The Bare Necessity - What Do We Really Need?

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The Bare Necessity - What Do We Really Need?

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It seems to be fairly common knowledge that a lot of automotive enthusiasts don't like the technology that's coming in their cars these days. We even have a thread about it here at GTP. But when you can go down to the local MINI dealer and option up what should be a "bare essentials" hatch to some kind of techno monster that retails for over $30K, there is something wrong. Especially when it gets in the way of driving, fuel economy, resale values, and overall reliability. Where did we go wrong? Is it because we demand so much from our cars, by doing so much in them, that we must have WiFi, two sun roofs, four LCD screens and reclining rear seats to make that 15 minute drive to Costco bearable?

Many of us are old enough to remember when most cars didn't have power windows or locks, air conditioning, or ten thousand cup holders. Most of us are old enough to have had at least a car, or two, that did without most modern technologies. In some parts of the world, automakers still offer cars that go without. I seem to recall an episode of Top Gear, where they talked about was was considered to be an "okay" Skoda that came without power anything. Maybe a radio, if you wanted it. They just don't do cars like that in the West anymore. We won the Cold War, so why should they be Spartan, right?

Enter the Bare Necessity Concepts from GM.

They've Done a Car:
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And They've Done a Truck:
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So, this begs the question - What are the bare necessities in a car or truck? Are you willing to make some "sacrifices" in the name of efficiency, cost, or something else?

Would you go for something like this?



Outside of my usual love for GM, I have to give them a thumbs up for looking at their environmental and economic problems in this way. It ends up making sense. I lived with two cars (both Volkswagens), for over four years, that didn't have power anything, much less air conditioning, and I got along just fine. In fact, their ability to do what I needed them to do on a daily basis was more than adequate. Do I need power windows and locks? Not really. Do I need a sunroof? I'd prefer to go without. What about a 300-watt stereo? Nope. Air conditioning? I don't usually use it. So why buy a car with all of it?

My only concern would be over any of these cars being fun to drive. By all means, my VW Fox fit into the "bare necessities" category in almost every way... With only 81 BHP, it was still fun to drive. Really, its the only thing that matters to me.
 
I agree that GM is on the right road with this idea. For me, the bare necessities are:
Single stacker CD player, very small like aftermarket head deck.
Air con (live in Australia, you'll understand)
Manual windows, locking, boot opening, headlights, wipers etc etc
Manual gearbox

That's it really. I hope such a car comes swiftly, it can replace the Beep Beep Barina, and be priced for around $10k AUD. All referring to the car of course, don't know about the "truck".
 
Great idea for a thread 👍

I've been driving a car for over six years now that doesn't have the following items:
  • Power steering
  • Electric windows
  • Electric mirrors
  • Electric sunroof
  • Air conditioning
  • Satnav
  • Automatic anything
  • Traction control
  • Stability control
  • ABS

Of all those things, the only three that I've wished for occasionally are aircon, ABS and power steering. But even then, I've only wanted power steering when parking, as my car is light enough to do without it most of the time. ABS would have been useful a few times, and aircon is more useful in the UK than you might think - not just to cool down a hot car, but to de-mist the windows effectively when it's cold/wet and take the humidity out of the air on the overcast, muggy days we have where it's still uncomfortable even though there's no sunlight.

Having a CD player is nice but I don't often listen to music when I'm driving anyway - it's proved more useful when I have passengers. I don't need electric anything - it's all a waste of time, it's expensive, and heavy. I can do my own windows and mirrors perfectly fine.

My ideal car to fit my principals? Something like the old Smart Roadster Light:
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Basic steel wheels (all you really need on something this small), no electric mirrors, no stereo system, two hard roof sections instead of an electric soft-top, more basic trim etc. 80bhp from a turbocharged 800cc triple for decent performance and fantastic economy (50mpg easily). Autocar tested it and very much liked it.

I'd take it a step further though - I'd want a simple five-speed manual transmission to take a second and a half off the 0-60 time (to bring it to about 9 seconds - if I ever had the money for a "project" I'd find an appropriate manual gearbox and have one fitted to a Roadster...) and increase the economy even further, manual windows, no ESP and no traction control. That car would be my perfect car.
 
