The 2009 Ford Ka: US Bound? Depends on How Much Cash Ford Wants to Make

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For the photos, I see a resemblance to the Astra, though, given the general opinion, I should expect similarities to the Corsa. Very inconspicuous, as homeforsummer had stated.
 
I disagree. So because it doesnt look like it cost 2 grand for ford to build its now no longer special or standout? This new model looks better in every way. Job done. Success.

Like I said, it isn't a success until it's selling well. As it stands, it's just a general bland city car lacking any personality compared to the Fiat 500 it's based on. The lines are incoherent, the dash looks unnecessarily complicated and it has no unique selling point. I'm sure it'll be a great car to drive (though I'd be surprised if it's better than the original) but it's just another small car in the crowd.

So the last one was attractive?

I think so yes. It's a very well thought-out design, it's well proportioned, it hasn't dated particularly and despite what some people say of the interior it was well built, interesting and a good use of space.

Every manufacturer does big discounts when the new model comes out so thats a unfair comparison, as once this new KA gets replaced in 10 odd years it will be the same story.

That point is irrelevant. There have been big discounts on the current Ka for the last five years or so. The point it it's still cheaper to buy. Basic list on a Ka at the moment is £7,635, but you can buy them brand new for nearer £6k from a dealer. I would expect the current Ka to roughly match the £7.6k given that the Fiat 500 starts from £8k.

Your last point in that quote is interesting too - there is no way this Ka will last ten years. If it does I will eat my Fiesta. The old Ka has lasted as long as it has because it's an enduring car, just like the original Mini. It hasn't needed facelifts or replacing until now because Ford got it right first time. All it's really needed in the last 12 years is a new engine for emmissions reasons. The new one will be as disposable and replaceable as any modern car.

KA or those crappy aygo thingys/c1/102 or whatever the peugeot version is called and im sure people will go with the KA.

People probably will go for the Ka because people will always go for Fords. Someone could design the most innovative small car ever and people would still go for the Ford. It just happens that the last Ka was both the obvious boring "let's-get-a-Ford" choice and the right "wow-this-is-great" choice of small car. The "crappy" Aygo, C1 and 107 are the spiritual successor to the original Ka, and before that the Mini.
 
The tata nano is the spiritual succesor the the mini imo.

And I cant see how people can say that the current KA isnt expensive for what it is, when for another £500 you can get a skoda fabia! So yes I think that the next KA will cost just as much as the outgoing version cause its not like its all that cheap anyway.
 
The tata nano is the spiritual succesor the the mini imo.

Disagree. The Nano is hidious, slow and generally crap. It doesn't move the game on in any way (unlike the Mini and Ka). It's sole virtue is it's cheapness, and even that isn't as impressive as it first looked and it's likely to end up costing more. It isn't even particularly impressive on reported economy compared to the Aygo etc, it gets about the same and I'd rather have the Toyota considering the extra style, build quality, performance etc.

And if it's fun to drive, I'll eat your car as well as mine.

And I cant see how people can say that the current KA isnt expensive for what it is, when for another £500 you can get a skoda fabia!

The Ka runs rings around the Fabia for fun. And as I've said, it isn't a £500 difference, it's more like £1500 (or more) when you consider the discounts available. You can't compare list prices because that isn't how cars are sold in the real world.
 
Disagree. The Nano is hidious, slow and generally crap. It doesn't move the game on in any way (unlike the Mini and Ka). It's sole virtue is it's cheapness, and even that isn't as impressive as it first looked and it's likely to end up costing more. It isn't even particularly impressive on reported economy compared to the Aygo etc, it gets about the same and I'd rather have the Toyota considering the extra style, build quality, performance etc.

hideous slow and crap is how I and many would describe a KA. Really you are criticising the nano for being all of the things that you previously praised the KA for.


The Ka runs rings around the Fabia for fun. And as I've said, it isn't a £500 difference, it's more like £1500 (or more) when you consider the discounts available. You can't compare list prices because that isn't how cars are sold in the real world.

Fun in what way? I know in a car crash the KA wouldnt be much fun, and for when there are 5 of you in the car it wouldnt be much fun then either. The bootspace isnt fun. So the KA has lift off oversteer, but then so does the fabia. Grippy front, light rear, so light in the rear infact that there have been issues with the rear brake discs rusting up on lower mileage vehicles.
 
