STAR WARS General Discussion | Warning: Possible SPOILERS!Movies 

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@Danoff

I don't really see it that way, at least not beyond the fact that being strong with the force could be considered like a genetic trait. The choice with what you do with that is open to the individual, but mostly that can be treated as though decided by external influence. The Jedi order seem to follow a "with great power comes great responsibility Mantra", as a side note (I appreciate we're talking about the films here but....) the book Master & Apprentice poses the question 'do Jedi get to exercise free will?' whilst Qui-Gon Jinn is Kenobi's master.... Qui-Gon comes to believe heavily in prophecy, and Obi-wan talks about accepting that choice of what to do with the power of the force is taken away by the Jedi whilst people are essentially toddlers, but that they must accept that for the greater good... anyway, I digress.

It is partly why Luke is so dead-set on proving Anakin's inner conflict and desire to do good, it validates him. It validates Lea.

This can't even begin to become the case until ESB is about to roll credits. Up until that point Luke's just trying to do his bit to save the galaxy and considers his father to be dead... So I don't see it as a factor in Ep. IV or V. Come Ep. VI I don't think at all that Luke is seeking validation for him or Leia. He's still trying to save the Galaxy, and whilst there's no doubt the power he lucked into just by being born, kept him alive a lot longer against Vader - it's not what ultimately saved the day, it was simply the reliance that a father would not see his son killed. His motivation for wanting to turn Vader back to the light isn't as simply as validation... it literally saves the galaxy from tyranny, saves his sister, and saves his friends... if Vader stays evil, it's not a burden that Luke lives with... it's the death of him, and every he cares about, and a lot of people he doesn't care about. He's haunted by the possibly he'll end up like Vader, he sees it in the Dagobah cave, he sees it when he's whooping Vader's ass and looks at his mechanical hand... he's not trying to use Vader or the circumstance to validate himself, he's doing it to be better than his father, and hopefully to drag him back to the light, and save everyone at the same time. Lukes choice is validated, as it works.

If the issue is genetics removing free will, then I suppose in its simplest state the story rests on the Bond between a father and son. More broadly speaking if the issue is pre-destiny then yeah, it's a problem for any film that has prophecy as a plot device.

How different is Ep IX really? Rey shuns her Evil ancestry as did Luke, but instead of relying on familial bonds to save her, her friends and the galaxy - she relies on the Force, the 'genetic' trait, she (and Ben Solo) have.

I'm not really disagreeing that 'destiny' over free-will is a plot device in Star Wars, I just think that it doesn't affect character motivations quite the way you imply. Maybe the difference is subtle... is the luck/burden of their birth what drives them to fulfill their destiny, or what empowers them to take a path they may chose (albeit with external influences).
 
@Danoff

I don't really see it that way, at least not beyond the fact that being strong with the force could be considered like a genetic trait. The choice with what you do with that is open to the individual, but mostly that can be treated as though decided by external influence. The Jedi order seem to follow a "with great power comes great responsibility Mantra", as a side note (I appreciate we're talking about the films here but....) the book Master & Apprentice poses the question 'do Jedi get to exercise free will?' whilst Qui-Gon Jinn is Kenobi's master.... Qui-Gon comes to believe heavily in prophecy, and Obi-wan talks about accepting that choice of what to do with the power of the force is taken away by the Jedi whilst people are essentially toddlers, but that they must accept that for the greater good... anyway, I digress.



This can't even begin to become the case until ESB is about to roll credits. Up until that point Luke's just trying to do his bit to save the galaxy and considers his father to be dead... So I don't see it as a factor in Ep. IV or V. Come Ep. VI I don't think at all that Luke is seeking validation for him or Leia. He's still trying to save the Galaxy, and whilst there's no doubt the power he lucked into just by being born, kept him alive a lot longer against Vader - it's not what ultimately saved the day, it was simply the reliance that a father would not see his son killed. His motivation for wanting to turn Vader back to the light isn't as simply as validation... it literally saves the galaxy from tyranny, saves his sister, and saves his friends... if Vader stays evil, it's not a burden that Luke lives with... it's the death of him, and every he cares about, and a lot of people he doesn't care about. He's haunted by the possibly he'll end up like Vader, he sees it in the Dagobah cave, he sees it when he's whooping Vader's ass and looks at his mechanical hand... he's not trying to use Vader or the circumstance to validate himself, he's doing it to be better than his father, and hopefully to drag him back to the light, and save everyone at the same time. Lukes choice is validated, as it works.

If the issue is genetics removing free will, then I suppose in its simplest state the story rests on the Bond between a father and son. More broadly speaking if the issue is pre-destiny then yeah, it's a problem for any film that has prophecy as a plot device.

How different is Ep IX really? Rey shuns her Evil ancestry as did Luke, but instead of relying on familial bonds to save her, her friends and the galaxy - she relies on the Force, the 'genetic' trait, she (and Ben Solo) have.

