The Best "Reasonable" Roadster (formerly "Affordable")

[YSSMAN]

Probably never, apparantly its impossible to convert the Kappa platform to RHD. You might see a few LHD Opel GT's about, but they'll never sell in any volume with the wheel on the wrong side - cars never do.

I find that rather strange for GM to do. I doubt they would leave out Vauxhall to recieve the car, as the Sky design was based on their VX Lightning concept from a few years back.

I see on the Wiki that it was classified as "left-hand-drive only," but I doubt GM was stupid enough to do that.

 

[Dave A]

I was under the impression our VX Lightening concept was based on the Solstice platfrm, which I beleive is the Kappa playform, and the VXL was a rhd concept.

 

[Poverty]

Probably never, apparantly its impossible to convert the Kappa platform to RHD. You might see a few LHD Opel GT's about, but they'll never sell in any volume with the wheel on the wrong side - cars never do.

How can someone actually build a chassis that can only have the steering wheel on one side

 

[Wolfe]

There aren't as many as you may think there are, you talk like all American GM's are Euro cars brought over. I can only think of a few...but really what is wrong with that? Nothing.

As live4speed said, I was only referring to a simple fact.

I don't blame you for making that judgement on my post, though...it seems that every single time Detroit pumps out what I think is a great car, it's revealed that the car is actually a/an Mazda/Opel/Mercedes, or based on it, and I like to point this out to others who may not know.

I would never say that "all american GM's are Euro cars brought over," although I might say that "all decent/worthwhile american GM's that aren't trucks or sportscars are Euro cars brought over."

What's wrong with GM/DCX/Ford using Opel-/Mercedes-/Mazda-based cars? I'll tell you what -- american car fans and ignorant members of the general public are giving american GM/Chrysler/Ford credit and praise for making them. I know you'll tell me "but Opel is GM. It's all GM"...but it's like having your older, smarter brother do your homework for you -- just because he's a member of your family doesn't mean you deserve credit and praise for your "good work."

 

[Dave A]

How can someone actually build a chassis that can only have the steering wheel on one side

I don't think it is like that, but there's a lot of hard work making a chassis that's just as good with the wheel on either side of the car.

 

[Joey D]

As live4speed said, I was only referring to a simple fact.

I don't blame you for making that judgement on my post, though...it seems that every single time Detroit pumps out what I think is a great car, it's revealed that the car is actually a/an Mazda/Opel/Mercedes, or based on it, and I like to point this out to others who may not know.

I would never say that "all american GM's are Euro cars brought over," although I might say that "all decent/worthwhile american GM's that aren't trucks or sportscars are Euro cars brought over."

What's wrong with GM/DCX/Ford using Opel-/Mercedes-/Mazda-based cars? I'll tell you what -- american car fans and ignorant members of the general public are giving american GM/Chrysler/Ford credit and praise for making them. I know you'll tell me "but Opel is GM. It's all GM"...but it's like having your older, smarter brother do your homework for you -- just because he's a member of your family doesn't mean you deserve credit and praise for your "good work."

God when are you people going to realize it doesn't matter? It's all the same company, there is no difference what-so-ever. General Motors owns Opel, so who cares? They are all paid by the same people and they all contribute to the same stock price.

 

[Dave A]

Actually they arn't all paid by the same people, or the same bank accounts or the same anything really, I work for Homecall, which is part of Caudwell communications, which used to be part of the Caudwell group, I didn't get paid by the Caudwell group, I god paid by Caudwell communications. Another example, I used to work for a comapny called Masterserver, Masterserver was part of a company called TBS, I didn't get paid by TBS, I got paid by masterserver. Masterserver didn't have access to TBS money, if Masterserver needed money it'd have to be given it by TBS, if they were the same company that wouldn't be the case, you'd have access to all the accounts from wither company, you'd have one compnay regstration number etc.

Both comanies in both examples had different bank accounts, different registration codes etc, they were different companies. So yes, it does matter, if I buy a Vauxhall, I'm buying a Vauxhall, not a GM, if I buy a Skoda or a SEAT, I'm buying a Skoda or a SEAT, not a VW.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Arent they puting those tiny GM badges on the sides of Opels, Vauxhalls, saabs, Cadillacs, Corvettes, etc. in Europe? They made a big deal about doing it in the US so that we all know it is a GM product...

I don't have a problem with Opel parts and pieces comming to the US for the same reason BX doesnt have a problem, THEY ARE STILL COMMING FROM A GM COMPANY!

I don't even see why this is even debateable or even a problem! GM owns Opel and Vauxhall, therefore they are a part of GM. Why does it even matter? Weve been using Opel parts for years in our cars, importing their models as re-badged US-spec cars, etc. They are still a GM product, the only difference is that the car may have been designed or built in Germany, the UK, whatever.

IT IS STILL A GM CAR OR TRUCK!

 

[GT4_Rule]

I dont have any trouble with it, all companies do that now.

