Steambox

[sesselpupser]

I've spent far too long just endlessly refreshing the thread to see what T-12 posts whilst coming up with a post of my own... Suggesting that PC gamers have anything to be thankful to the existence of consoles for is just the most bizarre and ignorant thing I've heard on these forums. Don't get me wrong, we've had some good games out of this generation, but would they have been better had they been designed for PC in the first place? Hell yes. The PC as a platform has never diminished and is only expanding, it's just that consoles have expanded more. Proof of poor PC sales, please! Poorer than console? Sure (but even then that's because most of the time you hear about console sales vs. PC sales, not PS3 vs. 360 vs. Wii vs. PC sales) but poor in an absolute sense? Nope.

Aaaanyway, on topic: The Piston. I've been thinking about it and I really don't get why they thought they had to go that small. I'd probably be too worried about pulling it off the shelf with the weight of my 360 controller's cable to actually use it. I think it's interesting and telling to note Valve and Xi3's stances on the Piston. Seems like Valve don't want anything to do with it any more, but Xi3 say Valve funded it in the first place. Sounds to me like Valve wanted them to make the definition of a Steambox, Xi3 went too far and made it too expensive, Valve washed their hands of it.

 

[LaBounti]

but would they have been better had they been designed for PC?

What games and why would they be better? What would make a game better that it can't achieve already as multiplatform?

 

[Terronium-12]

I would hope so. For the processor and graphics card alone you paid pretty much the price of gen6 consoles circa 2010. Now lets slap on $100 Windows 7, $100 motherboard, $100 PSU, the list goes on and on



So where is Sim City for $30 and under? Or are we going to say PC games are cheaper but not mention they dont become cheaper then console games until months after release on average, likely because they sold poorly when compared to the console versions and devs are trying to get them off the shelves? PC gamers should be thankful for console gamers. Because without them your initially lower prices and fast price drops would not happen.



For starters is funny how all the PC supporters talk about mythical "$500 PCs" but they themselves have PCs well over $1000. And I go as far as to say you're doing people a disfavor when suggesting they only spend $500 to build what will be a rather shoddy gaming PC. The first 3rd party steambox is $1000+, because they know most PC gamers dont want to settle for low end garbage.

As for game prices the PSN has big sales all the time. Little Big Planet Karting was $9.99 not too long ago, and it had only been out a few months. Steam isnt the only place in the world with sales.



Many people have iPads, iPods, iTablets, iLaptops, and such that already does that. They dont need an expensive gaming PC.



Yeah, 1% of the population found it for $40.

If you want the "deluxe" edition of Sim City that includes gameplay extras its $80

http://store.origin.com/store/ea/html/pbPage.SimcityNA

Thats the price the mainstream PC gamer pays, not the 1% who can find that one obscure website



Misinformation? If you want to run the latest PC games on max settings and comfortably above 30fps, you're looking at that price tag.



I've gone through the books multiple times pricing parts. Every single time the number $900+ keeps popping up, no matter what part I downgraded. If I want any chance of playing the latest games anywhere near full settings and safely above 30fps, $1000~ is the only option.

Actually, here is the parts list I have saved

$200 - AMD Radeon HD 7850 2 GB
$190 - AMD FX-8350
$110 - Corsair Enthusiast Series TX 750 Watt
$100 - Seagate Barracuda 7200 2 TB
$100 - Microsoft Windows 8 64-bit (Full Version) - OEM
$100 - GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 AM3+
$50 - Corsair Vengeance 8GB
$40 - Case Elite 311
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
$30 - Sony AD-7280S-0B 24x
$30 - Logitech Wireless Combo

$980. And Im sure many would consider this a "mid-tier" system. If someone was building a gaming PC, I really couldnt recommend anything less.



Maybe PC gamers should just accept their hobby is a luxury that comes at a price? Why do they have to pretend its "cheaper" in the long run, and they're getting the best of both worlds? I really want to join the PC gaming party again, but its going to take a while to come up with $1000, especially when I have other electronics in mind.

