Should the races in GT4 be harder?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GT-Unit
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Should the races in GT4 harder than the hardest in GT3?

  • No, the races were so hard I couldn't finish the game, or gave up.

    Votes: 3 4.4%
  • Total voters
    68
Originally posted by neon_duke


Another alternative to HP limits, etc. would be to reserve extra rewards for those who do it the hard way:
  • Extra bonus money to people who win with a lower-powered car. Or maybe a sliding scale of payout, that is inverse to your power advantage over the field. Win the Clubman Cup in an F1 car, and get 100 credits. Win it in a stock Mini and get 2,000 credits.
  • Special models, versions, or colors that are only given to racers who win with less power than the AI.
  • A special "Sportmanship Bonus" of cash and/or special car for each level you complete with cars on par with the AI machines.
Ideas like this let people judge for themselves how much challenge they want, and if the extra rewards are worth it.
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Nice ideas. I agree with you in that the game should be kept non-linear and let people decide whatever they want to do. The beautiful thing about Gran Turismo is that you can make it as difficult as you want it to be. There are those out there who find the most enjoyment out of smoking in the field in a far superior car while others prefer winning a hard-fought race by inches. Everyone wins.
 
I think that some of the races were difficult like the F1 challenge but some of them were also very easy. I think that HP limits are a must but that should be it, perhaps a slightly improved AI but not so that only the very best can beat them. I found the S license very difficult, spending 5 hours non stop on the final test to come out with a bronze.

I think that Polyphony need to find some kind of compromise between accesiblity for new players, and at least a little challenge for experts.
 
Well...

I think we have those different levels of accessibility. I'm not that greatest of racers and I got all the licenses in a day with barely a troublesome test. Getting the S license should be hard, if not harder than it is atm, because it's a sign you've mastered the correct aspects of driving in the game: you know your lines, you know how to handle real racing cars, you're up there in terms of skill.

We have things like the license system so new players are eased into this, and I think the learning curve is beautifully gradual, combined with demos of how to take things and lines on the circuit helping them to brake, accelerate, turn, etc. It can't get much more welcoming than that. We have an Arcade mode where you can just grab a good car and go racing. That's great for most people.

But at the higher end of the spectrum, we have the specialists who want getting 100% in Simulation mode to be a challenge, something even the best have to rise too. Online racing will probably alleviate a lot of the responsibility for single player Simulation mode to shoulder this burden, but still. The Beginner events are fairly open and easy to win, even for novice players. I think having some easy enduros to get them used to the idea is good too. But I want the final enduros and the Professional league to hurt me, to challenge me and make me think "Jesus, what do I have to do to win?" at times. That's what great games are about, they challenge everyone. Great games take novices and gradually build them up until they have a desire to compete at the very top.

Better AI is the only way forward. Whatever restrictions we place upon ourselves or the game places upon us, most of the time we're better drivers than the AI, and at the end of the day that's what makes all the difference.
 
neon_duke
Another alternative to HP limits, etc. would be to reserve extra rewards for those who do it the hard way:
  • Extra bonus money to people who win with a lower-powered car. Or maybe a sliding scale of payout, that is inverse to your power advantage over the field. Win the Clubman Cup in an F1 car, and get 100 credits. Win it in a stock Mini and get 2,000 credits.
  • Special models, versions, or colors that are only given to racers who win with less power than the AI.
  • A special "Sportmanship Bonus" of cash and/or special car for each level you complete with cars on par with the AI machines.
Ideas like this let people judge for themselves how much challenge they want, and if the extra rewards are worth it.
Click to expand...

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Really good ideas there. Although I suggest that at 100% the limits stop.
 
the thing that really made the game a piece of cake was the lack of limitations as to what cars you could enter in a race. There's a reason they have classes in racing and for a start GT needs to be a little more strict in terms of what you can enter into series races especially. Of course if you put an F1 car against a street car you'll crush it... doesn't matter how much horsepower you have in your mustang... you ain't beatin the crappiest F1 chassis.

I found that it was a little better if you ran an equivalent car as the opposition, but the AI then still reared it's ugly head and for a skilled driver, it's still very easy to win 100% of the time.

I think that at least if GT4 starts to limit car entries, it will help raise the bar... also, let the comp have modded cars entered too... in the brand races, you'd meet another D2 AMG Merc, but yours would have double the power 'cause you upgraded... would be better comp if that other one also matched your stats.
 
there was some other ideas here that i liked, which was the upgrading AI in relation to license status... it was mentioned that it should be based on gold/silver/bronze totals, but i think, it should ALSO be based on the level itself. Someone who is racing beginner leagues but has a Super license should get stiffer competition than someone who passes IB for example... having said that it'd only be really effective if they implemented it and didn't tell anyone, cause a lot of punters would probably clear their B license all bronze that race all the series they could getting easy wins, then keep moving up the chain.