 

[Dave A]

No I haven't seen any GM badges on any Vauxhall's, wouldn't suprise me if it was on our Chevy's, but I could care less about Cheverolet in the UK since I could care less about Daewoo. The bottom line is an Opel is built by a company owned by GM in a factory run by Opel employee's who's wages are paid by Opel. Opel is not GM. Lamborghini are owned by audi, but a Lamborghini is still a Lamborghini, it's not a VW. Sure Opel are owned by GM, but the bottom line is an Opel is an Opel, a Cheverolet is a Cheverolet and so on, if an Opel was a GM it'd be badged GM. They ARE seperate comanies, that is not debatable, they are just owned by another company, that dosen't make them the SAME as the company that owns them.

 

[Joey D]

Still Opel is part of GM, GM owns the company, therefore if you buy an Opel you contribute to my stock shares in GM. Simple as that.

But I believe your new Speedster is nothing more then a rebadged Saturn.

 

[Dave A]

We don't have a new Speedser yet, but sure, if it's nothing more than a rebadged Saturn I'd say fair enough, it's a rebadged Saturn, just as Chevy over here is just rebadged Daewoo's, but the Astra and Vectra and Corsa are all Opel's, built by Opel employee's using Opel's money in Opel's factory here in the UK. Mazda's are built by Mazda employee's using Mazda's money in Mazda's factory, the next VX is probably built by either Saturn or Pontiac I don't know who initioally builds thoes car's, and rebodied and badged. See what I'm getting at? Call it a simple difference in perspective if you want, but ultimately you won't win in debating I'm wrong, as I'm sure I wouldn't be able to sway you.

 

[Poverty]

actaully if were being really PC opel and vauxhall is owned by GM of europe.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah but I'm not PC .

The people who build the car are the makers of the car as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Joey D]

Ok I'll agree with Poverty on that one...Jesus that's TWICE!

 

[Dave A]

It's another GTP apocalypse then .

 

[Flame-returns]

I'm going to have to vote MX-5, the previous MX-5s were all slightly gay cars, Mazda could have fixed that with a few interior changes and a slightly more manly chasis. Instead they threw away the slightly toyish interior, made the car much bigger, added in some very cool headlights, put a more intimidating angle on the windscreen, added in a flip up wind deflector (which makes a sort of "fwuup" sound when you flip it) increased the space between the seats, put a cool thingymagig on the gear knob, added in a much more mechanical feel to the interior with buttons which make satisfying "click" sounds and a very good seat mechanism, added bigger wheels, a more solid steering wheel, a boot which fits a breifcase (the last one had what could only be descibed as a boot by an Action Man), and a great single-handed operation roof instead of the little whirry electric one which hand the metal covering.

The MX-5 mhad an image problem and Mazda have come up with one hell of a solution.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

is this a case of people taking "GM" to mean American-made?
Clearly Opels are GM.
And clearly Opels are designed and built by, ze Germans (at least, most).

and no, it's not like big brother doing your homework and taking praise. It's much more like, being a businessman, making an investment, and having that investment payoff.

 

[Master_Yoda]

V-TEC BABY!
Gotta go with the S2000, just because it's one of my favorite cars.. (right behind the Nissan 300ZX, GTR R34 Skyline, and NSX.

 

[YSSMAN]

...What the hell does VTEC have to do with anything? Its not the revolutionary product that it once was, and if anything it is out of date when compared to the VANOS system at BMW, and atleast in the Japanese market, even the MIVEC system from the otherwise dreadful Mitsubishi lineup has proven to be more effective as producing power when it is needed.

Sure, I suppose i-VTEC works well with the high-reving engines that Honda builds (the same can be said for Toyota's VVT-i setup), but most people would never take use of it because it only clicks-on after 6000RPM. Who spends their time up there? Wanabe racers who think they are cool, trying to "feel" the VTEC kick, wich really is non-existant...

VTEC did what it needed to do, proving that the technology was there and that it worked to increase the efficency of an engine... But that was more than ten years ago, GET OVER IT! There have been far greater advancements in engine design since then, particularly the direct-injection systems found under the hood of the BMWs, Volkswagens, Audis, etc.

...Funny, I don't see Honda with direct-injection yet, what gives? Ohhh wait, they have VTEC, so that automatically makes them better, I forgot...

 

[LeadSlead#2]

you seem angry. or frustrated. nonetheless, you just bashed VTEC the way I wish I would have
Supposedly, GM has a fantastic new fuel-injection system that supposed to put their 3.8 V6's up to 305 hp. (from 260) where that leaves the V-8's (303HP) is a mystery and more money wasted.
just some actual new hi-tech info, to contrast variable timing announcements

 

[GT4_Rule]

you seem angry. or frustrated. nonetheless, you just bashed VTEC the way I wish I would have
Supposedly, GM has a fantastic new fuel-injection system that supposed to put their 3.8 V6's up to 305 hp. (from 260) where that leaves the V-8's (303HP) is a mystery and more money wasted.
just some actual new hi-tech info, to contrast variable timing announcements

Problem solved: put the fuel-injection system into both

 

[YSSMAN]

you seem angry. or frustrated.

