Sixaxis to G25 - 1 Year

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5: Prologue' started by Synwraith, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    Great update Maz...another enjoyable read as always :cheers: Glad I went back to re-read your post after you edited it ;) :lol:

    I'm REALLY looking forward to joining you guys on some of the PC sims (Rfactor, GTR Evo, Iracing) once I get a PC setup specifically for gaming (should be within a month or two). I will say that GT5P does get quite dull for me at times, and it just doesn't seem like it's nearly as challenging as it should be to extract the full potential out of a given car and track. You see so many people put in near perfect laps in GT5P, it really makes you scratch your head and think this can't be a realistic reflection of reality. I mean it seems like a dime a dozen can a run a cleaner lap than Michael Schumacher behind the wheel of some 600hp beast :lol: :scared: All I've ever been exposed to was console racing games up until recently...glad to have others who can give honest insight between the two :cheers:
     
  2. Synwraith

    Synwraith Staff Emeritus

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    :lol: Cheers for the advice mate, sounds like one of those things you discover after buying such equipment and don't give much thought to before.

    I'm no alien mate, and I don't think that kind of thing comes with hard work and practise to most people. I think some of those guys at the top just have more raw talent. That's why I'm aiming at D1 silver. Looking at your splits in recent WRS, it won't be long before you are officially a D1 driver. :tup:

    You're very right, to start GT5P up is to start comparing laptimes for me as well, and I'd love to get away from that a bit. The PC sims didn't help, I was immediately looking up laptimes online and pestering my teammates for their best laps. I guess the reason these games have held their appeal for me longer than any other game ever has is the competitive element. It's also the reason I haven't dived completely into GTR Evo, because I fear losing my ability and speed in GT5P that I killed myself to achieve.

    I can't honestly tell Carl! I can't make a back to back comparison because the feel of the FFB-mad GTR Evo is so completely different to GT5P. All I can see is that if I didn't bolt it down, GTR would be unplayable for me. I sometimes even find myself wishing there WAS lateral movement in the wheel for GTR EVo because I got SO used to driving that way in GT5P. However I will admit that GT5P driving has caused me to have many bad habits that are really vividly highlighted in PC sim racing.

    Well you are one of those aforementioned aliens and I think you're still at the age where you can switch between games at will with no noticeable loss of skill :lol: I can only hope any extended time on GTR Evo will make me a more rounded driver and better at all racing games, especially if GT5 has more realistic physics on professional mode.

    :cheers:

    You love my rig :D

    You're absolutely right, a decent lap completed on GTR Evo is incredibly satisfying, but then none of my laps on GTR Evo are ever perfect, it just doesn't seem like that kind of game. Which I guess makes it realistic. Having said that, I don't do many perfect laps on GT5P mate, so I guess it's a moot point for me :lol: I see what you mean though, there are so many variables to getting a good lap on the sim racers; locked brakes, bumps in the road, proper force feedback, tyre wear, fuel wear, and actual time limit to setting a good qualifying lap...you really have to make the best of that lap.

    All the best
    Maz
     
  3. skazz

    skazz

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    This would probably be an excellent moment to point you in the direction of a 1 month free trial for iRacing: http://www.radicalsportscars.com/racing/virtual-racing (assuming this one didn't get killed off when the other two free trials were stopped due to user abuse, not certain sorry)
    Think of it as a benchmark. The "de facto" gold standard for force feedback and track quality (given their laser scanning techniques) which the competition must step up to meet in the years to come.


    Personally, coming from a many year PC simming background I just wanted to say that GT5 Prologue still has plenty to offer even once you've immersed yourself in PC simming. The PC simming world is very focused on race cars of various types, whereas GT5 is where I go to enjoy stunning visuals of stunning road cars, and it does so without letting itself down. You just can't get that experience on the PC (well, except Shift, but that is a different story).
     
  4. steve30b

    steve30b

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    absolutely fantastic experience with the G-25 system (could never go back to the pad now) best bit of gaming kit i have ever bought..
     
  5. Synwraith

    Synwraith Staff Emeritus

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    :tup: :tup: :tup:

    Well Brandon, I'd say that was 'Job Done', eh?

    :D

    All the best
    Maz
     
  6. SpawnBlack

    SpawnBlack

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    Good Thread Synwraith,

    I know its not a G25 but I bought a Logitech Driving Force GT last week and after a week of using it on GT5P It's been a blast. I have beeen able to make an improvement on my driving style as you have said on Fuji at turn 1. I can get around that corner with ease now that I have more control with the throttle and steering than I did with the Analogue Sticks.

    I remember entering the Sixaxis Comp and was 8th or 9th for the first round but then I had connection problems with my ISP so I could not continue and missed the rest of the comp.

