Should Music Piracy Be Illegal?

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by space


No prob

I'm a fence walker on this issue. Both sides have points, some good some bad.

So another question...

At what point does it become illegal?

When you get the music from someone you dont know?(i'd say this is illegal)

Or does is illegal when you dont have the orginal CD.
EX.- most of my music comes from my direct family.(mom, dad, brother) Since i dont directly the CD is it illegal?(to me this is not illegal, but rather perfectly fine.

What about music from DVD's movies, games, etc...

Since the Movie, game etc. payed for the rights to get the song in the movie etc.., and you payed for the movie or whatever the media was, technically(as i see it) you have the right to own a copy of that song.

What about live recordings that are never released? Covers that are never released? remix? bootlegs? the list goes on...

It's easily compared to pot/weed/grass.

• It's illegal to have mp3s of copywriten music that you don't own.
• It's illegal to recieve mp3s of copywriten music that you don't own.
• It's illegal to distribute mp3s of copywriten music whether you own it or not.

The only legal way to have them is to download free mp3s, or make mp3s from albums that you own.

On a side note, I once read that you are allowed to make a copy of a musical album (CD, tape, record, 8-Track) owned by a family member or a 'close friend'. I can't find that source again so I can't back it, but I'm pretty sure that is part of the copyright.

~LoudMusic

 

[space]

Ok, so that covers about 80% percent of my music.

Now on to that 20 percent...

That 20% is comprised of various remix's, live songs, cover songs.

Alot of the remixes i got off of mp3.com. so as far as i know their all honkey-dorey.

Live songs- As far as i know they are bootlegs from concerts. are they copyrighted since they were never relased on CD?

What about cover songs, Most of those i couldnt find on CD either.

I'm still intrested in this though

Since the Movie, game etc. payed for the rights to get the song in the movie etc.., and you payed for the movie or whatever the media was, technically(as i see it) you have the right to own a copy of that song.

Anyone with a background in law(or some knowledge), could you explain this?

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by space
At what point does it become illegal?

When you get the music from someone you dont know?(i'd say this is illegal)

Or does is illegal when you dont have the orginal CD.
EX.- most of my music comes from my direct family.(mom, dad, brother) Since i dont directly the CD is it illegal?(to me this is not illegal, but rather perfectly fine.

What about music from DVD's movies, games, etc...

Since the Movie, game etc. payed for the rights to get the song in the movie etc.., and you payed for the movie or whatever the media was, technically(as i see it) you have the right to own a copy of that song.

What about live recordings that are never released? Covers that are never released? remix? bootlegs? the list goes on...

Well, this depends on the country you live in - but I think you'll find it is technically illegal to copy any music (at least in Australia).

Under the terms of the vast bulk of concert tickets it's a breach of admission to take recording equipment into the concert. As such, it's not illegal to reproduce the concert, but the artist or promotor can sue you at a civil level.

Remember the source - many bootlegs and what have you have probably been taken in breach of an agreement at the source - by a sound engineer or similar.

You may have a right to own a copy of the song but you do not have the right to reproduce that copy, and certainly not to distribute copies of that song.

Songs and images for films and other media will usually be used under license by another party and subject to the same restrictions.

I understand there is a little loophole in Australia where a cover of a song is free game. There was a song used by one of the banks here a couple of years ago that was caught by this.

 

[space]

Originally posted by vat_man

Under the terms of the vast bulk of concert tickets it's a breach of admission to take recording equipment into the concert. As such, it's not illegal to reproduce the concert, but the artist or promotor can sue you at a civil level.

So is it copyrighted material? My whole train of though has been derailed

So is it fair game it the artist doesnt care if you record the concert? I remember that Dave Matthews Band didnt care if you recorded the concert.

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by space
Ok, so that covers about 80% percent of my music.

Now on to that 20 percent...

That 20% is comprised of various remix's, live songs, cover songs.

