Should we be able to test drive cars before purchase? (give feedback)

[twitcher]

You're right. And also right, I'm not particularly bothered by it. Sure I'd like the cars a little cheaper but I'll get to them eventually so it's whatever.

So based on some projections you can make off of your standard GT routine, you can assume that you’ll make enough credits to drive those cars eventually.

What about the person who can make the same projections, but know they won’t ever make enough credits to drive those cars? Are they just 🤬 out of luck? Better chose a new favourite car? Do they get some money back from PD?

Before you counter with, “every game has content that not all players see”, keep in mind this is not a skill or progression thing we’re talking about here, we’re talking about mind numbingly exploiting one of the easiest “races” in the game to earn enough credits.


Here’s something to chew on, and this is just for Dino, but anyone else who wants to join in with the position that they support credit grinding on any level in GT games.....

Would these same people be supportive of having certain cars in GT locked behind a skill wall? Let’s say the new Shelby Daytona was available only to people who had DR-A and SR-S, would you folks be down with that idea? Or how about the Merc W08 only being available to people who place in the Top 10 in weekly time trials - after all, in real life, only the best drivers in the world ever get to experience a Merc F1 car, why should someone with no skill be given a shot at driving masterpiece?? Think about it, how much cleaner would online cruise lobbies be if the F1 cars and even all the VGT cars were only available to the most skilled players in the game, wouldn’t it be wonderful

My gut tells me that people wouldn’t support the idea of the W08 being available only to a select few people, but for some reason, they seperate skill and time. People with no skill but all the time in the world, they should have access to everything. People with lots of skill but limited play time, they should have aspects of the game locked behind grind walls.

It's hard to say, we would need statistics. Anything else is just assuming.

. It’s ok to make reasonable assumptions in a convo. It’s actually become a real problem here at gtp, people can’t have a convo without someone demanding stats or a link for everything. I can make the statement, “I don’t like pain, and I don’t think the majority of other people do as well,” and that’s a perfectly reasonable assumption to make. I can make the statement, “I don’t like grinding for credits, and I don’t think a majority of other players do as well,” and again, that’s a completely reasonable assumption that doesn’t need statistic to back it up in order to further the conversation. The hint that a majority of people don’t like grinding for credits is in the name, grinding, which (like you point out with fanboy below) always has negative connotations with it. If it wasn’t a grind, people wouldn’t call it grinding.

Third time you're grouping me into something I never stated to be for or against until this post. And yes, throughout the entirety of the word "fanboy"'s existence it has been an insult.

If I mislabeled you a fanboy, my appologies, but you were riding with two people who were definitely being fanboys. So again, my bad if you don’t want to be grouped in with the other two.

Regardless though, being fully aware of the negative connotations attached to the term, is it really an insult? The way I’ve always understood “fanboy” is someone who can’t tolerate another person being critical of a particular game. That’s not an insult, it’s an observation. The negative connotations come from the person who is being called a fanboy, again, on the internet, conflict perceived by the receiver.

Anyways, that’s all for my thoughts on the term fanboy, I’ll leave it at that. Sorry again for calling you one, if you indeed aren’t one

 

[UnkaD]

keep in mind this is not a skill or progression thing we’re talking about here, we’re talking about mind numbingly exploiting one of the easiest “races” in the game to earn enough credits.

You're acting like everyone who picks up the game immediately jumps online to see the most effective grind for credits and then just proceeds to do only that instead of actually playing the game. There are plenty of cars and plenty of tracks to choose from and a custom race mode in arcade if we want to avoid chasing the rabbit. I've never done the same race repetitively to the point that it's painful and despite not living in the game I made credits just fine. No need to buy too many cars when they are given to you every time you play, so the credits naturally pile up. I only had to purchase 4 or 5 cars that I really wanted, one of them being 20mil.

Correction- After checking my stats page I noted I've purchased 32 cars. Most of those must have been inconsequentially cheap if I don't remember. A few Gr.3 cars and a couple TS050's for team liveries off the top of my head. Everything else is a blur.

 

[twitcher]

You're acting like everyone who picks up the game immediately jumps online to see the most effective grind for credits and then just proceeds to do only that instead of actually playing the game. There are plenty of cars and plenty of tracks to choose from and a custom race mode in arcade if we want to avoid chasing the rabbit. I've never done the same race repetitively to the point that it's painful and despite not living in the game I made credits just fine. No need to buy too many cars when they are given to you every time you play, so the credits naturally pile up. I only had to purchase 4 or 5 cars that I really wanted, one of them being 20mil.

