So... how's the AI?

[Tifosi]

So now that GT4's been out for a while, and many of you have spent countless hours with it... how good is the AI in this version? I keep hearing in various forums that it is exactly has in previous versions.

 

[Duke]

It's a little hard to search for "AI" since it's a two-letter string, but it shouldn't take much reading to find out.

 

[DuckRacer]

So now that GT4's been out for a while, and many of you have spent countless hours with it... how good is the AI in this version? I keep hearing in various forums that it is exactly has in previous versions.

The AI is crap. You accidentally slow down too soon for a corner, and if the AI is behind you, it will ram you into the grass/sand/wall. Or if the AI tries to pass you, it will also bump you, if not wreck you in the process.

Just my

.

Duck7892

 

[jdw]

So now that GT4's been out for a while, and many of you have spent countless hours with it... how good is the AI in this version? I keep hearing in various forums that it is exactly has in previous versions.

Umm... Uhhh... Well, it could be better!


It's better than previous versions but not by a whole lot. There's no rubberbanding. The AI cars are programmed to run their "line". Minor variations in the line are taken which are either a) random or b) on purpose to setup a pass.

The AI is pretty much blind. So if you're in their line (say if you're cutting inside the CPU to take a corner and have to come out a little wide), they'll nail you. Rarely will they avoid you. If you have to brake early into a turn, they'll nail you. If you're next to them trying to pass on the outside, they'll push you into the grass/sand as they're line comes to the edge of the track.

Pretty much the only time they'll specifically avoid you is on a straightaway. They'll either try to swerve around you or brake behind you. And then sometimes they'll just punt your car.

Just as the AI has variations in B-Spec mode, how "intelligent" the AI may depend on what license is necessary to enter a race.

 

[Nate14Gt]

The only improvement is that they don't smash into you from behind on a straightaway if they're faster than you. They still do sometimes, but not that often. Other than that they are totally mindless idiots. Basically the same as GT3. They'll smash you if you break early, they'll stay on the same driving line no matter what. The AI is terrible.

 

[ving]

just a tad better than gt3. they seem to be able to stay on the track for the most part but if they are tailing you coming into a corner and you brake too early you will be rammed.

no real complains tho.

 

[Moloch_horridus]

I think the AI has definitely improved over GT3. Everyone who has complained about being rear ended has also said that it happens when they brake too early - this is what happens irl - if some idiot on a racetrack suddenly chucks out the anchors for no good reason chances are pretty good they will at least get a tap on the bum [go out to your local freeway and if you would like to test this idea, just make sure you're wearing your seatbelt and are not in your favorite car]. Also irl have a look at what happens if someone makes a late braking manouver to take the inside line on a corner - there will often be 'rubbing'.

Fair enough the AI does not always react as a human would and drives like my grandmother but there is far too much complaining about it.

 

[gotoguy]

Actually I've determined that the AI see's each other but they don't see you. Several times I've seen them go into a corner side by side but I'f Im in the preferred line they will come down on me. Fortunatly the car's act like a battering ram and knocks them back up there. I've heard the Forza cars really do act like real drivers although I do not have an xbox so I have not tried it myself.

In a word the AI to me is the same as GT3 except they seem to see each other. AT LEAST!

Peace..

 

[ving]

nah gotoguy, the AI sometimes dont see eachother either. One race where I started at the back of the grid the cars in 2nd and third both wanted the same place on the road and basically just started ramming each other, then 4th place didnt have anywhere to go so he hit them and this was all at the start of the race... best pile-up i've seen in the game
I held back to watch it all unfold in front of me, it was great to watch

ive seen similar crashes with AI but none come close!

 

[Emohawk]

I think the AI is actually worse then GT3. I don't remember anyone ever pulling the PIT manouver on me in GT3, but now they're constantly trying to blindly occupy the same space as me. This is the reason I can't pass the R34 drafting mission, they keep steering into my car's back end and spinning me out. Interesting that plain stupidity could be so very good at screwing you over.

 

[Chris Criswell]

My answer to your question?

****ty.

EDIT: I saw someone elses post, and yeah. Forza's AI is wayyyyyy better. You can put the settings on EASY/MEDIUM/HARD.

Fun fun racing.

 

[DriftingDreamer]

AI for gt4 is the worse <_<....how is it suppose to be "realistic" if the COM doesnt even act as if your there? it'll just try to go through you....

