Taxes

Danoff
They were not a majority, and not even a plurality. As you said, it was an EC vote. Beyond that though, people who voted for trump did not necessarily support tariffs. Some of them did, to be sure. But some of them were voting "against" Hillary and making a confusing mess out of the speech of voting.
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I agree fully with you and I still dont understand why people support the EC. But taxes and government expenditure are determined by majority vote.
 
PocketZeven
In my country we differentiate between "excise" or duty and Taxes. Excise/duty is used as a deterrent. Taxes have the goal to fund government expenditure.
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Where does the money from excise/duty go? What's the difference between duty on a product and VAT (or purchase tax) - which is a tax - on the same product in terms of where the money comes from and where the money goes to?

This seems to be a case of "no, it's a drake actually".
 
Famine
Where does the money from excise/duty go? What's the difference between duty on a product and VAT (or purchase tax) - which is a tax - on the same product in terms of where the money comes from and where the money goes to?

This seems to be a case of "no, it's a drake actually".
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Where the duty/excise money goes is irrelevant to my statement. I was answering to the statement that Taxes work, when used as punishment or deterrent. I just made a differentiation in my country between tax (excise/duty) with the goal as punishment or deterrent and tax with the goal of funding. Sales tax and income tax is not used to prevent income or sales.
 
PocketZeven
Sales tax and income tax is not used to prevent income or sales.
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Really? You have no "sin" taxes? I mean, even if it's not used for that purpose, it still causes that particular behavior. But we explicitly tax things like cigarettes for "the greater good".
 
PocketZeven
Where the duty/excise money goes is irrelevant to my statement.
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It really isn't. If your statement is "In my country we differentiate between "excise" or duty and Taxes. Excise/duty is used as a deterrent. Taxes have the goal to fund government expenditure." and excise/duty also funds government expenditure, it's entirely relevant to why there's a distinction.
PocketZeven
I just made a differentiation in my country between tax (excise/duty) with the goal as punishment or deterrent and tax with the goal of funding. Sales tax and income tax is not used to prevent income or sales.
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Sales tax/VAT/purchase tax is used for precisely that. Lowering VAT is pretty much the bottom rung of economic stimulation - by reducing the penalty for consumption, it stimulates consumption.
 
Famine
It really isn't. If your statement is "In my country we differentiate between "excise" or duty and Taxes. Excise/duty is used as a deterrent. Taxes have the goal to fund government expenditure." and excise/duty also funds government expenditure, it's entirely relevant to why there's a distinction.

Sales tax/VAT/purchase tax is used for precisely that. Lowering VAT is pretty much the bottom rung of economic stimulation - by reducing the penalty for consumption, it stimulates consumption.
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Funding the government is a secondary consequence though. I am referring to its primary function. Fining lawbreakers have the goal to deter breaking laws, but also fund the government. Excise too, they both fund the government, but also too discourage purchase. Or are you claiming that tax and duty/excise have the same function?

edit:
Danoff
Really? You have no "sin" taxes? I mean, even if it's not used for that purpose, it still causes that particular behavior. But we explicitly tax things like cigarettes for "the greater good".
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We do. I just stated that we differentiate the two. "sin"taxes on for example cigarettes and alcohol are called excise and not tax.

edit2: edited accidently wrong sentence
 
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PocketZeven
Funding the government is a secondary consequence though.
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How is it secondary? It literally functions by taking money and putting into the Exchequer. That's how it works, even in hypothecated tax systems.
 
PocketZeven
Do VAT and excise/duty have the same function?
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Yes.
Famine
It literally functions by taking money and putting into the Exchequer. That's how it works, even in hypothecated tax systems.
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Famine
Sales tax/VAT/purchase tax is used for precisely that. Lowering VAT is pretty much the bottom rung of economic stimulation - by reducing the penalty for consumption, it stimulates consumption.
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VAT is a prime example of a tax that does what you say a duty does - punishes or encourages purchase of goods and services.

As I say, this is a case of "it's a drake actually".
 
Famine
Yes.


VAT is a prime example of a tax that does what you say a duty does - punishes or encourages purchase of goods and services.

As I say, this is a case of "it's a drake actually".
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I think its use varies in different countries. In the netherlands it is only used on tabacco, soft drinks, fossil fuels and tabacco. The government changes it from period to period. While true that governments can use VAT as a tool to discourage purchase, I am curious why any government would want to discourage consumption?

I dont understand that reference.
 
PocketZeven
We do. I just stated that we differentiate the two. "sin"taxes on for example cigarettes and alcohol are called excise and not tax.
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I see. You're just defining some of them as "for punishment" and some of them as "for profit". Even though all of them effectively punish and cause "profit".

Edit:

Here, we mix that, intentionally. For example, we have gambling sin taxes which are designed to discourage gambling, and the tax itself is used for something fairly unrelated, like public education. That's because the sin tax gets passed more easily when it's "for a good cause".
 
Danoff
I see. You're just defining some of them as "for punishment" and some of them as "for profit". Even though all of them effectively punish and cause "profit".
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I think it works differently in the netherlands. The socalled "Excise" is only applied to tabacco, fossil fuels, alcohol and soft drinks. (additional to sales tax applied to all consumer goods)

Danoff
I see. You're just defining some of them as "for punishment" and some of them as "for profit". Even though all of them effectively punish and cause "profit".

Edit:

Here, we mix that, intentionally. For example, we have gambling sin taxes which are designed to discourage gambling, and the tax itself is used for something fairly unrelated, like public education. That's because the sin tax gets passed more easily when it's "for a good cause".
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Is this sintax paid by the consumer or the casino?
 