Correction- After checking my stats page I noted I've purchased 32 cars. Most of those must have been inconsequentially cheap if I don't remember. A few Gr.3 cars and a couple TS050's for team liveries off the top of my head. Everything else is a blur.

I’m fully aware that it’s possible to get the credits if you do certain things in the game. I realize that if you just play the game enough, you get credits eventually. I think you’re failing to account that you probably play more than the average person. Furthermore, people who’s main objective in the game is to be active in online lobbies that don’t do racing, they have to grind credits to get the cars they would like to use. Relying on the daily gift is also not a valid arguement...if someone plays once per week, you think they’re going to end up with access to the cars they’d like?

Again though, you’re missing the point that having these cars behind a grind wall doesn’t help the game at all. It hurts the game overall, and only pads the egos of people who sink massive hours into the game.

I asked this following of someone else, haven’t got a reply yet:

Since you support certain cars being behind a grind wall, would you support certain cars being locked behind a skill wall? For example, all VGT and Gr1 cars are only available to those of A/S skill/safety level. These players have put in the work (real work), and they deserve a trophy to show off their hard work. The cars are in the game, they’re available to anyone who can gain access, all it takes is some effort and you can have them. Would you support this?

How about the W08 being available only to players who crack the Top 10 in weekly time trials? Again, if you want to drive the car, just put in the work to unlock it, it’s pretty simple.


How about locking certain cars behind a paywall. I grind hard in real life all day, so why not have a trophy for me in the game to show how hard I work. What’s rediculous here is that people will grind for hours on end in a game, when then could pick up 15 minutes of overtime and buy the thing with their visa....but they’ll grind it out in the game “based on principle” and then claim that cars which were placed in the game for every consumer of the game to enjoy are some sort of “trophy” to show “how hard they’ve worked in the game”.

If people want a trophy for credit grinding, have PD put in a tripple platinum trophy for earning 8 bajillion credits, ya’ll can go to town working on that one....just don’t put the some of the greatest race cars in the world behind a worthless grind wall. Like I said, if cars need to go behind walls, let’s discuss skill walls and pay walls, those I can work with (although I’m guessing a vocal group of people would be extremely against having their favourite car locked behind a skill wall).

 

[Street Racer 77]

[...]
I’d also be ok with some of the PD fantasy cars, eg the Amusing S2000, [...]

FYI, the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo does exist. It was build for Time-Attack events in Japan.

 

[twitcher]

FYI, the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo does exist. It was build for Time-Attack events in Japan.

Pretty sure the car was a GT fantasy creation before it was a real thing. And that car in your video....that’s some “Time Attack” car with that fancy red leather interior Pretty damn amusing if you ask me

 

[TonyJZX]

In GT6 when I bought the GT40 MkIV I was disappointed that the car only had a 4 spd box and wasnt that competitive.

I was faster in the XJ13 and 330p4. So in that light I doubt I would pay $20 mil. for it this time round knowing that it probably only has 4 gears.

 

[Kano Manel]

Another thread full of positivism and happy people

Yes, it should be possible to test the cars before purchasing them (just to reduce the number of moaners in forums)

 

[Famine]

And “fanboy” is an insult now?

Not so much "now" as "always has been".

how about instead of fanboy, I label the three of you

Or how about you don't label anyone as anything, and discuss the subject rather than the personal characteristics of the people you're discussing it with?

Oh, wait, I phrased that as a question.

Such rules are often met with confusion and contempt by some new users. However, GTPlanet is not just another disposable “video game forum” – it is a community and a home for thousands of like-minded people which has thrived for more than a decade. These rules have always been in place, and remind everyone to put a little more thought into what they’re contributing to the community. In turn, this creates a more pleasant and attractive place for everyone.

 

[Kano Manel]

In GT6 when I bought the GT40 MkIV I was disappointed that the car only had a 4 spd box and wasnt that competitive.

I was faster in the XJ13 and 330p4. So in that light I doubt I would pay $20 mil. for it this time round knowing that it probably only has 4 gears.

