T10 forcing PD's Hand?

[Bogie 19th]

Why is there no window nets on the FM3 cars? I guess they have their reasons

I don't know, I don't work for them?

 

[Devedander]

Why is there no window nets on the FM3 cars? I guess they have their reasons

Maybe the window net is down inside the door right now? Is that how they work?

But more likely I would think is that they didn't program in a cloth/net texture in that area of the car since it would be one off for that kind of car only and the rest of the cars just have glass there... I wonder if the drag from an open window would be factored into how those cars drive...

 

[RACECAR]

Why is there no window nets on the FM3 cars? I guess they have their reasons

Good question, makes no sense to not have them if these are supposed to represent real stock cars.

Guess you haven't been watching it as close as I, nor did you seem to realize that I too had the older models. Justin Lloyd (friend of mine) still is using his Monte Carlo.

Admittingly, I have only been watching it for three years now as I didn't find out about until 2007 so forgive me if I came off abit snobbish in the last post.

I am completely aware of the body differences. We have a shop just south of Deerfield Wisconsin. We have our own frame build and repair system, and we do all but put the shells together there.

Other than being to no less than 300 NASCAR/REMAX races in my life, I am pretty confident how we build the cars.

Again, I don't mean to sound like a snob and I definately wasn't questioning what you know about the Monto Carlo, I was just saying how I myself had not seen alot of those taurus or the older Monte Carlos and I'm also just stumped on how all Chevy does is just throws on new Tail light decals and new front decals and "look,its a Impala SS!". At first I thought the body was different until I actually saw one up close and only then did I came to that conclusion. Interestingly, I noticed the braces I've seen on the spoilers aren't really present most of the time like they used to be.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Exactly. It makes no sense to even make a game if they can't represent anything perfectly. I think we should take all the sims off the store shelves. Not a single one can do them right.

 

[paskowitz]

Personally I think this thread is silly (yet I am posting in it... yeah I am bored). If there is one thing we know it is that PD does not look at the competition as much as the competition looks at PD. Whenever PD talks about GT they always say "this is what we are doing to make GT better". Conversely GT's competitors almost always say something along the lines of "this is what we are doing that GT/no other sim can do/is doing (even if that statement is not completely true)and our product is the best" and as a rule almost always mention or referring to GT in some way. PD is quietly confident in their product and to be honest the only thing that has influenced them has been us (begging for damage). Otherwise they just do their own thing. So no, T10 is not forcing PD's hand. PD could care less what T10 are doing. If GT5 does have things FM3 has (livery editor etc) it will be done in PD's own way and own style. Really, just look at the attitudes of each company, it paints a pretty clear picture who is "worried" about who.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

Well not really, Isn't it the other way around? Turn10 find's out GT5 will have "Real" authentic "nascar" And what do they do? Put out Blank stock car's, They could have at least used the 2009 season body style, But no they went with 2001 style,Even just put on Blank tires.. With that said I'm pretty sure some painters are going create some unremarkable liveries. But no matter how unremarkable They are not real, It will still say Chevy stock car where as GT5 will say #24 DuPont Chevrolet Monte Carlo. and probably most likely give a detailed info on the driver.

 

[Northstar]

Well not really, Isn't it the other way around? Turn10 find's out GT5 will have "Real" authentic "nascar" And what do they do? Put out Blank stock car's, They could have at least used the 2009 season body style, But no they went with 2001 style,Even just put on Blank tires.. With that said I'm pretty sure some painters are going create some unremarkable liveries. But no matter how unremarkable They are not real, It will still say Chevy stock car where as GT5 will say #24 DuPont Chevrolet Monte Carlo. and probably most likely give a detailed info on the driver.

I'm guessing they couldn't use the CoT style body since it is patented by NASCAR where as basic late models(which they are) are not.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

I'm guessing they couldn't use the CoT style body since it is patented by NASCAR where as basic late models(which they are) are not.

Oh yea that is true, Thank you for clearing that up. It just look's really weird seeing a Dodge charger livery on a 2001 Dodge intrebid stock car looking body.

 

[Tenacious D]

Really, just look at the attitudes of each company, it paints a pretty clear picture who is "worried" about who.

A certain car game coming out this month shows off their rides in the showroom exactly the same way Prologue does.

 

[scandisk]

A certain car game coming out this month shows off their rides in the showroom exactly the same way Prologue does.

When I first saw F3's car selection screen, I was like "the 🤬 thats like Prologue's showroom"

 

[serversurfer]

T10 invented that showroom view in 1893, and then everyone else in the industry copied it.

 

[Bogie 19th]

A certain car game coming out this month shows off their rides in the showroom exactly the same way Prologue does.

Here we go with games copying other games. A certain car game coming out in March will have damage like some other sim game that I know on consoles.

