So do you think GT5 will fill a 25gb bluray, or dual-layered 50gb? or even less?

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Lotrzyna
Nice equation :)

Being persnickety? shouldn't that be 2[X2] and everything >0 ? ;)
Now we only need 2 more equations and some details from PD...

Mine was just a very raw estimation your would be quite nice estimation with error only depending on size of example x,y,z,mi,x2,y2,mi2,m2

Thanks for taking me down a peg.



But no calling names please.
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I was just jocking I wasn't teasing you. And you need more than 2 equations if they don't change their techniques. If they do ,for example, texture compression then the size will change a lot(then you would need way more data). And why 2X2 and eveyrthing more than 0? I am very good at maths but i don't get it
 
Stevisiov
Well I actually think more, since the GT case appears to have 3 disc slots...
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No need for 3 discs, PS3 can read multiple layers of Bluray. I bet the other 2 discs can be special features, making off etc etc.
 
cobraagent90
I was just jocking I wasn't teasing you. And you need more than 2 equations if they don't change their techniques. If they do ,for example, texture compression then the size will change a lot(then you would need way more data). And why 2X2 and eveyrthing more than 0? I am very good at maths but i don't get it
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Because size can't have a value less tan 0 and you used =/= it should be at least >= :)

2x[Xindex2] because we have 2 cars in TT demo and from what I can see second equation is about TT demo, and I said 2 more equations but I was wrong 6 more equations ;) - 8 variables 8 equations if the set is to be resolvable unless some variables are unnecessary and in our case every variable is necessary (I think so)...

cobraagent90
If anyone is interested I have continued the equation a bit
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post it please
 
Lotrzyna
Because size can't have a value less tan 0 and you used =/= it should be at least >= :)

2x[Xindex2] because we have 2 cars in TT demo and from what I can see second equation is about TT demo, and I said 2 more equations but I was wrong 6 more equations ;) - 8 variables 8 equations if the set is to be resolvable unless some variables are unnecessary and in our case every variable is necessary (I think so)...



post it please
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Check it out I got rid of m and μ
Yes you are right but there is no symbol like that in the equation editor I found it I am gonna reupload the equation
 

Attachments

I'm sorry but I "must" now leave for a party :)
But I would like to continue the discussion tomorrow - since I have some new ideas ;) plus in previous post I meant "unless some equation is unnecessary"(gives us no new information) not variable for example:
x+y+z=3
2x+2y+2z=6
x+y+z=117

second equation is unnecessary and set is contradictory.
I'm not entirely sure you can leave out mi and m just like that.
Back to all that tomorrow for now:

Happy New Year to all GTP members.
 
Oh okay, so graphics and video take most of the space while sounds and physics aren't too bad, cool. I'm hoping PD give each car their real life sound, seeing as sound files dont take up that much. The TT-demo sounds really good IMO, I really like the bassy sound the car gives off. If they fill the left over giggabites with improved engine sounds etc that would be fantastic.
 
Oh the things people will discuss to pass the time! ;)

I'm going to say it will all fit onto one 25GB Blu-ray. For three reasons:

1. If it ends up not needing a 50GB Blu-ray, I won't feel I've got less of a game!
2. If it ends up needing a 50GB Blu-ray, I'll feel like I've got more of a game!
3. It really doesn't matter - it uses what it uses, which will be more than a dual-layer DVD I'm sure!
 
Lotrzyna
I'm sorry but I "must" now leave for a party :)
But I would like to continue the discussion tomorrow - since I have some new ideas ;) plus in previous post I meant "unless some equation is unnecessary"(gives us no new information) not variable for example:
x+y+z=3
2x+2y+2z=6
x+y+z=117

second equation is unnecessary and set is contradictory.
I'm not entirely sure you can leave out mi and m just like that.
Back to all that tomorrow for now:

Happy New Year to all GTP members.
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bye. But i didn't leave m and μ out. I played with the inequalities. I will show you how.
 
Personally I can't beleive it will be over 25GB unless they make it that way. And by that I mean they add lots of high quality video and uncompressed audio. Then it can be almost any size. But the actual game size (think if they made a PSN downloadable version similar to what they did for GT5P) I think would really be under 25GB.

Realistically though, 25GB, if packed and compressed well is a LOT of data. To be honest I think a lot of people chiming in don't really understand how data size applies to what you see in game...
 
Devedander
Personally I can't beleive it will be over 25GB unless they make it that way. And by that I mean they add lots of high quality video and uncompressed audio. Then it can be almost any size. But the actual game size (think if they made a PSN downloadable version similar to what they did for GT5P) I think would really be under 25GB.

Realistically though, 25GB, if packed and compressed well is a LOT of data. To be honest I think a lot of people chiming in don't really understand how data size applies to what you see in game...
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👍 25GB really is a lot of data.
 
Devedander
Realistically though, 25GB, if packed and compressed well is a LOT of data. To be honest I think a lot of people chiming in don't really understand how data size applies to what you see in game...
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If your prepared to spare a spu just for uncompressing and loading to ram which can be pretty resource intensive.

if 50gb is available to you theres no reason not to use it and not have to worry about compression decay or processor cycle use.
 