My Peugeot 407 had 4 gears too, and drove me all the way to Scotland from London in one go, no problem (it broke down in the way back but that is not the point). 4 gears can be fun

 

[baldgye]

I’m not everyone, and neither are you. I don’t like grinding, you seem to not mind it. Where do you think the other millions of people who bought the game lye? Do you think a majority (more than 50%) of the player base actually enjoys grinding? You need actual statistics to figure it out?

Here’s a hint, it’s called GRINDING for a reason, because it’s grinding, not actually enjoying the game. If it wasn’t a grind (which implies a negative experience), people wouldn’t call it grinding.

Well, 77% of players who bought GT Sport have yet to play a single Sport mode race. And GT has sold 80 million units since the original came out. So, that would suggest that people, do actually quite like the grind.

 

[twitcher]

Not so much "now" as "always has been".

Or how about you don't label anyone as anything, and discuss the subject rather than the personal characteristics of the people you're discussing it with?

Oh, wait, I phrased that as a question.

Did you follow the entire exchange? Where I was accused of harassment? Or are baseless aqusatuons of harassment part of the pleasant and attractive community we’re building here? What about having 3 people dog pile me, saying I’m “losing my mind”....that’s acceptable in your community? Nothing to say about that, only condemning my one comment of “fanboy” that wasn’t exactly improperly used. It’s whatever, I just find it interesting you’d single out my one comment as the thing you need to get involved over....especially given some of the exchanges you and I have had in the past.

Anyways, moving on

Well, 77% of players who bought GT Sport have yet to play a single Sport mode race. And GT has sold 80 million units since the original came out. So, that would suggest that people, do actually quite like the grind.

What about those statistics indicate that people actually enjoy grinding....talk about interpreting a set of data in whatever way you want

Just because 77% of players have yet to play sport mode, doesn’t mean that any or all of those people actually enjoy grinding. There’s more to the game that just sport mode and grinding

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well, 77% of players who bought GT Sport have yet to play a single Sport mode race. And GT has sold 80 million units since the original came out. So, that would suggest that people, do actually quite like the grind.

This is what we call jumping to conclusions. Though that's selling it a little short. This is taking a long running start, downhill, with a pole vault, only to have some rocket boosters strapped to your back kick in midway through the jump.

Just because 3/4 of Sport players don't play the eponymous mode doesn't mean they're all content running the same oval race for a dozen hours to be able to afford one of the most expensive cars in the game. Not just content, but enjoy the experience, apparently.

All it means is that 3/4 of Sport players don't play the eponymous mode.

 

[Famine]

Did you follow the entire exchange?

Yes.

What about

Love a bit of "what about"ery. Oh, don't tell me, he started it, you were only defending yourself, why aren't we giving private warnings and infractions that you can't see to other people and only picking on you?

given some of the exchanges you and I have had in the past.

No idea who you are, apart from the guy putting derogatory labels on other people who don't agree with him. If this is part of your character, it wouldn't surprise me that we've had "exchanges" in the past.

Anyways, moving on.

Please do. Hopefully we won't have to have any further "exchanges".

 

[NevilleNobody]

I think having to grind credits to “purchase” cars is a waste of time. All the cars should be available from the moment you start the game. If a person buys the game to take a Ferrari GTO for a spin around Brands Hatch, they shouldn’t have to waste who knows how many hours grinding 20mil credits, just because that’s the car they happen to be interested in, whilst the person who bought the game to drive a Honda S660 can do so right from the word go.

It’s an archaic system that’s only real function is to add false replay value.

100% this. have said it a million times myself, the whole credits thing is ridiculous, a throw back to old times, just make every car available for goodness sake, it's so asinine.

 

[Urinal2001]

Its only a 'grind' if you dont enjoy playing the game. If you arent enjoying it, then why are you still playing it, rather than playing one of these many games that do it better?

Personally, having all the cars unlocked from the start has ruined the longevity of some games for me, it felt like i had completed the game as soon as it was installed.

Im not denying that id appreciate the cost of a couple of cars being reduced, but that just comes down to balance and isnt a massive deal to me. I'll get there in the end, and so long as im enjoying driving and racing along the way, i doubt ill even notice the wait.

 

[baldgye]

This is what we call jumping to conclusions. Though that's selling it a little short. This is taking a long running start, downhill, with a pole vault, only to have some rocket boosters strapped to your back kick in midway through the jump.

