Robin
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My bad, I somehow read it as every day this morning.
Star Trek - where next?
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My bad, I somehow read it as every day this morning.
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CodeRedR51
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Much better than the first trailer.
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Rumor Patrol: Star Trek TV will be set in the Prime Universe in between Star Trek VI and Star Trek Generations, a time span of 60-80 years. Two critical pieces of evidence in the First look trailer seems to support this:
For Analysis:
This is allegedly the Klingon moon that was destroyed in The Undiscovered Country that started the peace talks between the Federation and the Klingon empire in 2293 (stardate 9521.6)
This is the sun that Dr. Tolian Soran destroys in Star Trek Generations in the year 2371 (48632.4)
For Analysis:
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Yeah, but they're wrong:
This was TNG/DS9/STV's problem and Stargate's problem. You get a new bad guy who is impervious to your previous technology, then a new story arc where you discover ways to get round this and eventually defeat them. Occasionally it would be only a mild defeat and then they'd come back later on better and badder for a new threat.
This happened in TNG with The Borg - who were an awesome bad guy, to be fair - and then on through DS9 and STV with the Dominion and Species 8472. It happened in Stargate with the Goa'uld, giving way to the Replicators (again, top marks for villainy there), giving way to the half-Ascended Anubis and his Kull Warriors, giving way to the Ori. Hell, it happened with Buffy the Vampire Slayer (vampires, specific vampires, demons, the government, a chimeric cyborg, an angry witch, a demonic god and ending with the entire concept of evil). Each time the team of heroes encounters something their technology can't cope with and over the course of the series they learn new tactics to exploit the one weakness or new technologies, which they apply in a season-ending blowout where they defeat the latest bad guy.
Sometimes, time travel, alternate realities or resurrection played a part. It can't do that again.
Where Enterprise worked was in knowing that the difference in technology here (First Contact) and here (NCC-1701) was limited and whatever villains they encountered had to be beaten within these constraints. Where it didn't work was literally everywhere else, hurling in villains never encountered in any of the previous Star Trek canon or even ever referred to - occasionally breaking canon (see Captain Scott talking to the Holodeck in TNG: Relics, which tells him that there have been five Federation star ships called Enterprise, not the six that NX-01 would make; okay so it started out as a Starfleet ship before the United Federation of Planets formed, but it was still in commission when that happened), but largely just relying on time travel and interdimensional beings.
They had 205 years of unexplored continuity to work with, and still ballsed it up. And then with the new films, they had all the new continuity in the world and ballsed that up too!
Between Undiscovered Country (or rather the prologue of Generations) and Encounter at Farpoint there's 71 years of canon that has only very rarely been touched upon. It covers the Enterprise B from its ill-fated maiden voyage, the Enterprise C to its last voyage and another 12 years of virgin territory. The technologies are known (only really the Holodeck is a new feature across this time) and the enemies are known (Klingons, Romulans) and equivalent. Barring things like Section 31, which have always been only lightly brushed upon, it's known ground with solid foundations but nothing built on it. As I said in 2005:
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I would love to see some stuff with the Ent-B, but that might be because I'm a sucker for the look of the Excelsior Refit, and imagining beauty passes of that on screen makes me salivate.
While the period between TOS and TNG would be fantastic to see fleshed out, with all the old favourite races, there are a few issues that unfortunately time has affected. You can't use any of the favourite characters unless you recast them. I recently saw the TOS episode 'Errand of Mercy' again, and it was great to see Kor. It's also great that John Colicos, who played him, would continue the character into DS9. Now, you wouldn't be able to use a character like Kor unless you re-cast him and I don't know how I would feel about that.
I'd love to see more of the Romulans. I loved them in TNG (and had a crush on Commander Donatra) and I always thought they were very underused. Admittedly, I haven't actually watched ENTERPRISE completely so I don't know to what degree they may have appeared in that series, but for the most part the Romulans were not really heard of.
I don't know where this new show will stand in the timeline, but I don't mind it being based on a earlier timeline. On the flipside, a future timeline would also be interesting. I play Star Trek Online and for those of you who don't, you should see the Enterprise F! It's a beauty. However, some of the storylines in the game have been quite interesting and fun to be involved with, just so long as it doesnt go too over the top.
While the period between TOS and TNG would be fantastic to see fleshed out, with all the old favourite races, there are a few issues that unfortunately time has affected. You can't use any of the favourite characters unless you recast them. I recently saw the TOS episode 'Errand of Mercy' again, and it was great to see Kor. It's also great that John Colicos, who played him, would continue the character into DS9. Now, you wouldn't be able to use a character like Kor unless you re-cast him and I don't know how I would feel about that.