Alot of the remixes i got off of mp3.com. so as far as i know their all honkey-dorey.

Live songs- As far as i know they are bootlegs from concerts. are they copyrighted since they were never relased on CD?

What about cover songs, Most of those i couldnt find on CD either.

I'm still intrested in this though

Since the Movie, game etc. payed for the rights to get the song in the movie etc.., and you payed for the movie or whatever the media was, technically(as i see it) you have the right to own a copy of that song.

Anyone with a background in law(or some knowledge), could you explain this?

Oh boy ...

As far as I know, everything on Mp3.com is 'free'. Those are cool.

Live songs from concerts (bootlegs) are on a 'per artist' basis. The band I mentioned, Dispatch, encourages bootlegging. Metallica, I believe, does not. Their copywrite extends to the concert music, but owning the album does not entitle you to copy the music. This would be varified by the fact that they don't allow you to take a tape recorder into the concert. If you want to hear it live, buy a ticket.

Cover songs ... very interesting. I have no idea how that works. From what I understand, the original artist can sue another artist for 'making profit' by playing a copywriten song live, or recording it on a CD. A thing called "royalties" comes into play here. Most artists are cool with bands playing covers at concerts, it promotes their music and hey, maybe someday they'll want to play something that the other band wrote. I think the copywrite still stand, but once again, owning an album with the original recording does not entitle you to take a copy of a covered song.

Movies - no. That is wrong. You own a copy of the movie, not the song. If that were true you would have the right to drive all the cars in the movie too. And make copies of all the art that was in it. I don't think so.

~LoudMusic

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by space


So is it copyrighted material? My whole train of though has been derailed

So is it fair game it the artist doesnt care if you record the concert? I remember that Dave Matthews Band didnt care if you recorded the concert.

That's an artist/promoter thing. If you've got the ol' Sony dictaphone at the local pub I don't think the local coverband's going to be too worried.

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by space


So is it copyrighted material? My whole train of though has been derailed

So is it fair game it the artist doesnt care if you record the concert? I remember that Dave Matthews Band didnt care if you recorded the concert.

You have to recieve prior concent from the artist.

Basic rule of thumb: If it's not your's, don't make copies.


~LoudMusic

 

[space]

Its all fuzzy math

Ok so what would you do to try and stop it?

You'd have to buy-out/shutdown/maim all the p2p programs like morpheus, winmx etc.

They you start a pay system program.

5 cents a download would be a good charging price (for me)

According to the guy on the grammys (president of the academy), 3 billions songs are downloaded a month

At that rate(i'm sure the download will go up too) 3 billions songs at 5 cents a peice is 15 billion dollar a month, times 12 is 180 billion dollar a year!(did i do my math right?)

What does the music industry bring in in revnues now?

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by space
Its all fuzzy math

5 cents a download would be a good charging price (for me)

According to the guy on the grammys (president of the academy), 3 billions songs are downloaded a month

At that rate(i'm sure the download will go up too) 3 billions songs at 5 cents a peice is 15 billion dollar a month, times 12 is 180 billion dollar a year!(did i do my math right?)

Yeah, very fuzzy. That's 15 billion CENTS. 150 Million dollars. And keep in mind, people still aren't going to pay, because there are other ways of transfering mp3s than using public peer to peer software. Take the classic protocal of FTP for example. Or how about IRC, the world's greatest sesspool of evil (that's where I got my start (: ).

So maybe 10% start paying. 15 Million Dollars a month. That's not enough to keep them happy. The way I see it going ...

The music labels stop producing as many copies of albums.
The artists stop going to music labels for publicity.
The artists start touring more on their own.
Concert venues get bought out by the music labels.
There are a lot more concerts to attend.
Music review becomes a huge industry, and the bands with the best review sell more tickets.
Merchandise becomes a bigger industry.
I still don't attend concerts or buy keychains that have band junk on them.

