Sub 5 minute club at the 'ring' - are you in?

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6.20 in the MINOLTA but i did have a bentley chasing my rear
 
syclone538
In the February ’05 issue of Automobile magazine on page 20 there is a pic of a car I’ve never seen before with a caption that says
“CARRERA KILLER This Dutch-built Donkervoort destroyed the lap record at the Nurburging Nordschleife, previously held by a Porsche Carrera GT, by almost fifteen seconds (7:18:01).”
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you're right, the cars looks very much like a Caterham but it has a 350 HP Audi engine and only weighs 600 Kilo (+/- 1200LBS), here are some pictures of the car:

32710.1.gen.jpg


29877.1.gen.jpg



a map with the speeds and split times:

29878.1.gen.jpg



this is the site of the car: http://www.donkervoort.nl/


previous record holders:

1995: Gemballa Turbo: 7 min 52 sec

1999: shk Porsche Turbo 7.46

2001: Techart GT 7.43

2001: Gemballa GTR60 7.32,52

2004: Porsche Carrera GT 7.32,44


(sources: http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=32706 - http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=29876)
 
fruitcake
you're right, the cars looks very much like a Caterham but it has a 350 HP Audi engine and only weighs 600 Kilo (+/- 1200LBS), here are some pictures of the car:

32710.1.gen.jpg


29877.1.gen.jpg



a map with the speeds and split times:

29878.1.gen.jpg



this is the site of the car: http://www.donkervoort.nl/


previous record holders:

1995: Gemballa Turbo: 7 min 52 sec

1999: shk Porsche Turbo 7.46

2001: Techart GT 7.43

2001: Gemballa GTR60 7.32,52

2004: Porsche Carrera GT 7.32,44


(sources: http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=32706 - http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=29876)
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Hardtop caterham look-a-like very cool! that must have a power to weight ratio of much much more expensive cars
 
Holy crap, that Donkey car is incredible! I'd never heard of it until now. I was still under the impression that the 7:19.xxx time that the Radical SR3 Turbo placed was the current record holder for a street-legal car.
 
supergoop
Even if GT4 was a PERFECT simulator, it will always be faster than "real" times. The "Fear Factor" alone will cause any driver to drive slower.

My best time was around 5'12. I achieved that about 4 times. I also crashed viciously about 100 times! How much risk will you take if this was a real race, knowing a single crash can kill you or at the least, destroy a very expensive car.
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Don't even dare blame these sub 5 minute times on "fear factor" There is not a 2 minute margin of error between taking the corner at 75 and taking the corner at 77, you're right it'll ad up. But not 120+ seconds add up.

If people would just except the fact that it's a GAME that PD overhyped to be a simulator, when it damn sure isn't it would make it much more enjoyable.
It's a GAME, it's not REAL, it's not close to REAL. So grab your "joystick" and Play-Drive
 
syclone538
In the February ’05 issue of Automobile magazine on page 20 there is a pic of a car I’ve never seen before with a caption that says
“CARRERA KILLER This Dutch-built Donkervoort destroyed the lap record at the Nurburging Nordschleife, previously held by a Porsche Carrera GT, by almost fifteen seconds (7:18:01).”
Click to expand...

The donkervoort is kinda like the caterham.


*edit*


Nevermind, just found out that you guys figured that out yourself. Being dutch I've already known these cars for years, I think they are god unforgiven ugly (fast though).
 
I pulled 7' 24" in a fully lightened (& exhaused, chipped, flywheeled and clutched) SLR. not bad for a 5 speed mercades.
 
smellysocks12
The donkervoort is kinda like the caterham.


*edit*


Nevermind, just found out that you guys figured that out yourself. Being dutch I've already known these cars for years, I think they are god unforgiven ugly (fast though).
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i also find them pretty ugly and very overpriced, i'd rather have a english one with the Hayabusha engine 👍

(ook hoi trouwens ;) )
 
does anyone even know if any LMP cars or F1 cars have been taken to nurburgring in real life?
The ring is supposed to be a testing field mostly with the occasional hotlapping right?
The carrera GT was most likely stock (~600hp). So maybe we could try using some sorta MR car with 600HP and a bit of downforce and see how close you get to that. I know it wouldnt be a carrera GT but itd be nearly same class.
 
