Super Car Challenge

[Tired Tyres]

Based on what I've read online elsewhere, the only way I can unlock the 512M is by winning in Arcade, Intermediate level. If there's another way, that would be terrific.

I won that car last night in the Italian F430 Challenge after I won the 3rd event.

 

[Hereward]

First video footage is now out from Chandra and can be found at Joystiq (aka ps3 fanboy) shows the DB9 and the riviera fictional track, everything look smooth and theres now TWO in car views! colour pallet looks to be more realistic also. movement of the cars looks weighted and realistic aka FC and I'm impresed with the audio also! no doubt those more critical will pick up on a few points but I'll leave them to that, early build so I'll ignore any rough bits, saying that it already looks quite polised.
http://playstation.joystiq.com/2009...day-aka-the-post-valentines-edition/#supercar

 

[danjama]

Thanks for the link man, i think it looks promising and actually pretty orgasmic !!

I dont like the way their all crashing into each other, but as you said this is early beta, and probably means nothing!

 

[Hereward]

There are some on track pics of the FXX and the corvett over on the euthonix SC forum taken with the in game replay camera. there very impresive, I'll yag them onto this post later

 

[Biggles]

@ Lofasz; a bit off the SCC topic but I just wanted to say I went back to F1CE tonight after not playing for a while. I chose Silverstone, Quick Race, Hard, Sunny, Collisions on & 30%. It took me 23 starts before I managed to complete a race succesfully! FC is a walk in the park compared to F1CE!

(Not a criticism of F1CE, but FC really isn't anything like as hard as F1CE IMO.)

 

[amar212]

(Not a criticism of F1CE, but FC really isn't anything like as hard as F1CE IMO.)

Driving an F1 car is more demanding than driving a road-touring car

 

[danjama]

@ Lofasz; a bit off the SCC topic but I just wanted to say I went back to F1CE tonight after not playing for a while. I chose Silverstone, Quick Race, Hard, Sunny, Collisions on & 30%. It took me 23 starts before I managed to complete a race succesfully! FC is a walk in the park compared to F1CE!

(Not a criticism of F1CE, but FC really isn't anything like as hard as F1CE IMO.)

Hey how much previous experience do you have of F1CE biggles?

About a year ago i played F1CE daily but stopped in July time, and i went back to it the other night for a few laps on Montreal and although the game was very difficult to get into again, i was able to complete laps, it was just a matter of remembering braking points and tuning the cars. I gotta say i really want to get into it again, i forgot how awesome it was. I'm also half way through my second Championship with Honda which i forgot about.

 

[Biggles]

Hey how much previous experience do you have of F1CE biggles?

LOTS of experience - at least 250 hours. Yes, it takes a little time to re-learn the exact braking points & flow of the track in a F1 car. The thing is, making your way through the grid from last place (in Quick Race) is extremely difficult without clipping another car, getting clipped or spinning out at some point.

It is appropriateloy hard IMO, & makes the offline game very challenging & enjoyable (in a masochistic sort of way), I was just responding to Lofasz, who plays a lot of F1CE, complaining about how "frustrating" FC is - which I think is kind of amusing, given how truly frustrating F1CE can be...

 

[DaddyVDUB]

YES F1CE is truly "challenging" offline. Even though the AI do not fight you like in FC ,as it should be making it from p22 thru the field cleanly is VERY tough. Even though wrestling with the AI in FC is frustrating ( well when they best me) I would'nt want it any other way.👍

 

[Biggles]

Actually the AI cars in F1CE actively "get out of your way" as you come through (unless you do something unpredictable or overly aggressive) - it's the DAMAGE that makes racing so tricky - you have to push hard to be competitive, but one mistake, & it's all over.

The AI cars in FC aggressively defend the racing line, always moving to cut off the inside. However, it is usually fairly easy (too easy actually) to move around them on the OUTSIDE of a corner. Either way, both F1CE & FC are far superior to GT5P in offline events IMO.