~LoudMusic

 

[space]

I knew i forgot to do something in there

Its a virus, and we'll prolly never find a cure for it.

 

[Canker]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
Dude, that's not much of a question. It IS illegal.

~LoudMusic

Worded badly.........

and Yes it should but thank God it's NOT!

 

[Schumy]

Originally posted by Canker




Worded badly.........

and Yes it should but thank God it's NOT!

no Canker, i believe that's the way Loud intended on wording it .... he's saying that it is illegal with the emphasis on "is"

 

[jag_man_v12]

ok ill put my :2cents: where I live the top radio station has this thing, they wait untill the album has been out for a while or the single and then they start playing it, and you say to yourselve love this song so you go down to the shop to buy the single only to be told its been out for ages. and is not available on a single anymore you want it buy the album. but I dont want the album its to expensise to by albums all the time so you go to a MP3 download the song for free.. who wins and who loses

and another point be being an oldie there is a lot of songs I like that are only on albums with heaps of others songs you dont want, so you download it im still the winner

I just want what I want, not what people want to sell me.

 

[Macka]

OK here comes my :2cents:

What about taping a song off of the radio, for free? Electronics companies have been making stereo equipment that can tape music off of the radio (and then dub copies of it) for decades now.

My position is, when the radio station broadcasts something over the airwaves, it becomes public domain (even though it's copyrighted)

So if I tape "The Electric Slide" off of the radio, and then give it to my brother in exchange for his taped copy of "Like A Virgin", that's illegal?

You may say this is apples and oranges, but in principle I believe it is not.

People will still buy CD's. Eventually I believe that file sharing will survive, but will always suffer a constant onslaught from recording companies. Napster shut down? So what, now I use Winmx. For every one that gets busted there's going to be 2 more to take its place.

And that's just fine with me. I really don't think David Geffen is declaring bankruptcy anytime soon.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Hmm. I run on an illegal basis, but one which I think is fair(ish):

If it's a single that I like, and I can't buy it any more, I download it. I don't really agree with the singles market, because I think that CD singles are massively overpriced, and much of what is in the charts is sex-driven music, rather than music-driven music. Hence the plague of the boy-band. In this way, I have obtained music without paying for it, but generally, if it's good enough, and available, I would pay. I have a job, and therefore earnings, therefore it's only fair that I pay for the things I want to enjoy.

If it's an album, I buy it. Period. Albums are things to be treasured, to be collected and held. I have 650 CDs and I don't plan on stopping buying them any time soon. I do sometimes download an album before buying it, to see if I like it, but if I do, I will buy it. If not, it gets deleted.

Downloading music that can be bought is like going to a sweet shop with money in your pocket, and stealing the sweets rather than paying for them. Stealing = theft = illegal.

Now, onto copyright issues:
If you have an album, it is legal for you to rip that album onto your hard drive, for you to listen to (say as part of the world's biggest CD multichanger). It is not legal for you to make the stored mp3 files available to anyone else.

Likewise, it is legal for you to copy the album to put in your car (because we all know that car CD players trash CDs). But it is NOT legal for you to listen to the original of that album in the house while the copy is in the car. Because you effectively have two copies. Even worse, say your housemate listens to the album while you are out listening to the copy. This is bad.

Music piracy should remain illegal, because it is only right that artists should benefit from giving you the pleasure of listening to the track. If you get tracks without paying for you, that is plain wrong. I know I'm a hypocrite, and that I'm doing wrong, but if the music industry continues in its policy of deleting back catalogue items, that's all the piracy I'm going to do.