They used to race F1 cars there but it became to dangerous so they changed the F1 circuit as we now know it :)

Nikki Lauda lost his ear on the old Nurb in a fire:

gpx962.jpg
 
I believe the old 250 and 500 GP motorcycle classes used to race there (K.R. Sr, Freddy Spencer, "Bazza" Sheene, et. al.) when men were men and something or other, but they didnt get fixed with titanium back then! Wonder if they'd concider the Isle of Mann full trip around... mmmm... Mad Sunday!!

I think my best is about 6:0~.ish. Been too busy doing everything else to spend a lot of time on one (extrememly long) track, but now Ive got a benchmark to hit....
 
Bellof did his lap in a 1983 956 Porche I thought.
sb-ring83.jpg


We are running the very last of the group C cars with more power (620 ish on the 956), less weight (956 was 800+kg), 10 years worth of downforce inrease and probably modern racing tyres.

So that adds up to the improvement of 60 secs or whatever people are doing round the ring in the fastest cars.

I just enjoy driving round there in road cars at the moment, moning about how much the track has been crippled since 1967. Its still great fun, but I miss the old jumps / blind bits / lack of grip. The group C / LMP make some prviously trick sections flat out.
 
I tried to stay away from race cars at Nurburgring, so it wouldn't spoil my fun with the BMWs and "Porsches." But I had to try the AMG Mercedes 190 E. I pulled a 7:02.343. I'm pretty happy with my unmodded, unassisted BMW M3 CSL doing a 7:48.993, with no wheels touching the grass.

I might try the LeMans cars at some point, and then "forget" I ever did.
 
Spada_05
Well that would have at least made sense. Obsolete would have been best. Better yet, how about adding something worth reading? What I find interesting is that in real life no car has ever been round the Nurburgring faster than 6 minutes? Is it just the lack of risk allowing people to set sub 5 minute times, or are these cars unrealisticly fast?
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People have done 5'11.xxx (I believe thats the best ever, group-C car I think)
 
Tenacious D
I tried to stay away from race cars at Nurburgring, so it wouldn't spoil my fun with the BMWs and "Porsches." But I had to try the AMG Mercedes 190 E. I pulled a 7:02.343. I'm pretty happy with my unmodded, unassisted BMW M3 CSL doing a 7:48.993, with no wheels touching the grass.

I might try the LeMans cars at some point, and then "forget" I ever did.
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I just hit a 7'10 in a stock CSL on R3s.
 
As some driving in GT is pretty unrealistic, one must take into account heavy modding of the cars we're driving.

As we put aside the "fear factor" (maybe 30 sec, which is approx. 0.176 sec per corner, so make it even more) and +200 HP in contrary to real-Nurb-driven-cars (another 45 sec.) and "uber" tyre grip (maybe even another 20 sec), and perfect conditions on track (10 sec?) you'll get the apprropriate times more-less.

But - put that aside. Every GT game has been slower then predecestor. I guess that GT5 will go even slower, making it more "real". Blah.

Yesterday I finally got my copy of Enthusia and first drive was Time-trial on Nurburgring with R390 LM - in Enthusia it has "stockly" 640 HP. I did 6:45:xxx lap in second attempt, with some skidding, some fence kissing and some outing. Assists off, no tyre choice available, no set-up avaliable.

So, even the other game, ahiled as "reaslitic then the simulator" makes times highly different from real - as I guess driving in margin of 6:10 would be possible in Enthusia with stock-power.

Used DS2, tommorow I'll make some DFP driving. Maybe I'll manage to record a comparasion video with the R390 from both games, but do not take that for granted.

Lack of widescreen support kills some thrill, that is for sure.

However, Konami did a nice job, but I guess they are not very happy with GT4's existance :). If there was no GT series, Enthusia would be a game to adore for Nurburgring. But, in my country people say "If the lady was a man, her name would be Donald".
 
4.48:890 with the Formula Gran Turismo

And the reason why we are so fast:
1. No fear of dying, wich makes a difference on this kind of track, and especially if its that long (Every corner a win is alot with 73 corners, it isn;t with 4 corners(beginner course))
2. There hasn't been a fast Formula one or Le masn car in years to drive that track, so if we drive it with cars that have never drove it and we compare to a Porsche we think damn thats fast.
 