I'd love to see more of the Romulans. I loved them in TNG (and had a crush on Commander Donatra) and I always thought they were very underused. Admittedly, I haven't actually watched ENTERPRISE completely so I don't know to what degree they may have appeared in that series, but for the most part the Romulans were not really heard of.
I don't know where this new show will stand in the timeline, but I don't mind it being based on a earlier timeline. On the flipside, a future timeline would also be interesting. I play Star Trek Online and for those of you who don't, you should see the Enterprise F! It's a beauty. However, some of the storylines in the game have been quite interesting and fun to be involved with, just so long as it doesnt go too over the top.
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I agree with everything else, except that right there. Captain Scott is still wrong, but for the wrong reason that you mentioned. Captain Scott was specifically mentioning the designation NCC-1701, which at that point in Star Trek production history, there were five of them (the original, and the A-D). The Enterprise-D's destruction at the hands of Sorlan didn't happen yet, which made the statement true as the Enterprise-E wasn't even necessary. [Note: the fact that the Enterprise-E even exists at all should throw out most of what happens in TNG: All Good Things, and subsequently the build up to Star Trek Online (which had the Enterprise-F as the flagship of the federation) as William Riker used the Enterprise-D as his flagship when he is Admiral.]
The only remaining Enterprise that should be considered canon is the Enterprise-J, which did appear in ENT: Azati Prime, which bumps up the number of Enterprises bearing the NCC-1701 designation to 10, but only five of them existed when TNG: Relics was filmed and aired.
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There had been six once STE was retconned in: NX-01, NCC-1701 and the A to D series. He then says the registry number:
Though he also forgets in that episode that just a year previously - from his point of view - he'd seen Kirk's death in the incident with the Nexus aboard the B...
And All Good Things was a fiction created by Q...
Robin
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If they go with an in-between series sure it will be a love letter to fans, they will be able to shout out their TV and say “Oh so that’s how that happened!” or “I can’t wait till we see this!”.
However, there is something inherently dissatisfying with knowing what’s coming. You’re not going to be as shocked or as surprised. It becomes a fact ticking cannon verifying exercise to ensure it fits into the section of the timeline it has been dumped in.
As I’ve mentioned before there are too many franchises looking back at the moment and this is out of the networks fear of trying something new and having it flop. So many origin stories, retellings, reimagining and plans to resurrect franchises etc. Even when it came to the rebooted Star Trek movies they played it safe and went with the TOS theme.
Maybe it doesn’t have to be ever escalating aliens and the technology to defeat them, I always thought the enemy within would be a good premise and it was something touched upon in into darkness. Why can’t Starfleet being tearing itself apart? It’s managed to ideologically stay unified all these centuries, maybe it’s time it starts to fall? Running out of who to fight doesn’t have to be an issue if it’s written properly and more about the politics and the moral choices like Trek used to be about.
Either way personally I really want 25th century onwards Star Trek because it’s all new and the story can go anywhere without having to be confined to things yet to come apart from maybe a few small things like the Enterprise J. TNG was once in this position and it was very successful.
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Robin
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But those events (Braxton, USS Relativity etc) are sufficiently further into the future to allow an early 25th century series to go where it wants. Who cares what happens in the 29th-31th century! Maybe Starfleet nearly fell apart but obviously the series premise was to ensure that was stopped from happening.
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That I don't deny. However, the NX-01 did not bear the moniker the U.S.S. Enterprise, it was simply called Enterprise. We can logically assume that the NCC-1701 brethren were named after the US Navy aircraft carrier (If I recall correctly, there was a scene in Star Trek IV where they met with the real battleship) whereas, if we can draw from Star Trek Enterprise's opening sequence, the NX-01 was named after the H.M.S. Enterprise (spelled in the credits as Enterprize. Both are accepted spellings). What the computer was asking for was the registry number, mainly because (as you said) there were six ships named Enterprise in the database.
We could chalk that up to one or two things:
1. He was stuck in the transporter buffer for over eighty years.
2. Mr. Scott always considered the NCC-1701 (without any suffix) as "his ship." Heck, that same attitude carried over into the Abrams-verse.
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Which is what he asked for:
The computer's response that there have been five Federation ships by that name was correct until Star Trek Enterprise was retconned in, breaking the canon - as I said:
Which mixes the two premises - you get a new big bad that Star Fleet has to technologically advance to beat and an upper limit of canon tech of 29th Century time travel (we know it isn't much earlier, as Braxton's mission was to destroy Voyager before Voyager could destroy the Sol system; you'd think they'd make that a priority mission).
How much further can Star Trek's technology go than reprogrammed Borg nanoprobes, mobile sentient holograms and Transwarp that they have at the end of Voyager before it starts becoming sci-fantasy (or basically magic) rather than sci-fi?
