Searching For Evidence of Hidden Things

[SVX]

Can't remember if I've shared this before, but found this:

Peep that CLK!

 

[NoGoodNames]

Is that the road car too!? So both the race car and road car we're meant to be in GT2, shame both had to be cut!

 

[submaniac93]

Is that the road car too!? So both the race car and road car we're meant to be in GT2, shame both had to be cut!

Considering the hidden CLK DTM has no livery I'd say it's rather the Race car with no livery or something.
Mercedes really lacked good cars in GT2...

 

[NoGoodNames]

Considering the hidden CLK DTM has no livery I'd say it's rather the Race car with no livery or something.
Mercedes really lacked good cars in GT2...

Makes sense, I guess the CLK shown in IGN screenshots was maybe a racing modded one, since there are cars in a similar class to the CLK which have their racing mods transform them into their racing counterparts (eg. Elise GT1, Jaguar XJ220, Lister Storm).

 

[MMRivit]

Makes sense, I guess the CLK shown in IGN screenshots was maybe a racing modded one, since there are cars in a similar class to the CLK which have their racing mods transform them into their racing counterparts (eg. Elise GT1, Jaguar XJ220, Lister Storm).

Also worth noting: in the demos, there were more cars that required such modification to have race liveries, including the R390 GT1 (both 1997 and 1998), Silhouette Formula R30, GT-One (both 1998 and 1999) and Citroën Xsara Rally Car. In the final there was also the scrapped NSX LM GT2 that would be obtained by race-modifying a 1993 Acura NSX.

 

[Michelin Man]

Also worth noting: in the demos, there were more cars that required such modification to have race liveries, including the R390 GT1 (both 1997 and 1998), Silhouette Formula R30, GT-One (both 1998 and 1999) and Citroën Xsara Rally Car. In the final there was also the scrapped NSX LM GT2 that would be obtained by race-modifying a 1993 Acura NSX.

Interesting, didn't realise they didn't have liveries in some of the demos either (with the exception of the Xsara rally Car), which demo's would they have had no livery of curiosity? Would have thought that would be in some of the earlier demos like the McDonald's or Test Drive discs. Also, wonder if there's any video footage of them?, that'd be interesting.

 

[MMRivit]

Interesting, didn't realise they didn't have liveries in some of the demos either (with the exception of the Xsara rally Car), which demo's would they have had no livery of curiosity? Would have thought that would be in some of the earlier demos like the McDonald's or Test Drive discs. Also, wonder if there's any video footage of them?, that'd be interesting.

You can find them on the PlayStation Underground Jampack - Winter '99 (mid demo) and later demos (Euro Demo 53 and Test Drive, which is actually the latest build before the final Japan arcade disc). There isn't anything special about the models though, they're the same you can find in the final except they're labeled differently. They suggest, for example, that you'd race-modify a Nissan R390 GT1 '98 Road Car to get the [R]Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car, while in the final game one model has nothing to do with the other. The Silhouette Formula would be obtainable from (one of?) the R30 you can find in the used Nissan car lot and the Xsara would be obtainable from the regular road car, like many of the arcade mode rally cars.

Also forgot to mention the Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupé, originally obtainable by race-modifying a road car that ended up being scrapped.

 

[Michelin Man]

You can find them on the PlayStation Underground Jampack - Winter '99 (mid demo) and later demos (Euro Demo 53 and Test Drive, which is actually the latest build before the final Japan arcade disc). There isn't anything special about the models though, they're the same you can find in the final except they're labeled differently. They suggest, for example, that you'd race-modify a Nissan R390 GT1 '98 Road Car to get the [R]Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car, while in the final game one model has nothing to do with the other. The Silhouette Formula would be obtainable from (one of?) the R30 you can find in the used Nissan car lot and the Xsara would be obtainable from the regular road car, like many of the arcade mode rally cars.

Also forgot to mention the Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupé, originally obtainable by race-modifying a road car that ended up being scrapped.