I love the "close to the windscreen" cockpit view in SCC. THAT is the correct cockpit view IMO - when you're driving IRL, even though they ARE in your field of vision, you're not CONSCIOUS of seeing your hands & the steering wheel, so I think this SCC view may be the most "realistic" driving view so far. 👍

 

[Lofasz]

The faster pace of an F1 car definitely tests your reflexes more, than most if not all (don't have all, so I can say all yet) of the cars in FC. I'd say they're both challenging in their own ways. Playing either game can produce sweat on my brow and back . Doing your best, to push a car to the limit, can be extremely intense (at least it should be). Believe it or not, I believe my time behind my Logitech wheels has sharpened my reflexes a bit, for when I'm actually driving my cars on the road or track. In addition, I believe continued practice on simulators such as these, can help muscle memory, and allow you to focus more brain power on the immediate driving situation, as more of the mechanics become automatic. Damn, I love this stuff.👍

As you've said before, FC makes smooth turns quite challenging, due to how they model the weight transfer. Braking/Entering (not breaking & entering ), turning points, accelerating/exiting, you gotta be smooth throughout. I actually think F1CE is easier for me, but I've spent a lot more time with it, than FC. Heck, I was able to come in 3rd at Catalunya (a track I'm just beginning to like, i.e. just beginning to be fast on ), after being impatient with qualifying, and starting dead last. And that was on Hard career mode, in a McLaren. It wasn't at all annoying . I think a lot of that had to do with the AI. I like the aggressiveness of the AI in FC, but I find it rather annoying, the protecting of the inside line a prime example. In F1CE, the AI aren't trying to run you into the grass at all cost. However, it only takes one false move, and your wings/tires are gone, and your race is over, in F1CE. In FC, you can have a demo derby practically, and still finish the race in 1st.

Now if only we could get an online racing simulator, for the PS3, that allowed for smooth/close online racing, and full freedom to set up rooms and tuning setups. All in good time I suppose.

 

[danjama]

Yea that is one aspect i loved about F1CE, the damage was an genius implementation. I also love the oil slicks, the rush to avoid them was one of the best buzzes i've had from a racing game!

However, i remember one of the hardest races i've ever had on FC was in trophy mode in the 360M. The difficulty was on dynamic and the track was Paul Ricard, one of the tracks i now hate because this was one of the hardest damn races i have ever raced. In fact i attempted it at least ten times and always came about 3-5th. BUT i enjoyed it because it was such a challenge. The AI really were on form that day. What was strange was i came back the next day and beat it first time. Maybe i was just fatigued.

 

[jjaisli]

From scanning the Eutechnyx forum, I just learned that in SuperCar Challenge, you'll be able to 'flash your headlights' to warn cars ahead that you're coming to lap (or pass) them. I think this is a brilliant feature and one that makes a lot more sense than the ridiculous 'shaking fist'.

 

[Watevaman]

From scanning the Eutechnyx forum, I just learned that in SuperCar Challenge, you'll be able to 'flash your headlights' to warn cars ahead that you're coming to lap (or pass) them. I think this is a brilliant feature and one that makes a lot more sense than the ridiculous 'shaking fist'.

Well, the shaking fist is for people who pissed you off.

And I could've sworn FC had flashing headlights, just you couldn't do it.

 

[jjaisli]

Well, the shaking fist is for people who pissed you off.

Well, yeah, I understand that. But the thing is, no other player is ever going to see it, so I just find it rather pointless. They might as well have a code for combing your hair or flossing your teeth as well.

But flashing the lights is at least something which can be clearly seen by other players and it signifies intent.

 

[vicheous]

A competition for closed beta keys are now live here: http://www.ps3blog.eu.com/news/supercar-challenge-beta-key-competition/

 

[Tenacious D]

I'm beginning to feel Lofasz's pain. I can't even match the Time Trial limit on some of these tracks, and ones that shouldn't be that hard like Mugello. The racing line is only marginal help. Crank up the assists and I still can't do it. And like Lofasz, I don't have forever and a half to practice the darn things.

The problem is that all the driver cam positions suck. I can't drive the car as if I was driving a car because I can't see the track the way it's supposed to look. This game seems like Forza 2 all over again. The car models look like Forza 2. The racing graphics look like Forza 2. The replays look like Forza 2. The cars feel very reminiscent of Forza 2. The idiot bots drive like they do in Forza 2. It uses the same 90s style driver views of racing games like Forza 2, except it does have a cockpit. It even uses the dynamic racing/braking line of Forza 2. The livery editor is right out of Forza 2, just less of it, except you can apply window graphics, which is very sweet.

