STAR WARS General Discussion | Warning: Possible SPOILERS!Movies

[niky]

Spoiler

They brought him back in the Clone Wars animated series which is considered canon. Explanation HERE, 3rd paragraph down.

Spoiler

I know it's canon. Doesn't mean it isn't inherently silly.

Granted, a lightsaber wound is self cauterizing, but you've lost the entire lower half of your body. Spooky Force powers or not, Darth Maul has no intestines or kidneys, and possibly only half a liver. Building cybernetic legs out of scrap may take care of the leg part, but unless Darth is trained in cybernetic medical repair, he'd be hard pressed to keep from dying due to blood poisoning and a general lack of the ability to digest whatever he eats.

If the Dark Side can keep you alive through all that, there's no reason for any Sith to die. Ever.

-

Then again, you have General Grievious...

-

Which brings up a question... honestly... who couldn't they bring back to life in Star Wars?

 

[Com Fox]

Man I can't believe I have yet to post on this thread.

As some of you know, I have opinions that would make the average Star Wars fan try to kill me (I prefer the Prequels over the Original and I think Episode III is the best movie while I actually do love Episode I). So I went to Episode VII with interesting thoughts and predictions, as maybe I'll find this better than the Prequels, worst than the Original or in between.

Here is my quick review.

Spoiler: Sort of Review

Great movie, though disappointed (and I had nearly 0 hype for this as I don't like to hype myself as it usually leads to disappointment)

I enjoyed the new Characters and it was nice to see than Ren wasn't a Darth Vader clone as he had personality traits that separated him from Vader. Finn was really interesting at the beginning and I really liked Rey from the very beginning, being one of my favourite characters in the franchise, though I found the name ironic because the sound of "Rei" I'm used comes from a Psychotic, Manipulative character .

The issue comes with the Plot Structure and Elements, they played way too safe, and I mean WAY too safe. It felt way too similar to Episode IV and I'm sure it is what they intended and I'm not ok with it, I wanted to walk with a few pieces from other Star Wars but I wanted to see a new story at the same time, something I reckon Episode I did (though it was a Prequel so it has an advantage), when it was doing something new, I was truly engaged, when it wasn't (which was the majority of the movie) I was totally out of it and thinking to myself how many elements are they taking from Episode IV.

I would say that this movie ranks 6th on my Star Wars list, ahead of Episode VI and behind Episode II (I started liking Episode II, sue me)

 

[CodeRedR51]

Man I can't believe I have yet to post on this thread.

As some of you know, I have opinions that would make the average Star Wars fan try to kill me (I prefer the Prequels over the Original and I think Episode III is the best movie while I actually do love Episode I). So I went to Episode VII with interesting thoughts and predictions, as maybe I'll find this better than the Prequels, worst than the Original or in between.

Here is my quick review.

Spoiler: Sort of Review

Great movie, though disappointed (and I had nearly 0 hype for this as I don't like to hype myself as it usually leads to disappointment)

I enjoyed the new Characters and it was nice to see than Ren wasn't a Darth Vader clone as he had personality traits that separated him from Vader. Finn was really interesting at the beginning and I really liked Rey from the very beginning, being one of my favourite characters in the franchise, though I found the name ironic because the sound of "Rei" I'm used comes from a Psychotic, Manipulative character .

The issue comes with the Plot Structure and Elements, they played way too safe, and I mean WAY too safe. It felt way too similar to Episode IV and I'm sure it is what they intended and I'm not ok with it, I wanted to walk with a few pieces from other Star Wars but I wanted to see a new story at the same time, something I reckon Episode I did (though it was a Prequel so it has an advantage), when it was doing something new, I was truly engaged, when it wasn't (which was the majority of the movie) I was totally out of it and thinking to myself how many elements are they taking from Episode IV.

I would say that this movie ranks 6th on my Star Wars list, ahead of Episode VI and behind Episode II (I started liking Episode II, sue me)

Spoiler

Having seen all of the Star Wars movies multiple times, the only spot in Episode VII where I rolled my eyes for them copying something from the old movies was the X-Wings down the corridor scene. Everything else, plot copying never even crossed my mind. I don't understand why people are so stuck on it. This photo has started to make the rounds on facebook:

And I love it.

 

[Terronium-12]

All good points about my concern. I guess in the end I'm still a bit cautious after the prequels.

Man I can't believe I have yet to post on this thread.

