Sport modes biggest failing for the slow to average driver.

[Groundfish]

So, if the matchmaking were based solely on dr I doubt I would play. Just because if someone is a gamer not a racer and they achieve say dr b sr b by being aggressive I don’t wanna be matched with them if I work hard to be fair and avoid contact. I’d rather be 12th and clean than 4th and can’t hardly drive without getting bumped.
I wanted to gain dr after I first got into dr b and was slowly bleeding it all. One daily I had pole and got bounced around in an s lobby. I reacted angrily and impatiently and bashed my way forward reaching I think 3 at the end but with penalties down to 9. Boom sr b. After my first race ever when I went online I have been s so never knew what the rest was like.
I was fast in that car track combo so I kept racing. Got some wins and some more bumps in sr b. Said screw it I am racing for dr and tired of some participants from south of the equator being dirty. Very sad but maybe I made some less than fair passes and caused them to go off track. My bad.
After those races my dr graph was up and sr down. Rebuilding my sr took me just a bit ahead of where my rating was before I started after the week or so it took me to recover 99.
It wasn’t worth it. I’d rather just do my best and if I end up c s I end up c s.
If the game had no sr I wouldn’t play online except private with friends. Sr makes it for me because I have reasonable confidence if I maintain it I can have the best I could expect from a public online car race. Really wouldn’t mind if it they do some damage on races too. I am sure they will turn that on once in a while. There is a lot they have not even tried with the online yet.
I had some of my most fun races at c s but that was before the updates. No idea what the player base looks like for each level now.
For improvement of level I recommend studying tracks over cars and that’s all I will say. I got caught out by the unexpected level of detail and subtlety in the tracks. Only just realized this and my practice has changed because of this.
I think the basis is there for the game to be even better but we don’t have control of who else is playing. Part of the fun of it is never knowing where I will be on the grid.
To me it’s like anything else if you are a surfer you surf but the best waves aren’t there all the time, only once in a while. If you fish you know you don’t have a perfect trip every time. I still stand by my idea that it’s online racing and you enjoy it when you get it good. At least some system is in place to prevent chaos.

 

[rono_thomas]

So all of my entire one comment in this thread on the topic is making me look silly? I’d love to know how. I’d also like to see an example of me reading the thread out of context. OP has a problem with how racers are sorted and matched in the game. The reason it’s this way is because PD wants to keep clean racers with clean racers and dirty racers with other dirty racers, but OP doesn’t want to hear this and instead just wants everything catered to their needs. That’s not how things work though.

Yes its not for me to read the thread for you, had you, you would understand.

OP has already explained his circumstances take the time to read.

 

[soundtiger95]

Yes its not for me to read the thread for you, had you, you would understand.

OP has already explained his circumstances take the time to read.

I did read it. Again, you’ve yet to explain why or what I’ve said is wrong or indicative of me not reading what they’re saying. I know OP is a D rated driver. I know they don’t like how they are matched with A and S rated drivers. I also know they want to be matched with drivers who are closer to their rating. What else am I missing here?

 

[rono_thomas]

I did read it. Again, you’ve yet to explain why or what I’ve said is wrong or indicative of me not reading what they’re saying. I know OP is a D rated driver. I know they don’t like how they are matched with A and S rated drivers. I also know they want to be matched with drivers who are closer to their rating. What else am I missing here?

You replied to a post that was directly linked to the reason. Instead of searching the thread read the OP’s post history and then your comment of adapting and improving will become clear as to why its unsuitable and a silly remark.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I have a muscle wasting disability that leaves me with little to no muscle memory. I can't use a wheel for example. Sometimes I can't even swallow food. I'm at my limit, trust me.

I did read it. Again, you’ve yet to explain why or what I’ve said is wrong or indicative of me not reading what they’re saying. I know OP is a D rated driver. I know they don’t like how they are matched with A and S rated drivers. I also know they want to be matched with drivers who are closer to their rating. What else am I missing here

Since you are apparently too lazy to actually read the thread I linked the reason for the OP in my quote!
Do you feel so smug and smart now since according to you, you did read it?

 

[soundtiger95]

Since you are apparently too lazy to actually read the thread I linked the reason for the OP in my quote!
Do you feel so smug and smart now since according to you, you did read it?

I read the original post and addressed that in my first comment in this thread which I made shortly after OP made the comment you just linked. I admittedly did not see that, but I fail to see why his reasoning is enough to change an entire system, and I thought the person I was replying to was alluding to the main post in the thread at the beginning. It wouldn’t have been hard for them to just say which specific aspect instead of attacking.

I’m sorry that OP has issues like this, but the fact that some people have disabilities that affect their gaming shouldn’t be enough to change a system that does a fairly decent job at providing people with close and clean racing. There’s a reason why the system is the way it is. I also don’t believe a different system would help OP. If anything, they could very well end up in the same exact situation of not being able to compete since they are a clean driver but other D level drivers most likely aren’t, which means they’ll probably be taken out quite a bit.

