So now we can "bribe our way to victory"? (PRICES REVEALED, SEE OP)

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Wolfe
It does sound like an annoyance -- I'll have to defer to those who have played GT5 longer than I have -- but the only thing I'm getting at is how odd it is for people to complain about being asked to drive/race in a game about driving/racing. What do they intend to do after getting the XP or credits, other than driving/racing some more? Taking photos maybe, but for that it would be better to advocate for all cars to be available in Arcade mode.
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It was originally considered a grind because the a-spec events payout and xp given after a race was very low .It would take an immense amount of time to reach level 40.But yea..for some reason, now people consider a grind to be the racing ... in a racing game.Which I find very weird.
 
iLex
Sorry, I misunderstood you then.
I thought you meant that you wanted to be able to buy the game stripped of A-spec and some other extra's for a lower price.
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Yeah I wouldn't mind such a thing, but I'm not asking for it. I'm saying to me that makes sense. Having to pay to get around the devs designing the game in such a way that you're forced to a certain way or give them more money, does not make sense to me.



It is not true that it can't exist
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For you perhaps, but you're overlooking the fact that not everyone plays for the same reason. Any kind of credit system is a punishment because credits don't exist. They don't even belong in games as far as I'm concerned.

Giving a reward for 'finished laps' x 'lap length' x Cr. is a way to reward people for any type of play (as long as they still drive cars around a track, but I can't imagine any play without it).
It is also possible to generate a bronze / silver / gold lap time for any track based on the characteristics of the chosen car and then reward players for meeting the requirements (per lap).
Sure the latter will be subject to both frustration and exploitation as the generated times will sometimes be too easy to meet and sometimes too hard, but at least it is a system that doesn't discriminate on the basis of how one plays the game.
I am sure there are many more systems that give a more rewarding experience no matter how you play the game.
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But what is the point of any of this? Why would I want it in the game at all?



Dmarc_Atl
It was originally considered a grind because the a-spec events payout and xp given after a race was very low .It would take an immense amount of time to reach level 40.But yea..for some reason, now people consider a grind to be the racing ... in a racing game.Which I find very weird.
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The way I see it, I get a racing game to race.

I don't get a racing game to be told I've spent $60 to select from 3 cars and do the Sunday cup. There is absolutely zero reason for me to have to progress through the game, so why should I do it?
 
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Wolfe
Why do others seem to equate simply playing the game to "grinding"? I agree a game should be fun, enjoyable, and challenging. If playing the game as intended provides none of those things, why exactly are you playing that game?
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Because running the same seasonal event (100k payout) 200 times to be able to afford a Ferrari P330 is taking the mick.

I'm a big fan of having progression in games, but you're talking hundreds of hours of playtime just to access the content that we paid for.

There needs to be a balance between unlocking everything right away, and requiring the player to progress in order to unlock content. GT5 was way too far towards the 'total grind' end of the scale. I don't remember doing any grinding in GT3, the content was unlocked as I progressed through the career mode. In GT5 you hit a wall where you need a few more million exp before you can compete in the next race, or in order to buy a car eligible for the historic car cup, you had to grind for days on end to be able to afford the car you needed. That is not fun, that is tiresome and repetitive.

When you combine this fact with the implementation of microtransactions, it's quite obvious that they have taken the game in a direction that serves to further line their pockets, not provide enjoyment for their gamers.
 
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dmcallis
Well, at least those who were complaining about the existence of standard cars have something new to replace that old routine...
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Standard cars were brought forward as a lesser of two evils, the other being a huge reduction in the number of cars in the game (Which Turn10 are getting flak for right now with Forza 5). They were overall, a positive addition to the game.

What is the positive aspect of microtransactions? Furthermore, what has it added to the game that they could not have added using other methods which don't screw the consumer out of more money? You imply that this is all a fuss about nothing, but you are wrong. Open your eyes, the game is making a major change which is negative to us as gamers and consumers.
 
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There are two different ways to look at these games. Car collecting or racing. The car collectors see the game as done when they have all the cars so they want it harder to get the cars so the game will last for them.

The racer sees the cars as tools that he needs to race. So he wants a good selection of cars at the start or he can't do what he got the game for, which is race. He winds up racing in the slow, cheap car classes and works his way up to the expensive fast classes. That's OK with me, but this charging money to get the fast cars sooner sends up a red flag. Just how long is it going to take to get the fast cars? GT5 obviously took too long. Will GT6 be worse?
 
