Sportsmanship...

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Ashthebash, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. AndreasR

    AndreasR

    Messages:
    544
    Location:
    Germany
    was at the same point during closed beta. But as there were no option as to continue the online races I found out that the filtering of clean and hasard drivers worked as time went by. So maybe you should all give the game a little more time (three or four weeks) and if you want to be a clean driver, the sportsmanship rating increases even when you drive at last place. If you want to be a fast driver who doesn´t care about sportsmanship then you should be so quick that no one can ram you otherwise you´ll have the problem with those ramming idiots. So my advice: don´t care about the podium unless your qualitime isn´t a sec faster than the rest and see how you can increase SR.

    Hope it was understandable.

    :cheers:
     
    GTP_Monkey likes this.
  2. RotorHed

    RotorHed

    Messages:
    157
    I just want to point a few things out,

    1)
    There seem to be some people who think the requirement to drive clean is on just the driver behind/trying to pass. In motor racing, that is inaccurate. If you are "defending" in an inappropriate way or even just slower and driving "erratically", you are potentially the one at fault if an overtaking car hits you. Motor racing rules aren't the same as driving on public roads.

    This webpage summarizes the rules quickly http://ignition.my/2012/09/20/snf-guide-to-overtaking-rules/

    Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I've seen plenty of examples of people I'm faster than who are deliberately driving in a dangerous way to make it difficult to overtake - this behavior is no better than those who try and dive bomb. Examples of this are weaving along a straight, diving across the track in the braking zone, crowding a passing car off track etc.


    2) The goal of the SR (just like it was in iRacing) is to make pick up races with strangers bearable to do. In that goal they succeed. It's impractical to have a human steward monitoring every race and the cost of developing a deep AI for that purpose is prohibitive. So here we are with a simple algorithmic way of adjudicating racing incidents.

    PD just ask everyone to avoid excessive contact, and provide SR ratings to all involved. Ultimately similar style drivers should end up in the same races. People who bump, crash and leave the track will be matched with those that do the same, those that are extremely cautious and will never attempt a pass for fear of SR degrade, will be matched with like minded "hot lappers".

    Personally, I've found the races on GTS to be pretty clean - equivalent to the entry level races in iRacing and I suspect a lot more people are playing GTS right now.


    3) Finally, perhaps we should all have a little bit of patience and understand that not everyone else on track is hellbent on destruction - much of what I've seen on GTS (which goes back to beta) isn't necessarily deliberate crashing, it's just red mist, over-optimism, inexperience or different driver ability arriving at the same bit of track.

    People miss braking points, they go for a gap that disappears, maybe they're just faster and get their car to a bit of track you didn't know it could go. Not every contact in GTS is down to griefers. The system is working well - I have yet to see a car coming the wrong way down the start/finish straight or someone immediately swerve at the start to try and block the road. When the T1 accidents happen (and those are a fact of life in every series), the ghosting system helps avoid a massive pileup.

    That's all the system was designed to do, make pick up racing playable - for that, it works as intended. If you want even "cleaner" racing, then join/create a user made league and then you can watch replays and hand out penalties in accordance with whatever rules you choose.
     
    tryin125, DigitalBaka, rx7ah and 10 others like this.
  3. Torqueflight

    Torqueflight

    Messages:
    195
    I think the penalty should be anautomatic slowdown, not just slow down if you want to and recurve the penalty at the end in your final time
     
    tryin125 and Drive_with_me like this.
  4. SnakeCL

    SnakeCL

    Messages:
    60
    I wish there was a way to reset qualifying times, so I could atleast hang out in the back and get my SR up, as opposed to getting molested in the first corner because I'm in the first lead pack to brake.
     