Now the connection I have with the car on the track is way better, thanks to the fabulous Driving Force Pro. But I'm having the very same issues I had racing in Forza 2, in that I can speed down a straight like I know what I'm doing, but turns are a fishing expedition. I overshoot. I brake early. I fuss trying to get through them and too often I can't handle them properly and earn a penalty or leave the track entirely. And of course all this coupled with more finicky physics and a mid-engined car makes racing much more of a chore than it should be. I have the perfect slogan.

"Ferrari Challenge: the real frustration simulator." Or better yet,

"Frustration Challenge: the real patience tester."

Gran Turismo 4 gave me the perfect driver cam positions. Or one in particular: roof cam. It gives me the ideal racing view. I can see the track much like I can in real life. I can watch turns approaching and take them with authority. I have automatic peripheral vision to my left and right. Say what you will about the physics, but it's way more than accurate enough to give you a satisfying racing experience. Like many of you, I still pull out GT4 from time to time because the racing is outstanding, as are the selection of cars and tracks.

Sadly, Ferrari Challenge is making me hungry for GT5, and having second thoughts about Supercar Challenge. It's looking like the same old views, with one extra cockpit view. And someone needs to tell every racing game maker, Polyphony included, that their cockpit views just aren't right. I need a proper racing view, or my connection to the car and the track is iffy at best, and I can't really race. If you can't give me the experience of racing a car, give me the tools to race the way a car needs to to win, then it's just another video game. And if I'm going to just be playing a videogame, I'd much rather be playing Ratchet & Clank, frankly. And I sure won't be racing online in any game but Gran Turismo.

I think I probly should join the Eutechnyx board and grouch there, rather than fuss at you guys.

 

[jjaisli]

Hi Tenacious,

Well, I'm sure Lofasz can speak for himself but during the weeks between his last post in this thread (Feb 18th) and our race the other night, he certainly seems to have come to grips with Ferrari Challenge and acquitted himself quite well. During a series of races with three players who had never actually raced a particular car (the FXX), he managed to finish ahead of me several times. The racing in FC is, if you'll pardon the pun, quite challenging. But I think it makes it even more rewarding when you slowly come to grips with the cars. Don't give up on it. And don't necessarily judge your pace solely on racing the AI.

As to the driving view, I tend to switch between bonnet view and in-car view, depending on the car. I agree that the bonnet view seems just a little too close to the track and doesn't allow you to see far enough 'up' the track. It's even worse in bumper view which in a sense I prefer but gave up on it long ago. Generally I race from in-car view simply because it offers a more 'realistic' view in terms of what you'd see driving a real car. And I also thought it gives me a better feel for corner entry and apex. With bonnet view I always felt I was turning in too late. But with many of the cars, the view from in cockpit is just too restricted. The FXX mentioned above is a prefect example.

The view is something you kind of get used to. Although I admit, when I play GT5 (even though I don't race with roof view) and I switch back to Ferrari Challenge the low down position of bonnet view and the PS2 quality graphics of in-car view kind of gnaw at me. One thing that Supercar Challenge will offer is a superb in-car view where only the top of the dash and edges of the window are visible. It's the most realistic looking in-car view I've seen to date and I already know just from the screen shot, that's how I'll be driving. It looks very promising so there's certainly hope and anticipation on the horizon.

 

[GTP_ENERGIYA]

I am sure GT5 will match supercar challenge in-car view, will have to wait a while.

What is due to be released first, GT5 or Supercar challenge.

 

[Tenacious D]

One thing that Supercar Challenge will offer is a superb in-car view where only the top of the dash and edges of the window are visible. It's the most realistic looking in-car view I've seen to date and I already know just from the screen shot, that's how I'll be driving. It looks very promising so there's certainly hope and anticipation on the horizon.

I'm not really giving up on it, but it does bug me that these racing games show a lack of imagination or inability to try something someone else does. As I say, FC is practically FM2 with refined physics, so I'm beginning to believe they simply licensed the FM2 engine from Microsoft. And for all I know, MS will license back the tweaks Eutechnyx made to their own engine!