How about a fairer comparison.

The Nano is more like the VW Beetle. It's a car designed to get people off of motorcycles. That was, after all, the KDF-Wagen's original intention. Not to mention, both cars are rear-engine, rear-wheel-drive, and slow. The difference is that the VW was built better.

The Mini, on the other hand, was a basic car that was meant for people in a somewhat less impoverished situation. The big draw was that, due to it's flat floor and front-wheel drive, it could seat more people for less. It wasn't really as bare-bones as the early VWs or Ford Model T had been, at least, as far as I consider. It was a smaller, easy to park alternative to then-contemporary small saloons. The Ka upholds that spirit a little better than does a much larger Skoda or SEAT.
 
hideous slow and crap is how I and many would describe a KA. Really you are criticising the nano for being all of the things that you previously praised the KA for.
I've heard nothing but praise about the original Ka, so I would like to know where you got that it was hideous and slow an crap.
Furthermore, the Tata is not a modern day Mini. It is a modern day Beetle. The point of the Beetle was to get a war torn country on wheels, which was not the same as the Mini's reason of existence. The Nano has little in the way of a buying public in developed European countries because they don't need it there, and the same would be the case if VW marketed a true modern day Beetle.


Fun in what way? I know in a car crash the KA wouldnt be much fun, and for when there are 5 of you in the car it wouldnt be much fun then either. The bootspace isnt fun. So the KA has lift off oversteer, but then so does the fabia.
I think you are the first person living in Britain that I have ever heard of that doesn't understand the old Mini.
 
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hideous slow and crap is how I and many would describe a KA. Really you are criticising the nano for being all of the things that you previously praised the KA for.

That's funny because almost every professional car reviewer say different, many actually owning Ka's as family cars (and more than happy to admit as much).

Hideous is at best subjective, slow depends in comparison to what (and around town and once momentum is preserved also not true) and crap is simply your opinion. My opinion is that you are talking rubbish, the Ka is about as far from a crap car as you can get, it stupidly practical, handles excellently (hence the reason many have been used for rallying over the years), has great fuel consumption and is a hoot to drive.



Fun in what way? I know in a car crash the KA wouldnt be much fun, and for when there are 5 of you in the car it wouldnt be much fun then either.
That's strange because my wife was driven into by a transit van when she was in her Ka, the resulting damage from the accident was repairable and she walked away without a scratch. I'm not talking about a minor ding here either.




The bootspace isnt fun. So the KA has lift off oversteer, but then so does the fabia. Grippy front, light rear, so light in the rear infact that there have been issues with the rear brake discs rusting up on lower mileage vehicles.
Wake up please, I have already given an example of how practical the Ka is when it comes to the loading area and the surprising amount it can actually carry. For the segment it sits in and the age of the design it still stands up well in these areas.

I am however more than able to spot the problem you have with the Ka, it wasn't built by a part of the VAG group. Had it been I'm quite sure it would have been the saviour of the small car industry and healer of the sick and infirm.


Scaff
 
The Ka upholds that spirit a little better than does a much larger Skoda or SEAT.

Which brings me back to main main dispute about the KA. Why would you buy one when for a extra 500 pounds you can get a much larger vehicle in that of the fabia?

Also I have been thinking about the KA's existence and its supposed moving on the game. In reality it hasnt done anything in particular. Its a small odd looking vehicle that is half fun to drive. Other manufacturers, such as the french also made such vehicles. You cannot compare the ka to the original mini. The original mini like the beetle helped alot of people to get a form of cheap reliable transportation. The KA did not serve such a purpose.

I've heard nothing but praise about the original Ka, so I would like to know where you got that it was hideous and slow an crap

It looks hideous in my opinion (looks are objective), its slow barring the sports KA, and the interior is crap when compared to vehicles that cost a couple hundred more like the fabia or a corsa.

My opinion is that you are talking rubbish, the Ka is about as far from a crap car as you can get, it stupidly practical, handles excellently (hence the reason many have been used for rallying over the years), has great fuel consumption and is a hoot to drive.

No its not a crap car as such, I just would not be able to personally justify buying one when it costs nearly 8 grand, when just over 8 grand can get you what in my mind is a much better car in a sense that you get more car for your money.

Im sure it is fun to drive and its design would make it competent at motorsport with some modifications but the average stock KA wouldnt suit my driving style personally.