    Congrats on getting Silver Maz, and hope there's more like that to come with the wheel.
     
  7. Synwraith

    Synwraith Staff Emeritus

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    The DFGT is still more than enough to be fiercely competitive and comes recommended by some of the very best drivers at GTPlanet. I bought the G25 because it was the more recent wheel at the time and fell in love with the pedals. They are without a doubt a sincere pleasure to use.

    That's a shame as it turned into a really memorable competition for all involved. The mad thing is that practically everyone from that competition is now a wheel user. I was not even in the top 10 of Sixaxis users here on GTP so the G25 has transformed GT5P for me radically.

    Many thanks mate, from what I can see with my progress, Timeattack's progress and CarlPKY/cpp214's progress...no there doesn't really seem to be any let up in the improvements. I thought I'd plateaued at one stage and after that the improvements actually came faster than before. I was spending progressively less time in each subdivision as I got promoted.

    Have you thought about running the qualifier and joining the GTP registry? Doing the WRS as a GTP member has been pretty much 75% responsible for my improvements.

    All the best
    Maz
     
  8. Adam41

    Adam41

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    Hi Synwraith.

    Awesome thread and a very interesting read. Like you many months ago, I too believe my capabilities are limited with a sixaxis. I use the analogue sticks and I'm generally very good at using them but I've come to a conclusion that I want to feel like I'm driving the car rather than just using a pad. I plan on getting a nice HD TV and a G25 some time before christmas. Should I be looking forward to the the first few attempts with a G25 on prologue? It seemed very... adventurous the way you wrote it on day 1 :lol: All I can say is I hope I can achieve the transition from pad to G25 as well as you did; and become a better driver than I am now.

    Thanks for the read and hopefully I can compete with you in upcoming WRS events (in 6 months time :lol:) :tup:
     
  9. jedaye

    jedaye

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    I have been thinking of getting a wheel. But, the thing thats bugging me is the fact that I am 15 and don't have a drivers lisence and never driven in real life before. I am wondering whether it would be like learning to play GT all over again if I buy a wheel.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  10. Synwraith

    Synwraith Staff Emeritus

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    It is quite similar to learning to play again, but it is 100% worth it. You'll be faster, more consistent, more controlled and you will enjoy playing GT so much more. I can't stress that enough, it's the most worthwhile thing you could do as a Gran Turismo fan and player.

    And don't worry, I've never owned a car but I'm doing ok with the wheel ;)


    As I was just saying to Jedaye, I have little experience of driving and no experience of driving fast, plus I didn't use the analogue sticks. I was making do on the d-pad so it was probably a bigger transition for me than it will be for you.

    Don't forget, as troublesome and dramatic as the first week or so was with the G25, remember I said I had a massive smile on my face all the way throughout, and that will just get broader as the improvements come thick and fast. You also get to know the cars so much better, understand and manipulate their characteristics much better. I would never have appreciated cars like the 512BB, Art Morrisson, GTLM and now NSX were it not for the wheel.

    Adam, you will undoubtedly be a better and faster driver than I am on thr wheel. You qualified D1 bronze with the pad!! I qualified D2 bronze and made it to silver only, then it took something like 6 months to drag myself up to where you have already qualified. :tup:

    All the best
    Maz
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  11. phil_2001

    phil_2001

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    Logitech has made some of very high quality steering wheels. Fortunately my first experience with a wheel and GT was back in 2003 when I bought my red MOMO wheel. I felt like I opened a new dimension. Unfortunately I never tried a G25 wheel, but I am sure it is just as good or better as the red MOMO + 900 degrees to add to realism. Congrats!
     
  12. PASM

    PASM Moderator

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    You are D1 silver now, so you've reached your goal :)

    Nice thread to read. To comment on the G25 abilities to enhance your own skill level: when I upgraded from a DFP (which I started using when GT4P came out) to the G25 it helped me a lot. It gave me much more precision and consistency in my driving. I agree with you 100% that it is the best piece of gaming hardware I've bought so far. Although my old DFP is still functioning very good after 5+ years of intensive use, which is a stellar performance imo. I now use it with PC sims (mostly LFS S2)
     
  13. tyl0r_r

    tyl0r_r

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    I found this post interesting and helpful, so thanks!

    I've been in the same boat - playing since Gran Turismo 1 on the PSOne and always with a pad. Waiting for a DFGT in the mail now and while it is not the wheel that you are using I think the general experience of play is probably comparable.

    Actually, more than anything I think your post has made me really impatient for it to get here! ARRRGH!!! (lol :p).

    @ jedaye: Maybe, but think about it this way: if you put in a lot of hours playing with the wheel just think how much more comfortable you'll be when you actually do start driving.
     