Really, this is the 21st Century, and supposedly we're all about choice, so it's about time devs gave us the ability to define our own darn driver views. However, that up front view you describe does give me some hope, as that was one of the views in Toca, and the only one which was worth a darn as far as cockpit views I've seen yet. But as for online, if I'm handicapped by the driver view, I'm not feeling very happy about ever racing online. But with all things, we'll see.

As for who's coming out first, given Poly's slipping release dates, I'd think Supercar Challenge this summer, GT5 this fall, winter or early 2010.

 

[Hun200kmh]

@Tenacious D: you can check out the views available for SCC in this promo-beta video


http://www.videogamer.com/videos/supercar_challenge_camera_angles_feature.html

 

[jjaisli]

What is due to be released first, GT5 or Supercar challenge.

I'm going to be conservative and say...neither.

 

[jjaisli]

I'm not really giving up on it...

👍 Excellent!

...but as for online, if I'm handicapped by the driver view, I'm not feeling very happy about ever racing online...

I'm not on-line every night. But when I am, it's usually between 0:00 and 4:00 GMT. If you're on during that time and see me hosting a lobby, send me a PSN message. Most of the time we're not really having "serious" races like the ladder events. We're just out there having fun and I'll be happy to invite you in where you can run at your own pace.

 

[Biggles]

Tenacious: if you're having trouble beating the AI in FC (especially on an easier difficulty setting) you are either a spectacularly incompetent driver, or you haven't practiced enough yet. I suspect it's most likely the latter.

The degree of difficulty in FC doesn't even begin to approach F1CE (particularly if you play F1CE with damage activated) & it seems to me it was also way harder in Forza 1 (haven't really played Forza 2). It does, of course, take a while to learn the tracks & get a feel for the physics & FFB, then there is a gradual learning curve to reach the point where you can compete with the AI on the hardest setting. However, although the AI puts up a decent battle, I have absolutely no trouble being faster than the AI on the hardest setting - the only question being, can I pass enough cars in the available time (shades of Gran Turismo)?

A good option is to play in Quick Race mode against a single opponent car. This will show you pretty clearly how your performance measures up, without having to bulldoze your way through a full grid of cars. The AI is aggressive & is much more reactive than in GT4 or GT5P, but its major trick is to always cut in to prevent you taking the inside line on corners. If you pass on the outside you shouldn't have any problems.

The cockpit view in FC isn't good (nowhere near as usable as in GT5P) & the bumper view is too low, but I think the bonnet view works quite well. The new SCC in-car view looks like it will be very good.

I think you will enjoy racing online. Really the major shortcoming of FC is the lack of online participation, so we can use every new recruit!

I'm thinking August for SCC & December for GT5...

 

[Hun200kmh]

Concerning "the lack of online participants" ... where have you been hiding lately?


Oh ... and btw, do you have a PAL copy of GT5P?

 

[Biggles]

Concerning "the lack of online participants" ... where have you been hiding lately?


Oh ... and btw, do you have a PAL copy of GT5P?

I've been travelling & unable to race online. Also, I've got this really strange & annoying problem with my G25, which is taking some of the fun out of driving.

No, I only have a NTSC copy of GT5P.

 

[Tenacious D]

Tenacious: if you're having trouble beating the AI in FC (especially on an easier difficulty setting) you are either a spectacularly incompetent driver, or you haven't practiced enough yet. I suspect it's most likely the latter.

Yes, it's the latter, mostly. To be sure, unless I'm spot on getting around opponents, I invariably have to bash through a pair of them to advance, and that irritates me. But then it seems all racing games have that silly hang up for some reason. The problem as I said is that I sort of stumble through turns. Mostly okay, but rarely as I would like, and strictly because of the view of the track. I have to use chase view, and that's a problem with a game so finicky, because you're basically judging the race a fraction of a second late. You take a turn, and you can't see the road because the camera lags, so you have to guess. AARGH. This is why I'm pretty much resigned to only playing GT5/Prologue online, or really enjoying the game.