I’m not acting smug or smart at all, I simply said that I read the main thread and addressed and I now admitted to not seeing the post in question. I’m not sure why you and the other person feel the need to attack.

You replied to a post that was directly linked to the reason. Instead of searching the thread read the OP’s post history and then your comment of adapting and improving will become clear as to why its unsuitable and a silly remark.

No, nothing was linked in the post I responded to. OP simply said it’ll “save you embarrassment” instead of just explaining their situation again to someone who happened to not see their other post, which would’ve helped me to understand more as well. But instead I assumed they were making excuses based on their original post that started this thread. That wouldn’t have been a hard thing to do.

After seeing the comment yes, adapting probably won’t help OP, I admit that. But I still fail to see why a system should be completely changed for a handful of people. It’s an unfortunate situation for sure and I feel for OP who clearly loves racing and wants to have fun, but changing to system to sort by DR isn’t going to help and is most likely just going to put them I’m the same situation they’re in now.

 

[rono_thomas]

I read the original post and addressed that in my first comment in this thread which I made shortly after OP made the comment you just linked. I admittedly did not see that, but I fail to see why his reasoning is enough to change an entire system, and I thought the person I was replying to was alluding to the main post in the thread at the beginning. It wouldn’t have been hard for them to just say which specific aspect instead of attacking.

I’m sorry that OP has issues like this, but the fact that some people have disabilities that affect their gaming shouldn’t be enough to change a system that does a fairly decent job at providing people with close and clean racing. There’s a reason why the system is the way it is. I also don’t believe a different system would help OP. If anything, they could very well end up in the same exact situation of not being able to compete since they are a clean driver but other D level drivers most likely aren’t, which means they’ll probably be taken out quite a bit.

I’m not acting smug or smart at all, I simply said that I read the main thread and addressed and I now admitted to not seeing the post in question. I’m not sure why you and the other person feel the need to attack.

It was the adapt and improve comment that made you look silly. Thats not an attack, just a fact.

Edit:
I dont disagree with thoughts entirely, if you were to read my comments from earlier on in the thread you would see. There have been many who have not agreed, but also many more than didn't get personal.

Its also good practice to read more of the thread when considering to reply to OP on page 4.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

OP has already explained his circumstances take the time to read.

I did read it. Again, you’ve yet to explain why or what I’ve said is wrong or indicative of me not reading what they’re saying.

No one is attacking, but you were given the cue to read the thread for why your comments to the OP about improving did not fit this situation but instead of doing so you responded that you had read the thread.

My answer to you was in response to either you had not read it or your reading comprehension needs work and yet again here you are responding wondering why people responded in the way they did?

The thread is more about the pitiful job that PD does with the matchmaking. That is a fact and if it takes changing the system to make it better so be it. The system does not work well as it is and nowhere have I seen the OP want the system changed to adapt to their situation, they only mentioned it to show improvement in their pace was unlikely.

After seeing the comment yes, adapting probably won’t help OP, I admit that. But I still fail to see why a system should be completely changed for a handful of people.

So again your comments focus not on the situation being discussed but again focus on changing a system that does not do what it was advertised originally to do and that would be create on line races of similar skilled racers on the same grid

Tell a DR D. ranked racer on a grid with a half dozen DR A and another half dozen DR B racers that is 15 seconds a lap off the pole time that the matching system works just fine!

I would tend to say that more than a handful of people would like to see improvements in the matching of the sport mode grids so regardless of their ranking so they are racing within a full grid of racers on the same approximate pace that they run.

 

[Lord of Tranz]

I read the original post and addressed that in my first comment in this thread which I made shortly after OP made the comment you just linked. I admittedly did not see that, but I fail to see why his reasoning is enough to change an entire system, and I thought the person I was replying to was alluding to the main post in the thread at the beginning. It wouldn’t have been hard for them to just say which specific aspect instead of attacking.

I’m sorry that OP has issues like this, but the fact that some people have disabilities that affect their gaming shouldn’t be enough to change a system that does a fairly decent job at providing people with close and clean racing. There’s a reason why the system is the way it is. I also don’t believe a different system would help OP. If anything, they could very well end up in the same exact situation of not being able to compete since they are a clean driver but other D level drivers most likely aren’t, which means they’ll probably be taken out quite a bit.

I’m not acting smug or smart at all, I simply said that I read the main thread and addressed and I now admitted to not seeing the post in question. I’m not sure why you and the other person feel the need to attack.



No, nothing was linked in the post I responded to. OP simply said it’ll “save you embarrassment” instead of just explaining their situation again to someone who happened to not see their other post, which would’ve helped me to understand more as well. But instead I assumed they were making excuses based on their original post that started this thread. That wouldn’t have been a hard thing to do.

