Simulation vs normal steering

hennessey86

hennessey86

1,471
hennessey_86 and GTP_evox
hennessey861
After a discussion with a gamer I will not mention I wanted to know every ones opinion on this. In my humble opinion since the patch simulation steering has become unrealistic. It requires a little to much input, it feels like a drift sim mode. I race using 900 degrees of rotation and I could drive it but you have to be so careful with the throttle, at times it feels like you ave a pendulam attatched to the rear of the veichle and go over a curb in a rear wheel drive car and your sideways. Not realistic. Hows everyone finding it and has anyone switched to normal since the patch.
 
You know drifting and normal driving are both regulated by the same laws of physics in real life? How could there be a 'drift' mode? Especially when T10 themselves said that they eliminated an error that was remapping the wheel to 270 during counter steer. Simulation steering is the most realistic, direct steering you can have in Forza, period.

Watch these drift videos. Notice how much of the steering range is used. The steering wheel movements are exactly the same as they are in Forza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDNfLPXRw8U

Here's another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKQK92fKa-E

It's fine if you think it's too hard and want to put the assist back on, but to call it unrealistic is simply wrong.

Here's another video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4HPwTGRhPk

Watch this one from :10 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9bkXoc86AY&feature=related

Video of a guy losing control and saving it (skip to :50). Uses the whole 900 degrees, just like in Forza. No 'drift' mode here. And it's not even a RWD car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbN3drqcBAw&feature=related
 
Post patch, I've also swiched to normal steering. I have found the sim setting is great fun up to C class, any higher is just too twitchy for my tastes.
I don't race IRL so can't say which setting is the most 'realistic',but the normal mode feels closer, to something like iracing than sim, imho.
 
I personally think it's a lot more realistic now, it feels like a real car (like mine at least anyway) before it was far too easy to catch a slide and it was rare that the car would lose traction when accelerating mid way through the corner. Now it feels like the car is on the edge and slides are much more difficult to catch but ultimately rewarding when you do catch them. The only downside is when racing them online but that's for the other thread.
 
Currently I'm racing Forza 4 w/a pad and mostly sim steering. I've hit a wall and either have to go to normal steering at higher classes or just wait until I get my Fanatec setup since I race faster cars better with a wheel. Pre patch I was able to catch very aggressive slides and now post patch I just spin out. It's much harder now and I think more realistic.
 
buttsneeze
You know drifting and normal driving are both regulated by the same laws of physics in real life? How could there be a 'drift' mode? Especially when T10 themselves said that they eliminated an error that was remapping the wheel to 270 during counter steer. Simulation steering is the most realistic, direct steering you can have in Forza, period.

Watch these drift videos. Notice how much of the steering range is used. The steering wheel movements are exactly the same as they are in Forza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDNfLPXRw8U

Here's another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKQK92fKa-E

It's fine if you think it's too hard and want to put the assist back on, but to call it unrealistic is simply wrong.

Here's another video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4HPwTGRhPk

Watch this one from :10 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9bkXoc86AY&feature=related

Video of a guy losing control and saving it (skip to :50). Uses the whole 900 degrees, just like in Forza. No 'drift' mode here. And it's not even a RWD car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbN3drqcBAw&feature=related
Click to expand...

you know what I can admit when I am wrong, looking at that last video made me think you are right. Maybe I didn't give simulation enough time :)
 
I thought the patch must have affected pad users too as I was all over the shop in a 458 race where I've not normally noticed much difficulty in keeping the car where I wanted it to go.
 
The tire model is way better than anything from Forza or GT in the past, but I do feel it's lacking a little "bite." Not by much, but at times it feels like the rear tires on a RWD shift from side to side linearly and progressively, instead of gripping and then letting go. Similar to what hennessey86 said about hitting a curb.

You won't hear the clichéd "driving on ice" line from me about this game, though. It's not like that. :lol:
 
Wolfe
The tire model is way better than anything from Forza or GT in the past, but I do feel it's lacking a little "bite." Not by much, but at times it feels like the rear tires on a RWD shift from side to side linearly and progressively, instead of gripping and then letting go. Similar to what hennessey86 said about hitting a curb.
Click to expand...


Yeah, the cars don't snap quite as violently as they should. I think it has more to do with the suspension model/general mechanical physics than the tire model.
 
I use simulation, its much better than the normal in every way, unless you're trying to go fast that is...
 
Today was my first time playing with the CSR wheel and elite pedals (I've only played with the MS FF wheel thus far). I'm not an expert driver by any means but it was certainly different. My biggest qualm is that I feel like the wheel becomes too light when you begin lose grip on a corner. I realize it should be light but it shouldn't be totally weightless. Can you adjust that? I can't really comment on normal vs sim b/c I've only tried sim.

Off subject but I have a GT2 wheel that is being serviced by fanatec. I shipped it last month and emailed them today asking when I'll get it back. They said they never received it but they got a notice from USPS about a package. I sent them the tracking info. USPS attempted to deliver it Dec 15th and left a notice. I told fanatec if they can't recover the wheel they should assume responsibility and reimburse me for the loss.

Despite the issues with fanatec this CSR wheel / pedal set is the best sim setup I've ever tried. Fanatec is similar to german automotive manufacturers in some ways - they make some of the best cars you can buy but they are the least reliable.
 
Ok I know this thread is quite old but I had to join in on this discussion!!

So, after getting my CSR Elite & setting up my cockpit, me & my mates played Forza 4 with no assists & sim steering on! It fustrated everyone & it was just to hard. I decided to see what other people were saying about it and to my surprise everyone said normal steering was the way to go with wheels because the wheel was already simulated. I thought fair enough & used normal steering for at least a month!