As some of you know, I have opinions that would make the average Star Wars fan try to kill me (I prefer the Prequels over the Original and I think Episode III is the best movie while I actually do love Episode I). So I went to Episode VII with interesting thoughts and predictions, as maybe I'll find this better than the Prequels, worst than the Original or in between.

Here is my quick review.

Spoiler: Sort of Review

Great movie, though disappointed (and I had nearly 0 hype for this as I don't like to hype myself as it usually leads to disappointment)

I enjoyed the new Characters and it was nice to see than Ren wasn't a Darth Vader clone as he had personality traits that separated him from Vader. Finn was really interesting at the beginning and I really liked Rey from the very beginning, being one of my favourite characters in the franchise, though I found the name ironic because the sound of "Rei" I'm used comes from a Psychotic, Manipulative character .

The issue comes with the Plot Structure and Elements, they played way too safe, and I mean WAY too safe. It felt way too similar to Episode IV and I'm sure it is what they intended and I'm not ok with it, I wanted to walk with a few pieces from other Star Wars but I wanted to see a new story at the same time, something I reckon Episode I did (though it was a Prequel so it has an advantage), when it was doing something new, I was truly engaged, when it wasn't (which was the majority of the movie) I was totally out of it and thinking to myself how many elements are they taking from Episode IV.

I would say that this movie ranks 6th on my Star Wars list, ahead of Episode VI and behind Episode II (I started liking Episode II, sue me)

Behind Episode II? I just... I don't.... 6th?!

Spoiler

I'm just busting your chops. It's always such a contrasting discussion when it's with someone that legitimately enjoyed the prequels to the point of possibly ranking them higher than the originals because you tend to see opinions presented in a way that you've never considered before.

Needless to say I don't really get the criticism of The Force Awakens treading very familiar ground as a parallel to A New Hope. It was almost necessary to do so because it, again, welcomes veterans back to the franchise with open arms almost as if to say "You don't have to worry about those movies you didn't like anymore because the Star Wars you know and love is coming back and in a big way!" While it's made for kids the bread and butter comes from the people that either saw the original trilogy in theaters or when they were growing up.

I fall into the latter category and this just ticks every positive box with me. All in all, as the meme above me suggests, I just don't care too much that The Force Awakens feels entirely too familiar because it feels familiar for all of the right reasons. Now if the next two episodes are simply a loose retelling of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi then we'll be having a very different discussion.

 

[JKgo]

Spoiler

Having seen all of the Star Wars movies multiple times, the only spot in Episode VII where I rolled my eyes for them copying something from the old movies was the X-Wings down the corridor scene. Everything else, plot copying never even crossed my mind. I don't understand why people are so stuck on it. This photo has started to make the rounds on facebook:

And I love it.

...Speaking of "familiarity",

Spoiler

...I wonder if someone important, always in mentorship role, dying in the first film of the trilogy is a thing in SW now. In New Hope it was Kenobi, in Episode I it was Qui Gon, and now, Han bites the bullet...

...Oh hey don't mind me, just thinking out aloud here.

 

[Terronium-12]

No no, the thing in Star Wars is losing a limb.

Spoiler

And that didn't happen this time around. At least not yet.

So, progress?

 

[JKgo]

No no, the thing in Star Wars is losing a limb.

Spoiler

And that didn't happen this time around. At least not yet.

So, progress?

...Let's hold our horses 'til the second film - that's when those usually infamous "twists" come. Y'know, like this one...

Spoiler: Y'all know this one so dunno why I'm doing a spoiler...

 

[CodeRedR51]

No no, the thing in Star Wars is losing a limb.

Spoiler

And that didn't happen this time around. At least not yet.

So, progress?

Spoiler

Does C3PO having the wrong arm count?

 

[Terronium-12]

Spoiler

Does C3PO having the wrong arm count?

Spoiler

Don't you know? C3PO is in deep cover!

 

[sems4arsenal]

I honestly think there is something to this. @Terronium-12

 

[Terronium-12]

 

[sems4arsenal]

Spoiler

Kojima canon

 

[Terronium-12]

Well... 🤬.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Good catch. 👍

 

[Com Fox]

Spoiler

Having seen all of the Star Wars movies multiple times, the only spot in Episode VII where I rolled my eyes for them copying something from the old movies was the X-Wings down the corridor scene. Everything else, plot copying never even crossed my mind. I don't understand why people are so stuck on it. This photo has started to make the rounds on facebook:

And I love it.