No debate there, I get angry at folks who STILL bring up VTEC long-after it is a passing fad. Often times they have no idea how it works, why it works, or why something like that was important to begin with, and it drives me insane!

...It would be like me going on and on about 650cfm 4-barrel carburators, the technology has been there forever, and it has been updated and changed. I've gotten over it, as the entire industry has as well...

I still laugh when people say they can "feel" the VTEC kick in, it is just outrageous. You might hear a change in the tune of the engine, but there isnt a tug at the wheel or anything like that... It is just uneducated dribble that is repeated on and on by the Fast and Furious generation...

Get over it kids, its not 1993 anymore.

 

[Jay]

...What the hell does VTEC have to do with anything? Its not the revolutionary product that it once was, and if anything it is out of date when compared to the VANOS system at BMW

VANOS is quite a simple system indeed, just a cam phasing system which is not that special no variable lift there. Although BMW with there double VANOS and Valvetronic system allows a good variable valve timing and lift system.

iVTEC has its multi cam profile (for lift, timing and duration) system with cam phasing for added timing adjustments.

VANOS (especially without Valvetronic) is behind VTEC.

 

[YSSMAN]

...I suppose I forgot about combination with Valvetronic, my bad. I'm a bit tired, and still a bit high over the hilarious news about the PS3...

 

[Wolfe]

Valvetronic is neat...too bad it isn't very useful for an ///M engine.

@Blazin: As LeadSlead#2 said, Opels are (for the most part) built by ze Germans. Germans who are relatively inept at engineering compared to their neighbors, but Germans nonetheless.

To summarize, yes, GM of Europe is GM, and GM of Detroit is GM. My point is that GM of Europe is not GM of Detroit, and the same applies to Chrysler and Ford and their foreign-based cars.

If you believe so steadfastly that GM is GM, DCX is DCX, and Ford is Ford, then don't get mad at me when I give a nod to Opel for the Saturn Aura, or refuse to acknowledge the 300C as anything more than just a brutish version of an old E-class, or call the Ford Fusion "that Mazda 6 thing." It shouldn't matter to you, since they're "all the same company" anyway.

 

[TheCracker]

How can someone actually build a chassis that can only have the steering wheel on one side

GM managed! - i believe they needed to get the car out to beat some upcoming regulations so didn't have the time to engineer it for RHD. I guess the British, Japaneses, Australians and New Zealanders don't matter - GM obviously doesn't need their money!

I'm going to have to vote MX-5, the previous MX-5s were all slightly gay cars, Mazda could have fixed that with a few interior changes and a slightly more manly chasis. Instead they threw away the slightly toyish interior, made the car much bigger, added in some very cool headlights, put a more intimidating angle on the windscreen, added in a flip up wind deflector (which makes a sort of "fwuup" sound when you flip it) increased the space between the seats, put a cool thingymagig on the gear knob, added in a much more mechanical feel to the interior with buttons which make satisfying "click" sounds and a very good seat mechanism, added bigger wheels, a more solid steering wheel, a boot which fits a breifcase (the last one had what could only be descibed as a boot by an Action Man), and a great single-handed operation roof instead of the little whirry electric one which hand the metal covering.

The MX-5 mhad an image problem and Mazda have come up with one hell of a solution.

For me the original MX-5 was the daddy. It's just got gradually softer, more bloated and more contrived ever since. The original had a pureness of design and goal, that DNA has got watered down over the years.

Making the car bigger, giving it some 'cool' headlights, a more imtimidating angle of windscreen(?), a cool thing on the gear knob and a very good seat mechanism don't add up to a better sports car in my book.

 

[lmracer]

...I suppose I forgot about combination with Valvetronic, my bad. I'm a bit tired, and still a bit high over the hilarious news about the PS3...

care to post a quick link to this hilarious news? i wanna know..

 

[YSSMAN]

I can sum it up easily: The PS3 87-octane version with the 20GB hard drive will start at $499.99 and won't outperform the XBOX 360 in any way shape or form, and the 93-octane version with the 60GB hard drive and full 1080p support start at $599.99.

I'm still laughing about it. The Nintendo and Microsoft keynotes are today, actually the Nintendo one should be starting any minuite (they are running late), and Microsoft's is at 3:00EST.

 

[Swift]

I can sum it up easily: The PS3 87-octane version with the 20GB hard drive will start at $499.99 and won't outperform the XBOX 360 in any way shape or form, and the 93-octane version with the 60GB hard drive and full 1080p support start at $599.99.

I'm still laughing about it. The Nintendo and Microsoft keynotes are today, actually the Nintendo one should be starting any minuite (they are running late), and Microsoft's is at 3:00EST.

Let's keep this on topic gentlemen.