The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

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bzking23
Also Karthikayan at Ferrari 2013
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There's a better chance of Karthikayan ending up under a Ferrari.

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I don't think they'll do it, but I think someone like Kovelainen would be a good shout for a one year deal at Ferrari. He's been around long enough to not become a permanent fixture at Maranello, and he would be faster than Massa in my opinion. I don't get when people say that Massa being incredibly slow is a satisfactory job. Someone like Kovelainen would be just quick enough to not be a threat to Teflonso, but be quick enough to take points away from his rivals and add points to their Constructors' challenge, something which they are lacking in with Massa.

But of course, his experiences at McLaren would put him off personally.
 
And Schumi quietly retires for a second time :dopey:

Do you think he is embarrased about his performance this year?
 
Nope. He's probably more embarrassed at the fact that he's retired half the races he's been in. In the races he actually finished (except Bahrain, where he started from the back), he's outperformed Nico. This year's the best season for him in terms of pace and speed.
 
He would have probably won Monaco if not for hitting Senna in Spain.:(
 
Hasn't 'hit' a few other cars in his 2nd go round?

2010:
It was the first season since his début season in 1991 that Schumacher finished without a win, pole position, podium or fastest lap. He finished the season 9th with 72 points.

2011:
Schumacher finished the season in eighth place in the Drivers' Championship standings with 76 points; his best result was fourth place at the Canadian Grand Prix.

2012:
At the Canadian Grand Prix, a miscalculation from the team during qualifying prevented him from undertaking his second flying lap, and he qualified in ninth position as a result. He retired from the race after his second pit stop because of a jammed DRS flap. In the European Grand Prix, Schumacher qualified twelfth, although his time was only 0.28 seconds slower than the fastest time in the second part of qualifying. He finished third in the race, gaining his first podium finish since his comeback. At the age of 43 years and 173 days, he became the oldest driver to achieve a podium since Jack Brabham's second place finish at the 1970 British Grand Prix.

He set the fastest lap in a Grand Prix for the 77th time in his career at Hockenheim on 22 July.[123] At the Belgian Grand Prix Schumacher became the second Formula One driver to race in his 300th Grand Prix after his ex-Ferrari teammate Rubens Barrichello achieved this feat. He wore a commemorative platinum leaf helmet on track during the weekend and was seen donning a special platinum-coloured cap during media appearances. He finished the race in 7th place.
(from Wikipedia)
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Schumacher said he hasn't decided what he will do after the season, saying he just wants to focus on the final six races. He has struggled this season, and was issued a 10-place grid penalty at Suzuka for causing a spectacular crash with Toro Rosso's Jean-Eric Vergne during the Singapore GP.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports...rrent+season/7342463/story.html#ixzz28SSDRi1A
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He also has some 'incident' history:

At the 1997 European Grand Prix at Jerez, the last race of the season, Schumacher led Williams' Jacques Villeneuve by one point in the Drivers' Championship. As Villeneuve attempted to pass Schumacher at the Dry Sack Corner on lap 48, Schumacher turned in and the right-front wheel of Schumacher's Ferrari hit the left side pod of Villeneuve's car. Schumacher retired from the race as a result but Villeneuve finished in third place, taking four points and so becoming the World Champion.[140] The race stewards did not award any penalty, but two weeks after the race Schumacher was disqualified from the entire 1997 season after a FIA disciplinary hearing found that his "manoeuvre was an instinctive reaction and although deliberate not made with malice or premeditation. It was a serious error."[58] Schumacher accepted the decision[145] and admitted having made a mistake.[146] Schumacher's actions were widely condemned in British, German, and Italian newspapers.[142][146] This made Schumacher the only driver in the history of the sport, as of 2011, to be disqualified from a Driver's World Championship,[147] although the McLaren team was disqualified from the 2007 Constructor’s Championship and fined $100m for illegal possession of Ferrari technical information. Wikipedia[148]
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I think once you retire, you should stay retired in that sport.