Seismica
Standard cars were brought forward as a lesser of two evils, the other being a huge reduction in the number of cars in the game (Which Turn10 are getting flak for right now with Forza 5). There were overall, a positive addition to the game.

What is the positive aspect of microtransactions? Furthermore, what has it added to the game that they could not have added using other methods which don't screw the consumer out of more money? You imply that this is all a fuss about nothing, but you are wrong. Open your eyes, the game is making a major change which is negative to us as gamers and consumers.
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Except you're missing one important piece of info. We still have no idea how game changing these microtransactions are and we'll most likely find out about this when either a journalist has the steels to talk about it or we find out ourselves when playing the game. Outside of the game economy it doesn't change much and we don't even know if it actually affects the in-game economy.

So basically you're fussing out of nothing, atleast for now.
 
Buying the Fit left the player with 13,00 credits (out of 30,000 to start). If my calculations are any accurate, you'll get 41,000 credits at least for just completing the first 3 events; Sunday Cup (2 races), Amateur Cup (3 races) and Novice Championship (3 races). +4,500 credits for Coffee Break. +Unknown credits for winning the 3 Novice level series'. +Special events (goodwood hillclimb etc).

Doesn't look like it'll be a huge grind if you're able to get ~50,000 in just the tutorial.
 
@JuiceMcGoose -- It could be interpreted the other way. The car collectors want all of the cars (or all of the best cars, or their favorites) so if it takes a lot of time and effort to acquire them, it's a pain. The racers are playing the game to drive, so as long as they've got an eligible vehicle for the next race, and can access a handful of their favorites early on, they're happy with whatever the game throws at them.
Seismica
Because running the same seasonal event (100k payout) 200 times to be able to afford a Ferrari P330 is taking the mick...

There needs to be a balance between unlocking everything right away, and requiring the player to progress in order to unlock content...
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The bulk of my experience with GT5 was before Seasonals came around; pretty much all of the cars I like were cheap Standards (nothing like a Ferrari P330), so I never had an issue with lack of funds or XP; only waiting around for one of the cars I like to pop up in the UCD. One's preference in cars is a significant factor in how well the gameplay works out for you, I guess.

I agree on that balance. 👍
 
Wow the prices are crazy. I still want to buy some but wow that's nuts. See I don't really like playing A-spec. Now with the inclusion of online I only suffer through it to build my online garage. And when I say suffer, I mean suffer. There's hardly anything I really like in A-spec. I don't feel challenged and it feels repetitive and boring to me. I also don't have this will to feel like I need constant rewards like most of our youth do these days. So I really want to buy credits so I'm not wasting my time grinding. But wow that's so expensive when I start thinking about what I want in my online garage.
 
Well ~50k just from payouts in the Novice level with 3 little series'... Thats fine by me. You know youll get prize cars as well. You got the special events to look forward to for payouts, more coffee breaks, seasonal events, license tests, online etc. Don't see the need for paid credit dlc if Im honest.
 
CarBastard
http://kotaku.com/forza-5-economy-adjusting-after-angry-fan-feedback-1472836046/@matthardigree

Your move Sony.
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Yes, but did you actually read it? There's an admission that they screwed up but they aren't making any permanent changes it seems, just some temporary discounts and rewards until the end of December. The 50% discount on cars is over one single weekend!! I think Forza owners will be even more pi$$ed off at this as it looks more like throwing a few crumbs on the floor for you to pick up, than actually fixing the problem.
 
Now we await the European reviews and see if the game's economy has been changed for the good or bad. If the payouts haven't been screwed up and are decent, then once again the reactions were premature and it further reinforces the credits as an option.
 
Johnnypenso
Yes, but did you actually read it? There's an admission that they screwed up but they aren't making any permanent changes it seems, just some temporary discounts and rewards until the end of December. The 50% discount on cars is over one single weekend!! I think Forza owners will be even more pi$$ed off at this as it looks more like throwing a few crumbs on the floor for you to pick up, than actually fixing the problem.
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I did read it and you're right. My point is that this business model isn't going well with the gaming population and that MS/Sony will have to listen. After all, we're paying for a full-on game not a stupid Facebook F2pP app wheere everything is either HUGE grind or actual money. For the record, even the guys at AutoClubRevolution, an upcoming F2P game, had to change their business model to allow for more free content because things weren't going too well.

I have no problem with an usual GT grid, as long as it isn't like in GT5. GT4s model was, in my opinion, just perfect. They could repeat it even with the incredibly expensive cars we got right now and I wouldn't mind. What I would find bothersome, and here's hoping it doesn't actually happen, is if PD, like T10, modified the career mode to remove the smooth progression of past games just to steer you towards paying MORE actual money.
 
