So do you think GT5 will fill a 25gb bluray, or dual-layered 50gb? or even less?

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Why is that? All of you guys are overestimating gt5. Its a racing game. It doesn't require as much power and data as shooters and adventure games. You think that because its been 5 years its gonna be huge with a massive 10 hour install? I would bet on an install because its casual for blu-rays these days but i don't expect more than 1 GB to be installed in the HDD

First off, I don't think anyone believes GT5 will have a 10 hour install. It'll be closer to 10 minutes if there is one, which I suspect there will be based on Prologue. And I figure it'll be 4 or 5 GB.

Second, ugh. I absolutely hate the misconception that racing games are somehow inherently less taxing on hardware. While a shooter might use some processing power for some pretty particle effects that GT doesn't have a need for, GT uses that bit of processing power for something else, such as the animated crowd around the track. And GT needs less data than other games? I'd argue that GT needs more data than most other games. 1,000 cars with 3D models, sounds, textures, shaders, 800+ physics parameters each. That sounds like a lot of data to me...
 
dual layer 50gb at minimum... dont forget they will have hd footage of each realworld track, and 1,000 cars at 400,000 polygons each, gran turismo tv..... dual layer at minimum

hd footage of each realworld track? How do you know its gonna be in the disc and not downloadable?
 
First off, I don't think anyone believes GT5 will have a 10 hour install. It'll be closer to 10 minutes if there is one, which I suspect there will be based on Prologue. And I figure it'll be 4 or 5 GB.

Second, ugh. I absolutely hate the misconception that racing games are somehow inherently less taxing on hardware. While a shooter might use some processing power for some pretty particle effects that GT doesn't have a need for, GT uses that bit of processing power for something else, such as the animated crowd around the track. And GT needs less data than other games? I'd argue that GT needs more data than most other games. 1,000 cars with 3D models, sounds, textures, shaders, 800+ physics parameters each. That sounds like a lot of data to me...

10h install was a metaphor. And its not a misconception. Lets take for example Uncharted 2 It uses more than 90% of the CPU If you seriously expect GT5 to beat that then you have no idea of game programming. Again, you are overestimating gt because of the half-a-decate wait. Yeah its gonna be the best driving sim but not the best game(performance not opinion)
 
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10h install was a metaphor. And its not a misconception. Lets take for example Uncharted 2 It uses more than 90% of the CPU If you seriously expect GT5 to beat that then you have no idea of game programming. Again, you are overestimating gt because of the half-a-decate wait. Yeah its gonna be the best driving sim but not the best game(performance not opinion)

First off, where exactly do you pull this "90% of CPU" figure from? If it's from Naughty Dog saying that they're using "90% of the PS3's power", then I hate to break it to you, but they themselves are pulling that figure out of their asses. I don't think GT5 isn't going to make full use of the processor. I don't think there are many exclusives that don't. When a developer says "oh we think we're using all of the PS3's power" or "about 90% of its power", they really mean "we're using all of the processor, and I think we've tapped it out" or "we're using all of the processor, but I think we'll be able to optimize our engine in the future".
 
hd footage of each realworld track? How do you know its gonna be in the disc and not downloadable?

It should be on the disc, would be pretty unfair for those whose consoles aren't online otherwise. There's always some functionality lost for these gamers with games that have an online element, but it shouldn't extend to any areas that it doesn't need to. I'd like to think that PD think this way too and won't 'short change' gamers that don't have their PS3s online.
 
I think I already said it a while ago but I really hope PD gives us a way to install the full game to the hard drive. Be it the only exception but I want it badly :D
 
10h install was a metaphor. And its not a misconception. Lets take for example Uncharted 2 It uses more than 90% of the CPU If you seriously expect GT5 to beat that then you have no idea of game programming. Again, you are overestimating gt because of the half-a-decate wait. Yeah its gonna be the best driving sim but not the best game(performance not opinion)

You really shouldn't be talking about things you don't know pretending you do (well, you may know but it certainly looks like you don't). I don't really know it myself also so I can't go into details but I'll just tell you something: real-time damage calculation. If it's as sophisticated as Kaz is saying it is, it wins "best game(performance not opinion)" right out of the bat. No questions asked.

I remember an interview where Kaz said that the damage engine was ready but they were having problems tweaking it so it can run in real-time. If they can do what they did with the Subaru in the E3 trailer in real-time... I can't even begin to tell you how mind-blowing it will be. That they did it is already astonishing, making it work in a PS3 game will be nothing but godlike. Unfortunately, I bet it will be toned down quite a lot, or limited to rally races since the biggest crash would involve only 2 cars, so the game doesn't have to pause for 10 seconds to calculate a 16 car crash. PD never ceases to impress me but pulling off godlike feats? I don't think so. We shall see.