After seeing the comment yes, adapting probably won’t help OP, I admit that. But I still fail to see why a system should be completely changed for a handful of people. It’s an unfortunate situation for sure and I feel for OP who clearly loves racing and wants to have fun, but changing to system to sort by DR isn’t going to help and is most likely just going to put them I’m the same situation they’re in now.

You do realise no-one's asking for the system to be changed but the broken system put forth to be fixed.

A driver gets a rating for a reason, to race those of similar skill. Simple and fair. But when drivers are being put in with those far better or worse, something went wrong.

If OP is a C grade, A grade, D grade. He should be racing like for like. If he improves, he moves up and is further challenged, fairly.

Now, if polyphony's game isn't popular enough to accommodate their system fairly, it loses credibility as an E-sport, no? So yes, maybe it might mean an overhaul and fully changing to be considered a fair game. That's on them for promising that.

Needs to be fair. Otherwise it becomes a mess and those looking for a fair race look elsewhere.

 

[soundtiger95]

It was the adapt and improve comment that made you look silly. Thats not an attack, just a fact.

Edit:
I dont disagree with thoughts entirely, if you were to read my comments from earlier on in the thread you would see. There have been many who have not agreed, but also many more than didn't get personal.

Its also good practice to read more of the thread when considering to reply to OP on page 4.

I never said that was the attack so I’d appreciate you not being disingenuous and saying I’m claiming things that I’m not. It’s calling me smug and saying I think I’m “smart” that are the attacks when I simply missed a comment that was easy to miss. I also don’t believe I got personal at all.

And there’s no reason to be pretentious like you’re being. OP could have easily mentioned this in their post that started the thread to give context for why they are struggling so much. It wasn’t until page three that they mentioned it and it was a short reply to someone, shortly before I made my post.

No one is attacking, but you were given the cue to read the thread for why your comments to the OP about improving did not fit this situation but instead of doing so you responded that you had read the thread.

By “reading the thread”, I assumed they meant the original post. Instead of playing games and giving me hints like it’s I Spy, they should have just been up front, I would have accepted that and take what I said back, and everything could have been avoided.

My answer to you was in response to either you had not read it or your reading comprehension needs work and yet again here you are responding wondering why people responded in the way they did?

Yeah, I guess I’m sorry for expecting people to simply explain something I clearly missed and made a mistake on, which I know admitted after someone finally pointed it out.

The thread is more about the pitiful job that PD does with the matchmaking. That is a fact and if it takes changing the system to make it better so be it. The system does not work well as it is and nowhere have I seen the OP want the system changed to adapt to their situation, they only mentioned it to show improvement in their pace was unlikely.

How is it a fact? It’s obvious that the system is created to put clean drivers with other clean drivers and dirty drivers with dirty drivers, no matter what they’re DR is. Unless I missed something (which we seen is VERY possible), it was never claimed by PD that DR would be the basis for matchmaking. From what I’ve seen, they have wanted to create close, clean and realistic racing situations, which sorting by SR would accomplish.

OP also says that they would like a system where D drivers are with D drivers, B with B, A with A, etc., so they are actually advocating for a change of the system.

So again your comments focus not on the situation being discussed but again focus on changing a system that does not do what it was advertised originally to do and that would be create on line races of similar skilled racers on the same grid

Can you please show me an example of PD claiming or advertising that their system would be based on driver ability/DR?

And again, my comments absoluty do focus on what OP posted in their first post. They are advocating for the system to be changed.

Tell a DR D. ranked racer on a grid with a half dozen DR A and another half dozen DR B racers that is 15 seconds a lap off the pole time that the matching system works just fine!

It’s not a 15 second gap, no reason to exaggerate. The gap is big enough enough that there’s no reason to.

Again, matchmaking is based on SR. Therefore, matchmaking is working based on how it was meant to. You can argue against that it should be that way, but it is working as intended. Like I said, I understand the frustration. But you’re going to be hurting the people who work hard to race clean and want to race against similar drivers in any other system.

I would tend to say that more than a handful of people would like to see improvements in the matching of the sport mode grids so regardless of their ranking they are racing within a full grid of racers on the same approximate pace that they run.

You do realise no-one's asking for the system to be changed but the broken system put forth to be fixed.

Except OP who is saying put D with D, C with C, etc. The system isn’t broken, it’s just based on things that you and others don’t like or agree with, which is fine.

A driver gets a rating for a reason, to race those of similar skill. Simple and fair. But when drivers are being put in with those far better or worse, something went wrong.

Nothing went wrong when the races are being based on SR and not DR. DR plays a role, but it’s no where near as important as SR.

If OP is a C grade, A grade, D grade. He should be racing like for like. If he improves, he moves up and is further challenged, fairly.

So what would you say to the people who would rather not have to deal with the dirty drivers who would be negatively affected by this system you’re advocating for?