 

[TBR 427]

Exactly. It makes no sense to even make a game if they can't represent anything perfectly. I think we should take all the sims off the store shelves. Not a single one can do them right.

Not even the RFP sims the F1 teams can do it will represent lap times to 0.001 seconds. Yet it's still used.


I have no problems with simulators, when they do everything they can, and don't gimp the whole idea.

It's when something COULD be better, yet it's softened and simplified and turned into a cartoon that pisses me (and a lot of people) off.

That's the main reason I hated the tracks in F2; they had the 100% scale versions, and it wouldn't have been impossible to add bumpyness in the right places...but they scaled them up to 125% and made them flatter and wider for better online racing. TBH, that kinda defeats the purpose of having that track in the game, if it's nothing like reality. Heck, it's considered, architecturally (in Aus, at least) to be an original design if it's that different.

Failures that annoy me:
simplified physics (a la standard mode in GT5P)
stupid versions of hard tracks for stupid players (in Forza 1, 2 and from what they've shown 3)
Twilight's take on vampires.
Those stupid Star Wars cartoon CGI pieces of fail.
Damage in GT5, Forza, pretty-much everything. SIMULATE IT THE BEST YOU CAN OR ABANDON SHIP LOL.

Here we go with games copying other games. A certain car game coming out in March will have damage like some other sim game that I know on consoles.

better to have an option to turn it off...but I can hear the artists as PD crying...making the best looking cars in a game and having to see them ruined. Surely keeping them shiny would be far better to look at, right?

 

[Simple SIM]

Well not really, Isn't it the other way around? Turn10 find's out GT5 will have "Real" authentic "nascar" And what do they do? Put out Blank stock car's, They could have at least used the 2009 season body style, But no they went with 2001 style,Even just put on Blank tires.. With that said I'm pretty sure some painters are going create some unremarkable liveries. But no matter how unremarkable They are not real, It will still say Chevy stock car where as GT5 will say #24 DuPont Chevrolet Monte Carlo. and probably most likely give a detailed info on the driver.

I think it's cool that Turn 10 allow people to make their own NASCARS. I also think it's cool that Polyphony modeled a bunch for us.

I also think neither game will do NASCAR any justice. A real NASCAR race has 43 cars on track.

 

[RACECAR]

One thing I'm stumped on is how Forza 3 will only have 8 players online. I think to myself "Are you serious?" as everyone else has had more then 8 players. Maybe they don't have a server capable of holding more then that many people? You would think with the community it has, that aspect of online would have a big improvement.

 

[Bogie 19th]

One thing I'm stumped on is how Forza 3 will only have 8 players online. I think to myself "Are you serious?" as everyone else has had more then 8 players. Maybe they don't have a server capable of holding more then that many people? You would think with the community it has, that aspect of online would have a big improvement.

I think it's a combination of the 4100 layers that you can add to each of the cars on the track, and the physics that each car is producing that makes it too much to handle for the console.

 

[RACECAR]

Failures that annoy me:
simplified physics (a la standard mode in GT5P)
stupid versions of hard tracks for stupid players (in Forza 1, 2 and from what they've shown 3)
Twilight's take on vampires.
Those stupid Star Wars cartoon CGI pieces of fail.
Damage in GT5, Forza, pretty-much everything. SIMULATE IT THE BEST YOU CAN OR ABANDON SHIP LOL.

Funny thing is, I always thought that movie looked cheesy and that was just from looking at the commercials.

 

[TwentyValve]

I think it's a combination of the 4100 layers that you can add to each of the cars on the track, and the physics that each car is producing that makes it too much to handle for the console.

that is what raises questions for me. they seem to be sacrificing the racing experience for fluff, in a way. they seem to be more concerned about everything but racing, which is what the game is suposed to be about.

 

[chepe371]

One thing I'm stumped on is how Forza 3 will only have 8 players online.

Forza has 8 'players' period. online offline. 8. Cuz even at compromised resolutions they still only squeeze in 2\3 of a dozen. Sigh.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Here we go with games copying other games. A certain car game coming out in March will have damage like some other sim game that I know on consoles.

Dont get me wrong, but this analogy is dumb.
Copying a design of something like a UI is something completely different then implementing a feature that others games since the 90s (well more or less) have and people want since 10 years.

Making the game more realistic is not copying from Forza.

But the FM3 showroom clearly looks just like the one from Prologue with slightly different camera angles, why not use the one from FM2, with some small changes?

 

[Bogie 19th]

that is what raises questions for me. they seem to be sacrificing the racing experience for fluff, in a way. they seem to be more concerned about everything but racing, which is what the game is suposed to be about.

With their anal and endless attention to physics, it seems they are focused extremely hard on racing.

Dont get me wrong, but this analogy is dumb.

Your opinion is noted.