Ahh cheers, just interested me that they had no livery initially. Funnily enough, it did cross my mind, that those examples above may have intended to be attainable via race modding their road-car equivalent. Suppose it's like many of the the other stand-alone race cars, that were perhaps supposed to be attainable via RM, like the Elise GT1 if I remember correctly. Suppose it looks like the same may have been planned for the CLK GTR too.

Yea, remember reading about the Cobra Daytona planned to be attained via RM. Wonder if that was linked to the beta Cobra that had been found in different colours in the demo's? Didn't that Cobra look more "road-car-like", in its appearance as, beside the additional colours?

I don't I'm just theorising, most likely wrong , but it fascinates me, with all the beta cars, and unused/dropped cars, that there was clearly plans to include them in some manner, whether it was via RM's or what, as there's no way they'd go to waste of course.

 

[B_rad88!]

Actually in my copy of gt2, that 93 acura nsx race mod is hidden. The only way in the usdm disc to get the nsx-r is by body swap gs codes. But the game can be modded to make them visible and accessible. I did, by deleting the mobil 1 nsx race car and replaced it with the nsx-r.

My mod video coming soon!

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

^Hey, I did something like that before! Though all I did was just do a body swap, I was too lazy to do much else.

 

[BisharpVercetti]

Can't remember if I've shared this before, but found this:

Peep that CLK!

Can we get a closer look at it?
Its wheels seem different, more GT2-esque

 

[SVX]

Can we get a closer look at it?
Its wheels seem different, more GT2-esque

No can do sorry. Found it for sale on an auction site.

I could scan it if I bought it, I just don't have the cash or need for it ($6, plus +$7 in fees and domestic shipping and maybe a further $9 to get it to me).

 

[B_rad88!]

^Hey, I did something like that before! Though all I did was just do a body swap, I was too lazy to do much else.

Yeah thats what I had done at first. But in the end wasn't happy with just a acura rm, so I spent about a month modding all(languages and regions in my usdm copy of gt2) of the carinfo and unist. files to change the name. If you want a copy to fully change the mobil 1 nsx (only except year, hp and weight I haven't figured out how to change yet. It needs to be 2 years older, 50hp and 300lbs less, but its good enough for me now instead of just a rm), I can send you a copy of my work and try it out. I just can't tell if I did it correctly for non-usa files. Thats why I need volunteer testers.


And sorry for the delay on my video, I had one hell of a stressful weekend and so far a horrid start of the week.

Edit:

After long waiting, its finally here!


My 1st GT2 mod project video:




Please enjoy! Thank you!

 

[submaniac93]

Not bad. I'm impressed with the texture changes. I didn't think it was possible. The double turbo blow off sound is a little annoying on the long run to me though ^^'
As for the sound mod, your RX7 makes a supercharger-like sound because it's using GT1's stock exhaust for the Mazda Lantis 2000 Coupe Type R aka 323 Coupe

 

[SiriusR]

Is there any tutorial thingy on how to mod GT2? Like, how to edit textures, sounds, etc, and how to pack that stuff back into the game? PM me if there is.
I'd really like to add an engine modification to the Jaguar XJR-15 that would increase its displacement to 7-7.4L and increase its power to 700hp, without replacing the car's stock specs.

 

[submaniac93]

You won't find any tutorial thread, that's for sure. Because that would be a violation of the rules (which is kinda bothersome but whatever).
As for myself, I know a lot about hybriding and about sound modding (only car engine and exhausts though, and also only from GT2 or GT1, not from outside sources), but textures and game data such as car specs I have no idea how to change, if possible at all.

 

[SiriusR]

You won't find any tutorial thread, that's for sure. Because that would be a violation of the rules (which is kinda bothersome but whatever).

That's why I asked to PM me, as I don't expect it to be on this forum.

 

[tankuroded]

@SiriusR @B_rad88!

If you have noticed, I also run a Discord server related to this stuff as well, so you can talk the more "delicate" stuff there (Invite in my signature).

 

[B_rad88!]