It's the trap that Stargate fell into. They started out with the stargate itself, venturing through the wormhole week on week as the plucky humans with bullets against the parasite alien gods with high-powered technology. By the end they were the plucky humans using interstellar battleships enhanced by one set of deities and technology from the another set of deities against a third set of power-hungry and largely invulnerable deities who derived their power from magic and were killed off by using more magic. In the space of a decade. At the end of the series they needed time travel to save them. And this from a show that won high praise for its scientific fidelity in depictions of wormholes, black holes and supernovae...
Stargate gained a lot of credibility back on that front with the frankly stunning Stargate Universe - but despite the decent grounding in the Stargate universe and avoiding the Voyager pitfalls of completely stranding the extremely remote front line party, it was poorly-received, flopped and was canned after two seasons (along with the third Stargate film).
What Stargate Universe didn't have was a villain-a-season arc. DS9 didn't have it really in the first season and it nearly died on its arse as a result - thank heavens for Gul Dukat and the Dominion - and even then it relied on the magic of the Prophets and the P'ah Wraiths a little too often. Voyager had a villain-a-week, like TOS, and also nearly died on its arse. They started making an issue of the Kazon, but they sucked, so it needed the Hirogen and eventually The Borg to rescue it.
And this is the problem. Shows of this type need an escalating Big Bad season-long story arc to survive. People get bored of a villain a week without an arc. Trek, Gate, Buffy, Supernatural - even Warehouse 13 (MacPherson, Wells, Sykes, 'Brother Adrian' and Paracelsus), Person of Interest (HR, Root, Vigilance, the Brotherhood, Decima, Samaritan). It's the same in films - MCU is very popular and all, but the first villain was a Nazi and the next-but-one is an alien quasi-deity wielding magical relics from the Big Bang. The next one actually is a wizard who can change the fabric of reality...
Escalating Big Bads mean escalating technology, abilities or knowledge - and in the Star Trek universe once you've got beyond Voyager's level of technology you've only got magic or time travel left (and let's be fair, Voyager ended with an Admiral Janeway travelling back 40 years in time...). That means there's nowhere for Trek to go beyond Voyager's time and remain Trek - a show with just enough grounding in reality to make its technologies plausible enough that people are actually trying to make them now... This is, after all, what led to the awful reboot films - and the reason this thread was started 11 years ago.
The only place left is gaps in the canon, with defined technological start and end points, so that magic and time travel never need be invoked. Enterprise should have been good, but their insistence on introducing alien species that had never been chronicled before as major villains - the Xindi and the Sphere-builders - with technology and abilities that rivalled Q, along with time travel, was insane.
They need to try again, with established alien enemies in established gaps in the canon. The voyages of the Enterprise B and Enterprise C. Explaining the 12 year gap in Enterprises: A was commissioned as soon as 1701 was destroyed; A was in mothballs when the B took flight; C was only 3 years behind B; E was in the skies less than a year after D fell out of them; but between C being destroyed at Narendra and the D entering service there's a 12 year gap. The Stargazer - Picard's first command.
Personally, I'd love to seen more of the Breen - a reputedly phenomenally dangerous humanoid species well known across TNG/DS9/STV timelines, but with almost no background information.
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Not only am I looking forward to Star Trek Beyond (as I have little issues with the Kelvin Timeline), I am chomping at the bit to get a look at the new series.
If the rumors prove to be true and the show is set after Star Trek 6, I am going to be in love. I have a soft spot in my heart for the Nicholas Meyer way of doing things that began with The Wrath of Khan and ended with The Undiscovered Country.
👍
If the rumors prove to be true and the show is set after Star Trek 6, I am going to be in love. I have a soft spot in my heart for the Nicholas Meyer way of doing things that began with The Wrath of Khan and ended with The Undiscovered Country.
👍
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Good news, non-North Americans - Netflix will be carrying the show in 188 countries along with the previous 727 Star Trek episodes.
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/netflix-exclusive-international-new-star-trek-series-1201816219/
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/netflix-exclusive-international-new-star-trek-series-1201816219/
CBS Studios International CEO Armando Nunez
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Hmmm, Mr Robot has waited over three quarters of a year before the Universal Channel repeats hit this coming Thursday.
http://www.geektown.co.uk/tvairdates/mr-robot/
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Some serious Trek speak ahead..
One of the things that has always drawn to me Star Trek over various other science fiction movies and shows has been the USS Enterprise herself. In fact, this ship has been my favorite character of the franchise.
I always liked the original Matt Jefferies 60's design, and when the Refit happened to Constitution Class in ST01 TMP (designed by Andrew Probert), I was in awe. No ship in the series captured my heart like the one in the ST1-6 (and none since) so when the JJ-prise came out, I was torn.
I mean there were parts of the '09 version I was in love with (the primary hull), sections of the ship I was ok with (secondary hull) and facets of her that I didn't really like at all (the nacelles). Several years later though, I have actually grown quite attached to the new version.
