Should Gran Turismo 6 even have AI competition?

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I'm well aware that the internet is not available to everyone out there but I'm starting to feel that playing against an AI is something that will become a thing of the past. Gran Turismo 5 has provoked this thought as I can't help swearing inside my head everytime I deal with the singleplayer aspect of GT5. However, it's not so bad that I stay away from it but I'll admit that online mulitiplayer is much more rewarding when you play against some decent players. GT5s online multiplayer isn't flawless but somehow it feels so much more true to what made the GT series great in the past. Even the distribution of money and XP in online multiplayer is kept at a level which makes it feel great to buy a new car just like in the old GT games. I'd be radical and say, scrap everything that involves AI competition because Polyphony Digital obviously seem to have a problem with this. Could you imagine a GT game which is built up around an online multiplayer experience which is greatly expanded when it comes to diversity, player stats and community features? For example, what if the UCD was based on a marketplace where players could sell/buy cars from each other instead of the current questionable in-game day cycle? The foundations are there, the servers and leaderboards already form the basis for what many people seem to enjoy more than anything else in the game.

A lot will probably say, just stick with the features you enjoy most and stay away from singleplayer if it gives you a headache. I just think PD could create a much more complete experience if they take a brave move and focus on making online play something so complete that we never want to face an AI competitor again. GT6 is most likely still a few years away and will probably be a next-generation title. However, I'm sure that Sony/PD wouldn't like to loose sales to customers who don't own an internet connection. But those same people still play an unpatched version of vanilla GT5 and have probably lost faith that GT6 would be any better. I personally hate threads where people reveal their vision for a future GT game because our minor influence makes it seem highly irrelevant. My question is just, would the future of GT be brighter without an AI?
 
Until they fix the difference between offline and online handling (RS tires feeling S2 tires) I could care less about online.
 
MikeTheHockeyFan
The gaming industry has shifted to favouring multiplayer content in many games, and I expect future iterations of Gran Turismo to follow this route.

I could see future GT games taking the A-Spec career mode online with matchmaking.

  • You open up GT Life, check your calendar. Okay, it's Sunday.
  • The events running (available) today are Sunday Cup at Fuji, Clubman at Midfield, whatever, so you select an event
  • You are matched up with other online drivers entering the same event, and the rest of the 16-car field is filled out with AI
Look at the amount of offline vs. online content in AAA FPS titles. Look at the amount of offline vs. online content in the last NFS or two. We're headed in that direction with GT. Online gameplay beyond the open lobbies (which are great and a PC-style multiplayer racing experience on the consoles is rare), DLC cars and tracks for additional revenue, etc.
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This person has a GREAT idea, but I'd like to put my own small spin on it. Personally, I don't think that AI would ever be needed for an online career mode. Sure, we may not have 16-person races every time we play, but I doubt we'd have any problems getting to at least 8 people, especially considering there would a limited amount of A-Spec events everyday.
 
I barely play online, and if I do it's in an organised league.

I rarely find a random online room is better than the AI!
 
I like racing against the ai every sd o often especially when I have encountered a bad room so no I wouldnt want it to be online only
 
DaveTheStalker
Until they fix the difference between offline and online handling (RS tires feeling S2 tires) I could care less about online.
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Wow, talk about over-exaggeration. Especially since there are no S2 tires in the game. Presume you mean Sport Medium's? I could agree with RS tires feel like RM's online, but I would also say the online handling characteristics feel more life-like than the offline physics. So, personally, I would have to disagree with your entire argument. But to each his own.

I think GT, or any racing console game, will have AI in it for a long time. But hopefully advances in technology will be able to make the AI better and more like real people. The real problem is with GT's racing philosophy, I would love to race against good AI but would not look forward to more of the current model that forego's qualifying and just gives you a certain number of laps to overtake the whole field. That is not really racing in the sense that most of us would expect.
 