I'm not really disagreeing that 'destiny' over free-will is a plot device in Star Wars, I just think that it doesn't affect character motivations quite the way you imply. Maybe the difference is subtle... is the luck/burden of their birth what drives them to fulfill their destiny, or what empowers them to take a path they may chose (albeit with external influences).

I think you're offering the story a bit of an optimistic view. Luke chases his "father" from the beginning of Ep. IV when Luke meets Obi for the first time. Even from that very scene, we get implications that Luke's piloting is inherited, his destiny to learn the ways of the force is inherited. He's conflicted because his actual parents (his Aunt and Uncle) need him, but he wants nothing more than to chase the legacy of his genetics. There is no bond between father and son, Luke's father has been estranged the entire time. The movie is implying that Luke's primary aptitudes and motivations are genetic. They have nothing to do with the parents that raised him.

I'm not necessarily arguing with that message, just saying that it's heavy in the movie. Luke's genetic legacy hits him from the word go in the franchise, and it never stops. It's partly why he's so devastated when he learns who his father is. It's laid out quite explicitly in his training when they present him with the possibility that he will actually become Vader. Rey is presented with similar imagery (ie: what she wears in her own cave scene) - the possibility that you will become your ancestors. The interesting thing here is that the specific imagery used is an actual genetic ancestor. Not something generic, but a specific person. A person who in both cases was not involved in any of the intellectual raising on training of them as a child, and is only purely genetically related. Yet their fate is to become this person? Purely because of genetics.

Luke's story is that he's born special. The reason he is born special is because of his genetics, it has nothing to do with his immediate family. It's completely out of his control. And as he learns more about his genetics, he starts to fret about, and personalize, the actions of his genetic father, as if they have bearing on him. After Ep. 6, we learn that Luke took that lesson even farther, hiding from himself out of his own fear of his genetics. The message was that Luke was not trusting in his mind, or his training, or even his heart, but had to hide from some deeper inherited flaw that could overcome him. It's very unhealthy and I'm glad that Ep. 9 rejects that message, though it has to force Luke's life to be a waste to do it.
 
Rumors flying that Sabine Wren might make an appearance in Mando season 2, along with Bo-Katan played by Katee Sackhoff who voices her in the Clone Wars animated series.
 
The guy that was editing in the Siege of Mandalore arc from the final Clone Wars season into Episode III has finished it. If you are interested let me know and I will forward you the link.
 
I finished the rest of Clone Wars Season 7. It was fantastic. I would have liked more episodes, but they did a great job with this final season.
 
Planning a drive in California next year and discovered this road. Thought it was interesting.

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Any love out there for Ron Howard's Solo: A Star Wars Story?
I heard it was not exactly a great financial success, yet is there a sequel stirring in the future?
 
It was awful.

I have the 1997 VHS Special Edition box set. The Darth Vader case is destroyed but each movie's individual case is fine. I hear they go for a lot of money online these days?
 
Any love out there for Ron Howard's Solo: A Star Wars Story?
I heard it was not exactly a great financial success, yet is there a sequel stirring in the future?
I enjoyed it. There is a group of fans pushing for a sequel but it likely won't happen. However there are rumors the story could continue in a Disney+ series.
 
It was awful.

I have the 1997 VHS Special Edition box set. The Darth Vader case is destroyed but each movie's individual case is fine. I hear they go for a lot of money online these days?
Are these things actually worth anything?
 
Yes, I'm aware of what eBay is. I've seen it for 20 bucks and 2,000. I figured maybe someone here who is actually a Star Wars buff could point me in the right direction.
 
Yes, I'm aware of what eBay is. I've seen it for 20 bucks and 2,000. I figured maybe someone here who is actually a Star Wars buff could point me in the right direction.
I mean general transaction prices on eBay is the best way to figure out value. *shrugs*
 
Any love out there for Ron Howard's Solo: A Star Wars Story?
I heard it was not exactly a great financial success, yet is there a sequel stirring in the future?

I enjoyed the movie and I was very skeptical going into it. Maybe I enjoyed it for what it was because my expectations were so low.
 
Any love out there for Ron Howard's Solo: A Star Wars Story?

I enjoyed it a lot. Sure, there's some stuff I didn't like about it, but it's better than it's financial results would indicate.

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@DesertPenguin

If you've got the edition I'm thinking of, it's not worth much as far as I'm aware. The ones that are worth anything are the boxsets pre-special edition release. IIRC there was a remastered moulded Vader head box set widescreen THX release of the original cuts.... that's worth a bit as far as I know, but pretty much every Star Wars fan and his dog bought the spec-eds when they were released, I'd be surprised if they were worth more than their original purchase price.
 
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Looks really good!

Granted i've not watched the season one yet, but still. Hoping to see a release date soon for the 1st season on Blu Ray.
 
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