SlipStream in GT5P

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GT--ONE

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Do anyone feel that speed gained from slipstream in GT5P is too much? I were racing with my friend in Suzuka, we overtook each other alternately on the straight for almost 10 laps, my friend got away only i made a mistake n got a penalty. Anyone know does tis happens in real racing?
 
This topic has been discussed alot here. There is some debate but most of us seem to agree that the draft is too strong in GT5P.
 
Never having drafted another car at 300 kilometers an hour in real-life, though, I'm not qualified to say whether it's "too strong" or "just right". It doesn't seem inordinately strong, to me.

One thing I would like to know is... is the draft dependent on the size of the car in front of you? That'd be something interesting to test.
 
GT--ONE
Anyone know does tis happens in real racing?
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Ever watch a real race?

Honestly, I think it feels about right. Drafting can help even from a fairly long distance, especially at very high speeds.
 
Maybe not too strong, but kicks in like said way too early.... the distance should be reduced by like 5... its way too much....
 
Just watch touring cars and you'll see that the slipstream is not that strong.
 
Indeed.

In GT5p, the exit from the corner prior to the straight doesn't even matter. You'll still catch them before the next corner. It may cause closer racing, but it's annoying to exit a corner perfectly and still be overtaken by some clown because of an overexagerated draft. Furthermore it causes "draft dodging", i.e. people zig-zagging down the straight so you don't catch their draft.

It's fairly apparent that neither of these are present in real racing - I'll use F1 as an example but as above I'm sure BTCC or DTM will also work.
 
If you've ever watched the aussie V8 Supercars, they barely pick up any slipstream down the straights.

One thing I do hate on GT5P is the further behind you are, the more time/advantage you get. That is seriously unrealistic.
 
Well, it seems over pronounced me. If I drive at 200km/h in real life I don't feel any sort of slip stream. OK, I won't drive too close to the car in front on the autobahn but if I sit at what feels like the same distance in GT5P I'd be picking up a slipstream.

Of course this isn't the most scientific of tests.......
 
GT--ONE
Do anyone feel that speed gained from slipstream in GT5P is too much? I were racing with my friend in Suzuka, we overtook each other alternately on the straight for almost 10 laps, my friend got away only i made a mistake n got a penalty. Anyone know does tis happens in real racing?
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Many have argue it might be bit too strong, many say that how it is in REAL racing, or something similar..

TO me, going 150MPH, there is so MUCH wind on your car, I am not suprised once you go behind someone during those HIGH speeds you will overtake them with ease.
 
NoxNoctis Umbra
Many have argue it might be bit too strong, many say that how it is in REAL racing, or something similar..

TO me, going 150MPH, there is so MUCH wind on your car, I am not suprised once you go behind someone during those HIGH speeds you will overtake them with ease.
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yeah but there is still wind on your car too.... just its moving in your direction slightly... its way too strong and works from way too far. so un realistic.
 
mad94d
Yes I know. I'm talking about the slipstream. You get a massive tow when you are a second behind and in the draft. You can go up to 30 kays faster.

I hated RBE as well though, i'm happy it's gone.
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I was referring to the fact that it used to be a lot worse. It wasn't just when you caught up someone that your car turned into a rocketship :)
 
GT--ONE
Do anyone feel that speed gained from slipstream in GT5P is too much? *snip*
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Yes, I have (had) the same feeling but I'm not entirely sure. Maybe the speed you gain is a little bit too much, yes.

Isn't it so that the speed of the cars and the cars themselfs on track track varies too much.
So if you approch a slower car real fast and you're did not reach the top speed yet, you will start to speed up even more due to slipstreaming, giving the effect that you gain too much speed. The difference in speed between this slower car and your very fast car is very high, causing the effect that you're gaining speed very fast.


Real live race cars are always driving at the limit of the topspeed, have about the same acceleration, hence that the cars don't seem to gain speed when they are slipstreaming.
:)
 
PickleAhoy
The distance at which drafting kicks in is too far.
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This is the main problem. Not only it is unrealistic in itself, but also makes the "slingshot" effect much more pronounced, because the car behind starts to gain speed a long time before the overtake itself.
 