Now, if polyphony's game isn't popular enough to accommodate their system fairly, it loses credibility as an E-sport, no? So yes, maybe it might mean an overhaul and fully changing to be considered a fair game. That's on them for promising that.

Why do they need to promise something when it was never their intention? There’s also no indication that the system is due to a lack of players. I’ve been a SR or S and A mostly and have been placed with drivers of similar SR rating. It’s clear that this was how to system was intended to work. There’s no reason to change or overhaul something that was intended to be a certain way and is working.

Needs to be fair. Otherwise it becomes a mess and those looking for a fair race look elsewhere.

Serious questions: a) why does it need to be fair? and b) what exactly is considered “fair”? You aren’t always going to win and you aren’t even always going to be up front. That’s part of racing. You can’t always expect to compete or even have a chance to.

 

[Lord of Tranz]

@soundtiger95

Good luck with that. You really haven't got a clue, lol.

I mean, a game where we race with BOP and driver ratings in an E-sport racing sim.

Yeah, and F1/TOCA and all don't have fair play, lol.

Go play GTA.

Fair would simply be a system working as intended. As it's clearly not by mismatching ratings, it needs addressing to be taken seriously by the players. Especially as competitions are being run.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It’s not a 15 second gap, no reason to exaggerate. The gap is big enough enough that there’s no reason to.

I have personally seen Sport Mode races where the gap from the pole position over the last place starter was over 30 seconds so 15 seconds is not an exaggeration at all.
That much of a gap is rare but a 10 -12 seconds a lap gap is much to frequent an occurrence to be considered unusual.

Yes SR ranking should be used as the first step but DR and lap times should also be a factor, just using SR gives the unbalanced races that have become so normal.

I just finished reading a post where a DR A ranked racer was bragging about winning from last place and posted the video. It showed only 2 A ranked racers in the field and the rest of the grid was B, C and D ranked racers so that is considered a major accomplishment being against lesser competition?

I am sure those are the kind of on line sport mode races PD envisioned as being good close competition that would attract even more racers to participate in the sport mode races.

There are reasons that sport mode racing is having fewer people racing on a regular basis!

 

[rono_thomas]

I never said that was the attack so I’d appreciate you not being disingenuous and saying I’m claiming things that I’m not.

You did, I’m not.

It’s calling me smug and saying I think I’m “smart” that are the attacks when I simply missed a comment that was easy to miss. I also don’t believe I got personal at all.

You didn’t suggest that was what you were replying to. Also why begin your original post with “No offense...” clearly you knew you were going to cause some.

And there’s no reason to be pretentious like you’re being

I’m not.

OP could have easily mentioned this in their post that started the thread to give context for why they are struggling so much. It wasn’t until page three that they mentioned it

Or you could have read it like you claimed to have.

shortly before I made my post.

So you really have no excuse for having not read it.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

The matchmaking is definitely not perfect, but the lack of players of during certain times of day is also a big factor. Can't matchmake if you haven't got anyone else to match with!

That said, I wonder why they don't just set the matchmaking based on qualifying times, or your fastest lap in the race (to avoid sandbaggers). Everyone in the room should be able to set laptimes within 1 second of each other. Job done.

 

[Shottah072]

You do realise no-one's asking for the system to be changed but the broken system put forth to be fixed.

A driver gets a rating for a reason, to race those of similar skill. Simple and fair. But when drivers are being put in with those far better or worse, something went wrong.

If OP is a C grade, A grade, D grade. He should be racing like for like. If he improves, he moves up and is further challenged, fairly.

Now, if polyphony's game isn't popular enough to accommodate their system fairly, it loses credibility as an E-sport, no? So yes, maybe it might mean an overhaul and fully changing to be considered a fair game. That's on them for promising that.

Needs to be fair. Otherwise it becomes a mess and those looking for a fair race look elsewhere.

'Fair' grids are a utopia, you can look elsewhere all you want, i dont think you will find it anywhere. Without enough same skilled players you can put in any system you like but you will never have same skilled grids with the same race craft and pace.

Now that doesnt make the game not fair. Everyone gets the same chances to improve his rating, same skilled grids or not.

I just finished reading a post where a DR A ranked racer was bragging about winning from last place and posted the video. It showed only 2 A ranked racers in the field and the rest of the grid was B, C and D ranked racers so that is considered a major accomplishment being against lesser competition?

The problem is as a A or A+ driver you will always have those grids because there are not enough players on that level. If they would match on DR i doubt that will be any different.

 

[rono_thomas]

Are PD fulfilling their blurb?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Can you please show me an example of PD claiming or advertising that their system would be based on driver ability/DR?

You ask and I will provide, the following is taken DIRECTLY from the GTS OFFICIAL SITE. Hard to contradict what the official site says about matchmaking in Sport mode.

Do you normally always make your statements without knowing whether your response or statement is correct or not?

To further clarify so you do not overlook it read the section on "Advanced Matchmaking"!