All good points about my concern. I guess in the end I'm still a bit cautious after the prequels.



Behind Episode II? I just... I don't.... 6th?!

Spoiler

I'm just busting your chops. It's always such a contrasting discussion when it's with someone that legitimately enjoyed the prequels to the point of possibly ranking them higher than the originals because you tend to see opinions presented in a way that you've never considered before.

Needless to say I don't really get the criticism of The Force Awakens treading very familiar ground as a parallel to A New Hope. It was almost necessary to do so because it, again, welcomes veterans back to the franchise with open arms almost as if to say "You don't have to worry about those movies you didn't like anymore because the Star Wars you know and love is coming back and in a big way!" While it's made for kids the bread and butter comes from the people that either saw the original trilogy in theaters or when they were growing up.

I fall into the latter category and this just ticks every positive box with me. All in all, as the meme above me suggests, I just don't care too much that The Force Awakens feels entirely too familiar because it feels familiar for all of the right reasons. Now if the next two episodes are simply a loose retelling of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi then we'll be having a very different discussion.

Spoiler

I don't have an issue with stories taking some inspiration for their story structure and elements. I know Episode I took a few from Episode IV and I loved Episode I, not to mention the anime I'm watching (Yugioh Arc-V) is doing it too.


However, I think this movie tried to be too much like Episode IV, with my examples, sure they took pieces from older stories for nostalgic purposes but they were still able to tell an original story and they have a sort of Identity, I don't see any new identity from Episode VII because of how much they took from Episode IV, and how similar the whole experience is. For me, there is a fine line to referencing old movies, and becoming the same old movie. Try watching Episode VII right after Episode IV and it is kinds uncomfortable on how similar they are IMO.

Because, what made the Originals so awesome was how they experimented with its story and took some risks, the Prequels did they same, mostly. Episode VII took no risks and experiments.

I do get why people might like how similar they as it is a sign of "Hey, this is the Star Wars you all knew and not the ones you hated" but the more I look back on it, the more I don't see any Identity that makes Episode VII stand out like the others. All I see is a movie trying leech from Episode IV shadow. It makes me concerned about the other movies but I actually think they might tell an original story.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Kojima canon

NNNOOOOOOO!!!

 

[Pupik]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Mods, please stay on the topic of spoiling things.

Also, finally got around to seeing it; my son can't sit still for over an hour, so we agreed to let my daughter and grandfather go see it first. Luckily, my daughter knows how to not spoil things at the age of nine.

Spoiler

Wife was not pleased at her favorite actor getting killed by what looked like Jon Snow.

Spoiler

My anticipation was high, but expectations set kind of low; overall, A LOT of nods to the original, and basically, one could start the entire franchise over with character juxtaposition in the same situations. Then again, how else do you re-tell a story that essentially codified The Hero's Journey to a generation of roughly one billion individuals?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Somebody pointed out that C-3P0 has a different arm to in previous films. Someone else drew a parallel to C-3P0's new arm and the prosthetic arm used by Venom Snake in Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. That in turn led to a picture of JJ Abrams posing with Hideo Kojima, holding a signed and personally-addressed copy of The Phantom Pain. That triggered my displeasure (and in doing so, a reference to Revenge of the Sith) given my feelings about Abrams' body of work should he make a Metal Gear Solid film. Then you said you had no idea what we were talking about, so I explained it. I don't know what will happen next, mostly because it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Pupik]

Somebody pointed out that C-3P0 has a different arm to in previous films. Someone else drew a parallel to C-3P0's new arm and the prosthetic arm used by Venom Snake in Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. That in turn led to a picture of JJ Abrams posing with Hideo Kojima, holding a signed and personally-addressed copy of The Phantom Pain. That triggered my displeasure (and in doing so, a reference to Revenge of the Sith) given my feelings about Abrams' body of work should he make a Metal Gear Solid film. Then you said you had no idea what we were talking about, so I explained it. I don't know what will happen next, mostly because it hasn't happened yet.

The cynic in me was bracing for an Iron Man tie-in. That, and CP0 just trying to be cool.

I only understand about half of what you've explained, which is...good enough.

 

[CodeRedR51]

...should he make a Metal Gear Solid film..

Ohhhhh, yes please.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ohhhhh, yes please.

No! Anyone but Abrams! Except maybe Zack Snyder. Give it to somebody interesting.

 

[CodeRedR51]

No! Anyone but Abrams! Except maybe Zack Snyder. Give it to somebody interesting.

