The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by F1 fan, May 10, 2012.

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  1. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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    The thing that bugs me about this is that he's one of the few drivers out there trying to make things exciting on the track, with a dog of a car. Although I'm not sure whether the post-race controversy is because little else happened, or Perez drives a bit more wayward than much of the field. Probably a little of both.

    He's fun to watch at times, so I hope he winds up at some team where he can break out of Q1 (i.e., not Marussia/Caterham).
     
  2. C-ZETA

    C-ZETA

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    He probably does do that actually, but it doesn't always work. His fairly awful Monaco moves stick out to me the most, and he has probably caused one too many nerves at McLaren with all the battles he seems to have had with Button.

    To his credit though, his two highest finishes this year have seen his better side (hence why they're his best finishes). Bahrain 6th had Button controversy but also some strong driving, and his pass for 5th at India was superb.

    But the truth is that those are the only times he's finished above 8th and now he stands 12th in the championship following another late Hulkenberg surge of form.
     
  3. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Kobayashi was more fun to watch :(

    As for Perez, considering people don't really rate Button all that highly (despite being right there with Hamilton as teammates overall), the fact Perez has on most occasions been behind Button on pace both in qualifying (Jenson's weak area) and in the races hasn't done him any favours.

    He could have done with a 2nd season with a better car but it has to be said that he didn't really prove convincing enough for what is effectively a seat in a top team.

    This is one of those where I wouldn't have knocked McLaren for keeping Perez or dropping him. He deserved another shot but its easy to see why he hasn't kept his seat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  4. SagarisGTB

    SagarisGTB

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    I think you're being harsh on Perez. If you give Perez the first three races to acclimatize to the new team/car, since Sergio found his feet in Bahrain, Sergio has out-qualified Button 8-6 and has matched him on race pace for the most part. Perez' finishes have looked worse compared to Button than they actually were: twice this season Perez has been barred from passing Button on track because of team orders (Barcelona, Singapore) and three times has Perez had a puncture when ahead of his teammate (Silverstone, Korea, Suzuka). He has had a good season and deserves a second one, I have no doubt.

    Perez has had a better first season at McLaren than Raikkonen did.
     
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  5. Wardez

    Wardez Staff Emeritus

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    Perfect analysis. This is sad news, Mexico's lost its only hope for such a long time and it'll be such a long time before another comes around that can get a top drive, and there's no telling how Esteban's gonna go :(
     
  6. Imari

    Imari

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    As I recall, last year McLaren was a good team that crippled themselves with baffling strategy calls.

    Good to see they're sticking to form. Perez is bad? Sure, whatever. I'm sure they know more than we do. Replace him with rookie over Hulkenburg, or Massa? Wut?

    Good luck, McLaren. You'll need it.
     
  7. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    I'm quite sad to see Perez go, I actually think there is still the making of a good driver, maybe he just works better in a midfield team outfit. As for Maldonado, good bye to him and I wont shed a tear. I'm sure some other failing state team will welcome his money, but Williams need to get their house in order and build up with actual drivers. Though not sure Massa is the key but he will help Bottas improve I think.

    For now I really hope Hulk goes back to FI and we'll see if they keep Paul or not. STR I couldn't care less about since DR has moved up. Um who am I missing, kind of hard to keep up since I've got more pressing matter to keep up with. Oh that's right, I think Hulk still has a shot at the Lotus seat if I remember correctly, which is good cause I think they can still put some early to mid season stuff together in 2014 and probably fall off the map like 2010, at least it will give those two an early effort to impress.
     
  8. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Perez is lucky if he's out. McLaren had the best car in 2012 and contrived not to win either title due to driver error, bad reliability and shockingly bad pit stops.

    This year they created "make work" by designing a new car when all they had to do was update last years car, given that the rules are broadly the same, now they do have to make a new car for the new rules. (& change engine supplier twice in 2 years)

    Perez would do well to join a competent team.
     
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  9. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Absolutely agree with you, what is worrying is I feel McLaren with all this change and bad decision making are taking a course toward the mid 90s. Only time will tell, but with all the change I'd have to agree they could have saved themselves the trouble and had just kept the MP4-27 DNA for this year, which is something I always thought they should've done.
     
  10. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Raikkonen had 10 DNFs in his first season with McLaren and most of those were mechanical. So apples and oranges?