Anything else?


How to Enjoy Fair and Fun Online Racing: Introducing the 'Sport Mode' of Gran Turismo Sport

• 
  

There are many ways to enjoy Gran Turismo Sport, but the main stage for exciting racing is within its 'Sport Mode'. In the 'Sport Mode', you can enjoy online racing with other players according to a set of official regulations.

Here we will introduce two main races contained in this Mode:


Daily Races
These races can be called the mainstay of the 'Sport Mode'. A certain event is hosted every day for a set period of time, and is a great place to test your skill. You can enter the race as many times as you want to improve your record.

FIA Gran Turismo Championships
This is the main event of the 'Sport Mode', born from a partnership with the FIA (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile). Select your favourite brand and compete in the 'Manufacturer Series', or race in the 'Nations Cup' representing your home country. The championships are held in 3 regions, across Europe, America, and Asia. The top players of each region will be given an opportunity to participate in the World Final, to determine who is the best of the best.
The FIA Gran Turismo Championship does not just belong to the top players of the world. There will be live reports and broadcasts featuring their performances throughout the season. Discover your favorite driver and root for them as they compete for the top of the world.

The 'Sport Mode' contains many innovations in order to keep these races fair, and here we will explain some of its inner workings.

Advanced Match Making
To measure the skill of the players, we will be using two indexes, called the 'Driver Rating' (DR) and 'Sportsmanship Rating' (SR). DR indicates how fast a player is, and SR indicates how well-mannered they are during a race. 'Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes, so that everyone can enjoy good races.

 

[Shottah072]

View attachment 760062 View attachment 760063

Are PD fulfilling their blurb?

I think they are. They take the highest SR rated drivers and put them with the highest DR rated drivers at that SR level online at that time.

 

[rono_thomas]

I think they are. They take the highest SR rated drivers and put them with the highest DR rated driver online at that time.

Thats not how that reads.

Edit: Equal level of both indexes.

 

[Shottah072]

Thats not how that reads.

Why is that. It says it uses both indexes. The game does just that.

 

[rono_thomas]

Why is that. It says it uses both indexes. The game does just that.

Equal level of both indexes.

 

[Shottah072]

Equal level of both indexes.

Now thats not what it says.

"Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes, so that everyone can enjoy good races."

Again, the game does just that. First it matches on SR, then it matches on DR. So they are putting the closest matched drivers together based on those 2 indexes.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

'
The problem is as a A or A+ driver you will always have those grids because there are not enough players on that level. If they would match on DR i doubt that will be any different.

So basically you are saying that the DR B and lower ranked racers should be more than happy to sacrifice their chances of winning races and meeting in game accomplishment goals to fill the grids for higher level racers that are not able to fill their own grids?

I bet the B ranked players could get pretty ample grids large enough on their own to provide a good race without using the A and A+ people.

Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes,

Again, the game does just that. First it matches on SR, then it matches on DR. So they are putting the closest matched drivers together based on those 2 indexes.

The current matchmaking is nowhere near filling grids of EQUAL LEVEL players as promised and advertised.

The advertising does not say the "closest matched" it says "will match drivers of equal level together".
There is quite a difference in what you are trying to say or interpret the meaning to be versus what PD said as it advertised the game.
Pretty much in black and white says matching equal level would not include a DR A ranked player racing against a DR D ranked player in the same race.

 

[Shottah072]

So basically you are saying that the DR B and lower ranked racers should be more than happy to sacrifice their chances of winning races and meeting in game accomplishment goals to fill the grids for higher level racers that are not able to fill their own grids?

I bet the B ranked players could get pretty ample grids large enough on their own to provide a good race without using the A and A+ people.

You seem to fail to understand that without them filling the top grids they would only consist of 1-5 drivers. You really think that would be better ? I am not saying they should be happy about it. You think i am happy racing the lower ranked drivers ? I am not, surely i'd like to race a full grid of A+/A drivers, but that is never going to happen because they arent enough of them. So the lower drivers have to serve as filler or else the higher drivers wouldn't be able to race at all.

It is what it is, unless allot of people suddenly become sim racers or online racers we are just gonna have to deal with this.

The current matchmaking is nowhere near filling grids of EQUAL LEVEL players as promised and advertised.

The advertising does not say the "closest matched" it says "will match drivers of equal level together".
There is quite a difference in what you are trying to say or interpret the meaning to be versus what PD said as it advertised the game.
Pretty much in black and white says matching equal level would not include a DR A ranked player racing against a DR D ranked player in the same race.

Again the game does exactly like advertised. It matches players on equal SR, then on equal DR. These grids are a result of not enough players on equal SR/DR but the system works as advertised.

 

[05XR8]

View attachment 760062 View attachment 760063

Are PD fulfilling their blurb?

PD have fulfilled that dream. Only problem is, for every "Gordon Sheddon", there are two "Jason Platos".