Depending no the car type it's possible to make concessions for power steering. Miatas are so light that the cars without power steering aren't difficult to drive at all. You don't need it in a Civic either, but hydraulic power steering is such a simple system you might as well put it on there, especially when 60% of the weight is on the front wheels.

I've lived without air conditioning before. Reserve that for the nicer models or something. It's a very nice thing to have when it's 80 degrees out, it's raining hard, and your windows are all fogged up and you can't see where you're going.
 
Depending no the car type it's possible to make concessions for power steering. Miatas are so light that the cars without power steering aren't difficult to drive at all. You don't need it in a Civic either, but hydraulic power steering is such a simple system you might as well put it on there, especially when 60% of the weight is on the front wheels.

I'd actually have power steering in a Miata. I've driven an NA Miata with, and two without. The two without were race prepared and running wider tyres which made the steering a bit heavier anyway, but the real benefit for having power assistance would be for correcting slides etc much more easily - having more control over the wheels, rather than the wheels pulling the steering this way and that. And the power steering in the Miata is brilliant anyway, quick, accurate, loads of feel etc. It doesn't take anything away from the experience, in other words.

With the Civic I can see the point, at least for EK Civics onwards. They're heavy enough that without power steering you'd really have to work the wheel at lower speeds, and it probably wouldn't offer much more feel, and wouldn't be any more direct as they'd need to increase the ratio to compensate for the weight (my unassisted Fiesta is about 4+ turns lock to lock, a power-steered one is only 3.2 or something).

I've lived without air conditioning before. Reserve that for the nicer models or something. It's a very nice thing to have when it's 80 degrees out, it's raining hard, and your windows are all fogged up and you can't see where you're going.

This is the UK reason for having aircon...
 
Australia is supposed to be passing a law soon to make ESP standard for all cars, or not get sold here at all, so I guess that's a bare necessity now.:grumpy:
 
I think they're trying to introduce something similar in the UK, if they haven't already. I'm assuming not because I can't believe things like the base model Fiat Panda have ESP (in fact, I've just checked, and it doesn't).
 
This is all you really need.

CD player
Power Brakes
Power Steering

Air Conditioner (only in the southern climates where it reaches 90 degrees on a daily basis)

The CD player is not even a must but nice to have. Power brakes are a must for safety. Lets face it, manual brakes are horrible. Power steering also for safety. Imagine some 80 year old woman trying to drive a car without power steering. Well I guess the gearing could be changed in the gear box to make the steering easier if it only had manual steering.
 
I must be odd then, I'm an automotive enthusiast and I love the technology they are putting on cars now. A couple years ago anything more then a 4 speed automatic gear box was almost unheard of, now you have 6 speeds with DSG, or even 7 or 8 speed boxes. Traction control and stability control are nice to, especially in the winter months. Heated seats? Absolutely awesome. HID headlamps? I still don't understand why more cars don't have these. I could keep going. Granted you don't need any of it to have a working vehicle, but it's nice to have, especially if you spend a lot of time in your car like I do.

About the barest car I would consider would have to have the following:
- A radio with an AUX plug, I don't need a CD player.
- ABS, due to the weather we have here it's needed
- Power steering, I've driven a car without it, I don't want to driver another.
- Power locks and windows, not having this is a huge PITA.

I could pretty much live without everything else that isn't essential to making the car drive. However, I would hate the vehicle and be bored with it rather quickly.

My car has some extra options on it and it could use some more, but I'm happy with it and I don't think it's overboard since everything I checked the box on has some sort of use or purpose.
 
Radical SR8 or any other track day weapon. Really as basic a car as possible - yet so much enginering goes into them.

Roofs are luxuries.
 
You'd struggle to use one day in and day out though. And I expect in some places, a roof is a necessity, rather than a luxury.
 
You'd struggle to use one day in and day out though. And I expect in some places, a roof is a necessity, rather than a luxury.

Ya, like in Michigan where is rains all spring and autumn and snows all winter. I would like something covering me.
 