Yeah, yeah. We all know you hate one of the best directors in the industry today.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Thirty years from now, we're not going to be looking back on Abrams' work the way we currently do Francis Ford Coppola's. Now, Joel and Ethan Coen; they're directors who will be regarded as brilliant in the future. Likewise Guillermo del Toro, David Fincher, Sam Mendes and (on a good day) Ridley Scott.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Thirty years from now, we're not going to be looking back on Abrams' work the way we currently do Francis Ford Coppola's. Now, Joel and Ethan Coen; they're directors who will be regarded as brilliant in the future. Likewise Guillermo del Toro, David Fincher, Sam Mendes and (on a good day) Ridley Scott.

I disagree.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I disagree.

Any particular reason why? I might not like Abrams, but at least I back that up with something - like Mission: Impossible III, which hinged on the use of a MacGuffin, a basic Hitchcockian plot device, and failed miserably (a MacGuffin can be anything, from nuclear launch codes to a pint of Guinness; it doesn't matter what it is because its existence is enough to make it important - but in Mission: Impossible III, if the "Rabbit's Foot" is a pint of Guinness, the plot doesn't work; this is a fundamental error in the storytelling Abrams prides himself on).

So is there any particular reason why you feel that the Coen brothers, del Toro, Fincher, Mendes or Scott will not be regarded as the best directors of their age and/or why you think Abrams will be considered better than any or all of them? Which of his films are better than No Country for Old Men, Pan's Labyrinth, Fight Club, The Social Network, American Beauty, Alien or The Martian? Which of his film are comparable to The Conversation, The Godfather, The Godfather Part II or Apocalypse Now? And why?

 

[CodeRedR51]

I disagree that we won't be talking about his work. In fact, his work is talked about all the time right now, it's not like everyone will just forget about him. There's a reason Disney begged him to make this film which he originally turned down. If you make crappy movies, that just doesn't happen.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I disagree that we won't be talking about his work. In fact, his work is talked about all the time right now, it's not like everyone will just forget about him.

That's why I said "thirty years from now".

If you make crappy movies, that just doesn't happen.

He makes films that get bums on seats, which means more money for Disney. You can make bad films that still make money - The Fast and the Furious 7 is a prime example of this.

Abrams makes summer blockbusters - films designed to make a profit. He is not the autere that he thinks he is. Look at the Coen brothers' No Country for Old Men, which presents a small-town sheriff whose life has always been defined by law and order, struggling to make sense of the amoral chaos that encroaches upon his world as a byproduct of the rapid cultral transformation that is taking place in the cities. Or look at Pan's Labyrinth, where del Toro uses dark fantasy as a vehicle to tell a coming-of-age story in the nightmarish world of the Spanish Civil War, showing the way a young girl tries to comprehend a world gone mad without accepting things like the bombing of Guernica as being normal. When has Abrams ever taken on a project like this? When has he ever said anything interesting, much less challenging, about the world? When has he ever made a film without inserting himself into it as part of the storytelling process?

 

[CodeRedR51]

That's why I said "thirty years from now".

I stand by what I said.

Again, it all comes down to two types of movie viewers:

1) People like you that see through the screen and nit pick at all the little details, including the production of the film. I'm not sure how you have the patience to sit through a 2 hour movie.

2) People like me that go to the movies to be entertained and don't care about all the malarkey that basically ruins the movie going experience.

Movies are a chance to forget about daily life and immerse yourself in another world. When you pick them apart for 90+ minutes at a time, the fun is lost. When it comes to JJ, I've been a big fan of about 90% of his recent stuff. And this includes Cloverfield, which I know you would beat down for who knows how many reasons. I like his style, and can't wait to see what he does next. To each their own.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Contrary to what you might think, I do appreciate good film. I just don't think JJ Abrams has made any, and I certainly don't think he deserves the reputation he has tried to make for himself.

 

[FoolKiller]

No one talks about blockbuster, pop culture style directors thirty years later. I mean when Harold Ramis died we all just said, "Who?" No one knows of Ivan Reitman or John McTiernan today. And Joe Dante...who? And Richard Donner...what a joke. John Avildsen?

Their movies have had no effect on society and would never be discussed in a respectable film discussion.

Caddyshack, Ghostbusters, Die Hard, Gremlins, Superman, Rocky? Those are forgettable blockbuster tripe that no one cares about today. They definitely don't hold a torch to The Godfather.