The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

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When STR (with tons of Red Bull money) is doing it, there's a problem.
If you want to be technical, STR were doing it four years when they brought in Repsol-backed Alguersuari. And though not technically pay drivers, Red Bull have been predominantly backing young drivers that are marketable in addition to simply being talented (ie second generation drivers, big market nationalities, female drivers, etc.). They have previously given an STR seat to a driver because of his nationality: the nation with the world's largest energy drink market (Scott Speed).

That being said, STR/RB Junior Program haven't deviated much from their original purpose and are singularly devoted to developing drivers for RBR, and they are still quite ruthless in doing so. No matter your backing, who your father is, or what nation you are from, you will be dropped if you under-perform and are deemed to have exited RB's future plans. The fact that Kvyat has other backing is almost coincidental for RB.

Here's a clue, the status quo won't change in F1 by following it's own tail for a half-decade, and that will turn off its fan base somewhat. I'm not saying the FIA needs to step in, because then we get artificial gimmicks, but doing things the same way and expecting different results leads to...
There's not much anyone can do to change the status quo. In the 90s, most of the upper midfield teams had sizable tabacco sponsorship that subsidized their programs. In the 00s, most teams had manufacturer backing/support, so pay drivers were restricted almost exclusively to the minnows. But now, tobacco sponsorship is a thing of the past, the manufacturers are mostly gone and the world's economy is recovering from financial turmoil. For teams like Williams, Lotus, and Sauber, it's almost unavoidable that they will turn to pay drivers. Luckily, the quality of the pay drivers that are coming in are stronger than they used to be. The pay drivers that are coming in now are winning championships, becoming vice-champions, or at least winning races, in lower formula. We haven't seen a new true no hoper in quite a while now.

Why these teams aren't at least taking the journeyman route and taking drivers with experience is baffling to me, if the talent pool is so drained. At least some experience comes with that, and it can help the team. Not every new helmet has world champion underneath it, that's statistically for certain, but taking a couple of undeveloped drivers with half-assed resumes is only going to yield more half-assed results.
An example?
I'd like to think that teams are more ambitious than that. A young GP2 runner-up probably possesses a higher ceiling to develop into than a mediocre veteran like a Heikki or a Glock.
 


Lotus/Genii must be really strapped for cash if that is true. Maldonado has been lackluster all season, shown up by Bottas.
 
Maldonado has been lackluster all season, shown up by Bottas.
The Williams has been lackluster and Maldonado has bettered Bottas regularly on race day.


That said, Hulkenburg should be the better choice. Maldonado is good, I think the Hulk is probably better.
 
You can not be serious! Just 15 min ago I was talking with a friend if Hulk will get his first F1 win in the Lotus next season. I just hope this is not signed yet.

What are the top 4 teams thinking, one of them should sign Hulk seasons ago imo.
 
Hulk's way better than Maldo.

But about Maldo going to Lotus: I thought there'd be some sort of conflict between his oil backers, PDVSA, and Grosjean's, Total. I know they're in different markets, but it still wouldn't make too much sense on the corporate side of things.
 
one major point that seems to elude all the rumours is that Maldonado is w/ PDVSA and Grosjean w/ Lotus.

no way you would have 2 petrol companies sponsoring 1 team.

Grosjean is a shoe in for next year at Lotus. I think Maldonado at Lotus is BS, unless Lotus would take him without PDVSA (which still has a 2 year contract w/ Williams; but why would they choose him over Hulk?
 
one major point that seems to elude all the rumours is that Maldonado is w/ PDVSA and Grosjean w/ Lotus.

no way you would have 2 petrol companies sponsoring 1 team.

Grosjean is a shoe in for next year at Lotus. I think Maldonado at Lotus is BS, unless Lotus would take him without PDVSA (which still has a 2 year contract w/ Williams; but why would they choose him over Hulk?

Total you mean. But you do have a point, even though I doubt the two companies directly compete.
 

Poor Hulkenburg. Are Lotus really that strapped for cash that they need two "pay" drivers next year? I mean, Grosjean certainly has the skill to justify his position, but I believe he brings money to the team as well.

One wonders what they were thinking hiring Raikkonen, because he can't have been cheap. I think being fourth in the constructors with a reasonable shot at third or even second if everything falls their way in the last few races is pretty much all they could have hoped for.
 
One wonders what they were thinking hiring Raikkonen, because he can't have been cheap. I think being fourth in the constructors with a reasonable shot at third or even second if everything falls their way in the last few races is pretty much all they could have hoped for.

They were thinking WDC who can win a race for us, which he duly did. If they didn't have Raikkonen, they likely wouldn't have beaten Mercedes to 4th last season in the WCC and they wouldn't be almost up there fighting for 2nd and 3rd with Ferrari and Mercedes this season.

The cost in salary/bonuses (which reportedly haven't been paid to Raikkonen anyway!) is surely covered quite easily by the boost in cash from WCC finishing position and the coverage gained from the race wins and multiple podiums. Not to mention Raikkonen's personality and everything which is also great media exposure lately.
 
Agree with Ardius, 'm pretty sure teams get money from FOM (or whatever ... I mean Bernie and his CVC buddies) based on their WCC points/position, so probably Kimi's remarkable results (I'd say achievements) as a Lotus driver more than paid whatever salary he was supposed to receive.

