And that's the problem. If they system worked properly, that's what it would be more and more.Six car grids is just sad.
Six car grids is just sad.
Since DR is not all that reliable, smaller grids only lead to less close races
This may be being done because of a lack of players but again that is not the issue or topic being discussed as what is being discussed here is if the game is delivering on the on line Sport mode race grids and races as it advertised to do and unless the grids are made up of EQUAL RANKED AND MATCHED COMPETITORS then the game has not delivered what was advertised and no amount of twisting words, meanings or giving excuses as to why changes that.
The lack of players IS the issue... in the weekends you will get much better grids, way better matched, why is that ? Because more players = more equal grids. To few players = no equal grids.
The system it self is fine.
And people wonder why many do not stick around for sport mode races?
If the game always seems to stack the deck against you and never gives you the chance to actually win how long are you going to settle for mid level results before you walk away.
Percentage wise very few are die hard serious sim racers playing the game and the majority play for fun and yes a chance to visit victory lane.
PD does a horrible job of incentivizing players in multiple ways.It's amazed me that this has never been addressed yet in any updates. I'm talking about the terrible mismatching of rankings. For example, i've been a D-S for a long time who sometimes reaches the dizzy heights of C-S. All too often though i get both rankings pushed down. Why? Because the system thinks it is fair to match a driver who is D rated with A and S rated drivers.
Im not interested in the mechanics of how or why this happens, im aware. What i can't understand is how it is still allowed to happen after so many updates. For example, ive put hours and hours in to qualifying trials for Bathurst and my absolute best is 2:06.750.
Now after that i never managed to dip below 2:07.2 ever again, it was a true one off. My peak of talent. My limit. My absolute best that cant be improved upon.
I was quite happy with that yet since gaining that time im constantly matched with A and S rated drivers who are at least 3 seconds a lap faster than me and will churn those times out constantly. Its not just Bathurst, it's every sport mode race since the game began. Rarely do i get a fair and equal grid and manage to get a fair race with equal drivers.
The game should match drivers equally. D with D, B with B and so forth. A D-S driver should only ever be matched with a grid of other D-S drivers as should A-S drivers only be mixed with A-S drivers and the same for every other combo too. Seriously, how hard can i be to implement a fair system?! It totally puts me off racing when you know you cant make any progress.
The lack of players IS the issue...
Not sure how this keeps going over people's heads.
If people can't take any other result than victory, they're playing the wrong game. In a grid of 12 the chance of winning from outside the top 5 is nearly non-existant if the starting order is even roughly proportionate to the drivers' pace.
And people wonder why many do not stick around for sport mode races?
If the game always seems to stack the deck against you and never gives you the chance to actually win how long are you going to settle for mid level results before you walk away.
When the game has over 5 million accounts and Sport Mode cannot draw enough players to fill a race grid with 20 equal matched players across an entire region then something is not working well for the player base in general as the participation rates is at such a low level.
And why is that when the game has over 5 million player accounts?
It is not over anyone's head to my knowledge but how is it possible or so difficult that people fail to recognize that the low numbers within Sport Mode issue may very well relate straight back to how the newer or lower ranked a player may be the more likely he or she is to being screwed by a ranking system that does not place the racer in a race that they have a chance to actually be competitive with a chance at all finishing positions in a race?
This is what is hard to understand as for the situation to be rectified then we need more players but lets not point about the reason being unequal racing grids could very well be one of the main causes while we watch the player base continue to shrink and grow smaller!
Even with an expanded SR rank the problems of matching DR will still persist, matching SR has never been a problem.Enough scapegoating upon outside factors why D drivers are stuck in D. Occam's razor - they lack the pace and proper racecraft. Its a very simple equation; do better than your peers and you will climb, do worse and you will drop. Perform at an average and you will remain there. Given OPs extensive sample size, he is right where he belongs (even if it may be difficult to stomach). I have presented a temporary solution that could alleviate the disparity in ranks on the grid due to lack of players who fits the pattern by expanding the SR rank. The larger amplitude will allow for a much more accurate representation of this rank and thus better matchmaking.