Yeah going out to your car in the moring with 1 foot of snow on the seat would probably be unpleasant. Its bad enough with that much snow on the outside and -8 degrees, imagine that on the inside while you drive. :lol:
 
You'd struggle to use one day in and day out though. And I expect in some places, a roof is a necessity, rather than a luxury.

It depends how far you want to take it. The track cars are a point A to B machine. Humans have survived extreme weather conditions for centuries before huts and the like. The car isn't the problem - it's the driver who decides on wether it's to stiff suspension wise.

It's as basic a car as almost what's possible - and they mostly either run small hatch or motorbike engines.
 
It depends how far you want to take it. The track cars are a point A to B machine. Humans have survived extreme weather conditions for centuries before huts and the like. The car isn't the problem - it's the driver who decides on wether it's to stiff suspension wise.

It's as basic a car as almost what's possible - and they mostly either run small hatch or motorbike engines.

Track cars are point A to A machines. ;)
 
correct - point A to B to C to A. But you can't say they're physically unable to go to the shops and back (unless there's an offroad bit - of course).

That gives me an Idea.

Track cars annnnnd the original Landie Defender.
 
what do we really need?

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It has everything I would need. True, it would be noisy and not too perky on highways with their 60mph limits, but it would be enough for me. Nowadays people are too pampered with all kinds of gadgets and gizmos that make driving dull and boring and safe. Hell, even Omega MV6, the supposed sporty model of Omega B, almost made me fall asleep thanks to being automatic with cruise control. Power brakes, power steering, that would be all I would ask from a daily driver. None of this jungle of TLA's that step in when I want to do something.
 
- ABS, due to the weather we have here it's needed
More than ABS you guys need proper winter tyres, preferably with studs. Good brakes with good feel do the trick just as well as long as you have something else than M+S labeled tyres on your car. Braking on a smooth icy road with good studs is nothing, even when compared to braking on a gravel road in the summer. Funny fact, my summer tyres have that M+S label and I wouldn't go anywhere near snow with them, much less ice.

- Power steering, I've driven a car without it, I don't want to driver another.
Power steering is nice as long as it's executed somewhat sensibly. Having driven my dad's Volvo V70 MkI I think I'd rather have a car with no power steering than that... think of a FF gaming wheel with the power plug pulled off.

- Power locks and windows, not having this is a huge PITA.
Power locks are a nice thing but I could very well live without them. And calling lack of power windows a huge PITA probably has, sorry to say, something to do with your nationality. As long as the windows open at all it's all good... unless you really want to open and close them all the time which I really can't see happening.
 
More than ABS you guys need proper winter tyres, preferably with studs. Good brakes with good feel do the trick just as well as long as you have something else than M+S labeled tyres on your car. Braking on a smooth icy road with good studs is nothing, even when compared to braking on a gravel road in the summer. Funny fact, my summer tyres have that M+S label and I wouldn't go anywhere near snow with them, much less ice.

Studded tires are illegal to run on the road in Michigan. Winter tires are better but they would work better still with ABS. I've had vehicles without ABS and they are almost on the verge of being unsafe to drive in the winter even with proper techniques.

Power steering is nice as long as it's executed somewhat sensibly. Having driven my dad's Volvo V70 MkI I think I'd rather have a car with no power steering than that... think of a FF gaming wheel with the power plug pulled off.

The only cars I've driven without power steering are those huge American cars from the past. I hated it. All modern cars I've driven with power steering has been fine.

Power locks are a nice thing but I could very well live without them. And calling lack of power windows a huge PITA probably has, sorry to say, something to do with your nationality. As long as the windows open at all it's all good... unless you really want to open and close them all the time which I really can't see happening.

Except when you make stops all the time you have to roll up your windows and lock your car. I got severely annoyed with not having power windows and locks, because yes I was doing it all the time.
 
- air con
- heated mirrors (it's Canada after all!)
- abs (does it provide benefit in winter?)
- comfy seats
- power steering
- stereo (ok with just single cd & fm radio)
- safety (airbags etc)!

How's that? Fairly minimal I think
 
It's as basic a car as almost what's possible - and they mostly either run small hatch or motorbike engines.