Regardless of how he did in his 2nd F1 career; he is one of the best and his stats will be hard to match 👍

But I was happiest when Jacques Villeneuve beat him in 1997 :)
 
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Okay, here's what I think the grid could look like in 2013, taking in account some of the recent moves. As usual, it's one part fact and one part narrative:

Scuderia Ferrari
1 - Fernando ALONSO
2 - Nico HULKENBERG

Ferrari let Massa go, and pick up Hulkenberg in his place, despite continuing rumours of a pre-contract with Sebastian Vettel for 2014. Counter-rumours suggest that Adrian Newey has already been working on the team's 2014 car for a year - the regulations having been made available in 2011 - paving the way for an ongoing vacancy at Ferrari, as Red Bull are reluctant to give up Vettel.

Red Bull Racing (Renault)
3 - Sebastian VETTEL
4 - Mark WEBBER

Red Bull keep their driver line-up, despite Webber's disappointing season. Talk in the paddock suggests that the team had been looking to promote Vergne or Ricciardo for 2013, but the chronically under-performing Toro Rosso made it impossible to come to a decision.

McLaren (Mercedes)
5 - Jenson BUTTON
6 - Sergio PEREZ

With Hamilton off to Mercedes, McLaren sign Perez alongside Button.

Lotus F1 (Renault)
7 - Kimi RAIKKONEN
8 - Romain GROSJEAN

Lotus keep an unchanged line-up, despite both drivers becoming increasingly - and visibly - frustrated with their poor race management as the season goes on. Both wisely pay attention to The Cautionary Tale of Vitaly Petrov and keep their mouths shut about it, but it is apparent that all is not well at Enstone, with talk of a mutiny among senior engineers.

Mercedes AMG
9 - Nico ROSBERG
10 - Lewis HAMILTON

Schumacher retires, Hamilton takes his place.

Sauber F1 (Ferrari)
11 - Pastor MALDONADO
12 - Heikki KOVALAINEN

Maldonado's move to Sauber proves to be tremendously unpopular with fans, but there is a method to the madness: Maldonado is undeniably fast, but lacks discipline - the kind of discipline Sauber raise their drivers on. They hope to mold him into a regular front-runner. Kovalainen takes the second seat after losing his patience with Caterham.

Force India F1 (Mercedes)
14 - Jules BIANCHI
15 - Jaime ALGUERSUARI

Both Force India's drivers are poached away, though the brunt of the impact is softened by having already signed Alguersuari for 2013 before either driver leaves. Whoever he was intended to replace becomes one of the great unsolved mysteries of Formula 1. Bianchi is drafted in to fill the second seat, continuing the team's practice of promoting their test drivers.

Williams F1 (Renault)
16 - Paul DI RESTA
17 - Kamui KOBAYASHI

When Hamilton leaves McLaren, Williams see a gap in the market and decide to reposition themselves as the "British" team, securing plenty of sponsorship by taking di Resta. The loss of Maldonado leaves them in something of a predicament, as they are disappointed with Bottas following a late-season appointment to replace in the final races of 2012. But if ever there was a driver who embodies the Williams spirit, it is Kamui Kobayashi, and he is quickly signed.

Scuderia Toro Rosso (Ferrari)
18 - Jean-Eric VERGNE
19 - Daniel RICCIARDO

Vergne and Ricciardo earn a stay of execution when the 2012 car struggles. But 2012 has given the team a string of budding candidates for a seat in Formula 1, putting more pressure on them to perform in 2013.

Marussia F1 (Cosworth)
20 - Timo GLOCK
21 - Max CHILTON

Marussia steal 10th from Caterham in Singapore, and hold on to it for the rest of the season. In response, Caterham poach Charles Pic (and his money) away. But Marussia lose a dime and find a dollar, with Max Chilton bringing twice as much sponsorship to the team.

Caterham F1 (Renault)
22 - Vitaly PETROV
23 - Charles PIC

Caterham are prepared to replace Petrov with Pic until they lose Kovalainen to Sauber and 10th place to Marussia. Reclaiming the place will be difficult enough with one new driver, and so the team think better of replacing Vitaly Petrov, even when Giedo van der Garde promises to match Pic's sponsorship dollar-for-dollar. Although the team keep him, Petrov is on the shortest leash they have.

Dream Team Zhonghua (Cosworth)
24 - Qinghua MA
25 - Pedro DE LA ROSA

HRT pick up new backers from China, and rename the team. Ma Qinghua naturally gets the seat, with Pedro de la Rosa retained to develop the car.
 