    According to this:
    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2013-f1-statistics/qualifying-data/#teammatecomparisons
    Perez is only matching Button in qualifying, not beating him.

    As I said, merely matching and occasionally beating Button is not impressive and I think McLaren (unfairly or not) are looking for someone to be faster than Button.

    Its no shame being beaten by Button in the WDC on points but Perez hasn't exactly been unlucky or suffered from inconsistencey like Hamilton did (ignoring strategy blunders). And while being compared to Hamilton is perhaps unfair...Perez is not a rookie now and he needs to be stepping up his game if he wants to hold on to top seats.


    But also note that I did say I wouldn't have knocked McLaren for retaining Perez - I did say he deserves another season with them and a better car. But I can totally see why McLaren are perhaps looking for something more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  11. SagarisGTB

    SagarisGTB

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    I wasn't judging Raikkonen on his finishes, but by his race pace. Kimi edged David in qualifying in 2002, but David very often had much better race pace. If Kimi was ahead in the early stages of a race, David would usually cruise up the back of Raikkonen and pass him either on track or in the pit stops. When Raikkonen's car broke down, it was usually from behind Coulthard. Perez has been far closer to Jenson on race day than Kimi was to David, and I personally rate Button higher than I did Coulthard.

    Did you read my previous post? Sergio has had the most punctures (I would assume) of any driver this season, and all of them while in points paying positions. In this age of bullet-proof cars, that's quite unlucky.

    As for finding a driver to be faster than Button, good luck to them. Button has matched an aging Barrichello and not been far at all from Hamilton on race pace. To acquire a driver faster than Button is to acquire a top driver. To ditch a driver that is close to finished growing into a "tier 2" level driver (Rosberg, Raikkonen, etc.) to go out looking for the next Vettel or Alonso is rather risky. That's putting a lot of pressure and responsibility on Kevin (and Stoffel).
     
  12. Ardius

    Ardius

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    I would argue any top team worth their salt would be looking for a "tier 1" driver. Why settle on mediocrity? If we're agreeing that Perez doesn't have much more potential than to be merely good, then why waste another season finding out? Why not take a risk on a rookie or someone else who hasn't had the shot and find a Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso?

    I actually applaud McLaren for having the balls to actually take the risk rather than forcing all rookies to fight with pay drivers for a seat at Marussia or Caterham (which is probably why Magnussen is getting the chance in the first place, if McLaren could have placed him somewhere else for experience, they would have).

    I would also be saying the same thing if they had dropped Button or had hired Kobayashi instead of Perez for 2013 and were dropping him. They are my favourite drivers but if they were not performing at a top team, its not unreasonable for the team to be looking for something more.

    McLaren also have the luxury of being able to afford to take these risks.

    My only complaint is they still haven't done the most obvious thing in the entire universe and hire Hulkenburg.

    Oh and I will admit I barely remember much from 2002 and I wasn't watching so much then so I can't comment on what was happening in the races, but there was only 3 races where they both finished the race - 2/3 in favour of Raikkonen. I still don't think its a comparable situation and without knowing the details of those races, it sounds likely to me that some of those races you mention where Coulthard was catching and passing Raikkonen could be down to the mechanical failures too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  13. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    Agreed, I thought Perez had a lot of potential, and that the fact this years Mclaren has been slower than the Sauber he had before it means he's just been terribly unlucky. I think to an extent, Button and Perez both flatter the Mclaren with their solid performances.

    I'm glad that Massa has got a seat, although I do hope this doesn't mean Maldonado is moving up. I mean, he's fast and everything, but he has proved that he has blatant disregard for the safety of other drivers (Which in the past has almost resulted in a lifetime ban at Monaco) which to me says he doesn't deserve to get another seat, least of all a top seat at Mclaren or Lotus.

    I'd quite like it if Hulkenberg were to nab that Mclaren seat, though it is looking doubtful at the moment. He's the only one of the 'new generation' of drivers (That came in after the 2009 rule change) who I rate higher than Perez. Perez to Lotus maybe?
     
  14. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    This, I didn't want to say it because I've bashed the stupid moves that McLaren have pulled this year by even creating the MP4-28 the way they did. However, it must be said that the drivers are making the car better than what it probably would be in the hands of lesser drivers.

