Should GT6 start over or be a continuation of GT5?

[THEPUNISHER]

yes i want new things and every thing new or rather old ( i like the map of career mode in gt4 )

 

[deep_sky]

Sure they can make a wishlist, but no car models or anything solid until the know what the hardware is.

???

You don't need final hardware to know what quality of models to make. I'm sorry, but you don't make any sense.

Master assets for games are created at a much higher fidelity and resolution, and then crunched down to fit on the hardware. That is clearly what has happened with GT5's premium cars.

 

[FishHunters]

On-topic: Oh dear, yes, it should be a continuation! The amount of time invested in the Premium cars and new tracks is reason enough, and now that cars are modelled in a much more appropriate way (see above),

1. I really don't see a gigantic need for a large up-tick in model fidelity for the Premiums.

2. add new cars to the series, while expanding on car customization,

3. The more (real) tracks, the better, too

4. a more detailed physics engine (& Damage)

5. improved weather systems,

6. and bigger (maybe even multi-class) fields.

Perfect! If this was GT6 with a minimum of 500 new cars I"d be estatic!

 

[ckfool]

Yeah 500+ cars would be nice. And no more of this 50+ variations of an mx5 that all look the same. Actually 500+ more models!

 

[Exorcet]

You make no sense whatsoever. I use a wheel and I am completely aware that both cars can be treated the same way.
Models from a previous gen game/console are considered quality nowadays? I can't possibly see how can someone defend the idea of standard cars.

I don't see how someone can place such a high value on graphics.

Why not? Models up to the current standards of Premium wouldn't exactly be low-rent, not half as bad as the current Standards of GT5, simply because GT5's Premiums are modeled as multi-piece items, not all-of-a-piece like the PS2 legacy models. Models can transfer fairly easily; PD could "over-engineer" models and then modify them down to manageable sizes once specs for a new system are finalized, to use simple terms. Of course, this is all assuming GT6 is on PS4, something you and I both agree isn't a sure thing.

I suppose that makes sense.

If this game were purely about the racing and nothing else, that'd be a valid point. But the graphics play a part, in immersion, and things like Photomode. It increases a player's attachment to their cars, really. Replace every Premium with car models on par with GT1's (a few hundred polys per car) and it'd tank, no matter how good the physics engine is underneath. All the games' various pieces need to be up to a quality standard; not just the physics, but also not just the graphics.

PS2 graphics are enough to immerse me. And a big reason for that is that physics play a bigger part in immersion than graphics do for me.

You're completely right that if GT6, no matter the system, had PS1 or PS2 graphics, it would be a dismal a failure. I've never considered the idea of a standard car only game realistic, as nice as it would be.

I don't really have any aversion to nice graphics. It's just that graphics is one of the most minor details in games - and PD gives it way too much priority.

On-topic: Oh dear, yes, it should be a continuation! The amount of time invested in the Premium cars and new tracks is reason enough, and now that cars are modelled in a much more appropriate way (see above), I really don't see a gigantic need for a large up-tick in model fidelity for the Premiums. Converting select Standards to that level of quality, and continuing to add new cars to the series, while expanding on car customization, is really all I could want from the series. The more (real) tracks, the better, too - I like the rest too, but there's a good chunk of real ones I'd love to drive using GT's physics engine. If the next installment comes on a more powerful system, I'd love to see that extra power used on things like a more detailed physics engine, improved weather systems, and bigger (maybe even multi-class) fields. There's so much that could be added, that even some hypothetical wunder-PS4 could easily be tapped out. GT5 really is a good foundation, even great in certain ways. PD just needs to start building

I agree with a lot of this. Modeling the cars* and tracks again would be a waste of time

*Unless they switch to less-than-premium cars that take less time to model

The extra power of a new system should be focused on Physics and AI. Graphics are fine as is.

You think the physics on standards are better?

No. The physics are the same with both. The quality from standards just comes from the fact that you get a more diverse game from behind the steering wheel. I guess that this could go under quantity though.

My basic idea would be this - premium cars were one of the worst ideas PD has ever had.