Aloha62_2
If your prepared to spare a spu just for uncompressing and loading to ram which can be pretty resource intensive.

if 50gb is available to you theres no reason not to use it and not have to worry about compression decay or processor cycle use.
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I can't imagine it's that resource intensive to decompress data as it's pretty much the norm out there and it seems to work pretty well. Everything has to be loaded to RAM eventually so that's not really a concern and decompressing textures to make them available can be in large handled during the loading screen. I am not up to date on this sort of thing, but do you have specific examples of times when a whole SPU has had to be dedicated to decompression? I would think at worst the CPU could handle the intermitant task and at best the GPU and Audio processor may have hardware decompression built in.

As for no reason not to use more space, there is access time, data transfer time, increased seek time for files spread apart. A lot of this is reduced by installing the data to the hard drive (which I think is a reason not to as the PS3 installs, as short as they are, are really annoying)but there is also the possibilty of hardware decompression which nullifies performance overhead and the fact that storying compressed data in RAM and decompressing on the fly can often be more than offset by the value of making more use of your limited RAM by storing smaller compressed files rather than uncompressed. And remember we are talking some hefty processing power in current gen CPUs... decompressing is not a terribly resource heavy process in most cases...

There are probably plenty more reasons both pro and con on the use of umcompressed vs compressed but I really don't think saying "the space is there, why not use it" is as simple as it sounds. It feels a lot like saying "I rented a huge moving van, no need to pack anything..."

BTW what is compression decay? Are you talking about lossy compression? If so there is always the option of lossless compression and even with lossy compression, as long as you aren't resaving changes over and over the degradation of quality can be controlled since it's only one generation, and usually kept to a point where it's undetectable to virtually unnoticeable. We are almost certainly going to see anistropic filtering and AA which do more to direct texture quality than compression in most cases.
 
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Aloha62_2
If your prepared to spare a spu just for uncompressing and loading to ram which can be pretty resource intensive.

if 50gb is available to you theres no reason not to use it and not have to worry about compression decay or processor cycle use.
Click to expand...

spe not spu
 
cobraagent90
MGS4 did it because of 8 hours of full hd cutscenes whereas gt5 will propably have 1 hour max.
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Erroneous conclusion. MGS4's cutscenes are rendered in-engine, in real time, using the game's assets.

The thing that probably hurt MGS4's size the most is the uncompressed audio for the cutscenes.
 
yaywalter
Erroneous conclusion. MGS4's cutscenes are rendered in-engine, in real time, using the game's assets.

The thing that probably hurt MGS4's size the most is the uncompressed audio for the cutscenes.
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Why don't you go try download all the cutscenes in sd from handvseye. AND THATS LOW QUALITY. Not even high-quality. The audio is nothing compared to the video. And where did you get this info?
 
cobraagent90
Why don't you go try download all the cutscenes in sd from handvseye. AND THATS LOW QUALITY. Not even high-quality. The audio is nothing compared to the video. And where did you get this info?
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I believe I read a breakdown and the video was deemed to be game engine due to the fact that parts of the scene changed to be appropriate to choices made in the game (ie correct clothing depending on what outfits were available or some such and the ability to move the character during some cutscenes).

Also uncompressed 7.1 audio does not end up being small. We tend to think of video/audio file size in terms of what we download ie a divx movie or a dvd vs an mp3.

But if you recall back in the day when we were dealing with uncompressed cdda rips and wav files, the file size got big fast and that was 2 channel. Same holds true today but at 7.1 channels of uncompressed you get a lot of space eaten up fast. I believe DTS Master encodes at about 25MB/sec with current uncompressed movie audio clocking in around 6Mbps (that's just off the top of my head though and could be off).

As for downloading videos of cutscenes, unless they are direct file rips of the original media, a video of a cutscene proves little about the original filesize behind the cutscene. For instance I could take a video capture of an hour of me playing this game http://91.202.41.234/ and encode it as SD MPEG2 (DVD) You would get multiple GB however obviously the game did not have gigabytes of data in it making that video. Same with the cutscenes from MGS4... a video capture of the action does not tell you anything other than what the bitrate of that type of video compression created on that scene, nothing about the source. The source could have been HD FMV or it could have been procedurally generated or anything in between.
 
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SuperCobraJet
No, I'm not a MS fan, but their decision was made prior to BluRay being chosen as the new industry standard.

BluRay was actually still a long shot at the time.

Being a Sony technology, I can't help but wonder what a somewhat precarious position this puts MS in for the next, next gen console.
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They did back HD-DVD, and yet still choose a regular DVD drive...
 
Flerbizky
I actually have NO idea, but I do tend to snicker @ M$ for choosing a petty DVD drive in their "next gen" console (-:
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Pure fan boyism is not needed, do they snicker for our lack of party chat.

37 gig for me if Anyones opening up a book.
 