I read the other day an excellent article by Dieter Rencken (on autosport, but I think only available for subscribers), about what he calls the biggest scandal in Formula 1 : the immense profits generated by the Formula 1 brand to their owners (CVC) and the near bankrupcy of all teams bar the top four (I suppose he means Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren).


So, that's what you get. And guys like Hulk stand no chance unless they get lucky and a top team needs a change of driver.
 
Its been a steadily growing problem for a long time though, I mean only looking back at the last couple of seasons and you've got a list of drivers who in a different era of F1 would easily have longer careers even if only at smaller teams.

I have to say though that Hulkenburg has been the stand out talent that has miraculously not found a top drive when all the pieces were there for it to happen. What else does the guy need to do to get his chance?

Surely eventually Hulk is going to end up going elsewhere for a competitive ride. I'm pretty sure Porsche would grab him for the WEC.
 
If Hulk really wants to wait it out a year as reserve driver again that is the only way I can see him staying in this rumored 2014 world. At this point I'd rather see the poor guy win Le Mans because no one is giving him the time of day in F1.
 
They thought about signing Maldonado? Hoe many points does he have this season?

1?

Yup.

1.
 
Yes but how many millions can he bring to the team? 25 of them? They need that to pay Kimi!
 
They thought about signing Maldonado? Hoe many points does he have this season?

1?

Yup.

1.
In one of the worst cars on the grid, don't forget! I'd rather that Hulkenberg get the drive than Maldonado, but it's not exactly Pastor's fault that he's only scored one point this year. While both Sauber and Williams started the year on the back foot, the former has improved dramatically. Meanwhile the team from Grove has made hardly any progress whatsoever, while everyone around them is still moving forward; making it more and more difficult for both it's drivers to score points as the seasons goes on.
 
In one of the worst cars on the grid, don't forget! I'd rather that Hulkenberg get the drive than Maldonado, but it's not exactly Pastor's fault that he's only scored one point this year.

Generally speaking yes but he has made a lot of mistakes this year, plus Bottas has looked the better of the two drivers most of the year.
 
Generally speaking yes but he has made a lot of mistakes this year, plus Bottas has looked the better of the two drivers most of the year.
He hasn't made many mistakes this year at all; he had a slightly dodgy start to the year, but nothing like we saw last season. And since Monaco he's been bringing the car home in one piece without fail.
 
Of all the pay drivers available, Maldonado is probably the best option. Unfortunately.
 
Generally speaking yes but he has made a lot of mistakes this year, plus Bottas has looked the better of the two drivers most of the year.
Again this? I can't remember any race mistakes from him, can you enlighten us with examples? I remember some qualifying mistakes, but he has done well during races to recover, often started with some lightening starts.

As for Bottas vs Maldonado, you've said this baseless statement before. In qualifying, they've been fairly even, usually only separated by hundredths when both don't make a mistake. Maldonado has clearly shown better race pace than Bottas in almost every race this season.

Can you explain yourself Simon?
Of all the pay drivers available, Maldonado is probably the best option. Unfortunately.
I'd say Rogro or Perez. But Maldonado is a good driver too, paying or not.
 
I'm honestly not that good at remembering specifics of past races but I'm sure I recall at least twice when he crashed out of races on his own plus some quali errors. I may be wrong, it's just what is in my mind having watched all season. Bottas in his rookie season and Maldonado his second, just hasn't impressed me.
 
I'd say Rogro or Perez. But Maldonado is a good driver too, paying or not.

Drivers available. Grosjean isn't available, and it's severely doubtful that Perez is. I agree that both of them would be better choices than Maldonado. Grosjean because he's been a legitimate podium level driver this season, and Perez because at least he's demonstrated that he can hold it with the top boys.

Maldonado has admittedly been crippled by a dog of a car this season, but even if you accept that his raw speed is there he still feels a bit like the wild animal that was Grosjean a couple of years ago. Has potential, but hasn't managed to tap it consistently yet.

Good to hear Hulkenberg will have a seat at Lotus next year. 👍

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111129

Agreed, this is good news.
 
I quite like it when up and coming talents get to go to bigger and faster teams. I was excited for the Perez move to Mclaren, but unfortunately that seems to have not worked out that great. Though Hulkenberg does seem extremely talented and it'll be nice to see what he can do in a faster car.
 
I'm honestly not that good at remembering specifics of past races but I'm sure I recall at least twice when he crashed out of races on his own plus some quali errors. I may be wrong, it's just what is in my mind having watched all season. Bottas in his rookie season and Maldonado his second, just hasn't impressed me.
He spun out of the Australian GP, that was a very bad weekend for him, but he's mostly kept it clean since. He was stuffed into the wall at Monaco, but that all Chilton and not Pastor's fault. There's that very clumsy clash with the Force Indias at the pit entry in Spa and some didn't like Pastor's senna-esque move on Bottas at the end of Suzuka, but that's all I can recall. Otherwise he has been quick, shown decent race craft and unlucky not to have scored more points. In that Williams you can't do much more than beat your teammate and that's what he's doing.
Drivers available.
Ah, my mistake. :ouch:
 
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