But they still don't have features that many people would consider a need: Roofs, for awful weather; an ability to drive in bad weather and on a variety of surfaces; an adequate level of comfort; even luggage space - the basics, in otherwords.

I'd argue that in a road car having a roof and windscreen is a must. A Radical or similar offers less than we actually need.

A car that only has what you need should still realistically give you the option to drive it all day, every day. A track car isn't really capable of this.
 
But they still don't have features that many people would consider a need: Roofs, for awful weather; an ability to drive in bad weather and on a variety of surfaces; an adequate level of comfort; even luggage space - the basics, in otherwords.

I'd argue that in a road car having a roof and windscreen is a must. A Radical or similar offers less than we actually need.

A car that only has what you need should still realistically give you the option to drive it all day, every day. A track car isn't really capable of this.

Not to mention the fact that i doubt a Radical could cope with the stop-start nature of everyday motoring. Yes the SR3 is road legal, but it doesn't mean it does it very well. You could get to and from a track day in one, but i doubt you'd want to use one for your daily commute, and with a bike engine it's not going to be very tractable at low revs.

Having said that, there are two Caterhams i see regularly on my commute to work that are obviously used as daily drivers. They're not quite as track focused as the Radical, but they don't offer all that many more creature comforts either.
 
Power steering is not terribly expensive, complicated, nor much of a weight gain in a non-track car. If you live in a place where every corner is a 90-degree angle, then a lack of power steering is a chore (I've driven several cars without it). For one day, fine. A week without P/S is frackin' annoying for commuting and running errands.

Air conditioning is a must in a southern summer. It's also nice to block out humidity and rain even when it's not hot outside. Wiping the inside of the windshield while driving is about as unsafe as it gets without the pleasure of alcohol.

As much as I like my tunes, it's not absolutely necessary, but it's hard to imagine being stuck in traffic or on an interstate for 8 hours without some music/news, especially when alone (never mind...been there, done that). Real life is rarely an open road to enjoy the sights, the wind in your face, and the accompanying sounds.

Power windows barely add any weight. Windows still need frames and regulators, and the motors weigh about 3-4 pounds each. Of course, it's something that is bound to fail on a car within 5-10 years. Power mirrors add about the same amount of weight, but the motors are usually infrequently used, unless multiple owners of varying weights and measures use the same car on a frequent basis. Given that they are pretty much universal add little to complexity and weight, there really is no going back. Again, they are not necessary, but if you're going to scotch the A/C, it's a lot easier to roll down the passenger-rear window with a remote master switch, than leaning over back and to the left/right.

Power door locks and their actuators prevent others form taking your minimalistic rides. Throw in the actuators and immobilizer computer (if separate from the engine computer module), then that's another 20-30 pounds.

Power brakes are probably one of the greatest safety advances to the modern automobile, save seat belts. So the booster weighs 20-30 pounds, the master cylinder another 20 pounds, round it up to 100 at most with the wiring, hoses, and lines.

ABS, traction control, and airbags are not necessary for the proper function of an automobile at all. But they're almost all mandated by law: If the Big Three lobbied to have them removed, the press would call them baby killers.

So what cars offer a minimalistic palette? Mostly low-priced non-performance cars, errand-runners, rental fleets, 25-year-old cars, or purpose-built track-cars with no frills. It's hard to go back, for most people... Or:

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It has power windows/locks/mirrors, four airbags, a 2-DIN radio, and power steering. It does not have ABS (er, I think), traction control, automatic gearbox, power seats, sunroof, or many luxuries. Curb weight: 2630 pounds. Even with my frame, a full gas tank, and a Mag-Lite, that's under 1.5 tons.

Automakers offer what they feel they'd lose out to the competition to: If the competition offers power seats, you have to offer it. The same with bigger wheel sizes, navigation, leather, bigger size, larger engines, beefier brakes, torsional rigidity, crash/rollover resistance, et cetera.

But it has its useless stuff, as well. My car has two map lights in addition to the dome light...they're not necessary, since the dome light is within easy reach. But there's zero bling, except for the fussy headlights. The A/C system uses less than one pound of R134a, so it is likely a small assembly of parts (probably 100 pounds of weight, with the control head). Everything is made of plastic, TPF-type rubber, or cloth inside. I'm sure there's a few pounds that could be shed, but not much. Putting it back to its original exterior (xA) dimensions might make it 2400 pounds again.