Just because 3/4 of Sport players don't play the eponymous mode doesn't mean they're all content running the same oval race for a dozen hours to be able to afford one of the most expensive cars in the game. Not just content, but enjoy the experience, apparently.

All it means is that 3/4 of Sport players don't play the eponymous mode.

What about those statistics indicate that people actually enjoy grinding....talk about interpreting a set of data in whatever way you want

Just because 77% of players have yet to play sport mode, doesn’t mean that any or all of those people actually enjoy grinding. There’s more to the game that just sport mode and grinding

I was following on from the comments about GT always being about the grind, that it hasn't and wont change. If people wanted change, away from the grind (a GT staple), they would have moved away from it (via Sport) or have moved onto other games.
The fact despite GT Sport's confused messaging at launch and lack of single player content, it sold well. Seems fair to jump to the conclusion that people don't really want GT to change and aren't that interested when it makes large structural changes (Sport mode).

Personally, I don't see grind as a positive or a negative, it's just a game-play design choice. One that PD have used since the first game in order to structure the single player content.

 

[twitcher]

Its only a 'grind' if you dont enjoy playing the game. If you arent enjoying it, then why are you still playing it, rather than playing one of these many games that do it better?

Other games only do some things better. For example, online lobbies are best in GTS, but the weather system in pcars is better.

This game has many aspects to it, grinding credits is only one of them. Cruising in online lobbies, sport mode, livery editor....none of these involve earning large amounts of credits, yet they can occupy a majority of a players game time. I personally enjoy doing all three of those things, and more, I just don’t enjoy doing the same race over and over for a credit payout.

I do play other games, I play multiple titles, sometimes at the same time. Shocking right.

Since I can get most of these classic cars in other games, I’m not fussed about it in GTS. My point is that if these cars weren’t behind a grind wall, a larger portion of the game’s population would actually use them, which would be positive overall for the game as a whole. The arguement that “they’re trophies for people who have put ‘hard work’ into the game” is nonsense, in my opinion.

Personally, having all the cars unlocked from the start has ruined the longevity of some games for me, it felt like i had completed the game as soon as it was installed.

If that’s your approach to the game, that’s fine. But collecting cars is not why a lot of people play the game, many play it to drive cars, and to race them. So merely collecting them all is just the beginning for us. I’d love to have an online race with all the vintage cars, but due to so few people having them, it’s very unlikely to happen.

I was following on from the comments about GT always being about the grind, that it hasn't and wont change. If people wanted change, away from the grind (a GT staple), they would have moved away from it (via Sport) or have moved onto other games.
The fact despite GT Sport's confused messaging at launch and lack of single player content, it sold well. Seems fair to jump to the conclusion that people don't really want GT to change and aren't that interested when it makes large structural changes (Sport mode).

Personally, I don't see grind as a positive or a negative, it's just a game-play design choice. One that PD have used since the first game in order to structure the single player content.

To me, “it’s always been this way” is not a very good reason to not at least challenge the status quo. Again, the game has many aspects to it, grinding is just one of them. Myself, I really like certain aspects, really dislike the grinding. My likes outweigh my dislikes, so I play the game - but that doesn’t mean that enjoy the grinding. I’ve just learned to block out the aspects of the game that require grinding - which is a shame for me yes, but also for the online community as a whole, since these cars get such little use.

Edit: forgot to add...the structure of the game has changed over the years, the addition of mileage credits and exchange is evidence of that. Removing the grind wall would just be another change to the structure, one of many changes that have happened across the multiple titles.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I was following on from the comments about GT always being about the grind, that it hasn't and wont change.

Well there's the issue: you're basing your own stack of assumptions on a false premise.

GT hasn't always been about the grind, at least not nearly in the same way as Sport. In GT1, the most expensive cars a player could purchase were 500,000Cr. That was just over an hour's work. Barely any cars cost over 100,000 credits. There were rare prize cars locked behind specific events — the longest of which was about 90 minutes (though that one was simply a different colour of a purchasable race car).

There were the license test exclusive prizes, but that's not a grind, that's a skill-based barrier.

If people wanted change, away from the grind (a GT staple), they would have moved away from it (via Sport) or have moved onto other games.