CarBastard
I did read it and you're right. My point is that this business model isn't going well with the gaming population and that MS/Sony will have to listen. After all, we're paying for a full-on game not a stupid Facebook F2pP app wheere everything is either HUGE grind or actual money. For the record, even the guys at AutoClubRevolution, an upcoming F2P game, had to change their business model to allow for more free content because things weren't going too well.

I have no problem with an usual GT grid, as long as it isn't like in GT5. GT4s model was, in my opinion, just perfect. They could repeat it even with the incredibly expensive cars we got right now and I wouldn't mind. What I would find bothersome, and here's hoping it doesn't actually happen, is if PD, like T10, modified the career mode to remove the smooth progression of past games just to steer you towards paying MORE actual money.
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I am just an interested bystander but I think Turn10 is making an epic mistake with their recent temporary changes. You have to promise though, that if our payouts are nerfed in GT6, especially the Seasonals, and it turns into a "Forzalike" grind to get credits and buy cars, you will lead the charge here on GTP to petition PD to fix the game economy...permanently not temporarily like T10!! I will of course, be right behind you!:cool:
 
trustjab
Buying the Fit left the player with 13,00 credits (out of 30,000 to start). If my calculations are any accurate, you'll get 41,000 credits at least for just completing the first 3 events; Sunday Cup (2 races), Amateur Cup (3 races) and Novice Championship (3 races). +4,500 credits for Coffee Break. +Unknown credits for winning the 3 Novice level series'. +Special events (goodwood hillclimb etc).

Doesn't look like it'll be a huge grind if you're able to get ~50,000 in just the tutorial.
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There will be huge grind later on though. When you start to get into the racing cars and such, the race rewards are a small fraction of the cars you put in (In contrast to the sunday cup, which usually gives out more than the car you purchased for it). Imagine that, you come top in a race series multiple times in a row and the prize reward doesn't even cover the cost of the car.

sparkytooth
Except you're missing one important piece of info. We still have no idea how game changing these microtransactions are and we'll most likely find out about this when either a journalist has the steels to talk about it or we find out ourselves when playing the game. Outside of the game economy it doesn't change much and we don't even know if it actually affects the in-game economy.

So basically you're fussing out of nothing, atleast for now.
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Except you are ignoring the fact that once microtransactions are in the game, future design decisions will be influenced by that factor. They will add new features purely to try to increase micropayment revenue. This is not good and needs to be stamped out before it becomes a big problem.
 
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Exorcet
The way I see it, I get a racing game to race.

I don't get a racing game to be told I've spent $60 to select from 3 cars and do the Sunday cup. There is absolutely zero reason for me to have to progress through the game, so why should I do it?
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The other keyword in racing game is "game", progression is key in a video game.Wanting more ( or less ) than that then you should look into hardcore sims.You can select from more cars in the Sunday cup, you can select from even more in arcade mode.Don't know what online is looking like.What do you mean by there is zero reasons for you to progress through a game?To be frank, what you want in a game is completely irrelevant to what a video game is and goes against the standard if i'm reading it correctly.

Seismica
Because running the same seasonal event (100k payout) 200 times to be able to afford a Ferrari P330 is taking the mick.
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What race are you doing?I can buy 5 of those in a day lol.I can get over a mill in under 10 minutes.I think the grind aspect regarding the money has went away when they implemented seasonals.

Wolfe
@JuiceMcGoose -- It could be interpreted the other way. The car collectors want all of the cars (or all of the best cars, or their favorites) so if it takes a lot of time and effort to acquire them, it's a pain.
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I don't understand this thinking at all.Its like that with literally every racing game I play,and every other game without cars i'm working to get and or accomplish something.What do you want, a disc with a crap load of cars and tracks and just have at it? That's like wanting to skip through an entire story based game just to watch the end because you can't bother playing through the story.I'm not saying its wrong to want that, but to expect that from people who make video games is a very unrealistic, because it goes against all rationale.
 
Dmarc_Atl
That's like wanting to skip through an entire story based game just to watch the end because you can't bother playing through the story.I'm not saying its wrong to want that, but to expect that from people who make video games is a very unrealistic, because it goes against all rationale.
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So the solution is to charge more for those who do? That's ridiculous.

There are so many other solutions to accomodate those people who want to unlock content earlier than don't involve lining Sony's pockets, and which don't open up the danger of game design decisions being influenced by a drive to increase revenue from microtransactions.