 

[soundtiger95]

@soundtiger95

Good luck with that. You really haven't got a clue, lol.

I mean, a game where we race with BOP and driver ratings in an E-sport racing sim.

Yeah, and F1/TOCA and all don't have fair play, lol.

Go play GTA.

Fair would simply be a system working as intended. As it's clearly not by mismatching ratings, it needs addressing to be taken seriously by the players. Especially as competitions are being run.

Would you actually like to try to refute anything I’m saying instead of resorting to immature and personal attacks? I’ve been playing this game regularly for a few years now and have been a fan of racing even longer, I’ve been part of a couple of racing leagues, and have even participated in a few endurance races in that time. So I think it’s fair to say that I do, in fact, “have a clue” about this game and racing in general.

I have personally seen Sport Mode races where the gap from the pole position over the last place starter was over 30 seconds so 15 seconds is not an exaggeration at all.
That much of a gap is rare but a 10 -12 seconds a lap gap is much to frequent an occurrence to be considered unusual.

I can’t really remember seeing that big of a gap, not over 10 seconds for sure. But even if this is the case, we have no context to go by. How often are these people practicing? How often did they qualify or how many laps did they run? I’m not an incredible driver by any means but I can easily shave off anywhere from 3 to 7 seconds depending on the car and track from my first qualifying lap to my last. I’m willing to bet a lot of the people who are ranked lower and constantly starting in the back aren’t exactly putting in the time. I understand some people are slower than others and I know some people personally who work hard at improving, but the people racing in sport mode just aren’t that.

[QUOTES]Yes SR ranking should be used as the first step but DR and lap times should also be a factor, just using SR gives the unbalanced races that have become so normal.[/QUOTE]

They are a factor, that’s why you will never see one A driver and 10 D drivers in the same race. From what I’ve seen, you’ll have something like one of two S drivers, 4-8 A’s, a couple of B or C, and MAYBE an E. A lot of the time my races are all S, A, and B drivers and nothing less.

I just finished reading a post where a DR A ranked racer was bragging about winning from last place and posted the video. It showed only 2 A ranked racers in the field and the rest of the grid was B, C and D ranked racers so that is considered a major accomplishment being against lesser competition?

Who else do you want an A level driver matched up with? Not everyone is fast. There’s very few A level drivers and even fewer S level when compared to the player base. And why would that not be an accomplishment and why would you even care? Coming from the back is absolutely something to be proud of. No reason to diminish what someone else does.

I am sure those are the kind of on line sport mode races PD envisioned as being good close competition that would attract even more racers to participate in the sport mode races.

There are reasons that sport mode racing is having fewer people racing on a regular basis!

I don’t know, maybe I’m incredibly lucky but I’ve had no problems having close and fun races. I don’t win every time or even finish up front, but I have plenty of battles in the middle of the pack or even in the back. I’m curious to know what your idea of a close competition is. Is it always being in the mix for a win? Is it always finishing in the top five? If that’s the case, then I think people need to re-think what racing is all about.

View attachment 760062 View attachment 760063

Are PD fulfilling their blurb?

Uhhhh.....yes? I don’t see anything there that would say otherwise. They use both but heavily take into account SR for the sake of clean racing, but most races will have the majority of people within one or two ranks of each other. If you have a race with two A’s, four B’s, three C’s, and one E, and everyone has an SR of S or A, which is what I’ve primarily seen, the system seems to be working fine to me

You ask and I will provide, the following is taken DIRECTLY from the GTS OFFICIAL SITE. Hard to contradict what the official site says about matchmaking in Sport mode.

Do you normally always make your statements without knowing whether your response or statement is correct or not?

To further clarify so you do not overlook it read the section on "Advanced Matchmaking"!

Anything else?

Do you always act this condescending when you aren’t even close to being correct, and clearly can’t read what you’re using as evidence? The level of projection in this thread is simply astounding.

How to Enjoy Fair and Fun Online Racing: Introducing the 'Sport Mode' of Gran Turismo Sport

There are many ways to enjoy Gran Turismo Sport, but the main stage for exciting racing is within its 'Sport Mode'. In the 'Sport Mode', you can enjoy online racing with other players according to a set of official regulations.

Here we will introduce two main races contained in this Mode:


Daily Races
These races can be called the mainstay of the 'Sport Mode'. A certain event is hosted every day for a set period of time, and is a great place to test your skill. You can enter the race as many times as you want to improve your record.

FIA Gran Turismo Championships
This is the main event of the 'Sport Mode', born from a partnership with the FIA (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile). Select your favourite brand and compete in the 'Manufacturer Series', or race in the 'Nations Cup' representing your home country. The championships are held in 3 regions, across Europe, America, and Asia. The top players of each region will be given an opportunity to participate in the World Final, to determine who is the best of the best.
The FIA Gran Turismo Championship does not just belong to the top players of the world. There will be live reports and broadcasts featuring their performances throughout the season. Discover your favorite driver and root for them as they compete for the top of the world.