  14. skazz

    skazz

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    I own both the DFGT and G25, tyl0r_r. Don't worry, the level of steering accuracy you can achieve with both wheels is effectively identical. Both of them have 900 degrees, both can be turned fast without fighting the motor, and the force feedback is powerful enough that it doesn't get in the way, it actively helps you to understand how the car is reacting.

    The DFGT offers those buttons on the wheel including the PS button, which is really nice to have. The G25 buttons are nearly all on the shifter and you always have to keep a DS3 controller close by to press the PS button with. So for stuff like DiRT2 I would say a DFGT is always preferable for ease of use.
    But the big disadvantage of the DFGT is the paddle shifters and most importantly the pedals. Currently I have my G25 upstairs with the PC, and my DFGT downstairs with the PS3. If I find that GT5 full game really encourages accurate threshold braking I might well end up swapping the two wheels round. As it is in GT5 Prologue I tend to leave ABS set to the default 1 so there's no real need to threshold brake to anywhere near what is needed in iRacing or rFactor, so the DFGT pedals are perfectly up to the job.
     
  15. Zetec-ss

    Zetec-ss

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    hi Maz. long time. i might have to invest in one of these wheels now. we were a similar pace on the pad, if i could progress as quick as you have with your wheel i'd be a very happy man.

    out of interest how many hours do you spend a day learning the wheel?
     
  16. Synwraith

    Synwraith Staff Emeritus

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    Hi mate,

    When I first got the wheel I had 2 weeks off from work for Easter so it was in the region of 6 hours a day. On normal working days maybe 2 hours? On weekends when my partner was at work I could spend up to 6 hours again easy.

    I'm sad to say though that all my progress and pace on Prologue has not translated over to the demo of GT5. I'm overall 24th in the UK at the moment and slipping down further every day, I ran 4 hours in the normal car tonight for an improvement of 0.080s.

    For me it was, and is, slow and frustrating progress. But progress nonetheless I guess. It clearly takes me a great deal of time to adjust to new physics/control method. You may well adapt more sharply to the wheel and the new physics, so by all means, get that wheel :tup:

    All the best
    Maz
     
  17. Zetec-ss

    Zetec-ss

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    yeah i've struggled with the new physics on the GT5 Demo too. a few months ago i tried the DFP, i played on it for at least 4-5 hours and i was still around 2 seconds slower around Suzuka in AWD :tdown: around the same track in RWD i was roughly the same pace which wasn't so bad. i'll get the DFP out again and give it a week or so, if i i see improvements i'll have to invest in the G25/27. i just hate the idea of starting again.
     
  18. Synwraith

    Synwraith Staff Emeritus

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    It has to be done, no two ways about it. The end result (at least for me on Prologue) was 100% worth it. Even between event updates three months apart in for example the 512BB 500PP RWD event at Suzuka, second time around I was 0.6s a lap quicker than before. Even when you get a wheel the improvements will continue to come.

    The best example is GTP_CarlPKY/cpp214. He qualified D2 gold on Sixaxis and claims he wouldn't have been as fast as myself or Timeattack on Sixaxis, he changed to wheel same time as me and got promoted to Division 1 same time as me. He is now regularly competing at D1 gold level. He's also adapted to the GT5 Demo physics immediately and last time I checked was #2 in the overall US standings.

    It's worth it, no question.

    All the best
    Maz
     
  19. Adam41

    Adam41

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    I thought this was a relevant thread to post this in :)

    I found something to mount my g25 on, and I can't believe how amazing it feels to drive on prologue. The force feedback is amazing and it actually feels as if you are driving, rather than looking at a screen. My first go with the g25 was with the Integra at Fuji. After doing a few laps with the wheel, I switched back to my controller and it immediately felt as if I was looking at a screen again rather than being in it. My controller lap was 1.4 seconds faster than my wheel lap which isn't too bad.

    Then I switched to a F430 on Suzuka. Well wasn't that a laugh. It felt like I was driving on ice and I couldn't catch even the smallest of slides to save my life. My first lap was well over f..f... four minutes :lol: My second lap was 2:32 and in that lap I caught my first slide. Hooked a rear wheel on the grass, I had the power down and I just managed to save it. :sly: I'm dreading trying out a corvette or the 512.

    Now for the 6 month recovery to match my laptimes I'm achieving with the controller :lol:
     
  20. DGiant2000

    DGiant2000

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    I've just got a G25 and I know exactly what you mean! In some parts I feel much quicker as I can balance the throttle and brakes so much better but as for correcting a slide or trying to get through tight hairpins....

    I haven't tried anything powerful and RWD yet either :scared:
     
  21. SubaruWrXSt!

    SubaruWrXSt!

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    Hi guys. I just learned about the G25 yesterday and I was wondering if it really helps shave off seconds when you become good at using the wheel. And is it better in ways than the sixaxis? Thanks.
     