I can get 4;52 with my Black Polyphony Digital F1 car, on R2 tyres, i'll try see if i can upload a lap of it somehow.
 
gtaddict
I can get 4;52 with my Black Polyphony Digital F1 car, on R2 tyres, i'll try see if i can upload a lap of it somehow.
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How can i upload a lap , cause i have a MaxDrive file with a replay

So if anyone knows how to get the vid working, tell me plaese
 
I usually plug my PS2 into my DVD recorder, record my laps onto a DVD, then rip em onto the pc.........so can't really help you out much there.
 
Can anyone tell me with a GT4 picture where exactly the Lauda crash was, and no bend names, cause i already heard "somewhere between Bergwerk and..." but somewhere on a 20 KM long track is alot, so is the exact place.

Thanks.
 
gtaddict
I can get 4;52 with my Black Polyphony Digital F1 car, on R2 tyres, i'll try see if i can upload a lap of it somehow.
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Please do! And while you're at it, let us know how you switched out the stock R3 tires. Gameshark?
 
I think it was last year...Ferrari's Shumacher and Barricello drove the ring in their F1 cars. I wonder what the lap times were.
 
as i allredy said the fastest ever lap was the late stefan bellof in his 956 porsche at about 6m10s, these cars had more downforce than todays race cars because they used to run with massive ground effects . I doubt very much that hardly any race cars, inckuding F1 would beat this if given the oppertunity today, at race speeds they probably wouldnt even touch the floor!!!
 
SammyXp
Please do! And while you're at it, let us know how you switched out the stock R3 tires. Gameshark?
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With Gameshark or any cheat device, you can do some interesting cheats. For example, you can modify the accelaration from 2x to 16x normal. 16x normal is very obvious (and hard to control), but 2x accelaration is very subtle. I am not saying that people are cheating, but it is possible.

As to changing the F1 tires, I haven't tried it, but I think it may be possible in Arcade mode. Also, you can increase the HP, reduce the weight, and increase the top speed in Arcade. This is big advantage for F1 cars, since you can't normally modify it.

The F1 cars are great in corners, but is "relatively" slow on long straights. On Nurburgring, there are at least 3 long sections that you'll probably need to reach ~390 km/hr. for a good lap. I think the F1's will lose a lot of time on the long straights and would be very difficult to run < 5 mins in Gran Turismo mode (not Arcade).
 
MR_GT
I think it was last year...Ferrari's Shumacher and Barricello drove the ring in their F1 cars. I wonder what the lap times were.
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Lol. that on the Nurburgring Grand Prix cicruit, do you really think thats 20,8 KM long? and that we do 5 minutes laps???
 
supergoop
With Gameshark or any cheat device, you can do some interesting cheats. For example, you can modify the accelaration from 2x to 16x normal. 16x normal is very obvious (and hard to control), but 2x accelaration is very subtle. I am not saying that people are cheating, but it is possible.

As to changing the F1 tires, I haven't tried it, but I think it may be possible in Arcade mode. Also, you can increase the HP, reduce the weight, and increase the top speed in Arcade. This is big advantage for F1 cars, since you can't normally modify it.

The F1 cars are great in corners, but is "relatively" slow on long straights. On Nurburgring, there are at least 3 long sections that you'll probably need to reach ~390 km/hr. for a good lap. I think the F1's will lose a lot of time on the long straights and would be very difficult to run < 5 mins in Gran Turismo mode (not Arcade).
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Euhm did you forget the 17 km long high speed corners in wich the f1 blasts everyone away?
 
Lol. that on the Nurburgring Grand Prix cicruit, do you really think thats 20,8 KM long? and that we do 5 minutes laps???
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Thanks for the heads up...until you pointed it out to me, I thought the Grand Prix circuit was over 20Km long and takes over 5 minutes. How dumb of me...LMAO

F1 test link - Of course it's the OLD TRACK (Duh!)

I wonder what the lap times were for the F1 cars when they did the testing with Shumi and Barricello...
 
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