I hardly think the low numbers have anything to do "screwing" new or low ranked people. Not that I think it does screw those people anyway.
Enough scapegoating upon outside factors why D drivers are stuck in D. Occam's razor - they lack the pace and proper racecraft. Its a very simple equation; do better than your peers and you will climb, do worse and you will drop. Perform at an average and you will remain there. Given OPs extensive sample size, he is right where he belongs
This is definitely the case a lot of the time - some of the A races I've done this week have only had 9 or 10 entrants, so you inevitably end up with a wide spread of DR.
The lack of players IS the issue... in the weekends you will get much better grids, way better matched, why is that ? Because more players = more equal grids. To few players = no equal grids.
The system it self is fine.
When one has the potential to go from S to B or even C SR due to a couple of mayhem races and thus heavily skew his actual rank (lets presume a stable S), i would indeed call it a problem. These fluctuations is one of the reasons for a volatile matchmaking. Not to mention the fact that you can artifically max your SR (and quite fast too) by just repeatedly cruising at the back. This itself is a major concession on part of PD, at the very least with SR: S rank in mind. SR S should only be attainable by people who are capable of driving clean in traffic, with respectable pace to boot.Even with an expanded SR rank the problems of matching DR will still persist, matching SR has never been a problem.
The playing field is way under populated to be working fine. This is sport mode's biggest failing.
Right here
and
If you felt the need to reply to the thread's OP then click reply to that post. However you replied to a different post altogether. If you happen to join a conversation making assumptions you know what they say about assume. No one is out to vilify you, you got something wrong and have since been attempting to move the embarrassment elsewhere. You could have just read and apologised, and the matter would have been over. You have no need to trawl through threads looking for pertinent information, the arrows in the reply boxes link you directly to the previous comment in that conversation, you have been a member a long time, you know the difference between reading the OP and reading the thread.
Don't do this.[/QUOTE
Man, I can only hope one day I can be as amazing as you are and never ever make a mistake in my life.
No but its quite easy to follow the conversation backwards as I have explained.
You really aren’t getting it, are you? I made an assumption based on OP’s other replies. I wasn’t expecting a unique situation to pop up out of nowhere. I don’t know why you can’t accept that someone made a mistake and missed something, especially after they owned up to it.
My idea would be race grids with no more than about 2.5 seconds from the pole sitter to the last place starter
You do realize every race would have like six cars then, right? I’ve been 2-3 seconds behind leaders who are the same rank as me many times. A 2.5 second gap is very much within the same rank. That’s essentially nothing.
Your opinion which you are entitled, but it still does not match what the game advertised as being "'Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together using these indexes"
Anytime you have races with A+ and A ranked players with B,C,D or even E ranked players on the same grid and racing in the same race how is that system working fine for that D or E ranked player starting at the rear of the field?
Are you sure you’re reading the very thing you posted to support your statements? They use BOTH indexes, with a very clear bias toward SR due to the fact any other system would be a nightmare for people who want clean racing. The system is working because all of these players have the same exact SR rating and are close enough in DR to warrant racing together. Of course there’s going to be fillers in the back of the field, that’s just the nature of things. But you’re completely ignoring the fact that SR is heavily favored in the matchmaking but most racers are within one or two DR levels of each other, which is a perfectly fine gap. I’ve been at DR C and have gone toe to toe with A level drivers. It’s not some impossible feat.
Actually you are the one that was acting in a condescending manner wanting to be shown an "example of PD claiming or advertising that their system would be based on driver ability/DR which those were your words not mine.
So it actually took only a few minutes not only by myself but also another member as well to post such example from the official GTS web page within the thread which very clearly and plainly stated within the examples posted.
Incredible, I didn’t know asking for evidence of claims was considered condescending. Real nice.
Once again, the evidence you showed doesn’t support your claim at all that matchmaking will be based on DR. It literally said they use BOTH INDEXES. Why are you ignoring this?
So again you are asking how what you say contradicts itself?
The first quote above says it matches no matter what the DR is.
The second quote says if you have a race with two A's, four B's. three C's and one E.