You know, it's funny how I originally typed up a longer reply, when all I could have said was the following:

You're complaining that you need to spend $1000 or more on a gaming rig, however, when your own efforts wholly disprove your functionally inaccurate claims you then go on to disregard them by claiming "If I want any chance of playing the latest games anywhere near full settings and safely above 30fps, $1000~ is the only option." as if a 7850 wouldn't do precisely that and then some.

Then it settled in: you're the type of person who would purchase a GTX 690 and then complain when you weren't getting 100-200+ frames in every single game that can possibly be had for the PC. You're also the type of person who, from as far as I can ascertain, has absolutely no idea what "bang for buck" is.

 

[Luminis]

You forgot to add in a fanatec wheel for xbox consoles

Oh, yeah, I kinda forgot about about the highly specific peripherals.

Did I mention that my rommate has a WiiMote hooked up to his computer?

 

[sesselpupser]

What games and why would they be better? What would make a game better that it can't achieve already as multiplatform?

All games. Come on... 8GB+ RAM, 1-3GB VRAM, silly amounts of storage, DX11, high resolutions, high frame rates, many, many more inputs and so on. Compare BF3, Crysis 3 and Max Payne 3's console versions to the PC versions. Look at the night and day difference between a PC exclusive and a console exclusive.

Some examples of games that could've been far better than they were had they been developed for PC:

Just Cause 2. Amazingly it fit on a single 7GB DVD, but imagine what the textures, audio quality, draw distance and map size would've been like if it occupied 20GB and could use even 4GB RAM.

Skyrim. It looked like absolute crap until modders got hold of it because of the low resolution textures.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Each hub area was smaller and less interactive than those in Deus Ex, the much older game. Pre-rendered cutscenes looked terrible (worse than the engine did) because they were only rendered once, for the 360 version. Low bit rate to occupy less space on the DVD, probably 720p resolution.

Almost every shooter. Why is it, do you think, we now have either one button to swap between two weapons (Call of Duty style) or four buttons to directly choose one of four weapons (Borderlands 2, Far Cry 3)? Why do you think we no longer have ten keys to select one of ten weapons? Because console controllers don't have enough buttons. Why do so many games now have crazily low fields of view (Resident Evil 5, Syndicate, Borderlands)? Is it because players want the on-screen gun or character to take up a third of the screen or is it because developers know the player will be sitting on a sofa a good few feet away from their TV so they have to magnify everything for them to see what's going on?

I could go on, but let me ask you a counter-question instead: how have the consoles' limitations benefitted game design?

 

[Luminis]

I'm beginning to think it would make sense to create a "PC vs. Consoles" thread - so the whole bickering could be contained to one place. Much like the original purpose of the Forza vs. GT thread

 

[DustDriver]

you can get small form factor PCs (I can't remember who but someone has a thread about theirs in the Computers forum, is it DustDriver?)

Nope, I have a big pc.
NLxAROSA has a small form factor pc he games with though.

 

[F1 fan]

I'm beginning to think it would make sense to create a "PC vs. Consoles" thread - so the whole bickering could be contained to one place. Much like the original purpose of the Forza vs. GT thread

It's a great idea, but I can't help but think it would still spill into other threads.

 

[LaBounti]

All games. Come on... 8GB+ RAM, 1-3GB VRAM, silly amounts of storage, DX11, high resolutions, high frame rates, many, many more inputs and so on. Compare BF3, Crysis 3 and Max Payne 3's console versions to the PC versions. Look at the night and day difference between a PC exclusive and a console exclusive.

So all PC games are made for one PC? So it graphics then.. doesn't this go against your point? The graphics are already better on PC and not limited by consoles. Would said PC exclusive not work on consoles by lowering the detail? Is graphics the only thing that makes it better?

Some examples of games that could've been far better than they were had they been developed for PC:

Just Cause 2. Amazingly it fit on a single 7GB DVD, but imagine what the textures, audio quality, draw distance and map size would've been like if it occupied 20GB and could use even 4GB RAM.

Skyrim. It looked like absolute crap until modders got hold of it because of the low resolution textures.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Each hub area was smaller and less interactive than those in Deus Ex, the much older game. Pre-rendered cutscenes looked terrible (worse than the engine did) because they were only rendered once, for the 360 version. Low bit rate to occupy less space on the DVD, probably 720p resolution.