    Maldonado reminds me of a past driver just can't remember who at the moment, but regardless of that I don't think he should go further, I think he'd make a better Sports Car driver with the rough dicing he tries to pull. Either way I agree he doesn't deserve another seat. Also as I said earlier it looks as if Williams is the home of past number #2 Ferrari drivers, perhaps if they had the team they could make such drivers fight with the top. Yet I am not thrilled to see Massa on the grid still, last year after his revival run in the second half I thought I'd give the guy a break and support 13 drive at Ferrari since he was trying to prove them wrong, but this time around it was more of the same before 2012 second half. Thus I was one of those who wished to see him hang up the F1 gloves to some other arena of racing, we'll see what he does next year and hope that Williams have a upper mid-tier car again.

    You sir made me think, because I never thought about that. Plot twist :sly::tup:

    Yeah I could see that happening though I'm very curious as to why Magnussen is being pushed this hard, I mean he had an epic WRS 3.5 season and I'd say he stand better than some of the defended GP2 guys around here. Yet I still question the moving up of drivers in an almost "Hamilton-esque" style.
     
  15. Dr. P

    Dr. P

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    So so... It seems that Kovalainen is replacing Räikkönen for last two races. But is he a next years candidate for Lotus too..
     
  16. Blitz24

    Blitz24 Premium

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    Is it official? I know Hulkenberg and Schumi were also asked and said no.
     
  17. Dr. P

    Dr. P

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    According to a Finnish news channel, yes. (But its only official when Lotus themselves announce)

    I don't wonder if Hülkenberg didn't take the seat, as he is quite comfortable at the moment with Sauber.
     
  18. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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    Perhaps Sauber also pays their drivers after risking life and limb.
     
  19. AnAL0G

    AnAL0G

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    This. :lol: Hey, come replace a guy we haven't paid all season... ok.
     
  20. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    McLaren got it wrong. Perez did more than enough to deserve the seat he had this year, and I simply can't understand the decision to drop him.
     
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  21. CinnamonOD

    CinnamonOD

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    I feel bad for Perez.

    The car alone was bad (not that much now), I can compare it with last year's Force India, both Button and Perez did what they had to do, because the car couldn't give the team a podium or a win...

    The hope of finding another Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso
     
  22. SVT Cobra GT

    SVT Cobra GT

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    It's official.

    Perez is out of McLaren.

    Can't post a link as I'm on my phone.

    Sky Sports say : "He has claimed himself that he'll leave McLaren.
     
  23. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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  24. mastretta_mx

    mastretta_mx

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    I feel bad for Perez, but as a fan of him I recognized he didn't do well in Mclaren, even if the car was bad. But at the end I think that Mclaren is lost in a sea of bad decitions (starting with putting Button over Hamilton, the mess that the cars has been this year, now looking for a rookie driver, man Mclaren is a joke right now
     
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  25. MoLiEG

    MoLiEG

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    Wow... that sucks... I'm not going to blame anybody but dropping him after just one season??? BS. What were they expecting??? The third coming of Schumacher???
     
  26. AnAL0G

    AnAL0G

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    Maybe they weren't expecting anything. To me it feels like they took a year off to regroup. They tried some experimental car design (which they said they were going to do after falling short to RB last year, and one year left before the new engines), and Hamilton's departure was also a significant shift. I think they gave Perez a chance, but never really put too much weight into it. McLaren was always going to be able to replace him with another top prospect/proven driver if he didn't overly impress.
     
  27. lunarwolf

    lunarwolf

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    wonder if M Whitmarsh will make room for Ross Brawn? no fan of Perez, but I think McLaren's problem was more than a driver choice
     
  28. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    How about him being replaced by Ross Brawn? It seems to me that Whitmarsh is the problem. Not much has gone right under his leadership.
     
  29. mastretta_mx

    mastretta_mx

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  30. MoLiEG

    MoLiEG

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    Lotus would be ideal. However, Maldonado might be on their radar, too. I don't think both of them could coexist there... it's either Pastor or Checo, not both... :sick: Would hate to see him go to any of the lesser teams because I still believe he has the tools to be on top...

    Would be horrible if Mexico losses both of its drivers... AND the Mexican Grand Prix... :nervous:
     
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