I have always been fascinated with the construction and design of starships, so I was disappointed by not being able to locate some type of deck plans on the new ship. This awesome drawing has finally helped scratch that itch.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/movies/a21522/star-trek-beyond-uss-enterprise-cutaway/
If you are like me, and the JJ-prise has never won you over, that cutaway may change your mind. After I discovered this, I re-watched ST09 and STID just to see the ship with a new perspective.
One of the things that has always drawn to me Star Trek over various other science fiction movies and shows has been the USS Enterprise herself. In fact, this ship has been my favorite character of the franchise.
I always liked the original Matt Jefferies 60's design, and when the Refit happened to Constitution Class in ST01 TMP (designed by Andrew Probert), I was in awe. No ship in the series captured my heart like the one in the ST1-6 (and none since) so when the JJ-prise came out, I was torn.
I mean there were parts of the '09 version I was in love with (the primary hull), sections of the ship I was ok with (secondary hull) and facets of her that I didn't really like at all (the nacelles). Several years later though, I have actually grown quite attached to the new version.
I have always been fascinated with the construction and design of starships, so I was disappointed by not being able to locate some type of deck plans on the new ship. This awesome drawing has finally helped scratch that itch.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/movies/a21522/star-trek-beyond-uss-enterprise-cutaway/
If you are like me, and the JJ-prise has never won you over, that cutaway may change your mind. After I discovered this, I re-watched ST09 and STID just to see the ship with a new perspective.
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The show will eventually hit Netflix in the US and Canada too. It will be after each season finishes up on All Access first.
http://www.popsci.com/netflix-will-stream-new-star-trek-series-worldwide
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Early reviews for Star Trek Beyond are in, and despite the confused early material, the reviews are very positive.
Robin
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I always avoid all information before a ST films release because I don't want any spoilers, I haven't seen the new one yet. I had my reservations about Pegg's Star Trek and I am glad to hear that it is being well received by the critics. That first trailer was seriously worrying! as was the reduced budget.
My favourite was definitely the 1701-A, I loved the blue Aztecing. It and the Excelsior were 80's tastic. I was slightly disappointed when they didn't refit the Enterprise in In To Darkness in a similar fashion but with the alternate universe style seeing as it was a reimagining of the same story.
I like the JJprise, the only thing is the scale is stupid and I think it was just a cop out by the CGI team who didn't really have a size so made one up after the film. Being as big as the D is silly for the era and they explained it away as Starfleet needing to increase ship size after the Narada incident. The Budweiser engineering room is also disappointing and makes no sense as the rest of the ships interior is so sleek. However the exterior has more than made up for it and it's a great design. It's very Hot Rod inspired and I love the buzzards.
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If you hate the song... steer clear of the movie. 
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Have seen it. Immensely watchable and entertaining. Bit light on the character development, but this is already the third film in the series... most of the characters are in the middle of their life arcs, and the majors, at least, do get deep personal philosophical conundrums to deal with.
Lots of Trekkie in-jokes there, got quite a few giggles out of the first thirty minutes of the film. Lots of action, despite supposedly slashed budget.
Feels safe to say that, like Star Wars TFA, it treads some familiar ground. I mean:
not so spoilery, this info is in most online synopses
That said, it moves quickly, is rather watchable, is funny and is very comfortable with itself... the cast have been together for quite a while and it shows in the chemistry.
Don't expect the movie, plot-wise, to make much more sense than previous Treks. But like SW:TFA, it keeps moving briskly Though that discussion is better saved for when more people have watched it.
Still, much better than the last movie, even if the pathos isn't as deep. Give it an 8.5/10.
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Have seen it. Immensely watchable and entertaining. Bit light on the character development, but this is already the third film in the series... most of the characters are in the middle of their life arcs, and the majors, at least, do get deep personal philosophical conundrums to deal with.
Lots of Trekkie in-jokes there, got quite a few giggles out of the first thirty minutes of the film. Lots of action, despite supposedly slashed budget.
Feels safe to say that, like Star Wars TFA, it treads some familiar ground. I mean:
not so spoilery, this info is in most online synopses
...this isn't the first time we've seen the Enterprise crash-land on an alien planet. This isn't the first time we've seen the crew split up and reliant on their own wits. And this isn't the first time that something from the Federation's past has come to haunt them. And this isn't the first time that we've had a warlord with a mega-weapon featured in Trek movies.
That said, it moves quickly, is rather watchable, is funny and is very comfortable with itself... the cast have been together for quite a while and it shows in the chemistry.
Don't expect the movie, plot-wise, to make much more sense than previous Treks. But like SW:TFA, it keeps moving briskly Though that discussion is better saved for when more people have watched it.
Still, much better than the last movie, even if the pathos isn't as deep. Give it an 8.5/10.
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