  5. Ckingrx7

    Ckingrx7

    Messages:
    37
    My thoughts on this are if you get a penalty you should be restricted to a minimum of 25mph or so until it's up. If you refuse to go that slow you automatically get pit boxed for the rest of the race,( a dq or black flag). If you bump someone while passing the game should tell you to go back to your former position or get a penalty, which if ignored again will result in a dq and pit box for whatever the remainder of the race is. So in other words even if you get punted off track those who value clean racing will still get penalties and have to slow down but will still be able to increase their ratings by continuing the full race where the others get all points and progress removed/rarings dropped. P cars definitely does the forced slow down penalty system which works well because it allows clean drivers to safely pass out of control nuts running off track.
     
    Drive_with_me and Johnnypenso like this.
  6. Nick Chronic

    Nick Chronic

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Netherlands
    its seems that the game`s SR rating cant see the differents between you getting smashed and pushed of the road or that you go ofroading by yourself . It happend to me a few times now on the Suzuka race getting rammed in last corner and being pushed offroad tanking the SR rating and getting time penalty for doing nothing wrong . Its frustrating , i hope they fix this mess .
     
    Drive_with_me likes this.
  7. soundtiger95

    soundtiger95

    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    United States
    I don’t think anyone is arguing that this isn’t how it works. It’s obvious to everyone that this is the system in place. However, that doesn’t mean it should be accepted. I was divebombed yesterday when I was on the racing line in turn one at Suzuka. Person behind me drove right into the right side of my car and I ended up getting a deduction to my SR. Thankfully I didn’t get a penalty nor did I get punted off the track, but the point remains that the system is broken right now.
     
    TenderLoins and dougiejones like this.
  8. Reds Deman

    Reds Deman

    Messages:
    45
    I would'nt say broken , it does need a refinement though .
    Be positive people it's early days .
     
    Dan Vincent and faisaldxb like this.
  9. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    Messages:
    67,468
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yet if you watch the Racing Etiquette videos, it's relatively obvious that it's working exactly as designed. PD wants people to not only avoid crashes in front of them, but behind them too.

    So we need to live with it if we want to play Sport Mode, or move on. It's likely that it'll eventually balance out - especially once all the gotta-catch-em-all Trophy hunters and day-1-must-buy kiddies have all gone away.
     
    Imari likes this.
  10. soundtiger95

    soundtiger95

    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    United States
    That makes no sense at all. You can’t avoid someone plowing into you from behind at full speed. There’s literally no way to avoid that. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Pull off to the side of the track and let the person fly by? Stop on the middle of the track? Time it so I stop early and let the person fly across the track like it’s a game of dodgeball? There’s nothing that can be done. Also, I watched the videos and I don’t recall anywhere where it says to avoid people crashing into you from behind, and that’s probably because it’s a ridiculous idea in the first place.

    This isn’t something that’s going to balance out. It’s a literal flaw in the system that multiple people have experienced. You should not be penalized for someone else having poor etiquette, bottom line. Being shoved off the track or divebombed shouldn’t result in you receiving a penalty. I’m not sure why you’re so adamant in defending the system when theres obvious problem should with it.
     
  11. Reds Deman

    Reds Deman

    Messages:
    45
    If anyone thinks GT Sport mode is bad racing you should try Driveclub against the AI , then you know what bad racing is .

    And for all those scientists that want to bring out driverless cars and wonder if it will work , Driveclub is your answer .
     
  12. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    Messages:
    67,468
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Watch the second video, as it's literally the last thing on it:
    I'm not. I'm stating what it is.

    I don't care whether it's great or terrible. This is the system. It seems to be what's intended. This is what we have to live with if we want to play Sport Mode, or we can move on.
     
    perja55, DigitalBaka and Imari like this.
  13. Tucciix

    Tucciix

    Messages:
    33
    I don't think it's broken in a way as there's only so much coding can do to choose who was in the wrong. I think longer races would be a better option so nobody thinks they need to go flat out everywhere and trying to squeeze into every gap possible only to find they just smashed 3 people. Longer races would mean everyone can be more cautious overtaking and not being "that guy"
     
    Stutopia likes this.
  14. Nick Chronic

    Nick Chronic

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Netherlands
    maybe a recover system should be made , so when getting hit from behind or side you get 15 or 20 seconds to recover without penalty
     
  15. iCreazil

    iCreazil

    Messages:
    3
    It needs changing. I was a green C and now I'm red E because everybody rams me and I lose SR for it for some reason. :/ it's really annoying 'cos I try to dodge everything I can. Now I'm gonna be with everyone who rams 'cos I've fallen so far. Going to be so hard to get back up.
     