Of course GT6 should have AI and offline racing. PD would lose millions of potential customers because they either have terrible internet, no internet, or just don't want to play a game where you're forced to endure the idiocy that you experience online.
 
BroncosXR8
I barely play online, and if I do it's in an organised league.

I rarely find a random online room is better than the AI!
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You don't race in enough leagues then.

BrandonW77
Wow, talk about over-exaggeration. Especially since there are no S2 tires in the game. Presume you mean Sport Medium's? I could agree with RS tires feel like RM's online, but I would also say the online handling characteristics feel more life-like than the offline physics. So, personally, I would have to disagree with your entire argument. But to each his own.
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👍
 
Single payer isn't even close to good, organised online league racing, and probably never will be. Beating real people with their own unique driving styles gives much more satisfaction than beating AI drones.That doesn't necessarily mean they should completely remove the AI from GT. Upon joining this forum I was massively surprised how many people still only use single player and by completely removing AI racing, PD would lose a lot of sales.

I think it's quite clear a lot of people join a few lounges, hate the crashes and overall poor experience and as a result never go back to it. A revamped online lounge system with a safety system would work wonders for GT, but first off they need to fix the bug that is currently grinding most online play to a halt. :grumpy: GT online has massive potential but is ruined by its poor implementation.
 
If GT went to purely online with no offline I wouldn't buy it. GT5's online experience leaves a lot to be desired and is considerably behind the curve when compared to it's PC based counterparts. Given that it's just as easy to plug my laptop into my plasma as it is to fire up GT on my PS3, this is a no brainer for me.

I play GT for the offline mode. I enjoy building my garage, getting licenses, and making my way up the A-spec ladder. This is what GT has always been for me, and IMO is it's core strength and what makes it appealing to so many people.

If I want to race real people I'll use better software and hardware to do it with.
 
interpolfan11
This person has a GREAT idea, but I'd like to put my own small spin on it. Personally, I don't think that AI would ever be needed for an online career mode. Sure, we may not have 16-person races every time we play, but I doubt we'd have any problems getting to at least 8 people, especially considering there would a limited amount of A-Spec events everyday.
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Until you consider that half of the people in the race will simply be interested in ramming the hell out of each other (and you).

Sorry but given human nature I seriously doubt this would work, it can be hard enough to fine a clean race, let alone rely on that totally for A Spec.


Scaff
 
Good idea, but only in theory. Why? Because people are people. And they will do anything that takes at certain point to reach their goal. What does it mean? It means all those races would be infinite pile of punting, crashes and dihonest behaviour.

You will say how it would not happen, but I assure you it would. Just look what was happening in the matchmaking races in times of Prologue. In order to compensate for mostly intentional moronic behaviour of drivers in public lobbies, PD had to introduce penalties, than ability for cars to become translucent, than combination of both. You will agree how any of mentioned systems wont be welcomed in any kind of online career mode.

For example, Shift had a nicely imagined VS mode, where players would progress through tiers-pyramide by winning in one-on-one races. To pit it simple, out of probably hundred VS races I driven, not a single one was without deliberate intention of other player to kill me on the track by any mean imaginable.

Second, there is theorethical option to play ASpec with friends. But than majority would just plainly cheat with progress intentionaly and ruin any serious acomplishment. Something along the lines to allow ranking in COD in Private Matches. It just wouldn't work.

To conclude, there is no way you can establish a progressive online Aspec mode without sacrificing fair racing and driving etiquette and ensuring a conditional and fair possibility of progress for all involved.

Career structure of GT asks for AI from many perspectives, while online can be used in the current way to collect prizes such as in-game XP or Credits, but without any serious influence on the structure. It can be expanded with various team-options, online Seasonal races, online Missions, etc., I would welcome that.

Of course, only solution would be to completly change the structure and introduce the progress system similar to tiers such as in iRacing. But that kind of hard-core approaxh would instantly alienate 90% of potential players so it is not an option.