Wouldn't that be design choice? Again games aren't made for one PC, if they choose not to add an extra HD package that's their design choice. Bioshock Infinite has an HD Texture option, Crysis 2/3 has an HD texture option. Its a choice left up to the developer. Not limited by consoles.

Better graphics don't make a better game, nothing you said would make the story better, the gameplay better, no unique combat system impossible to do on console. I have an 360 and a PS3 but got Skyrim for PS3 over the better looking Xbox version and its not worth buying a PC Just for even better graphics, its the same game no matter what it looks like. Even PC running on Low, its the same game on Ultra and the same game with HD mod kits.. That is personal preference.

Almost every shooter. Why is it, do you think, we now have either one button to swap between two weapons (Call of Duty style) or four buttons to directly choose one of four weapons (Borderlands 2, Far Cry 3)? Why do you think we no longer have ten keys to select one of ten weapons? Because console controllers don't have enough buttons. Why do so many games now have crazily low fields of view (Resident Evil 5, Syndicate, Borderlands)? Is it because players want the on-screen gun or character to take up a third of the screen or is it because developers know the player will be sitting on a sofa a good few feet away from their TV so they have to magnify everything for them to see what's going on?

Design choice. These are all clearly your opinion. Some games are designed to make the game more realistic with weapon loadouts. Soldiers don't carry 7 different guns. Have you ever played first Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six on PC? Unreal 3 lets you select any gun you want, Resistance 1 lets you choose any gun you want via weapon wheel. Meaning if they were on PC(Unreal 3) you could hot key any weapon. Consoles have nothing to do with this. Its game design. Borderlands is an RPG FPS. Much Like Diablo that influenced it you could only use a couple weapons at a time. Diablo 2 wasn't limited by consoles. I've been a PC gamer since the 3dFX Voodoo 1 days and a console gamer so I understand how some games have evolved away from the doom style gameplay where you can use 10 different weapons

I could go on, but let me ask you a counter-question instead: how have the consoles' limitations benefitted game design?

I never made the claim they the do. But they do make money for companies like Bethesda and Crytek so they have to design a game people will buy so they can make that money. And soon Witcher 3 will make that leap to better financial times. The only limit is imagination and the risk of doing something new that may or may not sell well forcing yet another company to go down. PC games are better for different reasons and can be applied to multiplatform. All your reasons are personal and don't make the games themselves any better, only how you experience it.

You can say PC is limited by it's self since it has to run games on lower end systems(low textures & draw distance) or it wouldn't sell well if only a few people can play it. That highend option will always be an option.

Apologies for hijacking the thread going 90% off topic.

 

[dice1998]

Yeah I think it's time for a Console vs PC thread

News on the Piston

 

[Jump_Ace]

Good article, thanks for the link. Well I guess as long as we can install Linux on the Piston Steambox that's a nice feature. I'm also assuming since they have been beefing up their Linux Steam games a bit recently, that the released games will have full compatibility under Linux.

But on the other hand, if the Piston Steambox came with sort of core-installation of Windows 8 to save valuable resources, then why not as we know the games will have full compatibility.

Just having the option to mess around with on a console is reason enough for me to want one.


Jerome

 

[sesselpupser]

I think the OS will be the most important and, really, the defining feature of a Steambox. If Valve can deliver the Steam optimised Linux distro they've at least hinted at then we should see performance gains because the processor and RAM aren't burdened with running unnecessary processes and services. However, getting developers to support OpenGL or some other new... Thing other than DirectX will be difficult so uptake would likely be slow. Valve have a plan, though, they don't have to have an OS until the games are there, so if Linux gaming takes off then the Steambox could have a stronger starting lineup.

The most exciting thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that the Steambox won't be just one computer, you'll be able to build your own (I'm assuming) if you want. Integrated C/GPUs like the PS4 has will make things even more interesting with gaming systems on chip, packaging options for that will be interesting.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Hello peeps, with the Steam machines coming out in November, who's getting one ?.Apparently there will be over 4,500 titles and more added every day, it should be good.

 

[Luminis]

Eh... If I wanted one, I'd install the SteamOS Beta on my PC. I might do that eventually, actually, as a secondary OS strictly for gaming - if it does indeed provide tangible benefits over WinX.