  22. crazytortise

    crazytortise

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    It's like having a whole new game :tup:

    It's more precise with throttle, brake and steering. If you have the money to get one then it's well well worth it.
    And yes when you get used to it you will see lower laptimes.
     
  23. SubaruWrXSt!

    SubaruWrXSt!

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    Alright then, I'm getting a G25 for sure, Thanks. =)
     
  24. skazz

    skazz

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    Actually big RWD cars need less steering lock than small FWD ones, certainly around hairpins. Turn in with a bit of lock, then use the brake/accelerator to do your cornering adjustments for you.

    The Corvette is an example of a car in Prologue where minimizing your steering movement is the only way to keep it stable and on the track.
     
  25. BZSIN

    BZSIN

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    Hello, brand new member here. I just wanted to say that reading this thread and hearing about Synwraith's progress inspired me to buy a wheel. I didn't get anything fancy like a G25 (way over my budget and useless to me as I've never been that good anyway), so I bought a DFGT. All I have to say is... WOW! After having used nothing but a controller since the original GT, a wheel is a completely new experience and it's like you're playing a whole new game. Even though I'm finding the learning curve rather steep, it's soooo much fun, and there's no way I can go back to a controller.

    Anyway, this post was just a long-winded way of saying "Thanks" :)
     
  26. TN2004S4

    TN2004S4

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    Haven't post on this thread in awhile, but it is one of the most informative thread that I had the opportunity to read here @ GTPlanet. Thanks Maz.

    Here is my current issue. I just got my hands on the G25 last night and was experimenting with it a little. I find it hard to adjust to the pedals from the DFGT. I test it out at Suzuka 700PP with the Clio Tuned and find that I'm a tad bit slower overall with the G25. What's funny is I'm actually faster with the G25 through the first sector, but much slower through the second sector of Suzuka. I guess I'm having a lot of trouble adjusting to the feel of the brake pedal on the G25.

    Anyone on here that had convert from the DFGT to the G25 have similiar problem? Do I need to readjust my brake settings to better suit for the brakes on the G25? When using the DFGT I was driving with socks on and no shoes. With the G25 is it better driving with the shoes, because with just socks, it put a lot of pressure on my foot. Opinions welcome.

    Love the build quality of the G25 though.
    Sorry for being all over the place. I just wanted to put my thoughts down as fast as I can.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  27. Chadders85

    Chadders85

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    TN2004S4

    I made the switch a while ago and I understand what you are saying about the brake pedal. I used to play in socks without shoes too for the DFP and I tried to do the same with the G25 when I got it but quickly realised that the brake pedal especially was too firm and when I tried to heel toe my right foot started to get sore after a few races.

    I started to use my shoes and it is definitely much better for me. I would leave your brake settings as they are, you just have to adjust to the feel of it and it wont take as long as you might think. Make sure your shoes are fastened fairly tight :)
     
  28. TN2004S4

    TN2004S4

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    Second day with the G25 got much better. Closing in on the ghost of the DFGT. 1'59.890 for the G25 and 1'59.873 with the DFGT. My right foot is taking a beating though and the steering wheels on the G25 feels like it's a tad bit smaller. The shift buttons are built in on the DFGT therefore the wheels just feel a bit thicker. It makes my hands feel tired much faster, but it just might be mounting angle. Is there a way to modify the G25 so that the steering wheel feel thicker? Thanks for the tip on the shoe. I will try that this evening.
     
  29. EL_ZISSOU

    EL_ZISSOU

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    Hey Solarr, I had the same experience- time made it all go away. I think after 20 or 30 hours of driving, the pedals felt totally normal to me. I'm sure if I went back to the DFGT the pedals would feel as alien as the G25 ones did at first.

    Also, if any of the pedals are too firm (or too soft) for your liking, you can experiment with that by buying a replacement spring of a different resistance level. A hardware store or plenty of online stores should have what you need.

    :dopey:

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Dan_

    Dan_ Premium

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    Well, there's not a thread dedicated to share DFGT user experiences, so one question came to my mind:

    Is the G25 ( and G27 ) really that better than a DFGT? I've bought a DFGT a couple of months ago, took just two days to be faster with the DFGT than with a DS3 and still improving. Honestly, I've played in a G27 for about half an hour and felt the pedals really weird, like rock solid. The DFGT is too soft but I'm getting used to play without ABS, the pedals doesn't offer that accurate "bite" that you have in a real car.

    Question is: I'm still improving with a DFGT, but I'm saving some bucks for a G27 to play when GT5 arrives (some distant day...), is the wheel really a good value for the money? Or I should keep my DFGT because there's still room for improvement?

    Regards,
    Dan