Not bad. I'm impressed with the texture changes. I didn't think it was possible. The double turbo blow off sound is a little annoying on the long run to me though ^^'
As for the sound mod, your RX7 makes a supercharger-like sound because it's using GT1's stock exhaust for the Mazda Lantis 2000 Coupe Type R aka 323 Coupe

Oh its possible, but a little difficult(how I did it, I cheated because incerting a new .tim or even to replace the .tim, it messes up and becomes all glitched out, so I got around it by cheating........and no hexing......lmao{dang it I just gave away the secret}). I have done many things no one else has talked about! I also successfully changed track billboards (which you can see in the video also my custom hot tahitian night skybox) I might make a tutorial for it, but I gotta talk to some people.

Yeah the blowoff its a little annoying, it came from the jdm gt2 trial version demo (the only gt2 demo with blowoff sound).

And I know its plain engine sounds, but the odd combo make a cool result! Stock exhaust of that, and a engine of something else....... lol

Is there any tutorial thingy on how to mod GT2? Like, how to edit textures, sounds, etc, and how to pack that stuff back into the game? PM me if there is.
I'd really like to add an engine modification to the Jaguar XJR-15 that would increase its displacement to 7-7.4L and increase its power to 700hp, without replacing the car's stock specs.

There isn't many tutorials on this forum....

Garaghini's custom nameplates

And

Mmrivitt's custom car palettes

Is the only ones. I did have a title screen tutorial, but it was removed for talk of illegal activity. I'm rewriting it. The sound mod tutorial (writen by me, with help from Submaniac93 {the sound expert} may be posted..... but I gotta ask a few people first.

Also the mods your talking about isn't possible, other wise I would have fixed the year, hp and weight on the nsx-r swap mod, but its not possible. Sorry. (Edit: actually it might be, but I would have to give my self a massive huge headache and also tring to figure out the coding of a few files in a hexeditor! {not easy})

Also SiriusR, I can help you out some, I just got alot going on. So please be patient. What region do you play?

@SiriusR @B_rad88!

If you have noticed, I also run a Discord server related to this stuff as well, so you can talk the more "delicate" stuff there (Invite in my signature).

Yes, I have seen it. But it says that I have to use an apk, ugh. I just haven't made an account or anything yet, Sorry.





Edit: 4x now! I keep putting off rewriting these sound files..... ugh. I need to get them done!

 

[SiriusR]

I think I have the solution to the Plam/Palm Strip's mystery.

It's not a drag strip.

It really is Apricot Hill Raceway.

This guy proves my thoughts well enough: https://tcrf.net/Talk:Gran_Turismo_2#Palm_Strip_.3D_Apricot_Hill.3F
(the license test in question is IA-3; it does use the "l_plam" track file and its course map is a harsher version of Apricot Hill's course map).
Another solid proof of it is that no official media before GT2's release ever mentioned Palm/Plam Strip and Apricot Hill together.

- - - - - - - - - -
As a neat bonus - Eiger Path is highly likely Grindelwald's early name for similar reasons.





upd: Does anybody remember this early track list?
In fact, it features every single track from the final game (except Motor Sports Land, which is rather secret even in the final game), just under different names.
I've matched track names from this article with track names from the final game in the attached text file. Everything fits like a glove. No leftovers from either side.

 

[NoGoodNames]

So this alleged "drag strip" under the name of Palm Strip, known to exist for many years, is really just an early name for Apricot Hill? I can see why it was changed, because having "Strip" in the name implies it being a drag strip for the well-known cut drag racing mode, evidenced by a graphic in the demo plus MANY pre-release articles.

Eiger Path as well, being early Grindelwald... kinda makes more sense, especially since both Grindelwald and the Eiger Nordwand tracks in GT5 / GT6 are both set in Switzerland.

I never would've thought of North American Roadway being Pikes Peak... I always thought it was an early Seattle name, and many people thought it was the well-known Indi track from the demos. I guess this explains why Pikes Peak has a tarmac section in the demos...