Duke
Ever watch a real race?

Honestly, I think it feels about right. Drafting can help even from a fairly long distance, especially at very high speeds.
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No way, not this far at least, especially when I compare with other simulations such as Ferrari Challenge and F1:CE which do it far better, or at least far more what I would consider realistic from what I've seen of drafting in real life.
 
I have never seen such a huge slipstreaming effect in real life. If you watch real touring car racing they barely gain anything down the straight. Now that catch up logic has been removed, the absurd slipstream is my main concern for GT.

I think this is PD saying we know whats best again and getting it wrong again. Someone always has their fingers in GT games, in the past it was the american producer saying make it more fun. I bet the slipstream and catchup are his doing again like the sped up US versions of previous games.
 
nasanu
I think this is PD saying we know whats best again and getting it wrong again. Someone always has their fingers in GT games, in the past it was the american producer saying make it more fun. I bet the slipstream and catchup are his doing again like the sped up US versions of previous games.
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What on earth do the Americans have to do with this?

Its quite simple to explain really - Gran Turismo is a hugely popular game, and not just with fans of race simulators. So with this in mind, its understandable when PD take certain routes with their games that might not be as realistic as we'd like.
 
Racing cars are a hard comparison. Especially as there are no racing cars in GT5P... (tuner cars don't count... too little downforce).

Racing cars are moving much faster between corners than street cars. Downforce from "Tuner Cars" already gives you an extra 10-20 km/h over street cars out of a corner. The downforce from a touring car, plus the effects of slicks, would make then another 20 km/h or more faster.

They're closer to maximum acceleration out of a corner, and the extra downforce produces more drag at higher speeds, limiting the effects of drafting. And many modern race-cars have their aerodynamics designed to prevent drafting.

If you watch a race series with less aerodynamics... say... NASCAR... you'll note that the draft-effect can be quite pronounced at over 250 km/h.

I'm not saying GT5P's drafting physics are incredibly accurate (they're probably not... I don't imagine you should be able to catch the same draft off of a Ford GT as you get off of a turbocharged brick like a Skyline) but unless you have experience driving and slipstreaming street cars at auto-bahn speeds, there's really no point of comparison.
 
I have an idea how they can balance out drafting. Its called no grip and airborne. If people knew this could happen they would never draft. I find that the draft effect is a little too strong. You also do not loose all that much grip when drafting so there is little incentive not to do it.

Exhibit A
Exhibit B
 
The Mercedes (Edit: And Porsche) in those videos had a serious design flaw. I'll let you wikipedia it or allow a more serious le mans fan talk about here.

niky
I'm not saying GT5P's drafting physics are incredibly accurate (they're probably not... I don't imagine you should be able to catch the same draft off of a Ford GT as you get off of a turbocharged brick like a Skyline) but unless you have experience driving and slipstreaming street cars at auto-bahn speeds, there's really no point of comparison.
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This could be true. Though earlier in this thread someone stated that experienced nothing like GT5p drafting on the auto-bahn.

I, personally, have never experienced slipstreaming on UK dual carriageway - though this is 90-100mph tops (not even a reduction in wind noise). I'm unsure when slipstreaming kicks in on GT5p.
 
It seems a little over boosted to me, and as far as I can tell, it does nothing to downforce.

In game, it feels like you are driving through a total vacuum. I'm not entirely sure on the realistic speed increase though, so I'm only basing it on what I see in races.
 
Maybe they made it unrealistic because of SHORT races?
You go online, and you only have 3-5 laps on average. In real life, there is Slipstream, but we do not know how much FASTER you really can do it in. But when you watch racing, sometimes it may take few laps before a good run to overtake with Slipstream.

Sometimes it seems GT5P is pretty close and sometimes it feels way off.
So far all I know in GT5P online, people want to RUSH everything and risk it all, in real life, sure, people try to risk and rush, but at same time they do it much more carefully. Just because we do not see in real life that race car drives use slipstream that much because they try to be more careful and caucious?
 