Wake up please, I have already given an example of how practical the Ka is when it comes to the loading area and the surprising amount it can actually carry. For the segment it sits in and the age of the design it still stands up well in these areas.

How practial is it though if say you went shopping and there where four of you and you could not fold down the rear seats?

I am however more than able to spot the problem you have with the Ka, it wasn't built by a part of the VAG group. Had it been I'm quite sure it would have been the saviour of the small car industry and healer of the sick and infirm.

I couldnt care less to be honest and im starting to get my own grudges with VAG and their inter-brand politics.

Notice though that my main issue with the KA is its price, and it seems odd that im the one who is defending the new model for someone who has a problem with the KA.
 
Which brings me back to main main dispute about the KA. Why would you buy one when for a extra 500 pounds you can get a much larger vehicle in that of the fabia?

Also I have been thinking about the KA's existence and its supposed moving on the game. In reality it hasnt done anything in particular. Its a small odd looking vehicle that is half fun to drive. Other manufacturers, such as the french also made such vehicles. You cannot compare the ka to the original mini. The original mini like the beetle helped alot of people to get a form of cheap reliable transportation. The KA did not serve such a purpose.
Sorry but how old were you when the Ka was first release, because it certainly has served as a cheap form of transport for many new drivers. Simply because Ford has moved the base models 'up-market' over the years does not change what the original Ka was designed for and achieved very well.

The only model the French have ever put out that comes close to the Ka was the original Twingo and that I would rate just as highly. Its a pity we never got a right hand drive version.


It looks hideous in my opinion (looks are objective), its slow barring the sports KA, and the interior is crap when compared to vehicles that cost a couple hundred more like the fabia or a corsa.
No looks are subjective, to be objective about looks we would have to not include them in the discussion.

However enigne size for engine size the Ka performs well, particularly through the gears. Actually go and drive a 1.3 Kent engined model before commenting.

The only point you get close on here is the interior is basic and the plastic a bit cheap, but its well laid out and built.


No its not a crap car as such
Then why did you use that exact word?


Im sure it is fun to drive and its design would make it competent at motorsport with some modifications but the average stock KA wouldnt suit my driving style personally.
Tried one?


How practial is it though if say you went shopping and there where four of you and you could not fold down the rear seats?
Infinity more practical than most cars in its segment and far more so that a new MINI as a good example.

Again I speak from experience, not guess work.


I couldnt care less to be honest and im starting to get my own grudges with VAG and their inter-brand politics.
I'm yet personally to see evidence of that, in this thread alone you have dragged VAG group cars into a discussion without need or merit.


Notice though that my main issue with the KA is its price, and it seems odd that im the one who is defending the new model for someone who has a problem with the KA.
No you have also said that its crap, slow, not practical and has a poor interior; so you have a lot more against it than price. If you have trouble remembering what you have said I suggest re-reading your own posts.


Scaff
 
hideous slow and crap is how I and many would describe a KA. Really you are criticising the nano for being all of the things that you previously praised the KA for.

Erm... no. Speed is subjective for one thing, but objectively the Nano takes longer to get to 40mph than the Ka does to get to 60, and the Nano also only has a 65mph-ish top speed. I would call this slow. I wouldn't call the Ka fast, but it's more than quick enough for it's intended purpose, has good torque compared to other cars of it's size with engines of a similar size, and will easily cruise at 85mph on the motorway, which is more than fast enough in most conditions.

I'm criticising the Nano for being objectively inferior in every department apart from price and perhaps economy, to every single small car released in the last 20 years.

Fun in what way? I know in a car crash the KA wouldnt be much fun,

When it was released 12 years ago the Ka was the safest car in it's class. It doesn't become less safe with age, it just becomes comparitively less safe when matched with it's competitors, which is stating the bleeding obvious when it's competitors are all a decade newer.

and for when there are 5 of you in the car it wouldnt be much fun then either. The bootspace isnt fun.

It's a city car, it doesn't need to hold 5 people or have a huge boot, so that comment is completely irrelevant.

So the KA has lift off oversteer, but then so does the fabia. Grippy front, light rear, so light in the rear infact that there have been issues with the rear brake discs rusting up on lower mileage vehicles.

Eh? Are you referring to the Ka or the Fabia with regard to rear brake discs? As far as I'm aware, the cooking models of both make do with drums. And rusting discs isn't a big problem, as a single application of the brakes cleans them anyway.