It makes me very uncomfortable to see so much post about throwing away all the standards, unless they're upgraded to premium. I just can't believe it. We're talking about hundreds of cars more that we can potentially DRIVE. No, they don't look as good as premiums, but they drive great. Does that even matter to you guys? To be honest, I'm fine with how they look. Perhaps, I'm the minority on that, but unless you zoom them during paused replays, the cars ARE better looking that PS2, and especially PS1 (really?).

Yes.

???

You don't need final hardware to know what quality of models to make. I'm sorry, but you don't make any sense.

Master assets for games are created at a much higher fidelity and resolution, and then crunched down to fit on the hardware. That is clearly what has happened with GT5's premium cars.

Then I was wrong. Thanks for the correction.

 

[cygnus_zero]

I'd like to see something different. I dont care how much was invested in GT5, I think the game sucks. It's worse than Forza 3 in too many ways. It's very obvious to me that something drastic needs to happen.

 

[Frozzy]

I don't see how someone can place such a high value on graphics.


My basic idea would be this - premium cars were one of the worst ideas PD has ever had.

I like to value every car as equal as any other car in the game. Simply put
Maybe I am just the type of person to appreciate cars to it's very finest details.
I don't wanna drive one very detailed car in first person while enjoying it and then find myself in a very low detailed car without cockpit.
How can premium cars be the worst idea by PD? Can someone help me out on this. This guy is making no sense to me whatsoever.

Majority of the standard cars sound like they shouldn't, I don't feel immersed at all, especially sitting bumper cam with GT's basic cluster on the screen. How can anyone appreciate this?
Oh right hardcore simulators... Smh

 

[vk56dehan]

I like to value every car as equal as any other car in the game. Simply put
Maybe I am just the type of person to appreciate cars to it's very finest details.
I don't wanna drive one very detailed car in first person while enjoying it and then find myself in a very low detailed car without cockpit.
How can premium cars be the worst idea by PD? Can someone help me out on this. This guy is making no sense to me whatsoever.

Majority of the standard cars sound like they shouldn't, I don't feel immersed at all, especially sitting bumper cam with GT's basic cluster on the screen. How can anyone appreciate this?
Oh right hardcore simulators... Smh

LOL because he doesnt appreciate the detail and hard work that went into making them. Some dont care about the graphics side of games and believe its a waste of valuable time. Or/and, premiums have raised the consumers expectations so much...graphics is all they will pay attention to. I on the other hand, am OCD as hell. Drives me nuts when the graphics are not near perfect (for the time and tech). Honestly, I will never be 100% happy graphics wise on any game...very unfortunate. But, the premium models are very nice to look at...PD did a good job on those.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I'm not speaking on behalf of Exorcet, but I imagine his point is that the Premiums were a bad move on the basis of the time needed to create them. 6 man-months per car is a huge amount, especially as it just doesn't need to be that long in this day and age, with laser scanning available and (possibly) getting CAD data straight from manufacturers. Of course, the former requires money instead of time (though Sony seems absolutely fine with giving quite a lot of money to PD), and the latter requires very close relations with the car manufacturers.

Another point: the law of diminishing returns. If, hypothetically, PD had settled on say, half the polygons of the current Premium count (circa 250,000 instead of half a million), and limited themselves to 3 months per car... would they be only half as good as the ones we have now? No. It's over-simplifying a bit to prove a point, but as it stands, there's no reason to think that 1/2 the time invested (or half the polygons) equals half the quality. The standards (at least the GT4 ones) are hovering around 4,000 polygons per car: I'm not even a fan of them, but I won't call them over 100x worse than Premiums . The one strange thing I always come back to about Premiums, though, is the talk pre-release about the amount of detail available in the interiors of the cars - since we can't examine them in Photo Travel (without glitching), just see them during cockpit view racing, was that tireless work to show the stitching of the back seat of the Challenger really the best option?

That said, changing how cars were modelled in the series was imperative. The one piece models of GT4 limit both customization and damage, something the new style of modelling can accommodate better. Which ties into my whole original point about holding onto the current foundations of GT5 to use for GT6 - think of it like a Christmas tree: you need a solid tree to hang all the decorations off of (like customization, more in-depth liveries, damage, and even more detailed physics calculations).