Anyway, one thing is certain: you can trash you copy of Uncharted 2 and it's "best game(performance not opinion)" award if it happens.
 
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First off, where exactly do you pull this "90% of CPU" figure from? If it's from Naughty Dog saying that they're using "90% of the PS3's power", then I hate to break it to you, but they themselves are pulling that figure out of their asses. I don't think GT5 isn't going to make full use of the processor. I don't think there are many exclusives that don't. When a developer says "oh we think we're using all of the PS3's power" or "about 90% of its power", they really mean "we're using all of the processor, and I think we've tapped it out" or "we're using all of the processor, but I think we'll be able to optimize our engine in the future".

Not only from naughty dog my friend. If it was a lie then we would know by now. They said exactly what i wrote in my previews comment
 
You really shouldn't be talking about things you don't know pretending you do (well, you may know but it certainly looks like you don't). I don't really know it myself also so I can't go into details but I'll just tell you something: real-time damage calculation. If it's as sophisticated as Kaz is saying it is, it wins "best game(performance not opinion)" right out of the bat. No questions asked.

I remember an interview where Kaz said that the damage engine was ready but they were having problems tweaking it so it can run in real-time. If they can do what they did with the Subaru in the E3 trailer in real-time... I can't even begin to tell you how mind-blowing it will be. That they did it is already astonishing, making it work in a PS3 game will be nothing but godlike. Unfortunately, I bet it will be toned down quite a lot, or limited to rally races since the biggest crash would involve only 2 cars, so the game doesn't have to pause for 10 seconds to calculate a 16 car crash. PD never ceases to impress me but pulling off godlike feats? I don't think so. We shall see.

Anyway, one thing is certain: you can trash you copy of Uncharted 2 and it's "best game(performance not opinion)" award if it happens.

I am not pretending anything. I now a lot about ps3 cpu and gpu. How many times will i have to write this? You are overestimating gt5. You expect A LOT from it and you will be disapointed. PD will make the best driving sim,for that i'm certain. But you will be disapointed if you expect perfection. Uncharted 2 is the most amazing game I have ever played and the power required of the ps3 to simply run it is astonishing. If you expect that from GT5 then you kno nothing about PS3
And by the way Uncharted 2 has won many awards including game of the year
 
Wow there's some unpleasant/arrogant people around here. It's only at best an educated guess people, nothing worth falling out over.

Why not hold a sweepstake (in kb or bytes even), would make it more interesting and might help keep it a bit more light-hearted?
 
Sounds like fun. I guess 48,061,757,784 bytes.

I'm glad you guessed first. I was a bit concerned that I might make a decimal place error and accidentally guess a figure that could be fitted easily onto a floppy disc.

I'm going with 78,764,192,011 bytes (resisted the urge to go 1 byte more than you Walt)

Come on the rest of you, stop bickering and telling people how they are all wrong and take a guess.
 
So my guesses are:

If game has 20 tracks:

Minimum 14,000,000,000 bytes
Maximum 20,000,000,000 bytes

If game has 80 tracks:

Minimum 18,709,090,909 bytes
Maximum 25,745,454,545 bytes

+ movies

:sly:
 
So my guesses are:

If game has 20 tracks:

Minimum 14,000,000,000 bytes
Maximum 20,000,000,000 bytes

If game has 80 tracks:

Minimum 18,709,090,909 bytes
Maximum 25,745,454,545 bytes

+ movies

:sly:

Stop trying to cheat, you multiple guessing heathen you :sly:.
 
I am not pretending anything. I now a lot about ps3 cpu and gpu. How many times will i have to write this? You are overestimating gt5. You expect A LOT from it and you will be disapointed. PD will make the best driving sim,for that i'm certain. But you will be disapointed if you expect perfection. Uncharted 2 is the most amazing game I have ever played and the power required of the ps3 to simply run it is astonishing. If you expect that from GT5 then you kno nothing about PS3
And by the way Uncharted 2 has won many awards including game of the year

You misunderstood me. I'm not overestimating it at all. Not that I can realize anyway. I have a small hope that what was shown on the E3 trailer will be in the actual game. Small hope, that's all.

Uncharted 2 is a really impressive game, I'm not denying that. It's pushing the PS3 to it's limit, I'm not denying that either. What I'm telling you is, if the damage shown in the E3 trailer is actually in the final game, it will be a greater accomplishment than what Uncharted 2 ever dreamed of doing.

While I may be overestimating GT, it does look like you're underestimating it. Prologue is already pushing the RSX to it's limit, squeezing 4xMSAA at 60fps with unmatched car graphics in the gaming world nowadays. Including computer racing games. It doesn't get any more impressive than that. Sure the cell is definitely underused in Prologue, but that will (here's hoping it actually happens) change in the final game with that unbelievable damage engine. For that split second it will work it's magic to deliver unprecedented eye-candy.