And I have to say that the bot AI is all right, but it's not shy about using me for a brake, or shoving me off the road in a turn. I do need to practice the tracks, but it does suck that if I don't know a track too well in GT4 or Prologue, I can see the track well enough to do well. In FC, it's hopeless. As a result, I have all of three cars so far. Sigh... guess I'll do some time laps, and in a few weeks, I might get to know this hairy beast well enough to be worth a spit. And have a few cars.

And then, yeah, if you guys don't mind me ramming you off the road because I'm late breaking, I'll give online a go sometime.

Edit: well, this is beginning to cheeze me off. The tracks are locked after the first 4 or 5 unless I start setting some records. And I can't set any records because I can't find a driver view that lets me see the faqing track properly. I'm beginning to hate this game, and I don't want to, but if the makers won't give me the ability to do more than flounder around chicanes like a 10 year old, someone epic failed somewhere.

I think I'd better go play some GT4 for a while. Hell, I can fly around the Nurb because I can see the thing in any car, downforce or not, racing tires or sport. I might go look for a game save because this is giving me an ulcer.

 

[Biggles]

Yes, it's the latter, mostly. To be sure, unless I'm spot on getting around opponents, I invariably have to bash through a pair of them to advance, and that irritates me. But then it seems all racing games have that silly hang up for some reason. The problem as I said is that I sort of stumble through turns. Mostly okay, but rarely as I would like, and strictly because of the view of the track. I have to use chase view, and that's a problem with a game so finicky, because you're basically judging the race a fraction of a second late. You take a turn, and you can't see the road because the camera lags, so you have to guess. AARGH. This is why I'm pretty much resigned to only playing GT5/Prologue online, or really enjoying the game.

And I have to say that the bot AI is all right, but it's not shy about using me for a brake, or shoving me off the road in a turn. I do need to practice the tracks, but it does suck that if I don't know a track too well in GT4 or Prologue, I can see the track well enough to do well. In FC, it's hopeless. As a result, I have all of three cars so far. Sigh... guess I'll do some time laps, and in a few weeks, I might get to know this hairy beast well enough to be worth a spit. And have a few cars.

And then, yeah, if you guys don't mind me ramming you off the road because I'm late breaking, I'll give online a go sometime.

Edit: well, this is beginning to cheeze me off. The tracks are locked after the first 4 or 5 unless I start setting some records. And I can't set any records because I can't find a driver view that lets me see the faqing track properly. I'm beginning to hate this game, and I don't want to, but if the makers won't give me the ability to do more than flounder around chicanes like a 10 year old, someone epic failed somewhere.

I think I'd better go play some GT4 for a while. Hell, I can fly around the Nurb because I can see the thing in any car, downforce or not, racing tires or sport. I might go look for a game save because this is giving me an ulcer.

All the tracks are available in Challenge mode. All you have to do is come in the top three in a Challenge race to unlock the track & make it available in other modes (like TT). Set a long race time - which I think allows you a longer qualifying time - practice the track in qualifying a few times by restarting, then run a long race in Easy mode to give you more time on the track to familiarize yourself with the track & give you more time to overtake the other cars & get into the top three. It's not hard!

I only race the AI on the hardest setting - they never brake check me or ram me, they will cut you off if you try & corner inside them. If you're coming into contact with the AI cars, it's because you're braking too early or late - you just need more practice! (It would be the same IRL).

The cockpit view is not great, the bonnet view works fine. Yes, the visuals & frame rate are not as clear as GT5P, but I don't find it inhibits my driving at all. The "look-back" view, while not realistic is a very useful game-aid.

The AI is not perfect, but it is significantly better than in GT4, Enthusia, GT5P, & sort of on a par (although very different from) F1CE. How you can find the progression through FC frustrating compared to, say, the wretched, repetitive & boring LICENSE TESTS in GT4 (with the exception of the BMW Nurburgring lap & a few others ) is totally beyond me.

Suck it up, stick at it & KEEP PRACTICING! I'll bet you spent HUNDREDS of hours at GT4: you need to devote at least 20 - 30 hours to FC to start to get the hang of it. Think of it as a series of "license tests" if that makes it more appealing!