Well I'd say all of those are realistic except Williams. I doubt Williams will chuck Bottas in at the deep end so late and I also doubt that he would disappoint that badly to completely lose his chance at a seat. I think that is pretty much a given.

I also doubt Maldonado is headed to Sauber - I think his recent talk about possibly not being at Williams is a reference to the Ferrari seat. I can see Ferrari taking the chance maybe but again I doubt Maldonado is off anywhere else.

I also find it weird to suggest Williams would like to be seen as a "British" team and this affect their driver choices - if they ever say anything like that, its marketing rubbish. I can see them taking Di Resta and Kobayashi though...problem with that one is neither bring money and Williams still don't have a big sponsor.

I realise you stated its "part fact part narrative"..but that bit just sounds a little too far-fetched, I think you're trying a bit too hard there to make your list sound interesting. If you're going to write the fan-fiction version, why not write it for the whole grid? Rather than single out one team rather bizarrely.
 
Pretty much most of that is fan-fictiony. The only ones that aren't are the teams who have confirmed their line-ups for 2013. Everything else is fantasy, really.
 
I quite like that idea Prisonermonkeys, seems to fit rather well indeed. Where's Massa going to head though?
 
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Ardius
I also doubt Maldonado is headed to Sauber - I think his recent talk about possibly not being at Williams is a reference to the Ferrari seat. I can see Ferrari taking the chance maybe but again I doubt Maldonado is off anywhere else.
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I doubt he is going anywhere fast, especially as Ferrari said Perez was too in-experienced and Maldonado has roughly the same amount of races under his belt as Perez does. If Ferrari do take Maldonado on (which I highly doubt they will) then it will show that they missed the opportunity to hire Perez who has more consistent finishes, less penalties and can control his emotions within a car.
 
I cant see Ferrari letting Massa go, they would be stupid to! Hes the perfect No2 who will follow team orders, he can be fast on his day and still has some reasonable pace. Alonso is still the number 1 and has good some more good years left in him yet. I feel Ferrari will replace Massa when they need to look for a replacement for Alonso.

But then again the contracts usually are done by now and its getting late into the season..
 
Massa is really not the perfect number 2, he's not consistently good enough. Look at Webber, Button, Barrichello, etc - they are good enough to beat their WDC teammates but lack in a few areas which usually puts them a little bit behind - meaning they can play tailgunner much more effectively as they can qualify ahead of their teammate's rivals and take wins when said teammate has problems - preventing his rivals winning.

Massa almost never qualifies ahead of any of Alonso's WDC rivals and barely ever matches Alonsos pace. How many races has he won lately? How many points has he helped deliver for the team?

The only way he can be considered a "good number 2" is that he is so slow these days he never gets in the way of Alonso. But personally I think anyone describing Massa as a great number 2 these days is actually being quite insulting to Massa - like its the only thing he's good for now is "following orders".

Ferrari have given Felipe way more than enough time to improve. Its definitely time to get some new blood in as its just a waste of a seat otherwise. May as well give a promising newbie a try in top machinery for a year if Vettel comes in 2014 - Ferrari don't stand to lose anything because they surely can't be slower than Massa and the younger driver gets a shot at proving himself to the top teams..even if they can't hang on to the drive.
 
Ardius
Massa is really not the perfect number 2, he's not consistently good enough. Look at Webber, Button, Barrichello, etc - they are good enough to beat their WDC teammates but lack in a few areas which usually puts them a little bit behind - meaning they can play tailgunner much more effectively as they can qualify ahead of their teammate's rivals and take wins when said teammate has problems - preventing his rivals winning.

Massa almost never qualifies ahead of any of Alonso's WDC rivals and barely ever matches Alonsos pace. How many races has he won lately? How many points has he helped deliver for the team?

The only way he can be considered a "good number 2" is that he is so slow these days he never gets in the way of Alonso. But personally I think anyone describing Massa as a great number 2 these days is actually being quite insulting to Massa - like its the only thing he's good for now is "following orders".