Another way may be impossible technically, but might be the best, is to actually improve the AI based on the players fastest laps... it would work like this... every car in the game would also have a fastest lap time set by an expert GT player (Kaz or someone at PD), then the gamer's times as he raced would be compared (obviously the same car would have to be used). There then could be a AI setting scale based on time comparison. You could also implement this system against license tests as well for more data and impact on the AI slider.
 
neon_duke
While I like the idea of making the game harder, in general I think that leaving it open to the pride and self-motivation of each player is the best way to go.
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totally agree. GT2 was a mess with the hp limits, esp when theyd throw in the tigra ice race car

ive been running stock cars and/or underpowered cars in the amateur leagues for some kicks and to hold me down til GT4

for some fun races try these in amateur:
stock nismo 400R in gt badge cup
stock nsx r in type r series
stock r32 gtr in 80s cup, seattle
stock spoon CTR in japanese championship, monacco
 
I've completed very few of the endurance races - for two reasons: Firstly, they are boring - you either win by a mile or have no chance of winning at all. Secondly, there is little reward for wasting 2 hours of your life. if you had the oppotunity to save a endurance race midway through a race (during a pit-stop only) then you wouldn't have to sit in front of your tv for hours just to win a crappy Yaris! Also during a pit-stop if you had the chance to change the settings or your tyre compounds it would make the game more realistic and offer some light relief during those long enduros. As for that much needed 'carrot-on-stick' encouragement to start these long, long races perhaps the prize cars offered should be unique to that race, ie only available for winning that particular race, not any other and not just available to buy at a dealer. I know GT3 went someway towards this, but i still have no desire to partisipate in 80% of the enduros.

As for overall difficulty, they should bring back the custom races from GT2 (perhaps fully customisable like in TOCA race driver) and have a normal difficulty level and a advanced level, perhaps only available after completing 80 or 90% of the game at normal level?
 
I think that a bonus for finishing the game 100% or something, that the hp etc restrictions in races shoud be eased off a bit.

Mainly because i want to see what a R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R can do compared to slower cars such as the Mazda MX-5, Toyota Sprinter Trueno Levin etc.

Or what the Saleen S7 can do when racing against GT350 JGTC's or sports cars such as the Honda NSX-R, Mazda RX-7 Type RZ etc...

That's why i liked GT2 a lot and the same reason i like Prologue and GTC. GT3 has the 'cheating AI' so you don't really know what the car is capable of.
 
The thing that kept me playing GT2 way after i'd won all the races and won all the cars i wanted - was tuning lower powered stock cars, race modifing them and then racing and beating all the LM prototypes and GT racers. Part of the fun was taking a seemingly innocent looking 'shopping' car, chucking stacks of cash at it, and then blowing all the 'factiry' racers away. this must have kept me playing GT2 for at least a year after i would have normally lost interest in it. In fact i only stopped playing it when GT3 arrived.
 
Ditto, I did similar stuff, and never bothered in GT3. I upgraded my favoured cars to their limits and enjoyed that, but it wasn't quite the same.
 
...the stock cars, even with full modifications still handle like cr*p, you really need the race mods to properly compete with the full race-spec cars.

(or maybe its just psycological?)
 
How about split the game into different types of competition, you have free events which are unrestricted so if you want you can enter a Saleen S7 into a race against JGTC style cars. Then you could have the special events, these would have numerouse restrioctions set to keep the pack level and competitive. Then they could return the GT league with national cups, international cups and the GT world cup at the end. These would all be in addition to the off road, endurance and drift sections. This gives people the freedom to choose whatver they want and the restrictions needed to keep a players car competitive and fair, the best of both worlds.
 
i definitely think that some sort of multiple race styles, regulations, and restrictions need to be implemented in Sim mode. It will allow for people who get thrills from lapping Kei cars in the Sunday Cup with their Penzoil Nismo GTRs and give lasting excitement and competition to skilled racers who crave the tight finish, or having to make that key pass in the last corner to reach victory lane.

An add on that might save some frustration is fi they include a list of eligible races in the car selection menu for each vehicle... so before you jump into your Ford GT you can get a snapshot of where you can enter the thing so you're not wasting your time.
 
Grand Touring is made up of dozens of different competitive levels, with different rules, specifications, entrance levels, etc. It's only logical to reflect that in GT.
 

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