 

[ZeratulSG]

The general consensus, as you can see, is that the AI is slightly better than GT3, but not much. I'd agree, though I find you CAN "drive around" the AI and make it work for you 90% of the time. A lot of the problems people have with the AI stem from poor driving/passing techniques, trying to be too bold on track and then getting all out of shape when the AI slams the door. Having said that though, they still have their annoying moments, like as someone else said coming out of a corner on the outside of an AI car, they will just run their line and push you into the grass.

Moloch_horridus: did you watch the Monaco GP? During one of the practice sessions, Montoya braked unexpectedly with 3 cars behind him, causing all of them to paint the Armco trying to avoid rear-ending him. GT4 AI will just rear-end you as you said, so early braking (or brake-testing as they refer to it) cannot be expected to succeed in GT (or really on track IRL).

 

[G.T]

The AI is bad. They very rarely move out of your way when your about to take a corner after a straight, so they ram you onto the grass and you crash . That's the most annoying thing about the AI I've found. It's like the AI nearly always follows the racing line and completely ignores you.

Forza has better AI.

 

[alech]

AI ?
What's AI ?

I don't think there's anything like that in Gt4 .

 

[zerob_cool]

I think the AI has definitely improved over GT3. Everyone who has complained about being rear ended has also said that it happens when they brake too early - this is what happens irl - if some idiot on a racetrack suddenly chucks out the anchors for no good reason chances are pretty good they will at least get a tap on the bum [go out to your local freeway and if you would like to test this idea, just make sure you're wearing your seatbelt and are not in your favorite car]. Also irl have a look at what happens if someone makes a late braking manouver to take the inside line on a corner - there will often be 'rubbing'.

Fair enough the AI does not always react as a human would and drives like my grandmother but there is far too much complaining about it.

Yeah, like the inncident in Monaco just passed due to early braking, nobody dodged/reacted fast enough to avoid that from happening!

Anyway, my MAIN beef isn't with the AI AS SUCH. Its with the implementation of the A-spec points! Instead of the game giving you these points, which serve no purpose whatsoever, the game should FORCE you to collect the point to, for example, 'pay' yourself into a certain race with.

So to enter the 'Boxer Spirit' race for example you NEED 200 A-spec points to do so, which you then lose after 'paying' to enter the race.

This would:

a) Force you to run fairer races, so a RACE actually takes place. If you watch any racing, the fight is always over who gets the racing line, and so the AI in GT4 serve this purpose well!

b) Increase the game's challenge, and thus amount of play time.

c) Provide a different basis to gain certain cars form, ie. after your first 1000 A-spec points, you gain a new car, and so on.

 

[Bad760]

I have found the AI to be quite frustrating.

Their braking points seem to vary depending on if they are in front or behind you, if they are in front they tend to brake early so you run up their rear or almost do and then the next lap when they are behind and you brake at your normal brake point they ram you up the rear........very frustrating

 

[Alfaholic]

Montoya braked just beyond a blind bend... the AI will rear end you if you brake sooner than they want you to on a clearly sighted straight, and even if they are miles behind you. To test this, select a slow car and enter it in a slow race with a long straight. Stay in last place. On the straight, stop the car, about halfway down, on the racing line. Then count how many AI cars avoid you, and how many rear end you (which will be one, because you will get punted into the scenery).

The AI will, conversely, brake or slow down to avoid you if you get in their way on the exit to a corner... If you dive past way too fast on the way into the corner, and miss your apex, and keep on the brakes until you are able to position yourself on the racing line on the exit, they will rarely repass you on the inside, and instead choose to slow down and follow you. Odd. Especially when one of the missions involves the precise maneuvre..manoover.....mannoeo.. technique that would see the AI regain his position.

The AI is not good - the focus has obviously been on the driving, not the racing.

 

[Chris Criswell]

But in real life, I watched some GT races and Bike races, I don't see any of them pulling the PIT maneuver, or ramming others off the road like it was nothing..

 

[Skant]

Before you complain too much about the AI, try playing multiplayer LAN. Trying to avoid contact with human players who randomly brake too early, wiggle all over the track, and generally race erratically may provide some insight on exactly what you're expecting the AI to be able to do.

You quickly find that the only way to avoid contact with an erratic/overaggressive/inexperienced driver is to surrender the road to him.

It is impossible to pass a driver who will not or can not play ball. Virtually any attempt to pass (or prevent a pass) will turn into a wreck that will take you with him. In RL, these kinds of drivers are handled in one of two ways. 1) Stay on his butt, apply pressure, make him lose his cool, and pass him when he drives off the track on his own. 2) Punt him.