Infact, I already cited two solutions which they actively removed in GT5; car trading (Before the 1million limit) and game save sharing (Saves are now tied to the PSN account, which I discovered when I made my GTP tagged account).
 
Seismica
So the solution is to charge more for those who do? That's ridiculous.

There are so many other solutions to accomodate those people who want to unlock content earlier than don't involve lining Sony's pockets, and which don't open up the danger of game design decisions being influenced by a drive to increase revenue from microtransactions.

Infact, I already cited two solutions which they actively removed in GT5; car trading (Before the 1million limit) and game save sharing (Saves are now tied to the PSN account, which I discovered when I made my GTP tagged account).
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I'm reading my post and I don't see where I stated this was the solution. :confused:.I hate micro-transactions and I also think its a personal problem if someone doesn't have the time to complete or play through a game.I don't have the time either, but I don't expect the developers or publishers to care or adjust their game to suite my schedule ( though I admit it would be nice).This sort of self entitlement is a foreign concept to me.
 
I enjoy the feeling of struggling to earn credits to buy/upgrade my cars for the first few hours of the game. I've restarted GT4 countless times for that feeling, and even done things like refusing to use prize cars to enhance and extend it. After a certain point, it gets very old, and I'd just like access to cars to play with.

Not sure how I feel about buying money because I usually just cheat in that situation. Generally I think that it's at least a better alternative to the forced grinding in GT5. I'm somewhat hopeful that the save file will be unlocked and able to transfer to a game genie. GT5's wasn't at launch, however.
 
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Seismica
Standard cars were brought forward as a lesser of two evils, the other being a huge reduction in the number of cars in the game (Which Turn10 are getting flak for right now with Forza 5). There were overall, a positive addition to the game.

What is the positive aspect of microtransactions? Furthermore, what has it added to the game that they could not have added using other methods which don't screw the consumer out of more money? You imply that this is all a fuss about nothing, but you are wrong. Open your eyes, the game is making a major change which is negative to us as gamers and consumers.
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But that is speculation. We do not know. We do not have the game yet. We do not know the game economy beyond car prices (pretty much the same) and the payout for Sunday Cup. In GT5, the first race paid 4,100 for first (I looked) and depending upon how it pays (whether trustjab is right or not) either about 5200 (if it pays like GT5 seasonals) or 2680 if it pays just GOLD payout and not the other two. Like trustjab, I lean towards the former due to the terminology of Trophy position as with seasonals.

Until we have more info, either way is equally likely, and equally unknown.

I feel justified in my linking of this complaint with the old favorite one (perhaps excluding sounds...) until we do know one way or the other.

We'll know next week...
 
sparkytooth
Except you're missing one important piece of info. We still have no idea how game changing these microtransactions are and we'll most likely find out about this when either a journalist has the steels to talk about it or we find out ourselves when playing the game. Outside of the game economy it doesn't change much and we don't even know if it actually affects the in-game economy.

So basically you're fussing out of nothing, atleast for now.
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We have a really heavy ''nothing'' flying over our heads as customers then.
We may not know for sure yet in our case, but the problem it's real in many other games, the complaints have a solid base.
Don't judge them like usual pessimism that you see around this board.
Everyone of them is hoping to be wrong, just like i do. I'm sure about this, nobody ''wins'' if we're right.
This have the potential to be the worst thing ever happened to this serie.
 
trustjab
Well ~50k just from payouts in the Novice level with 3 little series'... Thats fine by me. You know youll get prize cars as well. You got the special events to look forward to for payouts, more coffee breaks, seasonal events, license tests, online etc. Don't see the need for paid credit dlc if Im honest.
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50k credits for what's probably an hour to an hour and a half of play for most people?

If that's indicative of the general payouts for time spent then it's not looking really good.

There's no guarantee that we'll get prize cars, or that special events and seasonals will pay out more than normal racing. We can hope, but weirder things have happened.
 
SlipZtrEm
If you're suggesting what I think you're suggesting (and given your previous history, it's not much of a stretch), it's certainly an interesting approach to deny PD money if you're such a fan.

👎
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I am not denying PD money, I won't buy in game credits with real money no matter what, how I got my credits in game ( grind or not ) won't matter to PD as I will still buy DLC, PD deserved the money when it comes to DLC :) Besides, if the credits systems is good, I won't have to resort to other means to amass more credits. You'd be surprised if someone ( not me, I never agree with them ) will release a tool to alter credits like in GT5 much sooner due to this microtransaction system :)
 

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