It does sound too good to be true but hope dies last anyway. Also, I'm prepared if it never happens.
 
hd footage of each realworld track? How do you know its gonna be in the disc and not downloadable?

Mr. Kazunori Yamauchi told me personally " he said, my son, there will be hd footage of each real world track" :)


hehehe


granted how he always talks about everything being all inclusive and "maybe" on downloadable stuff.....just a hunch
 
You misunderstood me. I'm not overestimating it at all. Not that I can realize anyway. I have a small hope that what was shown on the E3 trailer will be in the actual game. Small hope, that's all.

Uncharted 2 is a really impressive game, I'm not denying that. It's pushing the PS3 to it's limit, I'm not denying that either. What I'm telling you is, if the damage shown in the E3 trailer is actually in the final game, it will be a greater accomplishment than what Uncharted 2 ever dreamed of doing.

While I may be overestimating GT, it does look like you're underestimating it. Prologue is already pushing the RSX to it's limit, squeezing 4xMSAA at 60fps with unmatched car graphics in the gaming world nowadays. Including computer racing games. It doesn't get any more impressive than that. Sure the cell is definitely underused in Prologue, but that will (here's hoping it actually happens) change in the final game with that unbelievable damage engine. For that split second it will work it's magic to deliver unprecedented eye-candy.

It does sound too good to be true but hope dies last anyway. Also, I'm prepared if it never happens.

when is said you i meant most gt planet users. I am not underestimating the game i have lower expectations than you do:)
 
Mr. Kazunori Yamauchi told me personally " he said, my son, there will be hd footage of each real world track" :)


hehehe


granted how he always talks about everything being all inclusive and "maybe" on downloadable stuff.....just a hunch

well before gt4 he had told me "My child, gt4 is gonna have online" and before gt5p "Listen, I am sorry for the absence of online in gt4 but gt5p's online will be amazing with NO LAG at all"
I don't know what to believe anymore.
 
I think it'll probably be a 50gb blu-ray, and I really hope the required install size isn't too big (no more than 5-6 gb).
 
I am not pretending anything. I now a lot about ps3 cpu and gpu. How many times will i have to write this? You are overestimating gt5. You expect A LOT from it and you will be disapointed. PD will make the best driving sim,for that i'm certain. But you will be disapointed if you expect perfection. Uncharted 2 is the most amazing game I have ever played and the power required of the ps3 to simply run it is astonishing. If you expect that from GT5 then you kno nothing about PS3
And by the way Uncharted 2 has won many awards including game of the year

If you assert something, then yes, you will need to let everyone know what your qualifications are and/or provide us with qualifying sources. Not intended to sound jerky. I don't know the answer, but I do enjoy learning, and cannot possibly do so with what has been made available.
 
If you assert something, then yes, you will need to let everyone know what your qualifications are and/or provide us with qualifying sources. Not intended to sound jerky. I don't know the answer, but I do enjoy learning, and cannot possibly do so with what has been made available.

So you wanna know a LOT about ps3? I will give you a link: http://www.technobuffalo.com/
Be sure to check their console war between ps3 and xbox360
 
So you wanna know a LOT about ps3? I will give you a link: http://www.technobuffalo.com/
Be sure to check their console war between ps3 and xbox360
Heh, while I love technobuffalo's PS3/360 console war videos, they don't really provide you with the knowledge to determine whether Uncharted 2 or GT5P is crunching more numbers than the other.

The bottom line is that the PS3 has a finite amout of raw power. And both Naughty Dog and Polyphony Digital are going to try to get the most out of that finite power. No developer working on a major game is gonna say "Yeah, we're only going to use 2 of the Cell's SPEs because we simply don't need the others". They're going to get the game running, and if they find a way to optimize the game to use less of the CPU, they're going to put the freed power to some new use.

For an example, let's assume Uncharted 2 is a super-optimized game. It's using all of the CPU and there is very little room for any significant optimization. Now, let's assume Polyphony is hard at work on Gran Turismo 5. They're also using all the power that they can draw from the processor to push 16 cars in a race. But alas, they discover a much less processing-intensive way to do something that they do frequently, such as update the physics. A 16 car race which used to need all of the PS3's processing power now only demands half. Does Polyphony let that be that? Or do they put the newly freed processing power to another task? Of course they're going to put the freed power to use. Maybe they'll increase the number of cars per race, or perhaps they'll sprinkle more 3D spectators around the track, or a balanced combination of both.
 
.......Its a racing game. It doesn't require as much power and data as shooters and adventure games........