 

[G.T.Ace]

See, this is why people think you are a fanboy.
You dont even argue, have you at least read the rest of my post?

 

[Simple SIM]

that is what raises questions for me. they seem to be sacrificing the racing experience for fluff, in a way. they seem to be more concerned about everything but racing, which is what the game is suposed to be about.

From the Inside SIM Racing Forza 3 review.....

Sounds 9.5 / 10 - "a benchmark setter"

A.I. 4.25 / 5 "Great AI, benchmark setting in the industry"

Damage 5/5 - "We think this SIM sets the benchmark for realism in all racing SIMs. It even beats out iRacing"

Physics 13/15

"these physics are amazing"

"iRacing, NetCarPro, rFactor any top tier PC Racing SIM, Forza 3's Physics are up there with the very best the PC has to offer. Forza 3's cars drive like real cars"


Yeah they really seem to have sacrificed the racing experience for fluff.

 

[Bogie 19th]

See, this is why people think you are a fanboy.
You dont even argue, have you at least read the rest of my post?

And this is why people think you are a fanboy, because you can't accept other people's opinions. Try it once, it won't hurt.

 

[chepe371]

Fellas you know where this is gonna go, the thing we are discussing is IF T10 has any influence on GT5.

I dont think you need another game to bite off, to know you have to have damage, the fans BEEN asking for damage.

Speaking of Influences however, i must point out Gran Turismo was the first game of it's kind , the concept i mean, and therefore GT is the grandaddy but more like the Sensei, to all other games of the sort(rpg\sim racer type)

Wouldn't be any Forza if GT hadn't existed.

And of course Forza blatantly ripped off the showroom, cuz they know its classy.

 

[G.T.Ace]

You didnt even state an opinion.
You just, more or less, said "PD copied the damage model of Forza", this is not an opinion, thats a false statement. You cant say to everything "thats my opinion". Thats like saying "Coca Cola is green, thats my opinion, live with it".

 

[Bogie 19th]

The Gran Turismo series looked at other racing games out there when each version has been produced over the years. GT didn't invent the racing line, GT didn't invent racing, GT didn't invent restart race, GT didn't invent online racing, GT didn't invent replays, GT didn't invent racing physics. What they did do is look at all those features, and they added them, or they added them and improved upon them. They looked at what was out there that appeared to be successful (or could be more successful) and put it on their drawing board.

Same with Forza. Not to mention all of the above falls under that same umbrella with Turn 10, but they saw a screensaver or showroom feature in GT that looked to be successful, and looked good. They chose to take it to the drawing board, implement a similar feature, put their own touches on it, and release it to the public.

So personally, I see no reason to find another negative check mark about a game based on the fact that it's offering a feature that is similar to another title in the racing genre, when EVERY single game does it.

And yes, that is my opinion.

 

[TwentyValve]

From the Inside SIM Racing Forza 3 review.....

Sounds 9.5 / 10 - "a benchmark setter"

A.I. 4.25 / 5 "Great AI, benchmark setting in the industry"

Damage 5/5 - "We think this SIM sets the benchmark for realism in all racing SIMs. It even beats out iRacing"

Physics 13/15

"these physics are amazing"

"iRacing, NetCarPro, rFactor any top tier PC Racing SIM, Forza 3's Physics are up there with the very best the PC has to offer. Forza 3's cars drive like real cars"


Yeah they really seem to have sacrificed the racing experience for fluff.

What does this prove? This is just their opinion of the game as was mine. One big thing to keep in mind is they have the full game, i only have the demo. After getting the full game my opinion may change. Why does everyone keep quoting that one review? From what others have said FM3 was getting great reviews from all over, so why just this one review?

 

[Bogie 19th]

What does this prove? This is just their opinion of the game as was mine. One big thing to keep in mind is they have the full game, i only have the demo. After getting the full game my opinion may change. Why does everyone keep quoting that one review? From what others have said FM3 was getting great reviews from all over, so why just this one review?

If you read above in previous posts, people were dismissing insideSimRacing as a legit review source, and they were saying that insideSimRacing said the game was for casuals, not the hardcore. They were saying the review score was good for the fluff and wasn't really considering actual racing. And yet, the opposite is true. That is why he quoted it.

 

[Scaff]

That the Forza showroom looks a bit like the GT5 one is not exactly worth getting worked up over, as has been said its not as if all title don't 'nick' bits that work from each other.

Take the Ferrari Challenge livery editor, its almost exactly the same as the Forza one, they didn't do it to try and fool people, they did it because it works well as a concept (they could however have a least tried to be a little less obvious about it).

One thing I would caution some of you on, is that we don't yet know what GT5 will look like from an user interface point of view. I would be wary of getting to high and mighty about a copied showroom, as it could lead to being rather embarrassed when GT5 releases.


Regards

Scaff