Devedander
I believe I read a breakdown and the video was deemed to be game engine due to the fact that parts of the scene changed to be appropriate to choices made in the game (ie correct clothing depending on what outfits were available or some such and the ability to move the character during some cutscenes).

Also uncompressed 7.1 audio does not end up being small. We tend to think of video/audio file size in terms of what we download ie a divx movie or a dvd vs an mp3.

But if you recall back in the day when we were dealing with uncompressed cdda rips and wav files, the file size got big fast and that was 2 channel. Same holds true today but at 7.1 channels of uncompressed you get a lot of space eaten up fast. I believe DTS Master encodes at about 25MB/sec with current uncompressed movie audio clocking in around 6Mbps (that's just off the top of my head though and could be off).

As for downloading videos of cutscenes, unless they are direct file rips of the original media, a video of a cutscene proves little about the original filesize behind the cutscene. For instance I could take a video capture of an hour of me playing this game http://91.202.41.234/ and encode it as SD MPEG2 (DVD) You would get multiple GB however obviously the game did not have gigabytes of data in it making that video. Same with the cutscenes from MGS4... a video capture of the action does not tell you anything other than what the bitrate of that type of video compression created on that scene, nothing about the source. The source could have been HD FMV or it could have been procedurally generated or anything in between.
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Are you talking about true 7.1 linear PCM? Thats aac right? (Mp4 format: avc is the video, aac is the sound,i think). It takes space but the vid takes even more space. Anyway forget about MGS4 and lets talk about FF13. 1 50GB disc, all data uncompressed with 9 hours of cutscenes. Do you think GT5 is bigger than FF13? I don't
 
I think what also has to be taken in consideration is whether or not files will be repeated in the Blu-ray disc. I read somewhere, but can't find the link how some PS3 games actually repeated certain files on the disc to improve the chances or the laser finding the file faster.

MGS4 was 30GB, but only 4.6GB were required. Kinda off topic, but MGS had a ton of textures and they were using uncompressed PCM audio. The install probalby only loads critical files. As for GT5, it would probably need a 50GB disc, but no bigger. Lets jsut say 20 tracks and and 80 variations. The properties of just the road are different. (Laser scanning). And form what I read, each car model isn't just 25mb but just under 100mb each. GT5: ~50GB Disc (Besides any other things in a bundel or special edition), 6GB install

Just my 2cents ;)
 
cobraagent90
Are you talking about true 7.1 linear PCM? Thats aac right? (Mp4 format: avc is the video, aac is the sound,i think). It takes space but the vid takes even more space. Anyway forget about MGS4 and lets talk about FF13. 1 50GB disc, all data uncompressed with 9 hours of cutscenes. Do you think GT5 is bigger than FF13? I don't
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You'll see I chimed in at under 25GB.

stevetam
I think what also has to be taken in consideration is whether or not files will be repeated in the Blu-ray disc. I read somewhere, but can't find the link how some PS3 games actually repeated certain files on the disc to improve the chances or the laser finding the file faster.

MGS4 was 30GB, but only 4.6GB were required. Kinda off topic, but MGS had a ton of textures and they were using uncompressed PCM audio. The install probalby only loads critical files. As for GT5, it would probably need a 50GB disc, but no bigger. Lets jsut say 20 tracks and and 80 variations. The properties of just the road are different. (Laser scanning). And form what I read, each car model isn't just 25mb but just under 100mb each. GT5: ~50GB Disc (Besides any other things in a bundel or special edition), 6GB install

Just my 2cents ;)
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I don't see what variations has to do with track data size. Wouldn't you just have the whole track done once, then alter placement of some items to reach those variations? It's not like Daytona takes 500MB, then having 2 variations of it will be 1000MB.

BTW if each car is 100MB, then 1000 cars is 100GB...

And if each car is 100MB then you load 12 into memory, you just used 1.2GB of memory...

Something seems wrong there...
 
cobraagent90
Are you talking about true 7.1 linear PCM? Thats aac right? (Mp4 format: avc is the video, aac is the sound,i think). It takes space but the vid takes even more space. Anyway forget about MGS4 and lets talk about FF13. 1 50GB disc, all data uncompressed with 9 hours of cutscenes. Do you think GT5 is bigger than FF13? I don't
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You're missing the point. MGS4's cutscenes weren't prerendered videos. They are scripted sequences using the game's rendering engine and assets, thus take up very little space.

Same with Final Fantasy XIII to an extent. Though there are some prerendered cutscenes mixed with the in-engine ones, which certainly take up a fair amount of space.

I don't know if GT5 will be bigger than FFXIII. It'll be close... GT5 certainly has more 3D models. A lot more. And if each of the 1000 vehicles has it's own sound files, that takes up quite a bit of space as well. Not to mention that while GT5 doesn't typically have cutscenes, GT5 might ship with some HD GT-TV content on the disc.
 
I bet i will not be more than 12GB, not counting music and videos.
With music and vids it could be 50GB xD .. But I think it will be ~20GB
 

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