He makes films that get bums on seats, which means more money for Disney. You can make bad films that still make money - The Fast and the Furious 7 is a prime example of this.
Abrams makes summer blockbusters - films designed to make a profit. He is not the autere that he thinks he is. Look at the Coen brothers' No Country for Old Men, which presents a small-town sheriff whose life has always been defined by law and order, struggling to make sense of the amoral chaos that encroaches upon his world as a byproduct of the rapid cultral transformation that is taking place in the cities. Or look at Pan's Labyrinth, where del Toro uses dark fantasy as a vehicle to tell a coming-of-age story in the nightmarish world of the Spanish Civil War, showing the way a young girl tries to comprehend a world gone mad without accepting things like the bombing of Guernica as being normal. When has Abrams ever taken on a project like this? When has he ever said anything interesting, much less challenging, about the world? When has he ever made a film without inserting himself into it as part of the storytelling process?
No one talks about blockbuster, pop culture style directors thirty years later. I mean when Harold Ramis died we all just said, "Who?" No one knows of Ivan Reitman or John McTiernan today. And Joe Dante...who? And Richard Donner...what a joke. John Avildsen?
Their movies have had no effect on society and would never be discussed in a respectable film discussion.
Caddyshack, Ghostbusters, Die Hard, Gremlins, Superman, Rocky? Those are forgettable blockbuster tripe that no one cares about today. They definitely don't hold a torch to The Godfather.
A film can be enduring, but to hear his fans - and himself - tell it, Abrams is the definitive film-maker of a generation. He desperately wants to be the heir apparent to Steven Spielberg, but hasn't done anything to deserve it.
I never claimed that it was a modern classic, and I acknowledge that it has its faults. But there's a hell of a lot more going on in it thematically than anything Abrams has produced. Look at the symbolism of the CNS building - dominating the London skyline, and yet ironically transparent and empty. Compare that to Vauxhall Cross on the opposite side of the river; solid and enduring despite being broken. Where's the nuance of The Force Awakens?
I haven't. If I let my hatred cloud my judgement, I would be here criticising it without having seen it. I just think that it's an average film and undeserving of the praise being heaped upon it.
A film can be enduring, but to hear his fans - and himself - tell it, Abrams is the definitive film-maker of a generation. He desperately wants to be the heir apparent to Steven Spielberg, but hasn't done anything to deserve it.
But that is far different from saying we won't be talking about his movies in 30 years. That's a pretty hard sell to make about someone who just finished what many consider to be the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy.
It is true, none of the films I listed, like Abrams won't be viewed like Coppola, but he can be compared to...George Lucas. In my opinion, my favorite movie of 2014 was Guardians of the Galaxy. The best movie I saw from 2014 was Whiplash. We will be discussing James Gunn and Damien Chazelle has the opportunity to now become a big director. If he does he will have the chance to be one of the greats. They will be discussed, but in different aspects.
Abrams won't be a forgotten footnote in film history, but he won't be winning any film of the year rewards (people's choice and teen choice being possible exceptions) either.
Even if he is as bad as you make him out to be, even Ed Wood is still discussed today.
Saw the movie in 3D a couple of days ago. Really enjoyed the original trilogy, picked it up on disc after it was remastered a few years ago and after reading so many positive reviews my expectations were pretty high...and I left pretty disappointed. To me it's basically just a remake of Star Wars, Death Star and all. Far too much action, far too little character development, far too predictable and I thought Han and Leia just came across as flat and bored. I had told some out of town friends I'd go and see it with them when they came calling next week but I might have to weasel myself out of it. I'd put it on about the same level as the original Transformers which I actually enjoyed more in terms of blockbuster action/sci-fi flicks.
Abrams won't be a forgotten footnote in film history, but he won't be winning any film of the year rewards (people's choice and teen choice being possible exceptions) either.