The third quote says the majority of racers will be within the same DR.
You seriously cannot see the direct contradictions in those three post and yet you ask how does this contradict anything I say?
I would say the above shows very well as you do a fine job of contradicting yourself on your own without any outside help from anyone else.
How are these contradictions? All of these things can be true at the same time. Matchmaking is determined mostly by SR with a small input of DR, 9 our of 10 drivers on the grid will be within two levels of each other which is perfectly reasonable given they’re clean racers, and the fact that they’re within two levels shows they’re within range of competing. Being a C level driver and competing with an A isn’t some insurmountable goal.
These fluctuations is one of the reasons for a volatile matchmaking.
Do you have evidence of the player base being under populated enough for it to affect matchmaking?
I’m still waiting to see where my pretentious attitude is. These comments aren’t showing it at all. Again, back up your claims with evidence.
Since matchmaking is putting players of vastly different skill levels together, I’d say the burden of proof is on you to prove there is an adequate player base for Sport Mode !Do you have evidence of the player base being under populated enough for it to affect matchmaking? It’s amaazing how you and others are claiming this without even a shred of evidence to prove it.
I’m still waiting to see where my pretentious attitude is. These comments aren’t showing it at all. Again, back up your claims with evidence.
My goodness, the level of projection here is simply astounding. If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen that I did, in fact, reply to the main post earlier in the thread. Every post I had seen before and after that from OP we’re of them arguing in favor of changing the system, so I assumed they were doing the same. I wasn’t expecting them to leave a big piece of information out of their main post and only mention it randomly a few pages in where it’s buried. I also haven’t been trying to move embarrassment anywhere. Why do you keep claiming things that aren’t true? I literally admitted to missing the post and owned up to it multiple times. Are YOU not reading the thread? Don’t try to use the “the matter would have been over” line after I had just done the same to you, it comes off as projecting. The matter would have been over had you not acted arrogant and responded the way you did and instead just said what the situation was. It’s like if you were watching a movie and someone asked you what just happened because they zoned out for a second, and you respond with “are you watching the movie?” That’s not a cool thing to say at all and makes you look stuck up and self-righteous.
With how many resets there are nowadays I sometimes see D/S sitting on pole in front of A+/S. Since DR.B is quite a big range you often have reset A/S drivers in B/S. So actually the biggest A/S holes can be found in DR.B
DR.D drivers are often hard to predict where they will suddenly brake. DR.C is a strange breed, rarely seen. DR.B drivers tend to be more careful yet sometimes a bit too much causing unintentional pile ups, while many DR.A are over confident in their abilities resulting in a lot of contact. And then you have A+ that expects anything below to get out of their way or they will 'escort' them off the road to complain about blocking in the post race chat.
'Sports Mode' will match drivers of equal level together
The system it self is fine.
PD does a horrible job of incentivizing players in multiple ways.
Even something small like having class wins could be rewarding enough for many players. You finished as the top C driver in a race which includes B and A drivers? That counts as a win for you.
So matchmaking is broke? Thats what your saying?
So it works sometimes and then other times it doesn’t? This is because SR can be manipulated to represent an untrue, skewed SR. Thats what your saying?Broken? When did i say that. The matchmaking can be inconsistent however at certain times. Hence "volatile".
So it works sometimes and then other times it doesn’t? This is because SR can be manipulated to represent an untrue, skewed SR. Thats what your saying?
You are definitely saying matchmaking can be inconsistent. Which means sometimes its wrong, but its not broken?
So lets consider that GTS matches players prioritising SR. SR can frequently be wrongly attributed.
Lets treat this as a simple equation, (Occam’s Razor as you like to put it) if you put the wrong figures into an equation you get the wrong answers.
So which is it matchmaking is sometimes faulty but it works exactly as it should?
at certain times
them getting matched in "unjustly" manner
So which is it matchmaking is sometimes faulty but it works exactly as it should?
Since matchmaking is putting players of vastly different skill levels together, I’d say the burden of proof is on you to prove there is an adequate player base for Sport Mode !![]()