The 'Sport Mode' contains many innovations in order to keep these races fair, and here we will explain some of its inner workings.

Advanced Match Making
To measure the skill of the players, we will be using two indexes, called the 'Driver Rating' (DR) and 'Sportsmanship Rating' (SR). DR indicates how fast a player is, and SR indicates how well-mannered they are during a race. 'Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes, so that everyone can enjoy good races.

So.....they use both measures to sort and matchmake, which is actually right in line with what I’ve said in this thread. The majority of racers will be within the same DR and pretty much all will have the same SR and if not, there will be one level difference. How does this contradict anything I, saying again?

You did, I’m not.

Where did I do that?

You didn’t suggest that was what you were replying to. Also why begin your original post with “No offense...” clearly you knew you were going to cause some.

I never said I did, I said that I assumed others who were replying were suggesting that since I skimmed throguh the thread and wasn’t expecting OP to make a comment about an extremely unique situation.

I’m not.

But you are. Saying something like “Its also good practice to read more of the thread when considering to reply to OP on page 4“ is condensing and pretentious. There’s no reason to say “it’s good practice” when I made a mistake, which didn’t even affect my original post mind you, and admitted to it.

Or you could have read it like you claimed to have.

Serious question, are you sure YOU aren’t the one who’s struggling to read here? I already said I believed people were talking about the main post, not a random comment on page three or four. Saying “read the thread” to me means “read the topic at hand”, which means to me “read the main posts. Instead of just repeating what OP said a couple of pages before and avoiding this entire issue, someone decided to be uppity and make it into a bigger problem.

So you really have no excuse for having not read it.

Are you seriously suggesting that I’m supposed to read every single post in every single thread I come across in order to look for unique circumstances to consider? I’m not coming into a thread and expecting an OP to have a physical issue that prevents them from doing something and posting about it briefly four pages in after all of their other posts I saw before that on the first page or two were making arguements for why they think something should be changed. If I see their name later on, I’m going to assume they’re doing the same thing. Come on man, use some common sense here. You’re trying to vilify someone who happened to not read something very specific and admitted to the oversight only after you refused to just come out and tell me what was up right from the beginning. You decided to play a game of 20 questions or Clue or whatever other mystery game you can think of for whatever reason instead of just saying “OP already said he has a physical condition that prevents them from improving.” If you had said that, then everything would’ve been done and over with.

 

[rono_thomas]

Now thats not what it says.

"Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes, so that everyone can enjoy good races."

Again, the game does just that. First it matches on SR, then it matches on DR. So they are putting the closest matched drivers together based on those 2 indexes.

I am not claiming that the process is broken, yes the game tries to match, but because player participation is so low, the effectiveness of this equal matching is heavily compromised. So as it reads so everyone can enjoy good races, does it actually fulfil its blurb I would say no, as do you suggest,

It is what it is, unless allot of people suddenly become sim racers or online racers we are just gonna have to deal with this.

These grids are a result of not enough players on equal SR/DR

So Is PD's ambition of this wonderful harmonic equal playing field achievable, probably not.

the system seems to be working fine to me

The playing field is way under populated to be working fine. This is sport mode's biggest failing.

Where did I do that?

Right here

It wouldn’t have been hard for them to just say which specific aspect instead of attacking.

and

I’m not sure why you and the other person feel the need to attack.

If you felt the need to reply to the thread's OP then click reply to that post. However you replied to a different post altogether. If you happen to join a conversation making assumptions you know what they say about assume. No one is out to vilify you, you got something wrong and have since been attempting to move the embarrassment elsewhere. You could have just read and apologised, and the matter would have been over. You have no need to trawl through threads looking for pertinent information, the arrows in the reply boxes link you directly to the previous comment in that conversation, you have been a member a long time, you know the difference between reading the OP and reading the thread.

I’m going to assume they’re doing the same thing.

Don't do this.

Are you seriously suggesting that I’m supposed to read every single post in every single thread

No but its quite easy to follow the conversation backwards as I have explained.

 

[Lord of Tranz]

'Fair' grids are a utopia, you can look elsewhere all you want, i dont think you will find it anywhere. Without enough same skilled players you can put in any system you like but you will never have same skilled grids with the same race craft and pace.

Now that doesnt make the game not fair. Everyone gets the same chances to improve his rating, same skilled grids or not.

The problem is as a A or A+ driver you will always have those grids because there are not enough players on that level. If they would match on DR i doubt that will be any different.

Improve all you can or not, there's not much point if as you move up you are being paired with ranked players of different skill or safety ratings.

Polyphony anticipated this to work and announced what they do. If they can't do what it says on the tin, it's broken.

Nothing more to it. Fair might be the wrong word, balanced might be a better one. Everyone isn't being given the same chance if being paired with people rated higher/more dangerous drivers.