Which is my point. That's exactly who he is - but it's not who he is desperately trying to be. Like I said, Abrams is trying to position himself as one of the definitive film-makers of his generation, but nothing in his body of work supports that. Look at Super 8, which was pretty much two hours of him high-fiving everyone and shouting "Yeah! I'm the new Steven Spielberg! YEAH!", completely unaware that the brilliance of E.T. - The Extra-Terrestrial is not so much in Spielberg's direction, but in the cinematography of Allen Daviau. Do you know who the cinematographer was for Super 8? No, of course you don't - because all you get is JJ ABRAMS plastered over everything.
For the record, it was Larry Fong.
If you have ever watched any of Abrams' films or appearances at the likes of ComiCon, he has this distinct need to insert himself into the films. He's like a magician who pulls back the curtain to show you how the trick works and then expects everyone to heap praise on him for it.
Look at Mission: Impossible III which starts in media res - "in the middle of things". It opens with Tom Cruise having been caught by Phillip Seymour Hoffman, who is taunting him and forcing him into an impossible predicament. But before we find out what happens, Abrams cuts to the titles, then backs up to where it all began. Over the next ninety minutes, Cruise is caught up in helicopter chases, elaborate heists, several shoot-outs and a parachute jump - but because Abrams started the film in media res, everything has to come back to the point where the film began, so there is no sense of tension, no sense of danger; nothing. Sure, we know Cruise is the leading man, and so will probably survive the film, but you never get the sense that he really might be in a situation that he can't escape. Does that sound like the work of a visionary film director?
Abrams has this cult of personality surrounding him. We're expected to believe that everything he touches turns to gold. But all I see is a string of summer blockbusters let down by fundamental errors in their basic construction and a joker at the helm shouting "love me because I made this film!". If you want to see a real autere at work, watch Francis Ford Coppola's The Conversation.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying either one was a great film, just that one was slightly more enjoyable than the other. You know, like how you might enjoy an episode of Facts of Life more than an episode of Charles in Charge
Your faux pas wasn't saying that you enjoyed one more than the other, it was saying you rate The Force Awakens on the same level as the first Transformers movie.
I never claimed that it was a modern classic, and I acknowledge that it has its faults. But there's a hell of a lot more going on in it thematically than anything Abrams has produced. Look at the symbolism of the CNS building - dominating the London skyline, and yet ironically transparent and empty. Compare that to Vauxhall Cross on the opposite side of the river; solid and enduring despite being broken. Where's the nuance of The Force Awakens?
Nuance doesn't fix a bad movie. Spectre was flat, yet was – much like TFA – massively hyped.
FWIW, neither one cracked my personal Top 3 this year, though Spectre was easily the most disappointing (followed by Ultron). TFA served its purpose, IMO: it has brought Star Wars back to the fore of pop culture. Mirroring the original film's arc and themes is a good idea for something like this when compared to trade route discussions and midichlorians.
I'd also argue that strained, regional symbolism like that isn't even required in blockbuster films. Especially one that has a much broader audience to satisfy.
I haven't. If I let my hatred cloud my judgement, I would be here criticising it without having seen it. I just think that it's an average film and undeserving of the praise being heaped upon it.
So I don't like a director's body of work, but I am somehow expected to suppress that when viewing his next film despite there being no evidence to suggest that this next film will be any different?
I'm torn. Do I wade through countless boxes in my garage looking for the original trilogy in VHS (I'm already ruling this out on principle even though I've asked ), purchase the VHS boxset on eBay, or bite the bullet and pick up the originals on Blu-ray and just cringe at the unnecessary alterations?
If there's another option I'm forgetting, please, speak up.
I have the DVDs of 4-5-6 with new and old movies (...got them around 2007 or '08?) Episodes 1-2-3 were available in Blu-Ray+DVD for the same price a few months back, so I got that because the kids* were nagging me to see them.
Somewhere in a box are the VHS versions of the original trilogy, probably sandwiched next to The Player, The Usual Suspects, and 50 video cassettes of taped F1 races.
* they usually misplace one, or put it in the wrong case (Princess Bride? The Simpsons Season 5? Wii Sports Resort?), so it's nice to have a backup.
If anyone is super interested in most of the new Star Wars movies and related canon coming out, I would recommend checking this show out. A new one is posted every Thursday. Todays episode was slightly different from their normal format, but if you go through previous shows you'll see how they do things.