It was until I played iRacing on PC that I realised normal steering on forza 4 was to easy & forgiving. iRacing is as close as you'll get to the real thing & I wanted the same experience in forza!

So I went back to forza 4, switched to simulation & just worked with it! Yer it's hard & completely unforgiving but if you can't handle it then it's not the game or the wheel - it's entirely you! It all comes down to the driver & iRacing made me realise that which in turn made me a better driver in Forza 4 with sim steering on (racing & drifting). Every car I get into takes time & patience, trial & error to perfect like a real car should!

In conclusion: the game is as simulated as it can be & it's upto you - the driver, to take complete control! Remember, it might just be a game but if you picture it as real life & treat the car like a real object then you can succeed! ;-)
 
For a pad user, simulation steering is definitely a must; it ups the realism and all cars from the lower classes till the racing ones are still manageable. Must be that the whole experience changes as a wheel user if you read the comments here.
 
I am not a wheel user, but someday I might convince my wife to let me spend the money on one...

With that in mind, I have a question for you all: Do your force-feedback wheels and Forza 4 effectively simulate what I'll call "change in neutral point" that causes the wheel to spin rapidly through the hands of the driver in the second video (thanks for the great links, buttsneeze!!!) as the car swings from a left drift to a right drift?

I'm sure you understand what's going on there (slip angle, caster, etc.). I'm just curious to hear if the game and your wheels simulate that.

I'm also interested to know if Forza effectively models the different feedback (feel) of different power steering systems. In my old mustang, it has a power steering system like a tractor, so the steering wheel is always light, even with a large steering input in. It has no steering feel at all. Newer rack and pinion and recirculating ball power steering systems (at least this is how I understand) give most steering boost at only very low speeds, and reduce their assistance at higher speeds, resulting in a tighter-feeling response.

Let me know if any of the above doesn't make sense, and I'll re-phrase.
 
Just from my experience with the gaming wheels (Fanatec CSR) and real driving (Never have driven a car built for racing or raced a stock car on public streets/track, I'd say that a real cars power steering is much more forgiving than that of my wheel. I think the FFB is 'exaggerated' a bit to simulate the tarmac and pick up on the uneven road or bumps.

As for the wheel spinning rapidly in the drivers hands, not to that extreme but when I set my wheel for drifting I am throwing the wheel around quite violently, of course most of the wheels movement is provided by me. Not sure if the CSR Elite has a more accurate return compared to the almost non-existent CSR's?
 
D3FCTV
Ok I know this thread is quite old but I had to join in on this discussion!!

So, after getting my CSR Elite & setting up my cockpit, me & my mates played Forza 4 with no assists & sim steering on! It fustrated everyone & it was just to hard. I decided to see what other people were saying about it and to my surprise everyone said normal steering was the way to go with wheels because the wheel was already simulated. I thought fair enough & used normal steering for at least a month!

It was until I played iRacing on PC that I realised normal steering on forza 4 was to easy & forgiving. iRacing is as close as you'll get to the real thing & I wanted the same experience in forza!

So I went back to forza 4, switched to simulation & just worked with it! Yer it's hard & completely unforgiving but if you can't handle it then it's not the game or the wheel - it's entirely you! It all comes down to the driver & iRacing made me realise that which in turn made me a better driver in Forza 4 with sim steering on (racing & drifting). Every car I get into takes time & patience, trial & error to perfect like a real car should!

In conclusion: the game is as simulated as it can be & it's upto you - the driver, to take complete control! Remember, it might just be a game but if you picture it as real life & treat the car like a real object then you can succeed! ;-)
Click to expand...

I can totally relate to what you're saying here. Even a year after release I can't seem to get enough of it!

Sadly, some folks on this forum are actually bashing FM4's physics for not being spot on enough, right after I bashed Horizon for being a lame arcade fest!

Ah... the beauty of personal opinions!
 
VXR
I thought the patch must have affected pad users too as I was all over the shop in a 458 race where I've not normally noticed much difficulty in keeping the car where I wanted it to go.
Click to expand...

The patch doesn't affect controller users. It may, however, have resetted or changed your deadzone settings. Check those out.
 
YakieS1
I am not a wheel user, but someday I might convince my wife to let me spend the money on one...

With that in mind, I have a question for you all: Do your force-feedback wheels and Forza 4 effectively simulate what I'll call "change in neutral point" that causes the wheel to spin rapidly through the hands of the driver in the second video (thanks for the great links, buttsneeze!!!) as the car swings from a left drift to a right drift?

I'm sure you understand what's going on there (slip angle, caster, etc.). I'm just curious to hear if the game and your wheels simulate that.

I'm also interested to know if Forza effectively models the different feedback (feel) of different power steering systems. In my old mustang, it has a power steering system like a tractor, so the steering wheel is always light, even with a large steering input in. It has no steering feel at all. Newer rack and pinion and recirculating ball power steering systems (at least this is how I understand) give most steering boost at only very low speeds, and reduce their assistance at higher speeds, resulting in a tighter-feeling response.

Let me know if any of the above doesn't make sense, and I'll re-phrase.
Click to expand...

I know this is old as ----, but I noticed only one person responded to your inquiry about wheel spinning, so I registered to respond. My CSR (non-elite) will spin in a very similar fashion to the video. It´s quite impressive... I often let go of the wheel (whether that is an appropriate driving style of not!) and let it spin on it´s own, catching it when it´s ¨time.¨ Seems very realistic to me... A friend and I were on my two wheels making similar (often unsuccessful) corrections as seen in the Audi (last) video above.

I am pretty sure it does not change the feel of the wheel much between cars (i.e. power steering effect), but it certainly gives plenty of feedback to know what is going on and help you correct accordingly.

Cheers!
 

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