That's a false dilemma. Someone who doesn't like the grind doesn't just have those two options. Sport Mode isn't a solution to the grind anyway; the tiny payouts make it worse. And the second option implies it's one game or the other.

I think the grind is ridiculous. I still play the game. I just don't bother with the grind, so unless I win any of the expensive cars, I'll never drive them.

The fact despite GT Sport's confused messaging at launch and lack of single player content, it sold well. Seems fair to jump to the conclusion that people don't really want GT to change and aren't that interested when it makes large structural changes (Sport mode).

It sold well, though we don't know how well. Estimates put it at roughly GT6 levels — the lowest in the mainline console franchise. There was quite a lot of teeth gnashing at launch about the drastic tone change for the game too. That's a whole other kettle of fish that I think we'll both agree isn't worth dragging this thread further off-topic about, though...

The fact Sport is selling roughly on the level of GT6, or half of what GT5 shifted, doesn't = people like the grind. That's a huge, huge logic jump simply because it suits your argument. You're painting multiple millions of people with the same broad brush.

Personally, I don't see grind as a positive or a negative, it's just a game-play design choice. One that PD have used since the first game in order to structure the single player content.

It's entirely possible, however, to structure a single player campaign in a way that doesn't require players to run the same race over and over again for dozens of hours to be able to afford a single car. See: a bunch of other current console racing games that don't do that.

 

[baldgye]

GT hasn't always been about the grind, at least not nearly in the same way as Sport. In GT1, the most expensive cars a player could purchase were 500,000Cr. That was just over an hour's work. Barely any cars cost over 100,000 credits. There were rare prize cars locked behind specific events — the longest of which was about 90 minutes (though that one was simply a different colour of a purchasable race car).

To my mind, it has. The grind, has just moved about a bit. In GT1 (to my memory) you needed lots of cars to enter lots of events and then money to tune them up. So instead of needing the money upfront, it was spread around. It might not have been as extreme as it is now, but it was present.

The fact Sport is selling roughly on the level of GT6, or half of what GT5 shifted, doesn't = people like the grind. That's a huge, huge logic jump simply because it suits your argument. You're painting multiple millions of people with the same broad brush.

The broad brush that the people who keep playing and buying GT games, like GT games and the way they are designed. PD have actively worked to patch GT Sport into the a bastardised GT7 to appease criticism.

It's entirely possible

I know.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

To my mind, it has. The grind, has just moved about a bit. In GT1 (to my memory) you needed lots of cars to enter lots of events and then money to tune them up. So instead of needing the money upfront, it was spread around. It might not have been as extreme as it is now, but it was present.

Facts trump feelings.

You could complete every race in GT1 with a garage of less than five cars:

• Integra Type R (FF Challenge, Lightweight Sports Battle Stage)
• Dodge Viper GTS (Normal Car World Speed Contest, FR Challenge)
• Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec R33 (Megaspeed Cup, Hard-Tuned Car Speed Contest, 4WD Challenge)

That leaves the country-based races, which you could use the Skyline for two of. It wouldn't be a bad choice for the production car-based SSR11 endurance, either. Buy a fairly powerful race mod'd car and you're good to go for everything else in Special Events bar the US-UK series. Maybe race mod the Viper, or just buy another one to do it to if you want to keep a stock one. There's no car restrictions on GT League events.

Whoops, I forgot having to buy a first car. Make it a used Civic Si and you could replace the Type R...

What you're describing is progression, not a grind. You could move from one series to another, building up your cars and buying new ones fairly easily. There wasn't a car that required you to run the best-paying event for a dozen hours just to afford it.

The eight-figure car costs in GT Sport are the issue. Car prices have ballooned while the race payouts, although bigger, haven't grown at the same level. The bizarre part is that the most expensive cars in the game are also some of the most useless in terms of the game's stated goals. They're relegated to digital trophy status for those that have "put in the work", or as carrots in the daily lottery to ensure players are regularly engaged.

In a way, it makes sense: if the most expensive cars in the game were, say, the Gr.3 meta cars, that'd be a problem. But as is, I can't think of a single negative blow to the game if all of the cars costing over five million were suddenly dropped to that amount, or even less.

The broad brush that the people who keep playing and buying GT games, like GT games and the way they are designed. PD have actively worked to patch GT Sport into the a bastardised GT7 to appease criticism.