  16. Dan Vincent

    Dan Vincent

    Messages:
    59
    Pull off the track and let everyone go bye

    Just race in the back until it improves

    Needs to be a smarter system. And I’m sure with time it will improve!

    That said I love it so far. I’m B rated and everyone is trying to race clean
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2017
  17. faisaldxb

    faisaldxb

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    United Arab Emirates
    Here's something I just discovered. If you get disconnected by the server before the race starts, your SR drops! It treats you like you're the one that quit I guess. Frustrating.
     
  18. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

    Messages:
    2,957
    Location:
    Australia
    Still has a bit of potential improvement (currently getting negative SR for getting turned into) but it is a good idea in principle. I did laugh at the introductory videos about sportsmanship and leaving racing room, and then showing pictures of Senna in reverence though.
     
    iainn likes this.
  19. RotorHed

    RotorHed

    Messages:
    157
    If this kind of thing is happening to you, it's likely your fault. If you drop from one SR down to the next, one clean race (as others suggest, drop to the back and safe lap to the end) will get you back up.

    If you can't race clean (even if you think you're always being hit by crazy people from behind) then you'll end up with other people who can't race clean.

    So what I'm saying is that over time you will find your level - if you find you're in races where you get hit a lot by other drivers, that is because that is the driver you are... There will be exceptional moments of course, but in general, the tendency will be to this end state. If you want to race in a group of drivers that never allow car contact, you have to drive that way yourself first - even if it means throwing races and lapping at the back.
     
  20. GTP_Monkey

    GTP_Monkey Premium

    Messages:
    3,024
    Location:
    England
    Thats utter BS

    Get rammed at least half a dozen times at first 2 corners demotes you more than the rewards for then staying at the back and trying to build up points .

    Any way its racing and who the bloody hell enjoys having to sit at the back in a race. Ive done 2 and both times ended up at the back trying to gain back points but you lose more in first corner than you can build up for rest of race and also when the kiddies go off they come back on track behind you and it starts again they just ramm you out the way.

    Ive always been a clean racer and this system is broken on every level, FFS were are supposed to be racing not playing snails at back
     
    Johnnypenso likes this.
  21. sid77

    sid77

    Messages:
    57
    Ok here is what I have been doing to improve rank. On launch day starting as D and C jumping into the brands hatch event was destruction derby stuff and was frustrating. Next I tried the speedway, urgh talk about ridiculous destruction derby stuff again. I then tried the Suzuka event and with it being a more powerful car and longer track I decided to stick on this track exclusively for my online thrills. I know Suzuka like the back of my hand and I have posted a low 53s lap time. I found this is enough to qualify in the top 6 easily under the D rating. This allowed me to get out in front right away from the rammers and race clean...with this I saw my driver rating steadily increase. You can track the progress to next level in my profile. Doing this over and over got me up to C rating for my DR. This is where I saw a massive change in driver level compared to D, which is where all the day one wannabes are racing. Right now I'm a slither off going to B rating DR where I am expecting the racing to get even cleaner.

    So focus more on DR to get out of class D, then when in class C post a decent lap time to get you up front then go racing and look to increase SR.
     
    DigitalBaka and GTP_Monkey like this.
  22. FazerT

    FazerT

    Messages:
    73
    This is exactly what is happening. It is an exploit. Once you are in clear air at the front, or close to the front, you can work off penalties, stay out of trouble, build SR by getting clean sectors. So easier to smash through the group and work off the penalty. Seems like something needs to be done to correct this.

    You should not be able to gain positions from errors.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     
  23. RotorHed

    RotorHed

    Messages:
    157
    And this is the point.

    If you cared about your SR more, you wouldn’t race and just lap at the back. But you care about your fun more, so you race (just like the people you call “Kiddies”) and that’s what gets you in situations where you get hit by others.