There's a reason racing licenses are required in RL. And it's not to make sure the driver is fast enough. It's to make sure he knows how to race in close proximity to other cars, how to pass safely, and how to be passed safely.

Interestingly, if you use proper techniques, GT4's AI doesn't ram you off the road.

- Skant

PS: Expect to be punted in VR or RL if you try to pass on the outside on a turn. You have no right to pass on the outside, and the rules do not grant you 'racing room' in that case. The inside car is usually within its rights to force you out onto the grass if you try that. And that's exactly what the AI cars do.

 

[Duke]

There's actually an interview chat with Kazunori where he states the AI is kept numb on purpose, to suit a particular market. He didn't make it clear which market, and he may be blowing smoke, because everybody I know wishes they were better, no matter what age or continent they represent.

If you want to watch some AI pummelling, and experience it for yourself, run the European Schwarzwald Liga B race at Nurburgring. It's obviously a long hard track, and the AI stay bunched up most of the way around. They slam the bejeezus out of each other, and you if you're not careful.

 

[bigjoe]

I didn't notice how mindless the AI was until I started running the FI Championship. The only time the AI will attempt to pass any other AI car is during the first couple laps. Once they get their order set they just follow each other around for 60-70 laps evenly spaced like a string of pearls. That is true even if they are so close together on the track you could throw a blanket over all of them. They are not racing anymore they just become moving chicaines at that point.

 

[MasterGT]

Nobody has mentioned one change I've noticed: "Speedy Gonzales"

The AI now has one Speedy Gonzales that flies ahead of all of the other AI, turning many races into a duel between you and him.

On the other hand, GT4 still has the stupid GT3 AI rule of "if you get passed, slow down, since you already lost". There still seems to be a bit of the final lap speed-up rule, but I haven't really looked for it.

Duke: here is some more comment from Taku Imasaki, the SCEA official in charge of US/C regional interests of GT (US Producer for the Gran Turismo series), recorded in a PS forum on-line chat 21/04/05:

"Taku Imasaki: To MasterGT: The AI in this game is intentionally kept passive to satisfy all markets (Europe, Asia, US)... however I understand more and more US consumers play against human beings nowadays, and they like competition... I'll do my best to give the AIs in future versions more 'attitude'"

We'll see about that.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[jdw]

It is impossible to pass a driver who will not or can not play ball. Virtually any attempt to pass (or prevent a pass) will turn into a wreck that will take you with him. In RL, these kinds of drivers are handled in one of two ways. 1) Stay on his butt, apply pressure, make him lose his cool, and pass him when he drives off the track on his own. 2) Punt him.

In RL, wouldn't #2 get you fired due to the amount of $ you just cost your sponsor?

Interestingly, if you use proper techniques, GT4's AI doesn't ram you off the road.

Disagree. End of Mulsenne all the way to Indianapolis, End of 2nd longest straight on NY. 'Nuff said.

PS: Expect to be punted in VR or RL if you try to pass on the outside on a turn. You have no right to pass on the outside, and the rules do not grant you 'racing room' in that case. The inside car is usually within its rights to force you out onto the grass if you try that. And that's exactly what the AI cars do.

I don't know about that. The inside car is well within its rights to defend itself but... if that were true, wouldn't I be well within my rights if I was passing on the inside and got ahead by a nose at the exit to veer straight for the edge of the track taking my opponent with me and into the grass?

 

[Mr. horse]

There's actually an interview chat with Kazunori where he states the AI is kept numb on purpose, to suit a particular market.

that's a lame excuse they could put in different difficultysettings then (easy-normal-hard- extreme) and make the AI live up to it if they are concerned that people will loose interest if the AI are like real racing drivers and they don't stand a chance...

i noticed on many occasions that the AI only reacts to you if they are behind you and need to make a pass (wich they don't try often also), if you are side by side they don't see you and follow their programmed racing lines wich can be annoying on tracks with fast corners like nurburg when they slowly push you off out of ignorance...

but a GT5 with 20 opponents in a race, all intelligent is what i'm hoping for

 

[Skant]

In RL, wouldn't #2 get you fired due to the amount of $ you just cost your sponsor?

Not if you win.