One more interesting thing to note is Tahiti Maze being referred to as Tahiti Dirt Route 2... I guess shortly after they scrapped the Safari Course name for TDR3 they wanted to make the names of all the Tahiti courses similar but probably changed it to avoid confusing players... Tahiti Maze is a better name anyway, because driving on that course did seem very complex. Complex String from GT3 got its name for a similar reason...

 

[SiriusR]

So this alleged "drag strip" under the name of Palm Strip, known to exist for many years, is really just an early name for Apricot Hill?

I was rather mind-blown myself, but apparently yes, it is. A poor choice of a name because Japanese developers are prone to mistakes like that.
Also of note is that Apricot Hill is as old as mentions of Palm Strip, while no actual drag strips have been implemented in GT2 at all. Not a single demo has anything resembling a drag strip that's not a part of Test Course. Same for the final game.

I never would've thought of North American Roadway being Pikes Peak... I always thought it was an early Seattle name, and many people thought it was the well-known Indi track from the demos.

I never would've thought myself, but the name fits both location-wise and difficulty-wise. Not to mention that otherwise Pikes Peak and NAR would be the only tracks without of their respective pair.
Indianapolis Speedway doesn't fit difficulty-wise, Seattle is already listed.

 

[BisharpVercetti]

I still believe North American Roadway is Indi.
I mean, it currently makes the most sense really. It could've been just a case of misunderstanding what a roadway is.
Also,

I think I have the solution to the Plam/Palm Strip's mystery.

It's not a drag strip.

It really is Apricot Hill Raceway.

This guy proves my thoughts well enough: https://tcrf.net/Talk:Gran_Turismo_2#Palm_Strip_.3D_Apricot_Hill.3F
(the license test in question is IA-3; it does use the "l_plam" track file and its course map is a harsher version of Apricot Hill's course map).
Another solid proof of it is that no official media before GT2's release ever mentioned Palm/Plam Strip and Apricot Hill together.

- - - - - - - - - -

upd: Does anybody remember this early track list?

These two might give us a final solution to what Palm Strip truly is.
Aside from the fact that the list indeed has Palm Strip instead of Apricot Hill despite it clearly having a huge picture of not one, but two Apricot Hills, I wouldn't really rule out the possibility of it being a drag strip.
Upon looking closer at the image, I did notice this:

Open that list up and look for yourself. These two extra bits of road, which we never saw in any versions of the track, hint at something more... Drag racing-ish. It isn't the pitstop road, and the whole straightway seems to be surrounded by plants...
My conclusion from this is Palm Strip was indeed Apricot Hill, but was also going to double as a racetrack and a drag strip.

-------------

Edit: Upon looking at it again, the track seems to be different than Apricot Hill. However, it fills in a lot of the signature things Apricot Hill has. A long curve, a set of slalom corners, a long straightway, it's even got the hills in the middle. Perhaps this is a really early version of Apricot Hill, the actual Palm Strip.

EDIT: This was kind of a dumb thing, but I'll just keep it here for laughs

 

[SiriusR]

I still believe North American Roadway is Indi.
I mean, it currently makes the most sense really.

The article lists NAR as difficulty level 10 track, while listing Test Course as difficulty level 1 track and Super Speedway as difficulty level 2 track. If NAR was Indianapoils Speedway, it most likely would be listed as difficulty level 1 or 2. Why would they list a track with left turns only as difficulty level 10 track while listing two other similar tracks as difficulty level 1 and 2 tracks is beyond me.
Also, Pikes Peak is situated in North America, so...

It could've been just a case of misunderstanding what a roadway is.

They're Japanese. Remember, they've called a full-fledged racetrack a strip.

Edit: Upon looking at it again, the track seems to be different than Apricot Hill.

It's Tahiti Dirt Route 3.

 

[BisharpVercetti]

The article lists NAR as difficulty level 10 track, while listing Test Course as difficulty level 1 track and Super Speedway as difficulty level 2 track. If NAR was Indianapoils Speedway, it most likely would be listed as difficulty level 1 or 2. Why would they list a track with left turns only as difficulty level 10 track while listing two other similar tracks as difficulty level 1 and 2 tracks is beyond me.
Also, Pikes Peak is situated in North America, so...