    There’s nothing wrong with that - that’s exactly as it was meant to work. You will continue to be in those kind of races unless you change the way you drive.

    If you’re happy with that situation, don’t worry about your SR and just race.
     
  24. Jonnyboi

    Jonnyboi

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Wow, everyone is so quick to judge, It's not even been a week yet...

    For me the system works well, these are the cards we're dealt with, so use them cards, don't moan how things could somehow be better. Unless we have real people over looking the race it won't be completely fair. The system gets you thinking more about your environment, yes there are people who still punt others off but over time they will slowly be filtered through and you'll be racing with like minded people, it's not going to take a few races and days to sort everyone into different categories

    I've resorted to going to the back of the field and have clean laps to improve mine quicker, and tbh I'm still enjoying it, had an amazing race with someone doing the exact same and e were racing to not be last! 5 laps of Suzuka and it was a blast, It made me question should I overtake now and be impatient or wait a few turns, learn were I'm faster and then set myself up. Also it make you think of whos behind you, if you think their a threat, try and position yourself out of the way so you don't get hit, The game even bloody mentions this....

    At least GT has a system which overtime will balance out. Forza has nothing, so everyrace is screwed, least theres hope and knowing it will get better along the way with GT.
     
    DigitalBaka, Akwaaba and Sander 001 like this.
  25. soundtiger95

    soundtiger95

    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    United States
    I’ll take your word for it and watch it again. I do remember them talking about weaving and blocking, but nothing about avoiding people running into you from behind. Personally, I don’t think the videos did a great job at explaining etiquette, but that’s besides the point.

    I’m still wondering what your point is here. Are you saying that because this is the system in place, we shouldn’t complain about it or want it done differently? Many people are having issues with it for very legitimate reasons.
     
    TenderLoins likes this.
  26. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    Messages:
    67,468
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Nope, I'm saying that this is the system in place and it seems to be exactly what's intended - it's not broken, or in need of fixing, as it's working precisely as it's intended to work.
     
    Imari likes this.
  27. SnakeCL

    SnakeCL

    Messages:
    60
    Can't really on Suzuka East. Everyone goes two-wide down the straight and into turn one (hurr) so if you pull to the right, game ghosts you if you slow down and hits with you penalties because someone inevitably runs straight through you.
     
  28. Shirrako

    Shirrako

    Messages:
    1,391
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's correct, sounds good on paper, but it's not that well designed when tested.
    Him hitting you off track will surely give the rammer an advantage, since you will take time to get back on track, and the penalty does not decrease when you're off-track (at least not for me), so it's a pretty unfair system that gives rammers the upper hand without a doubt, if it's a 1 on 1 race, the one who rams, will most likely win as the penalty will go away before the other gets back on track.
    Hope they continue to improve the system, it's unbearable at the moment.
     
    TenderLoins, zzz_pt and Johnnypenso like this.
  29. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

    Messages:
    2,166
    Location:
    Canada
    My question is simply this... is GT Sport still using the P2P system???

    I ask because I've been doing the Suzuka event pretty well exclusively, and I've noticed some pretty obvious lagging by some players. I'll admit it's no where as bad as it was in GT6 where there was the teleporting cars thing going on, but I've seen lag. In my mind that would make things even harder to try and avoid potential accidents.

    One situation was in a race where I had pole and got off to a decent lead. On the last lap I was approaching a backmarker, about to lap him, but saw in advance he was very erratic. I thought I was about to make a clean pass by him, and all of a sudden BOOM... 10 second penalty flashing on the screen. Needless to say I lost big time after that.

    Yes I was angry about it, but it really looked like it was lag induced and not intentional. That's just one situation where my rating dropped... I can't be alone experiencing this, can I?

    Cheers
     
    LordDrift likes this.
  30. Sander 001

    Sander 001

    Messages:
    1,951
    I've gotten rammed several times but I still got my SR rating to A. The system works.
     
    Imari and Dan Vincent like this.