That's the thing, though; in the absolute best-case scenario for your assumption, half the people that bought GT5 (ie. the grindiest grind-fest in the series up until that point in time, and still that now that the servers are dead) have bought GT Sport. But you don't know how many of Sport's sales are from people that have bought previous iterations.

 

[baldgye]

Facts trump feelings

Sorry, I'll stop getting so emotional.

 

[Cerebral303]

Just a thought...The poll results largely in favour of yes could mean several things:

-People have regretted buying expensive cars (I haven't bought a Vulcan yet, last Aston on my list and now wary)
-A lot of people just want a go, and don't care about owning cars but having fun in them
-A desire for a game that allows more access to cars without grinding, since Arcade mode now only lets you drive 5 slow cars.

 

[twitcher]

Just a thought...The poll results largely in favour of yes could mean several things:

-People have regretted buying expensive cars (I haven't bought a Vulcan yet, last Aston on my list and now wary)
-A lot of people just want a go, and don't care about owning cars but having fun in them
-A desire for a game that allows more access to cars without grinding, since Arcade mode now only lets you drive 5 slow cars.

The pole speaks the truth not that I’d expect it to say otherwise.


How about this for an idea....

All the cars in the game are available, no credits, to any player who buys the game. However, if you want to customize the car, ie paint it, change the wheels, upgrade power, etc, then players have to purchase the car with credits.

That way people who want to take these vintage racecars for a spin, but don’t have time to sink into the grind (9 years for some of us), yet at the same time retain a level of exclusiveness to these expensive cars. If you see someone in a Daytona with a custom paint job, you know it’s a trophy to show they managed to grind 15 mil credits.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I don't have time to get good enough to get sport mode wins, so I think I should be allowed to select how many I want added to my tally when I log in.

That's how retarded this conversation is.

 

[KepleroGT]

I think having to grind credits to “purchase” cars is a waste of time. All the cars should be available from the moment you start the game. If a person buys the game to take a Ferrari GTO for a spin around Brands Hatch, they shouldn’t have to waste who knows how many hours grinding 20mil credits, just because that’s the car they happen to be interested in, whilst the person who bought the game to drive a Honda S660 can do so right from the word go.

It’s an archaic system that’s only real function is to add false replay value.

Mileage points to upgrade performance, buy wheels, poses, etc, that’s cool - but putting a select number of cars behind a grind wall is stupid.

I’d also be ok with some of the PD fantasy cars, eg the Amusing S2000, being locked behind some type of achievement or accomplishment, like all gold on licenses or challenges, something like that.

Honestly though, I’m at the point where I think I will purposely not buy or drive the stupid expensive cars in GT, just as a protest in case someone is actually watching the numbers. If I want to drive a Mark IV GT40, I’ll do it right now in PCARS2, no grinding, and be able to drive it on actual era appropriate circuits.

PD needs to get with the times and update the basic game structure.

I think that in Arcade all the cars should be available. But not for the online.

 

[KepleroGT]

Well, 77% of players who bought GT Sport have yet to play a single Sport mode race. And GT has sold 80 million units since the original came out. So, that would suggest that people, do actually quite like the grind.

uhm, what?
No. Sorry but that's not how logic works. I don't like grinding. No one likes doing the same races for days and days just to buy a car.
I like Gran Turismo but I don't like grinding Blue Moon for 3 hours to have 6 million credits. And with 3 20 million cars in the game and 1 15 million car , 6 million isn't a lot.
Maybe you should reconsider if you think grinding for days is good.

 

[baldgye]

Maybe you should reconsider if you think grinding for days is good.

Sorry but that’s not how logic works.

But you could just read the thread and see that this discussion has already taken place

 

[KepleroGT]

But you could just read the thread and see that this discussion has already taken place

So I can't say my opinion because "the discussion has already taken place" lol

 

[baldgye]

So I can't say my opinion because "the discussion has already taken place" lol

I can’t prevent you from posting, nor did I try too.
But you’re post seemed to want me to reply in a similar manner to the convo I’d already had just above your post.

 

[Epic B]

Me neither. I keep getting trolled. I was about toget the xj13 from a daily today, I got trolled with an atenza gr4....

I've gotten trolled with both the P4 and the XJ13 multiple times. I at least got a P4 as my birthday car. And now I'm saving up to buy the Miura.