If they overestimated the playerbase and made the system so it's splits us too much, that's on them to address.

@soundtiger95.

Whatever dude. You missed too much and I'm not wasting my energy beyond this, enjoy.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

You seem to fail to understand that without them filling the top grids they would only consist of 1-5 drivers.

You seem to fail to understand that without them filling the top grids they would only consist of 1-5 drivers. You really think that would be better ? I am not saying they should be happy about it. You think i am happy racing the lower ranked drivers ? I am not, surely i'd like to race a full grid of A+/A drivers, but that is never going to happen because they arent enough of them. So the lower drivers have to serve as filler or else the higher drivers wouldn't be able to race at all.

So again, the lower ranked or slower players are here within the game to sacrifice their success in gaining top results or fulfilling objectives to get in game accomplishments to allow the faster racers to have a grid of more than a few players?

I would say that most people that bought the game and have been playing sport mode bought the game as it was advertised to supply EQUAL race grids, not equal grids if the faster people have enough racers to fill their grids, if not we will stick the slower players in the race to give the higher ranked players a full race grid and the lower ranked players can pick up whatever scraps the upper ranked players leave as far as finishing positions go!

And no I am not jealous of the faster players, it is amazing how fast some of them are just as a lower ranked player I want to race in races where the field is level pace wise from the front to the rear and when 90% of the races I enter have players ranked from the top of the rankings to the bottom of the rankings then the system is not doing as advertised which is and I quote "'Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes". end quote.

Again the game does exactly like advertised. It matches players on equal SR, then on equal DR. These grids are a result of not enough players on equal SR/DR but the system works as advertised

No matter how you try to twist it you cannot have and I quote again "'Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes". end quote. when you have drivers across all ranking levels competing within the same race.

This may be being done because of a lack of players but again that is not the issue or topic being discussed as what is being discussed here is if the game is delivering on the on line Sport mode race grids and races as it advertised to do and unless the grids are made up of EQUAL RANKED AND MATCHED COMPETITORS then the game has not delivered what was advertised and no amount of twisting words, meanings or giving excuses as to why changes that.

The definition of EQUAL is below to clarify exactly what equal means as its definition.
e·qual
ˈēkwəl/
adjective
adjective: equal
1.
being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value.

noun
noun: equal; plural noun: equals
1.
a person or thing considered to be the same as another in status or quality.

. I’m curious to know what your idea of a close competition is.

My idea would be race grids with no more than about 2.5 seconds from the pole sitter to the last place starter

If you have a race with two A’s, four B’s, three C’s, and one E, and everyone has an SR of S or A, which is what I’ve primarily seen, the system seems to be working fine to me

Your opinion which you are entitled, but it still does not match what the game advertised as being "'Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes".

Anytime you have races with A+ and A ranked players with B,C,D or even E ranked players on the same grid and racing in the same race how is that system working fine for that D or E ranked player starting at the rear of the field?

Do you always act this condescending when you aren’t even close to being correct, and clearly can’t read what you’re using as evidence? The level of projection in this thread is simply astounding.

Can you please show me an example of PD claiming or advertising that their system would be based on driver ability/DR?

Actually you are the one that was acting in a condescending manner wanting to be shown an "example of PD claiming or advertising that their system would be based on driver ability/DR which those were your words not mine.

So it actually took only a few minutes not only by myself but also another member as well to post such example from the official GTS web page within the thread which very clearly and plainly stated within the examples posted.

How is it a fact? It’s obvious that the system is created to put clean drivers with other clean drivers and dirty drivers with dirty drivers, no matter what they’re DR is

. If you have a race with two A’s, four B’s, three C’s, and one E

So.....they use both measures to sort and matchmake, which is actually right in line with what I’ve said in this thread. The majority of racers will be within the same DR and pretty much all will have the same SR and if not, there will be one level difference. How does this contradict anything I, saying again?

So again you are asking how what you say contradicts itself?

The first quote above says it matches no matter what the DR is.
The second quote says if you have a race with two A's, four B's. three C's and one E.
The third quote says the majority of racers will be within the same DR.
You seriously cannot see the direct contradictions in those three post and yet you ask how does this contradict anything I say?

I would say the above shows very well as you do a fine job of contradicting yourself on your own without any outside help from anyone else.

 

[klondike]

One easy solution that I think would work very well.

Lessen the grid size, and up the starting time intervals a litle bit, say 4 races / hourly.

A race with just 6-8 people would be much better.

You can get matched with people that are closer to your own rating.
You get more races each hour.
You get less carnage every race because its much more easy to avoid all the rammers / sunday drivers when there are less cars involved.

Its one thing I really dislike about these modern games. Developers really like to have big grids so they can advertise how much more improved their game is compared to last gen or other competitive games. But in reality all it does is making the experience very bad for anyone who likes to have a fair and clean racing.