With regard to lift off oversteer, neither the Ka nor the Fabia "snap" into such a state, but the Ka is much more delicate and balanced than the Fabia, because the Ford has brilliant damping and the Fabia merely "good". The Fabia is also devoid of steering feel whereas the Ka is very informative whether power-assisted or not.

Which brings me back to main main dispute about the KA. Why would you buy one when for a extra 500 pounds you can get a much larger vehicle in that of the fabia?

Because size isn't the be-all and end-all. If you aren't in the market for a five door supermini then why would you look at the Fabia? It's not the most youthful car on the market despite the current model having been released a good 11 years after the Ka. Ask the average young person what they'd rather have and they'd say the Ka. And young people don't often need (or want) five doors.

Also I have been thinking about the KA's existence and its supposed moving on the game. In reality it hasnt done anything in particular. Its a small odd looking vehicle that is half fun to drive....The original mini like the beetle helped alot of people to get a form of cheap reliable transportation. The KA did not serve such a purpose.

You're missing the point. The Ka wasn't designed to provide first cheap transportation to a nation, but in spirit it was very close to the Mini. It had enough space, was small, fun like the Mini, cheap to buy, run, insure, maintain and repair, and had joie de vivre. It did move the game on because it's success (despite it originally being a slow-burner) showed that the public wanted more from their small cars and weren't prepared to put up with rubbish. That it quickly outsold the original Mini and Fiat Cinquecento at the time proved that it's introduction was enough to convince people.

It looks hideous in my opinion (looks are objective), its slow barring the sports KA, and the interior is crap when compared to vehicles that cost a couple hundred more like the fabia or a corsa.

I think you mean looks are subjective. It's impossible to objectify appearances, as one man's meat is another man's poison. Speed is also subjective because it depends what you're comparing to. The interior being "crap" is an opinion and one that others, myself included disagree with, and that it's not as well made as the Fabia or Corsa isn't a surprise because it's a 12 year old car and they are two or three years old at the most.

costs nearly 8 grand

It doesn't cost nearly 8 grand. That's list price. You can knock at least two grand off that as a general guide at dealerships. The price you can pay is the price you can compare with. Only idiots buy at list price.

Notice though that my main issue with the KA is its price, and it seems odd that im the one who is defending the new model for someone who has a problem with the KA.

Your main issue with the Ka seems to be virtually everything, and the price issue I've already tackled so that's irrelevant. Defend the new model as much as you like, we aren't saying it's a bad car, we're just saying that it's another generic small car, when the original Ka was a seminal small car. For many of us, that's a real disappointment.
 
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So, if Ford is smart, they'll bring this back while they're at it:

ford_puma.jpg


Please and thanks.

Sincerely,
Brad
 
You can keep the Mercury Cougar, thanks. I'll wait for Ford to make a Fusion Coupe before they try to crack that segment open again...
 
Really? How about at £4,995 then? ;)

yes thats more like it. and the thing is some people actually do pay at list price, and it will be women more so than men and funnily enough women are the main buyers.
 
yes thats more like it. and the thing is some people actually do pay at list price, and it will be women more so than men and funnily enough women are the main buyers.

Firstly, that's a sexist attitude. Secondly, it's assuming that every single woman who buys a Ka goes to buy it on their own. Thirdly, it assumes that every woman is either too weak or too dim to get any money off. Fourthly it's assuming that the car is even advertised at full list, which many aren't any more because they're trying to shift them.

And finally, if you can find gender split sales figures for the Ka you're a better man than I. I doubt the male/female difference is as large as you'd expect, given that Ford expected even the StreetKa to have an 80% bias in favour of females, and that a basic city car is likely to be more even than a very femenine small roadster. The SportKa was expected to be the complete opposite - 80% males. I'd expect the normal Ka to be roughly 2/3 female, which is hardly a massive gender divide. Apparently, the Fiesta has a 60/40 divide.
 
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No its because women tend to go on fords website, check things out, if they agree with the price they will go into the show room and order one which will be at list price. Cars already in the showroom will differ.
 
yes thats more like it. and the thing is some people actually do pay at list price, and it will be women more so than men and funnily enough women are the main buyers.

No its because women tend to go on fords website, check things out, if they agree with the price they will go into the show room and order one which will be at list price. Cars already in the showroom will differ.