Hey guys, so I was waiting to post in this thread until after I've seen the movie, and until after I've read all 29 pages of it. I watched the movie about a week ago. The movie itself was fantastic. I was a little skeptical of Disney taking it over in 2012, but they have really shown that they don't have to do silly cartoons. The story did feel a little bit too close to "said other movie" but honestly I do not really want to see a Star Wars movie for it's plot. I more enjoy them for their cool designs, and the battles. A lot of you bash the 1999-2007 era movies, but I don't think they were all that bad. I agree that the plot was poorly thought out, as we already knew what happened to Anakin, so showing us what happened does seem kind of lazy and uninteresting. What I will say though, is that we got some excellent battle scenes from those movies. The Darth Maul vs Qui Gon and Obi Wan duel, Battle at Geonosis, Space battle at Coruscant, and the Mustafar duel was great until they were floating on the lava. I think a Clone Wars movie in between Ep II and III is in line though. I'd say that this movie rates number 2 on my list of Star Wars movies. I'd say it goes like this; V, VII, VI, II (Getting rid of the aweful love scenes), III, IV, I. Now for the spoilers section on the new movie.
Excuse the spoiler, it's really long, but I had to get my thoughts out.
Entire Movie Thoughts;
- Yeah, it is basically a New Hope 2.0, and this bothered me the day that I watched the movie. But I kind of forgot about that after thinking about the other aspects of the movie.
- Finally, a slightly more dark Star Wars movie. This movie had an almost Dark Night moment to me. Things like seeing Star Wars' first blood, Kylo Rens character, and the scene with all the storm troopers lined up before the use of the Starkiller Base. Just to name a few. This is something that Star Wars always should have been, but never was. And I'm happy that it finally was.
- I love that the Starkiller Base finally shows us how the thing powers up. The amount of power that would be needed to destroy a planet is large, so I hated that we were in the dark with the Deathstar. Now, I know, a Sun would have enough energy to destroy multiple universes, but it's still cool none the less.
- BB-8 is a fantastic edition to the crew. He's cute and goes back to the old style Robot's with a sense of humor feel.
- Daisy Ridley was excellent. It helps that she is extremely attractive without makeup as well. Sorry Carrie Fisher, but you've met your match. I'm curious to see if she is a Skywalker, or a Solo. There's leads that she could be either. She seems to connect well with Han Solo, but then has the natural Skywalker ability to be able to learn quickly. I personally think She is the daughter of Han and Leia. But, I guess we won't know until they actually tell us. Han, Luke, and Leia know who she is though. And I'm sure of it. Han was about to tell Maz who she was, when we pull away. So it's no surprise to me that Maz would later tell her that the force is calling to her.
- Adam Driver I thought was a little shaky (But there is a potential theory behind this). And Kylo Ren's character is one that I'm really looking forward to being developed. The theory that he may be a double agent is an interesting one. And he did say that he was going to finish what Vader started. Well, at the end Vader did bring balance to the force. So it's possible his poor acting was a sign of confusion and a struggle to not get too deep into the dark side. Also, I find it interesting how he has different abilities to that of the old Sith's but then can't do some of the ones that they could. Stopping the bullet at the beginning was really surprising, I immediately thought, they can't do that!
- I'll agree that the music in this movie wasn't moving. It wasn't bad, but there wasn't any scores that had impact like in the originals.
- I think the movie leaves us with an excellent cliff hanger at the end and they've already got my money for Rogue One and Ep VIII.
In Chrono Order;
- The opening in 3D really brought the reading and the pan down from Space really came to life with the stars being in different positions.
- Opening scene when the Storm Troopers are flying down to Tato... Jakku was a great start. It showed the intent of a new style darker Star Wars.
- Why does an old man that we know nothing about hold the missing data to find Luke? Kylo knows who he is, so who is he?
- Finally the first blood and the first sign of feelings from Stormtroopers!
- The entrance of Kylo Ren was awesome, and it was quickly followed by some new abilities. His ship must also be a new version of the ship that has been used in III - VI. Excuse me for not knowing it's name.