On the other hand, thank God for progress in processing power and experience that PD is gathering by collecting data from every GT player on planet. Those two combined will certainly result with better AI and improvements in the overall artificial sections of all future games.

And I hate phone-typing so sorry for potential typos.
 
I personally would not buy an online-only Gran Turismo game. Gran Turismo needs to keep its offline modes. The solution to the problem mentioned in the original post is to improve the AI drivers, not get rid of them. I've played racing games online in the past and they have been a miserable experience... I've had people trying to ram me off the track constantly, I've had people swerving to stop me passing, I've had people quitting as soon as I pass them, etc.

Offline is a safe haven, where I can relax and have a clean race without being sweared at by an annoying ten year old child. The AI drivers aren't that good, but they are better than the majority of online players. Polyphony Digital need to make the AI drivers more competitive and expand on the A-Spec mode.

In Summary : Online racing is horrible, Offline racing just needs a few improvements.
 
X-Power
In Summary : Online racing is horrible, Offline racing just needs a few improvements.
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Online racing can be fantastic as long as there's a system in place to encourage drivers to race clean. But I can't imagine GT would ever implement such a system, it would require more overhead than they seem to want to deal with.
 
X-Power
I personally would not buy an online-only Gran Turismo game. Gran Turismo needs to keep its offline modes. The solution to the problem mentioned in the original post is to improve the AI drivers, not get rid of them. I've played racing games online in the past and they have been a miserable experience... I've had people trying to ram me off the track constantly, I've had people swerving to stop me passing, I've had people quitting as soon as I pass them, etc.

Offline is a safe haven, where I can relax and have a clean race without being sweared at by an annoying ten year old child. The AI drivers aren't that good, but they are better than the majority of online players. Polyphony Digital need to make the AI drivers more competitive and expand on the A-Spec mode.

In Summary : Online racing is horrible, Offline racing just needs a few improvements.
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I'd just like to add that this has barely ever happened to me after playing online racing games since the PS3 came out. I'd hate to ruffle any feathers, but I honestly think most of these occurrences are few and few between and over exaggerated.
 
VTiRoj
Of course GT6 should have AI and offline racing. PD would lose millions of potential customers because they either have terrible internet, no internet, or just don't want to play a game where you're forced to endure the idiocy that you experience online.
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Bingo.
 
Someone mentioned racing leagues above, to be fair not everyone has the time to put into a racing league, some of us just want to go online for a few hours and hope to have some good races. With the current system this is very hit and miss for me as I have a hard time getting into most rooms and there from time to time tends to be somebody who likes to ruin the rooms for everyone else.

If there were no AI in the game, I'd definitely not buy it myself.
 
It doesn't surprise me that there are quite a few put off online by bad public experiences in this thread. I've been there and nearly gave up completely on GT5 untill I somehow stumbled on GTP. Seriously, try league racing (when the bug is fixed).

Someone mentioned racing leagues above, to be fair not everyone has the time to put into a racing league, some of us just want to go online for a few hours and hope to have some good races. With the current system this is very hit and miss for me as I have a hard time getting into most rooms and there from time to time tends to be somebody who likes to ruin the rooms for everyone else.

If there were no AI in the game, I'd definitely not buy it myself.
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You aren't the only one who is put off by online lounges but hasn't got the time to commit to leagues. Try the casual racers affiliates program. I hear nothing but good things about it and it looks like just what you're after.
 
None of the other GT's have had AI competition. Why should 6 be different?
 
If they did this, people in the world with terrible or sometimes, even no internet period, wouldn't be able to play GT at all !
 
interpolfan11
I'd just like to add that this has barely ever happened to me after playing online racing games since the PS3 came out. I'd hate to ruffle any feathers, but I honestly think most of these occurrences are few and few between and over exaggerated.
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Is this just based.on your own experiences? In that case it would make up a very little percentage of online play not sure how you can say its over exaggerated
 
If PD found a way to make AI compete relatively well, not just passive cars on invisible train tracks, it would make A-Spec much more interesting...
 