Back that up with cold hard fact or retract it.

I seriously doubt that you can show that those who pay list for Ka's (of which very, very few do - keep in mind that I speak to Ford dealerships on an almost weekly basis), the majority are women.

As someone who has worked in a number of dealerships I can assure that some of the people who drive the hardest deals are women.

Quite frankly I am at the end of my tether with nonsense from you, so for the very, very, very last time......

Opinion is not fact, don't treat it as such.​

.....so I await your proof with interest. GT Planet is not the place to spout sexist nonsense such as this, something that should be blindingly obvious.


Not amused

Scaff
 
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Back that up with cold hard fact or retract it.

I seriously doubt that you can show that those who pay list for Ka's (of which very, very few do - keep in mind that I speak to Ford dealerships on an almost weekly basis), the majority are women.

As someone who has worked in a number of dealerships I can assure that some of the people who drive the hardest deals are women.

Quite frankly I am at the end of my tether with nonsense from you, so for the very, very, very last time......

Your opinion is not fact, don't treat it as such.​

.....so I await your proof with interest. GT Planet is not the place to spout sexist nonsense such as this, something that should be blindingly obvious.


Not amused

Scaff

I can only go by experience around me, such as GF's friends gfs and family members, of which ,most of them do not have a clue about cars. They can tell you about the latest designer clothes, the best ISA's and such or other things they take interest in but when it comes to cars they would just look at the internet or a car mag, choose a car for a price that suits them and go and order one in the local dealership after a test drive.

What exactly does your job entail btw.
 
I can only go by experience around me, such as GF's friends gfs and family members, of which ,most of them do not have a clue about cars. They can tell you about the latest designer clothes, the best ISA's and such or other things they take interest in but when it comes to cars they would just look at the internet or a car mag, choose a car for a price that suits them and go and order one in the local dealership after a test drive.
Well done, you just defeated your own argument of women paying full list price off the internet. Bravo.
 
What exactly does your job entail btw.

I will deal with this part first as it makes teh second reply very quick.

Currently my job title is Automotive Training Consultant, I work for a third party company (ADP DSI Ltd) who supply software solutions to the motor industry (manufacturers, importers and dealerships). My exact job role involves identifying the business needs of manufacturers and dealerships and then designing bespoke training solutions, I cover Marketing, Sales and Aftersales in this capacity (Accounts is separate).

As a result I spend a significant amount of my time in-dealership, talking to staff (from directors, dealer principals down) and customers, all of which is essential to prepare a training solution that meets the customers needs. I also deliver a wide range of training, mainly in the area of aftersales, report writing and manufacturer specific needs (again mainly in the area of aftersales).

My background in the motor industry includes a 6 year stint at Renault UK (as a customer service manager and training manager) and over a decade of work in sales and aftersales in a variety of dealership.


I can only go by experience around me, such as GF's friends gfs and family members, of which ,most of them do not have a clue about cars. They can tell you about the latest designer clothes, the best ISA's and such or other things they take interest in but when it comes to cars they would just look at the internet or a car mag, choose a car for a price that suits them and go and order one in the local dealership after a test drive.

Given the above I would say my own personal experience is a damn sight more credible that your opinion.

Even given that you have not actually posted anything that comes close to being proof of your claim.


Scaff
 
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Well done, you just defeated your own argument of women paying full list price off the internet. Bravo.

So your telling me if I go into a car dealership, there wont be cars on sale at the same price as advertised on the internet or infact even advertised more expensively?

Infact some dealerships will flat out refuse to give a discount on a car.
 
So your telling me if I go into a car dealership, there wont be cars on sale at the same price as advertised on the internet or infact even advertised more expensively?
Of course they will be, that however doesn't mean that discounts are not available.

On average a dealership will make at most around 3 - 5% on the sale of a car, however volume and registration bonuses are worth tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of pounds a year. In very broad terms selling the car itself it (within reason) far more important to a dealer that the actual price they get for it.


Infact some dealerships will flat out refuse to give a discount on a car.
True, but you are almost exclusively talking about niche dealerships here, almost every volume dealership will give discount quite freely. As long as its not a new model and doesn't have a waiting list most cars can be bought for less than retail.


Scaff
 
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I have a question:

Does SHE come with the car???
 
At least the product placement isn't as blatant as the AMC Hornet vs Matador chase...
 

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