ( i know it slows you down but its soooo much fun he he he ) .. So at first i will got max cam/toe .. soft rear and soft front on suspention, damper soft rear hard front .. and roll bars soft rear ( grip out a turn ) hard front ( stabilaty on braking ) ride height as low as possible ( with out “bottoming” out )

This will be an epic battle .. coz I do not think its going to go to the one that is the fastest. but the one that stays on the track . lol .

Thx for all the advice guys .. hoping with a good setup I will be right up there running with all of you .

Il deff also try all the segested setup and see what suite best ( most constant fast laps )
 
Hey guys,

New to the forum and new to SCC to some extent. Man, Dice, we really gotta learn to tune man!!!

Anyways, I am really keen to race with you guys on this and sink my teeth into this car a bit more!!
 
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Ah deff dude ... cant wait to hit some practise runs .. lol hows tonight after our championship ?? P4 need some TLC.

Also need some track time .. and get that braking point marked .. some reason if i mark it on the TV with the marker.. it keeps moving along when i drive off ??? .. LOL jk
 
OK, I have some setup news. Last night when I connected I saw many friends online but no lobby open for the P4 and, with the short amount of practise time I have I couldn't waste yesterday's opportunity to test settings.

So, I went to Mugello short (that's my practise track, not Alan's Silverstone National) and tried a few things, building up on my previous setup.

Now I can confidently say that Hard Front / Soft Rear works. Also tried that "ride height" thing but have no conclusions.

In support of my setup choice I give you my 1st place in the leaderboard for that car/track combo, in front of the Irish duo of Alan (by just a few hundreths) and Derek/turnup (by a full second). :D

That position won't last, I know I'm not as fast as these guys, but the simple fact that I could reach 1st place AFTER they've been there made me happy :dopey:
 
In support of my setup choice I give you my 1st place in the leaderboard for that car/track combo, in front of the Irish duo of Alan (by just a few hundreths) and Derek/turnup (by a full second). :D

:cheers:You're THE MAN!!! I know that old shirt stating that 'portuguese do it better' always was right!

(At least know you have a reason for not beeing mocked up by the our Gaelic friends tonight if we got beat by Bosnia)
 
By the way, my own hometown is Lamego, so we're not from distant places. When I was a kid my father (a racing addict) used to take me to Vila Real and I'm not sure to have seen Piper's 412P, but I know for a fact I was there in 1970 and 1971, so even if I didn't watch that beauty (and the GT40's it battled), I DID watch a 917 battling a 512M for real in 1971, and I remember it like anyone remembers impressive childhood moments. (to be honest, those cars scared me at the time :lol: )


The only pre revolution race I went to was in 1973 (by that time it was mainly Lola T292’s and Chevron B23’s sport prototypes). I remember mostly the out of this world (that world, rather) luxury of the studio RTP set up in the main straight stands, having had access to the VIP area since my father was a local authority. That race was broadcast live!
Being at the time only 6, I can assure you the noise of the cars also scared me like hell!
That turned out to be the last great race that took place in an amazing, challenging and dangerous racing circuit.

Check out this for more about that race and a map of the circuit.
 
I just did some tuning and testing. I raced all four tracks that we will be racing on Sunday. I even did 5 laps of Riviera in the rain, and it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. The track i am doing the worst on with this car is actually Mt Tremblont.

Anyway, here is my current tune:

------------ F/R
Dampers: soft/soft
Ride Hight: -.02/0.0
Sway Bars: hard/soft
Springs: soft/soft
Camber: -1.5/-1
Toe: -.01/-.05

I am using a G27, so controller users may or may not like these settings.
 
I'm quite happy with my tune now. Own the Mugello short leaderboard with nearly half a second over 2nd placed driver (Alan).

I don't think, however, that I have an easy car to drive. It's got a very "loose" feel and definitely in long corners it almost feels like it's floating and on the edge of losing grip in all four wheels.

Building up on my previous Hard Front/Soft Rear setup, I did basically two changes. Increased the negative camber in the rear wheels to -3.00 (greater value than at the front, and that's a first for me), and and set the rear roll bar to hard.

If I have the chance to play tonight, I will experiment messing around with ride heights, according to Alan you can get some speed increasing it both in the front and the rear.


btw, yesterday I finally left the comfort of my test track and joined a P4 lobby. First time I drove the car in Nurburgring, Riviera and Spa, second time I did it in Mt Tremblant (raced there with Jeff a few days ago). After a few hectic laps, I started to understand the braking points and where were the bumps I needed to avoid, so my last laps were always the best ones. Did a few good times (7th at Riviera, 5th at Spa, 4th at Nurb - discounting the impossible times - and 2nd at Mont Tremblant) so it was good :)
 
I've been so ridiculously busy with work, I haven't had the time (or motivation) to log on all week. I wanted to go a quick 15 minutes yesterday morning before work and check the leaderboards and ended up staring at the system update screen. :ouch: By the time it finished and I sent out the event reminder message, I was out of time. So I have no idea who's where anymore.

It sounds like your tuning 'direction' is leaning toward where I ended up for the last two races Mario. Fast but scary. :nervous: Good luck. I'm sticking with steady-n-safe this time. :)
 

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