GT6 will definitely still have A Spec and B Spec racing. I think we here at GTPlanet who spend a lot of time racing/tuning/driving etc, forget there is a whole class of more casual consumer who just wants to get into a car and drive around a few laps here and there and doesn't need a garage of 1000 cars and race online every night to be happy. Not many people race online as it is now. Some nights you have maybe 150-200 North American based rooms online, most of which are no where near full so at best maybe a couple thousand people online.

A more competitive and realistic offline experience would be welcome. I am confounded as to why they don't have degrees of difficulty in A-Spec and B-Spec and races more limited in tuning and car selection. I shouldn't have to spend my time figuring out whether I need 450 or 475 or 500 hp on RS/RM/RH tires on my GT500 car in a B-Spec race to make it an interesting race. Perhaps 5-10 levels of difficulty would be a very welcome idea and make both A and B spec far more interesting. AI's that took real racing lines and ran good lap times would be fantastic!!
 
I think the current AI in gt5 is acceptable for most gamers and with gt6 I think it will only get better. Theres several pc sims out today that have great AI. Would be nice if gt6 implemented a system like the gtr games where you could control the skill (pace?) of the ai for a race.
 
I think that the online part is great, but I also think that the AI is pretty good. Especially scince the update where they can be made more agressive in arcade mode. It will probably evolve even more in GT6, so I don't see any reason to cut away the AI.

Also, online racing can be very rewarding, but also very frustrating. A lot of times it's much too agressive and the penalty system is not good enough to fight the bad driving behaviours (like, it can't make a good enough distinction between who is causing a crash and who is the "victim", often resulting in giving both cars a penalty, or in worst case only the victim). Also, much of the casual online races are rather short, usually only a few laps. It's hard to find longer races that will suit you and your hours. You can join a league that's more organized, but everyone doesn't have the time to do that.

And then there is the lag issue, online racing is not as smooth as offline racing. And when it's bad it can ruin an entire race for everyone. It's an issue that needs to be addressed regardless if the offline parts are scrapped or not.

So to conclude, I think that GT6 should have AI competition and offline racing.

Edit: Also, online games have the disadvantage that they demand a lot of your time. The ultimate flaw of online gaming is this: You can't pause an online game. Might sound like a trivial issue, but it's an important structural change compared to offline gaming, ultimately it means that you no longer have full control of your gaming - you have to play until the game is done, the game is deciding when you are free to go. If you leave early, abandon a race in the middle, it results in sanctions from the community, sometimes small enough to go unnoticed, sometimes rather big (like, you're less likely to be invited to new races, or you could be excluded from a league, etc). It's not unique for GT5, but rather a phenomenon that occurs in most MMO games. In the end it will lead to conflicts in the family, and no game, regardless of how good it is, is worth that. Online racing should be the extra flavour that adds a spark now and then, but I personally don't like the idea that online racing should be the key element of future GT games.
 
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I'm suprised by how people keep complaining about bad online behaviour. In my opinion, you come a long way by using the 'race for real' filter and it also helps to add the good players you encounter as PSN friends. Just like in the real world, not everyone behaves as you would like them to. Don't disqualify online gaming because idiots are everywhere.

Online multiplayer allows us to play the game with likeminded players as we desire. Singleplayer forces us to play the game as PD has envisioned. A vision which more than ever seems to be out of sync with what people expect from a game nowadays. So why not focus on improving the things that offer a custom experience instead of having a singleplayer aspect which does little to please even the average player? They might miss sales by making an online only game but are the numbers worth consideration? It's a fact that the consoles and games of today rely on the internet. Developers and publishers must have adopted to this idea in the age of patches and DLC. Who even knows if GT6 will be sold on a physical format? Record labels are already phasing out physical formats in favour of digital distribution.
 

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