They're Japanese. Remember, they've called a full-fledged racetrack a strip.


It's Tahiti Dirt Route 3.

Aw man...
I thought I made a ground breaking discovery
Guess this is what I get for thinking stuff late after midnight...
...
Though, you're right about North American Roadway actually being Pikes Peak.
I mean, Pikes Peak Roadway exists, and North American Roadway seems to be either a placeholder for until they could get some sort of license, or just a beta name of it.

 

[SiriusR]

Aw man...
I thought I made a ground breaking discovery
Guess this is what I get for thinking stuff late after midnight...

When I made the post about Palm Strip being Apricot Hill, the local time here already got beyond the midnight mark as well.

I mean, Pikes Peak Roadway exists

So there is actually a Pikes Peak location called Roadway? Wowzie.
5 minutes in Google show what seems to be like a tarmac version of GT2's Pikes Peak Hill Climb. But then, there's a postcard that calls PPHC a "Pikes Peak Highway".

 

[submaniac93]

Pike's Peak used to be the Nurburgring of rally tracks... now it's all tarmac. It doesn't make it a bad track, but it just not the same.

 

[SiriusR]

In other news, Smokey Mountain South and Green Forest Roadway(!) have quite a similar layout.
Of note is that compared to GFR, SMS looks rather simple, bland and monotonous, giving the impression of being just an early version of GFR.

 

[NoGoodNames]

I've realized for quite some time that Green Forest and Smokey Mountain South have similar layouts. Green Forest seems more complex however.

Could be why they're both referred to as "No Name Dirt" courses in the demo, as by that point Polyphony weren't sure which one to use, but ultimately decided to use both under different names.

Now that I think about it, I think Green Forest had something to do with what would've been the GT3 layout change of SM South, before being renamed to Swiss Alps, and basically becoming a whole new track.

 

[Michelin Man]

I remember reading the whole Palm/Plam Strip mystery, way back in this thread, before I started posting and was just a lurker, but I remember the links between Apricot Hill and "The Strip" being made, and that was always my suspicion back then. Even then, I remember when the course files for Palm Strip where being examined, with strong evidence being shown for the two being linked, since they weren't listed as two separate tracks.

Especially when I remember reading the picture of the article previewing GT2's tracks, and seeing Palm Strip being listed as a difficulty 7 track, it started to make much more sense. So now, whilst I was pretty much certain myself, it's seems more obvious that Palm Strip was indeed an early name for Apricot. What this perhaps does, is make the rumour of a proposed drag strip even more of a mystery, since there is no track (aside from tracks used in Licence Tests) which can be associated as being a Drag Strip. My opinion, is that they never got round to implemented, or even creating a drag strip, and that they just got as far as creating the Drag Mode/Racing sub-menu, as found in the demos.

However, 18 years after GT2, and we're still discovering various little hidden details, tracks, and even cars still, I'd say there's still some things left to sort out.

About North American Roadway, I too initially thought it was the name given to Indi from the demos, but after seeing the article pictures, that theory fell away. The only other American track then, I linked the name to (aside from Seattle), was Pikes Peak, and it does make a lot of sense now, especially as @BisharpVercetti mentions, that it was more than likely a placeholder name before; much like Palm Strip, things were finalised.

In other news, Smokey Mountain South and Green Forest Roadway(!) have quite a similar layout.
Of note is that compared to GFR, SMS looks rather simple, bland and monotonous, giving the impression of being just an early version of GFR.

Don't know why I've never noticed that before, as they are remarkably similar, both in terms of layout, but also the environment and scenery too. And
also, the fact that Green Forest does look like an initially simpler version of Smokey Mountain, does give the idea that one was a "beta" version of the other, and that they almost didn't know which to implement to the final build, so just added both. That idea would then tie in to the changes made the GFR, that resulted in the Swiss Alps we got in GT3, but that's just me theorising.