PocketZeven
The US using excise differently.
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Right... I'm gathering that you define some taxes as being "for punishment" and some taxes being "for profit" even though all taxes effectively do both.

PocketZeven
Is this sintax paid by the consumer or the casino?
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In colorado I believe we do both. We tax the casino (extra) on profits, and we also tax the gamblers at the time of purchase (I think). And we also tax gambling winnings federally as income.
 
Danoff
Right... I'm gathering that you define some taxes as being "for punishment" and some taxes being "for profit" even though all taxes effectively do both.



In colorado I believe we do both. We tax the casino (extra) on profits, and we also tax the gamblers at the time of purchase (I think). And we also tax gambling winnings federally as income.
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Like I state above, in the netherlands Excise is applied in conjunction to VAT to deter the use of certain consumer goods.

That said, Why would any government try to reduce consumption?
 
PocketZeven
Like I state above, in the netherlands Excise is applied in conjunction to VAT to deter the use of certain consumer goods.

That said, Why would any government try to reduce consumption?
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Besides resource scarcity or health/environmental reasons?
 
I hate filing taxes!!

I have to file my taxes myself for the first time in 14 years! It's not the actual tax homework, it's trying to prove who I am!

*How much did you make last year? I don't know.
*How much was your Federal return last year? I don't know!
*What is your Tax ID PIN? I DON'T KNOW!


Why can't I just file my damn taxes?!(I know, I know. Tax fraud...)
Anywho, my ex has done my taxes the last 10+ years. She has all the information I need! Now that we separated I feel like she knows more about me than I do! I can't do my own taxes cause I don't know the answers to any of the questions above! I don't even have a bank account anymore, she took it over and closed it and she cancelled my CCs.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO GIVE Y'ALL MONEY?!

Note to single men looking to get into a serious relationship:

Whatever you think is yours; lease, mortgage, car etc... make sure it's in your name.
Make sure YOU have/know your personal information and where it is.(don't let your significant other hold it, you'll never know when you'll need it.)

I have my License, SS card, birth certificate etc... But odd things like last year's 1099 and tax info I don't have or know!

I hate this time of year!

/r
 
ryzno
I hate filing taxes!!

I have to file my taxes myself for the first time in 14 years! It's not the actual tax homework, it's trying to prove who I am!

*How much did you make last year? I don't know.
*How much was your Federal return last year? I don't know!
*What is your Tax ID PIN? I DON'T KNOW!


Why can't I just file my damn taxes?!(I know, I know. Tax fraud...)
Anywho, my ex has done my taxes the last 10+ years. She has all the information I need! Now that we separated I feel like she knows more about me than I do! I can't do my own taxes cause I don't know the answers to any of the questions above! I don't even have a bank account anymore, she took it over and closed it and she cancelled my CCs.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO GIVE Y'ALL MONEY?!

Note to single men looking to get into a serious relationship:

Whatever you think is yours; lease, mortgage, car etc... make sure it's in your name.
Make sure YOU have/know your personal information and where it is.(don't let your significant other hold it, you'll never know when you'll need it.)

I have my License, SS card, birth certificate etc... But odd things like last year's 1099 and tax info I don't have or know!

I hate this time of year!

/r
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I have heard of how a pain it can be in the USA. I file my own and wife tax returns in less then an hour.

Look at the bright side. After you finished this one, I am sure next year will be a breeze!
 
ryzno
WHY IS IT SO HARD TO GIVE Y'ALL MONEY?!
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Your tax-return is probably asking for that money back, not giving it. You've theoretically already shipped them what they need (if you didn't, probably penalties are in store).
 
Danoff
Your tax-return is probably asking for that money back, not giving it. You've theoretically already shipped them what they need (if you didn't, probably penalties are in store).
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In my case that is actually true. I got a return of about 5k each year.
 
Danoff
You've theoretically already shipped them what they need (if you didn't, probably penalties are in store).
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Nope. I don't pay per quarter(1099), I just bite it this time of year. It's not much really.
Regardless I don't know how much I paid. I don't know how much I made last year or my tax pin. The app I'm using won't let me proceed till I get it right.
I hit up my ex hoping she has it(still waiting for an answer) or I'll probably have to go to the library for the paper tax forms and do it the old fashioned way.
 
ryzno
Nope. I don't pay per quarter(1099), I just bite it this time of year. It's not much really.
Regardless I don't know how much I paid. I don't know how much I made last year or my tax pin. The app I'm using won't let me proceed till I get it right.
I hit up my ex hoping she has it(still waiting for an answer) or I'll probably have to go to the library for the paper tax forms and do it the old fashioned way.
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No quarterly payments, no withholding... that sounds like penalties.
 
ryzno
Nope. I don't pay per quarter(1099), I just bite it this time of year. It's not much really.
Regardless I don't know how much I paid. I don't know how much I made last year or my tax pin. The app I'm using won't let me proceed till I get it right.
I hit up my ex hoping she has it(still waiting for an answer) or I'll probably have to go to the library for the paper tax forms and do it the old fashioned way.
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Damn Ryzno, get yourself a filing cabinet. :lol:
 
ryzno
I hit up my ex hoping she has it(still waiting for an answer) or I'll probably have to go to the library for the paper tax forms and do it the old fashioned way.
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From what my ex said, I'm either going to be going through 2 storage units Sunday looking for last years info or I'll do it through the mail...
 

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