- Captain Phasma is interesting. And I think a good edition. And I really like the idea of finally having a proper commander, like that of Captain Cody in the Clone Era.
- Rey <3. I like her intro. Although it annoys me that the main characters all come from sandy planets.
- Another new cool mind reading trick that Kylo can do that others in the past seemingly couldn't do
- The escape of Poe and Fin is rather strange because the Stormtrooper guarding Poe is takes another order from a Stormtrooper? Nobody saw Fin take Poe into that alley to reveal his intentions to Poe? There was Stormtroopers in that hallway. Nobody noticed that the way he was holding Poe hostage was different from the others?
- How did Poe escape from the sand dune that ate the ship? We later figure out that he woke up alone at night. But what?
- Fin just happens to go to the same place Rey was at... that seems way too coincidental, which is what we got in the prequels.
- Yay! The return of the Falcon!
- Excellent pilot skills from Rey, the part where she angled the ship so Fin could shoot the Tie Fighter was awesome.
- Seems a bit too coincidental that Han's was able to find his ship so quickly after they had left Jakku.
- It was great to see Maz's place because it reminds you of Han and Chewy's past.
- Han was about to tell Maz who Rey is when they cut away. This tells me that they know who she is, and that they are just keeping it a secret so that she can go under the radar.
- I think that it is interesting how the Deathstar 1 and 2 had such a powerful weapon, but we were never explained as to how it came up with it's energy. I like that the Starkiller base is different. Although the Suns energy could probably destroy a few galaxies to be honest.
- The flashback that Rey had after touching Luke's lightsaber is rather strange. This has never happened in the past movies, but so has some of the force powers that Ren has.
- How do the stormtroopers recognize Fin when he's not in uniform?
- The entrance of the Resistance was cool. I liked how the X-Wings were blowing the water up behind them, that is a nice effect that was never added into prior movies. Why not?
- How was it that the Resistance was able to destroy just about everything but Ren's ship?
- This is the first time that Ren reveals himself and his mind tricks don't work on Rey. I find it interesting how he says "You feel it too" almost like they know that they are related.
- R2 is in low power mode? He's a droid, couldn't anyone just turn him back up at any given moment? Doesn't seem all that realistic to me.
- We finally get to see Supreme Leader Snoke, who looks an awful lot like Darth Plagueis to me. Could this be him, just with a different name?
- When Ren discovers that Rey has gone missing from her cell, I think the second temper trantrum is a great way of showing his anger. This is something that the bad guys in prior movies really needed to me. In the prior movies, they were just too clean.
- Captain Phasma didn't really put up any resistance against Fin when he asked her to lower the shields. Kind of ruined an otherwise really cool character.
- You can just tell that Han Solo's death is coming when he begins to walk towards Ren on that unrailed walkway. But, I think that this scene really just reveals the conflict that is within Ren. This may be further the reason as to why he may not be 100% converted or is serving a different purprose.
- Chewy's reaction to Han's death I thought was very raw. This is the exact reaction I expect, so excellent job there.
- The controversy of how Ren was not able to keep a fight against an ex Stormtrooper and Rey is also quite interesting. Although I am of the belief that he is not in tip top shape. He was hit by Chewy's bow and was clearly seen bleeding. As well as he had just killed his father, and shown that there was some conflict in doing that. So I definitely think that there is no way he was in top form.
- How does Ren get off the planet in time? There's no way that general was able to find him and fly off in time.
- The hug between Leia and Rey leads me to believe that she knows that it is her daughter. But knows that she can't say anything just yet. I'm just wondering why Rey hasn't felt it yet.
- R2 just happens to wake up at the correct time? Can a robot feel the force?
- I honestly think it would have been better not to show Luke at the end. It would have been an even better cliff hangar. But I guess if she had found his hiding spot from the map, even if they cut off before we see him, I guess we would have known that she must have found him either way.
Your faux pas wasn't saying that you enjoyed one more than the other, it was saying you rate The Force Awakens on the same level as the first Transformers movie.
. I'd put it on about the same level as the original Transformers which I actually enjoyed more in terms of blockbuster action/sci-fi flicks.