Ferrari have given Felipe way more than enough time to improve. Its definitely time to get some new blood in as its just a waste of a seat otherwise. May as well give a promising newbie a try in top machinery for a year if Vettel comes in 2014 - Ferrari don't stand to lose anything because they surely can't be slower than Massa and the younger driver gets a shot at proving himself to the top teams..even if they can't hang on to the drive.
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I kind of agree with you, his pace has been pretty disappointing, but who would be better? Whats the point in chucking in a young guy when they will be playing second fiddle to Alonso anyway? What happens if they ask him to move over and he doesnt? At least with Massa they know he will..

It may be insulting to him but to be fair, since the accident, he has not been the same and I cant ever seeing him going back to how he was.
 
Dustone
I kind of agree with you, his pace has been pretty disappointing, but who would be better? Whats the point in chucking in a young guy when they will be playing second fiddle to Alonso anyway? What happens if they ask him to move over and he doesnt?
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What Ferrari needs is someone who can play second fiddle to Alonso, but who can also work towards Ferrari's WCC campaign and be ready to mount their own title bid if something should happen to Alonso (ie Schumacher's Silverstone crash in 1999, or a string of mechanical faults, etc.).
 
prisonermonkeys
What Ferrari needs is someone who can play second fiddle to Alonso, but who can also work towards Ferrari's WCC campaign
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As mentioned by me and others, this is where Kovelainen comes in.

prisonermonkeys
and be ready to mount their own title bid if something should happen to Alonso (ie Schumacher's Silverstone crash in 1999, or a string of mechanical faults, etc.).
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But maybe not so much here.

Maldonado could be a very long-shot, but someone like Huelkenberg would be more likely if Ferrari really are disposing of Massa.
 
With the introduction of the new engines in 2014 I don't think that F1 will have as many teams as it has now. I honestly think that a few teams may cut and run. It's going to be über expensive, if it's not already, and I don't think that some of the teams will be able to make it.

Now people may ask what this has to do with this thread, but I think it ties in incredibly. If teams like Marussia don't have the backing, and therefore the finances, what is to become of Glock and Pic? Or even De Le Rosa at HRT? They need drivers there who attract sponsors. Some of the guys at the lower end teams DO attract sponsors, but most don't. So what of them? I believe that this will have a massive impact on the team - drivers line up in 2013.
 
de la Rosa is there for his experience rather than his racecraft or finances. He's tipping 40 now, so he'll be gone soon enough.
 
Where's Massa headed?

AF Corse.


I think di Resta will stick around in the Force India. Nowhere to go but down...

I'm curious to see the Lap-By-Lap pace comparison between Perez and Button. I'm sure Button will get the #3 car again next year,and thus, the team lead. But the year after? I don't see Perez wanting to play Wingman for button.
 
haitch40
You want to say that now?

He has found form again in the last few races.
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Ferrari will be watching him very closely from now on. He has to keep up this level of performance. If all he delivers is mediocre, pointless drives, then I doubt this will be enough.

Funnily enough, I said to my wife during the race that Ferrari used their "special laptop" and unlocked the usually locked 20% of Massa's horsepower. Just a joke of course.
 
I think Kobayashi will be on a few of the top teams radars with that podium!..
 
haitch40
You want to say that now?

He has found form again in the last few races.
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Massa's job is to take points away from Alonso's rivals. He didn't exactly take many away from Vettel did he?

His individual performance does not matter. He's a number 2. If he can't do what is required of him then he can't do what is required of him.
 
Tired Tyres
Massa's job is to take points away from Alonso's rivals. He didn't exactly take many away from Vettel did he?

His individual performance does not matter. He's a number 2. If he can't do what is required of him then he can't do what is required of him.
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So? Ok he may be no use to Ferrari as a number 2 but that doesn't mean he needs to get out of the sport.
 
Where is it I say anything that's not specifically Ferrari related? Nowhere.
 
I am intrigued by David Croft's comments that there will be "a few surprises" in the silly season.
 
Vettel AND Alonso under the same roof? 2 people that expect to win every time and are rivals. You guys really think that they'll put them in the same team in 2014? Something tells me neither of them would like it..

And Massa just shown he has the pace and the car to be on the podium, so whats happening every other race? Seems like he is always under team orders to stay back unless something happens to Alonso. Cant be doing poorly all season then suddenly pull out a podium from no where...
 
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