 

[Lofasz]

. . . Well, I'm sure Lofasz can speak for himself but during the weeks between his last post in this thread (Feb 18th) and our race the other night, he certainly seems to have come to grips with Ferrari Challenge and acquitted himself quite well. . .

Thanks jjaisli 👍. The main source of my earlier frustration was that I was trying to unlock the cars, in the hardest way posible - in Arcade mode. Once I found that I could do so, simply by winning the Challenge events (even in easy mode), the game became much more enjoyable. I was just getting sooooo tired of the F430 (this would never happen, if it was the 911 GT3 in "Porsche Challenge"). I still have a few more cars to unlock, but being able to drive many of the vintage cars has been a real treat. The recent online experiences haven't been to shabby either👍.

I hope Tenatious D gets the hang of it too, the more the merrier. Keep in mind D, this isn't the best game in the world, this is just a tribute .

 

[Tenacious D]

All the tracks are available in Challenge mode. All you have to do is come in the top three in a Challenge race to unlock the track & make it available in other modes (like TT). Set a long race time - which I think allows you a longer qualifying time - practice the track in qualifying a few times by restarting, then run a long race in Easy mode to give you more time on the track to familiarize yourself with the track & give you more time to overtake the other cars & get into the top three. It's not hard!

Says you.

Actually, rather than quitting, I started over, which was an accomplishment in itself, because I had already wasted two nights racing trying to get through the Italian Challenge, and I wasn't feeling too happy at going back to square one yet again. But I decided to stop taking the game seriously and set it on beginner mode, short races, use the racing line, and so now, naturally, I'm romping through them.

I only race the AI on the hardest setting - they never brake check me or ram me, they will cut you off if you try & corner inside them. If you're coming into contact with the AI cars, it's because you're braking too early or late - you just need more practice! (It would be the same IRL).

I think you missed the point of my lengthy grouch.

Yes, exactly, I brake too early and late, because I can't see the freaking track right. Practice isn't going to magically give me the driver views I want. Maybe I'll make a few less mistakes, maybe, but I'm not too sure on that. If you can't see the way you want, how is any amount of practice going to help? The framerate is fine. Their 30fps looks decent. I've tried all the views, the different camera settings, they all suck. I guess those are the views you've been using ever since racing games were born. Sorry, but I need something remotely like real life, and so far, no one has been able to touch the view provided by GT4 or GT5 Prologue. GT4 especially, it's just about perfect. And no one can connect me to a car like Gran Turismo.

The AI is not perfect, but it is significantly better than in GT4, Enthusia, GT5P, & sort of on a par (although very different from) F1CE. How you can find the progression through FC frustrating compared to, say, the wretched, repetitive & boring LICENSE TESTS in GT4 (with the exception of the BMW Nurburgring lap & a few others ) is totally beyond me.

As for the bots, you may be right, but I'm not sure. See, they've also flown past me into the penalty zones off track, so something's out of whack somewhere. Maybe that's just their stupidity on non-punishing mode, and that's what they all do. I dunno. I'm not complaining about it per se, but the bots on GT5 Prologue drive like the folk I've met online lately, which is challenging but not rowdy. The bots on FC are rowdy. Oh well.

Suck it up, stick at it & KEEP PRACTICING! I'll bet you spent HUNDREDS of hours at GT4: you need to devote at least 20 - 30 hours to FC to start to get the hang of it. Think of it as a series of "license tests" if that makes it more appealing!

Well, I'll have to tell you that GT4 was a kind of an epiphany when I first tried it. Yeah, I wasn't able to drive it like GT3, but then each GT game is a refinement and progression towards realism. But the view, ZOMG, it was awesome, and on PS2 graphics no less. Objects in the distance were just pixels at first, but they had a perceptible distance like real life has. I can watch a turn coming as if I'm in my car, and I can tackle it like I would in an actual car. Other games, like Ferrari Challenge? Well, they're kind of a guessing game. If I mess up in GT, I have a pretty good idea why. Other games, I often have no clue, and usually just take turns slower.

It's a good game, what Forza 2 should have been - with FM2's graphics anyhow. But if I race against you guys, be prepared to get punted occasionally. At least now I should be able to unlock those cars and tracks.