The other problem is that small cars have not resonated well with the American public; I think there's that perception that a fully-loaded Ford F150 or school bus is going to careen into you at any moment, and therefore, there's the thought that a small car gets pancaked, unlike a truck or large sedan. There's no concept of energy-absorbent materials or energy dissipation, because few people have studied basic physics, let alone mechanical engineering, so they do not have even the slightest grasp of those concepts. There's mostly a jungle mentality when it comes to the crossing of an elephant and a mouse.

Sure, lots of small cars do sell well, but they'd all gown in size in response to demand. Every two generations, a small car tends to grow up the size of the car that was once a step ahead of it. I always privately called it the "CivAcc-Theory"; as I noted in my youth how the Civic tended to grow to the size and luxury of the Accord within two generations. A whole other smaller generation of cars has returned, and they will probably follow in the same footsteps. Sure, there's the boutique nature of the Smart cars, the past demand for the xB, and other little niche cars, but will they remain popular? If we see rising gas prices, then yes, we might.

Convince people, or a coming generation, that smaller and lighter is better on the wallet, potentially beneficial to the environment, potentially reduces the impact of wastefulness, can potentially increase the enjoyment of driving, and then success for smaller cars may abound. Or...just tax the heck out of everyone with a truck or SUV or barge with an arbitrary weight cap, and you'll merely see more angry owners, who will then add a one-ounce bumper sticker, bitching about the said levy. With capitalism being the ultimate vote, their sales (in addition to their actual usefulness) will not wane if demand still exists.
 
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I think all the gubbins you often get in cars these days that folks easily did without 30 years ago but we now take for granted fall into two catagories:

Un-needed luxuries
• Multi CD autochanger with AUX in connector.
• Electric windows.
• Electric mirrors.
• Electric seats.
• Heated mirrors.
• Heated seats.
• Remote central locking.
• Traction and stability control.
• Cruise control.

Useful advancements in car safety
• ABS.
• Power steering.
• Servo assisted brakes.
• Air-bags.
 
I think a car ABSOLUTELY must have:

  • Power brakes
  • Power Steering if the vehicle weighs more than, say, 2600 pounds
  • ABS (My Blazer didn't have it, and I put it in a snow-filled ditch)
  • Aircon (even if you don't use it, it's nice to have for clearing windshields and the like)
  • Power passenger side mirror (It's too difficult to get it perfect when you have to get out and in and out and in and out and in...)
Power windows? Nah. Just don't roll the back windows down if you're alone, and the front ones are easy enough to get from the drivers' seat. I don't see the point of power locks, especially since nearly all cars have the key fob that does it. Power driver's side mirrors aren't all that necessary, either; it isn't difficult to adjust the mirror from the driver's seat. You want music? Sing to yourself. I do it when I'm alone. Airbags are nice to have just in case, but they aren't necessary for a vehicle to operate.
 
I love how they're trying to market a 'basic car' concept with a digital speedo display. :lol:
My first car was a very basic car, it had no cigarette lighter, no rear wiper, no intermittent wiper, and everything was manual controls. It was as light as a feather and handled like a go kart. I know lots of people who have tuned them to 200bhp and they absolutely fly! I could have one again as a 2nd car but I love my gadgets in the 500 too much :D

This is what I want for the weekends;
http://www.talonsportscars.com/100rt.php
 
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Since we have done some lists as to what we deem necessary...

  • Power steering and brakes
  • Preferably an ABS override (none of my cars have had it though)
  • Tight suspension
  • CD Player - basic audio setup

I guess I look at cars like the Nissan Versa 1.6, and I think, "that makes a lot of sense." Sure, it doesn't come with most things (as I recall, there isn't a radio or an A/C compressor), but if you need a cheap car that gets crazy-good fuel economy, that works out pretty well. If any company is willing to offer a stripped-out model, like what GM may be doing with this "Eco Project" deal, it could spark some kind of "race to the bottom" between everyone.
 
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