On a side note: I've noticed a strong draft effect at about ten car-lengths at a mere 120 mph. At 170 mph, that draft will be much stronger. You're not going to "notice" a draft unless you're at a point where your car can't accelerate any further on its own and there's another car in front of you that's also at its top speed (which is the same as your own). Having gone hooning in my younger years, I can tell you, yes, Virginia, there is a draft at that distance.

If you've never noticed a draft in real-life, answer me this... how often are you in the top of fifth or sixth gear (at about 150-180 mph) following another car of the same power running at the same speed for a couple of miles? A lot? Then that probably makes you an expert on drafting, then... :lol:

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Of course, most of us would never do something that stupid. In real life, you can't dive in on someone in a corner, collide and drive off again after five seconds of ghost-like insubstantiality.

In real life, drivers in well-balanced series are in cars with identical levels of grip, nearly identical acceleration, nearly identical top speeds, nearly identical levels of downforce... with drivers whose lap times only vary by a few tenths of a second per lap. Drive an identical line through a corner behind another driver and he'll be on the power first, and a dozen or so car lengths ahead by the time you're on the power. If you're driving an overtaking line through the corner, you'll be on the power even later, giving him a lead of even more car lengths.

The only way to successfully slipstream in identically powered cars is to be faster than the guy in front of you through the corner, starting from far enough back that you can get on the power at the same time he does, so you're still on his tail on the straight and can slipstream.

In online racing, you're driving cars which are PP balanced, yes, but PP is calculated based on a combination of downforce, weight, grip and power. It's perfectly possible to catch a guy on the straight with less acceleration and slipstream past him quite easily. It's also possible to come up behind a guy in a corner who's so much slower than you that you can get on the power at the same time as he does and slipstream him before the next.

Unless you're a bunch of superhuman racers who put in millimeter perfect laps and lap within a tenth of your best time every lap for the duration of the race, you're not going to see the same level of difficulty in slipstreaming as real-life drivers. And even if you are a god-like driver, it's a fair bet your opponents aren't. ;)

I know I'm not. The only way I can successfully catch a draft on a track other than Daytona or Fuji is by sheer luck or by coming up on a car that's being held up by another car that's much slower than either of us. Damn, the "Tuner Car" series in S-Class is torture on Pro-Physics... :lol:
 
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I agree that the drafting effect is way to strong. About 70% to strong. But I have to disagree with some of the comments in here. Some say there is no effect on downforce. I say, go try the f430 challenge at Suzuka. If you follow to closely around 130r or 200r, you will feel it. Some one else said that increasing wing has no affect on drag. Take a winged car to daytona and see what your top speed is with and without wings. There is a difference.
Besides being to strong, I think there is something missing in the draft. As you approach a lead car, your bow wave or the high pressure zone in front of your car should start to fill the lead cars wake or low pressure zone. This should allow the lead car to get a boost in speed and by working together, you should both be able to go a little faster.
Yes, PD has to make the game entertaining and exciting. But there are 3 levels in the game, beginner, intermediate and pro. I see no reason for PD to not make pro level as realistic as they can, leaving the other 2 levels for the more casual player.
 
niky
Racing cars are a hard comparison. Especially as there are no racing cars in GT5P... (tuner cars don't count... too little downforce).

Racing cars are moving much faster between corners than street cars. Downforce from "Tuner Cars" already gives you an extra 10-20 km/h over street cars out of a corner. The downforce from a touring car, plus the effects of slicks, would make then another 20 km/h or more faster.
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Wait, how are you finding this extra downforce from Touring Cars? How on earth does a, for example, Vauxhall Vectra BTCC have more downforce than the Viper/Tuned, Corvette/Tuned or GTLM? Also, who says you can't run slicks in GT5:P?

I think for an easier comparison we could use the example of the Renault Clio Sport. I'm 95% certain I've never seen Renault Clio Sports achieve this much slipsteam as they do in the game at these distances.
 

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