G

 

[Tom M]

I'm betting that this internet "free for all" lasts no more than another 5-10 years. Too much money is being lost in piracy whether it is music, movies or software. (and a few other things) Last year the US government subpoenaed all the records of US broadband providers for use in legislation used to prosecute people that are doing it as we speak, and to form new legislation giving lawmakers a broader sword for future litigation.
XP users should have all read by now that all media file transfers are logged (not with your user ID, right now they just want to know what kind of volume is being moved) and filed.
Anyone that is also abreast on the Newsgroups scene should also have heard the stories of police raids arresting people posting copyrighted material to newsgroups servers. (Specifically the "DrinkorDie" group was targeted, and several large volume movers in various states.)
I love all the responses that cite "I think it's ok because..." Or "Here's why I think it should be free..." Because they are all garbage. Pure and simple. If you are doing something illegal, crack half a smile and wink because you know it's illegal. Don't justify why you think it is ok, because you just sound stupid to the rest of us. Take a little responsibility for you own life for a change.
Sure one can argue that Michael Jackson might not miss a few million, but what about smaller bands just starting out? What about musicians that have been around forever (BB King etc etc) that make less than nothing from their music because they either have less lucrative contracts because they are new, or less lucrative contracts because they are recieving royalties based on the economy 40 years ago...?

 

[jag_man_v12]

i totaly agree that is illegal and yeah the artists are missing out
but I just want what I want. its the music industusty destoying them selves by give people what they want them to have

its like another off the subject case your going on a holiday for say 8 days and the only do insurance for 7 days , 10 day or 14 days you have to pay more for samething you want

I would like to buy songs from a artist I like and give him the royalties, but no I have pay royalities to other artists on collection albums some who are no longer alive or together were is the sence in that

 

[mayorbill11_]

yes music piracy, specifically MP3s in the UNITED STATES should be illegal, because they are such a large influence, its not illegal here in canada, and i think the artists deserve what they work for, but anything illegal has loopholes, if the vast majority of people think something is illegal they might not bother with it too much... quitters i say, but theres enough people doing what they do, the artists have made their points, the fans have made their points, people still buy CDs and people still download MP3s, what happens, happens.

 

[piesupreme]

it's gone out of control. basically 2/3rd's of people who use the internet of have a reasonable PC has mp3's. that's a good few million (billion?) people which are breaking the law. this can't be stopped, the government are a pile of wank for letting the major loophole come through.

let's say, 4 years ago (maybe more). the RIAA should see this new, amazing music compression codec, and it's predicted that it's gonna spread fast. so what do they do? nothing. they don't even send out a warning until it's too late. Ok, so let's say they banned mp3's altogether. what would they do about people copying whole CD's with mp3's, giving them to a mate, him copying, maybe adding a few, making some more? they're always gonna be here until mp5 comes out. there ain't no escaping them.

anyway, why did you bring up this subject, stealthviper? do you want mp3's to be legalised, or stay illegal? do you not like the benefit of having music on your PC, more than you could store on any CD made? the idea of listening to one type of music, then listen to another with a few, lazy clicks of a mouse-button?

ok, i respect the fact that some artists are getting ripped off.

oh ****, don't they earn enough money already? what are they complaining about? what have they got to worry? they have the car, the house, the girl (or bloke), and they STILL want more money? what's their problem? are they greedy?

and what exactly is the point of buying an album if you only like one track on there? surely you would find it easier downloading a song from AGS or whatever, listen to it a few times then delete it if you don't like it? (i'm talking from a perspective here as though the song you like never came out as a single).

what about those LEGAL mp3's? the ones which mosy on through the internet, getting ignored because of all the hype form the ILLEGAL ones. some people do forget that there is a fair proportion of mp3's otu there in webland which are perfectly legal, or the artist promotes it, saying yes to the mp3 conflict.

hell, i even heard that a band's CD sales went UP after seeing their mp3's all over the net. now that's something to think about. people automatically assume that mp3's lower the sales of other music formats. it doesn't. it raises the awareness of the artist in question, and so therefore a person will buy a CD in more confidence than if he had not heard any of the CD.

it's like saying something like this:

how can you ban mp3's? it's a series of 1's and 0's which just happen to look like a song.

you can't copyright a file format. it's like claiming you own jupiter.
it's no-ones for the taking.