Contact is a pretty funny thing in racing. Theoretically, it's always supposed to be avoided. But in practice, purposeful contact ends up being necessary from time to time. Race officials are pretty clearly aware of this. Sometimes a driver is just 'asking for it'. Anyone can simply refuse to be passed, and it just won't be possible to get around them without having an accident. That's not the way racing is supposed to work... you're allowed to defend your line, but you are not allowed to block. There's a difference.

Basically, if you swerve back and forth on a straightaway to keep another car behind you, you're saying to that driver that it will not be possible to pass you without smashing some fenders. They'll get the message loud and clear. And you'll find yourself in the grass at the next turn.

And the officials will be looking the other way at the time.

On the other hand... there are some racers who just plain play bumpercars. Punting other cars off the track isn't a last resort against an unreasonable driver, it's just how they race. For an example of this, watch Max Papis. I've never seen him engage in a duel for the lead near the end of the race that didn't end in him 'accidentally' punting the other car off the track. They call him 'Mad Max' for a reason. And the officials keep penalizing him and putting him on probation for it. He's not punting people who are asking for it, so the officials will not look the other way. In his mind, if he's losing the duel, the other guy deserves to eat grass.

I don't know about that. The inside car is well within its rights to defend itself but... if that were true, wouldn't I be well within my rights if I was passing on the inside and got ahead by a nose at the exit to veer straight for the edge of the track taking my opponent with me and into the grass?

Well, that's a little different. The lead car has been forced to the outside and now it's a duel. They're both obligated to give eachother room... and may do so for several turns as long they're staying along side eachother.

That is different from the trailing car come up from behind the lead car and trying to go around him on the outside. The car on the outside is there by choice, not because he was forced to the outside.

If you thought that all that could be subject to interpretation, you'd be entirely correct.

- Skant

 

[Mr. Man]

i wanted to know if anybody noticed that when you race b-spec the AI drivers dont race like there playing bumper cars as in an A-spec race. Also I've noticed that the higher the amount of points to an A-spec race the more the AI drivers will respond to race situations like RL drivers.

Plese give me your insight on that

 

[Alfaholic]

Skant, you've just made our point about the AI exactly. Their behaviour IRL would get them banned in anything but a destruction derby.

They don't behave like real life racers. they behave like scalelectrix cars being controlled by someone reading an adult magazine.

Even the AI in Fatal Racing (an ancient PC racing game where you got points for destroying other cars) had the good sense to avoid and avoidable collision if doing so would improve their track position. GT4's AI rarely manages even that.

BTW, I'm curious. What form of motor racing do you participate in where it is illegal to pass on the outside of a turn?

 

[Mr. horse]

Also I've noticed that the higher the amount of points to an A-spec race the more the AI drivers will respond to race situations like RL drivers.

maybe it's because the more A-spec points you have the harder the races and championships that you participate in, so the AI is tougher but i'd like to know that also does having more A-spec points make the AI better? i also heard that it was the B-spec points that made them better...

 

[Skant]

Skant, you've just made our point about the AI exactly. Their behaviour IRL would get them banned in anything but a destruction derby.

You're not listening. Please don't ignore 90% of what I said and then use the remaining 10% out of context to support your own argument. We have politicians for that, and they do the job well enough.

BTW, I'm curious. What form of motor racing do you participate in where it is illegal to pass on the outside of a turn?

I didn't say it was illegal. It's an inappropriate, unsafe, and ineffective way to attempt a pass in any form of road racing. And you're not obligated to be polite to a car which is out of position like that. Outside passes are fine on wide banked ovals since there's so much room, so they're common in oval racing like NASCAR.

Also I've noticed that the higher the amount of points to an A-spec race the more the AI drivers will respond to race situations like RL drivers.

That could be true. But I suspect it has more to do with the relative speeds. High A-spec points implies that you aren't going to be coming up on the AI cars so fast. Proper passing technique includes the notion of 'presenting' your car on the straightaway before the turn. If you are more than half way up the side of the lead car and on in the inside of the turn, the lead car is obligated to give you racing room and may not 'slam the door'. The AI does seem to respond to presenting your car and does give you racing room in that case.

If you have a much faster car, then it will be common to arrive next to the AI car suddenly while it's in the middle of negotiating the turn already. When the trailing car comes from way behind and goes to the inside of the lead car during the turn, it's called a 'dive bomb'. Dive bombs are unsafe and inappropriate. And they commonly turn into crashes in RL. The AI doesn't seem to give you any respect when you try this.

- Skant