No matter what the game is the developer is always making trade offs and concessions due to hardware restictions. What trade offs are made depends on the type of game and the developers views.

In GT they try to make everything look as real as possible, they've still got a long way to go and they're going to need a lot more power and detail than the PS3 can provide so I don't know how you can make such claims.
 
So you wanna know a LOT about ps3? I will give you a link: http://www.technobuffalo.com/
Be sure to check their console war between ps3 and xbox360

Why is the burden of/for your proof on me. The link is to a nice site, but nonetheless, one that is an opinion site (something they freely admit in their "About Us"). I'm only asking for a way to trace your train of thought, not attempting to insult you or your claims.

Its a racing game. It doesn't require as much power and data as shooters and adventure games.

This idea was mentioned in the "Console Wars Round 5: Xbox 360 Vs. PS3 (GPU)" video, but they mentioned it in regard to textures and nothing more (I believe).

You could be completely correct, but there is no way of validating your claims.
 
Heh, while I love technobuffalo's PS3/360 console war videos, they don't really provide you with the knowledge to determine whether Uncharted 2 or GT5P is crunching more numbers than the other.

The bottom line is that the PS3 has a finite amout of raw power. And both Naughty Dog and Polyphony Digital are going to try to get the most out of that finite power. No developer working on a major game is gonna say "Yeah, we're only going to use 2 of the Cell's SPEs because we simply don't need the others". They're going to get the game running, and if they find a way to optimize the game to use less of the CPU, they're going to put the freed power to some new use.

For an example, let's assume Uncharted 2 is a super-optimized game. It's using all of the CPU and there is very little room for any significant optimization. Now, let's assume Polyphony is hard at work on Gran Turismo 5. They're also using all the power that they can draw from the processor to push 16 cars in a race. But alas, they discover a much less processing-intensive way to do something that they do frequently, such as update the physics. A 16 car race which used to need all of the PS3's processing power now only demands half. Does Polyphony let that be that? Or do they put the newly freed processing power to another task? Of course they're going to put the freed power to use. Maybe they'll increase the number of cars per race, or perhaps they'll sprinkle more 3D spectators around the track, or a balanced combination of both.

True. It's not about using all of it, it's all about using it the right way. I thought that was implied when I said maxing it though. As you said, I also doubt any big game developer let's free processing power just idle there.

Maxing out a processor is easy, what is hard is finding a way to do the same thing using less resources. As a crude example, I have a half-assed chess game developed by me as a university project that will max out nearly any processor because it was poorly made. A later version of it will work just fine since I took the time to structure it the right way so I could make the damn thread wait for a mouse click to run.

That's basically what developers mean when they say they are not using 100% of the processor. They know that they can optimize the code so they can put the processor to better use. I know it may sound strange. If they know it can be optimized, why not do it? I wish it was that easy. I know how hard it was to change my stupid chess game, I can't imagine how hard it would be to optimize a real game. It takes time and a great deal of effort. That's why engine optimizations are normally left to the next iteration of the game. When Naughty Dog says they are using 90% of it, they mean there's not much else they can do, even though something can be done.
 
I have been thinking about the size thing and here are some estimates I have. I think the cars are like 50 mb apiece and the track is 100. most likely the physics are 5 mb and the sounds are 15 mb. so here are my calculations. cars plus sounds - 1000x65=65 GB. Tracks (considering the 20 track thing which is highly unlikely) - 20x100=2 GB. Physics - 1000x5=5 GB. I would say a multilayer blu-ray is quite a possibility
 
I have been thinking about the size thing and here are some estimates I have. I think the cars are like 50 mb apiece and the track is 100. most likely the physics are 5 mb and the sounds are 15 mb. so here are my calculations. cars plus sounds - 1000x65=65 GB. Tracks (considering the 20 track thing which is highly unlikely) - 20x100=2 GB. Physics - 1000x5=5 GB. I would say a multilayer blu-ray is quite a possibility

I can't say I agree. 50MB for the car is too much. Even if you include the sounds, textures, etc... it shouldn't reach 50MB. If so, a dual-layered BD would nearly be filled by the cars alone. My guess is that a full car (including sounds, parameters for the physics engine, etc...) is about 15MB. That alone would be almost 15GB what's a lot already.
 
I have been thinking about the size thing and here are some estimates I have. I think the cars are like 50 mb apiece and the track is 100. most likely the physics are 5 mb and the sounds are 15 mb. so here are my calculations. cars plus sounds - 1000x65=65 GB. Tracks (considering the 20 track thing which is highly unlikely) - 20x100=2 GB. Physics - 1000x5=5 GB. I would say a multilayer blu-ray is quite a possibility

Only one physics engine is used, it uses the physical attributes of the car to do it's thing. I doubt the physical attributes of each car will take up 5mb
 
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