 

[vk56dehan]

I'm not speaking on behalf of Exorcet, but I imagine his point is that the Premiums were a bad move on the basis of the time needed to create them. 6 man-months per car is a huge amount, especially as it just doesn't need to be that long in this day and age, with laser scanning available and (possibly) getting CAD data straight from manufacturers. Of course, the former requires money instead of time (though Sony seems absolutely fine with giving quite a lot of money to PD), and the latter requires very close relations with the car manufacturers.

Another point: the law of diminishing returns. If, hypothetically, PD had settled on say, half the polygons of the current Premium count (circa 250,000 instead of half a million), and limited themselves to 3 months per car... would they be only half as good as the ones we have now? No. It's over-simplifying a bit to prove a point, but as it stands, there's no reason to think that 1/2 the time invested (or half the polygons) equals half the quality. The standards (at least the GT4 ones) are hovering around 4,000 polygons per car: I'm not even a fan of them, but I won't call them over 100x worse than Premiums . The one strange thing I always come back to about Premiums, though, is the talk pre-release about the amount of detail available in the interiors of the cars - since we can't examine them in Photo Travel (without glitching), just see them during cockpit view racing, was that tireless work to show the stitching of the back seat of the Challenger really the best option?

That said, changing how cars were modelled in the series was imperative. The one piece models of GT4 limit both customization and damage, something the new style of modelling can accommodate better. Which ties into my whole original point about holding onto the current foundations of GT5 to use for GT6 - think of it like a Christmas tree: you need a solid tree to hang all the decorations off of (like customization, more in-depth liveries, damage, and even more detailed physics calculations).

You make good points. Btw, not doubting the fact at all but I would like to read the article...were did this 6 months to model a premium come from? Heard this claim several times but Ive never seen this stated other than in forums. If somebody could post a link it would be much appreciated. Too many variables when google searching to get a clear answer w/o knowing what Im looking for specifically.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I believe this is the accepted first source (needs translation), though "6 months Kazunori Yamauchi" will return plenty of viable Google hits.

 

[ckfool]

I'd like to see something different. I dont care how much was invested in GT5, I think the game sucks. It's worse than Forza 3 in too many ways. It's very obvious to me that something drastic needs to happen.

Unfortunately even FM2 trumps a lot of GT5 in my opinion..

 

[IceMan PJN]

Since it will be on the PS3, I'd settle for an updated and improved GT5.

Save GT7 for the PS4.

I don't remember reading anywhere, aside from fanboy speculation, that said GT6 will be for PS3.

The GTFDL needs to remember two important things here:
1) It takes Polyphony Digital more time to accomplish less.
2) PS4 isn't several years away.

Keeping these in mind, GT6 for PS4 is a very realistic possibility.

 

[Bushby_23]

I don't remember reading anywhere, aside from fanboy speculation, that said GT6 will be for PS3.

The GTFDL needs to remember two important things here:
1) It takes Polyphony Digital more time to accomplish less.
2) PS4 isn't several years away.

Keeping these in mind, GT6 for PS4 is a very realistic possibility.

The same can be said to combat your first statement.

Ps4 probably won't be released next year, maybe 2013. Then again, no one knows for certain except maybe a few dozen Sony and game publisher execs.

 

[E28]

I'd hope for 500 unique premiums, then 200 variations (different liveries, M5 and 5-series, Camaro Z/28 and SS)

 

[Tireseas]

To be completely honest, keeping all the "progress" from GT5 would be disastrous. You'd essentially be asking to pay $60 for what amounts to an expansion pack or DLC.

IMHO, scrap *everything* from GT5 except the premium models that already exist. Rebuild the game, and series itself, from the ground up. Don't even give it a number, just Gran Turismo. Give us a lean, focused game polished to a razor's edge. Build it with the online mode being the central pillar rather than what amounts to an afterthought. Stop trying to cram MOAR CARS and MOAR FEATURES in and go back to the basics, a killer physics model and even deeper customization.

 

[C-ZETA]

Both. I would scrap the game first, then build it up again, with more of everything. The reason for this is because GT5 isn't a broken game in the first place, but building on it is only just adding on, and for the most part not taking care of previous flaws. But they should build more in, definitely.

 

[Raitziger]

Same engine, new game. Graphics update thing is so last gen