The BMW History : It was fifty years ago. Today...

[Prince.M5]

Here, for BMW fans, I have something to show you guys and how does BMW survived from a near collapse in 1959 when that time, they made motorcycle but the demand for motorcycle that time was soft. The shareholders meeting scheduled for 9 December 1959 promised to be the last of an independent BMW. The process that would turn BMW over to Daimler Benz, ostensibly a ‘merger’, and then for BMW to become a captive Tier 1 supplier of the Swabian firm, was well underway. Arranged before the meeting, the proposal would have meant the end to an independent BMW.

But a fly in the ointment appeared in the eleventh hour. Two stakeholders, Herr Nold and Dr. Mathern, a lawyer, improvised a dance to save the firm. While Nold, a pesky activist shareholder, kept the meeting from adjourning, Mathern worked behind the scenes to peddle the Power Plant Production (aero enignes) to MAN. The sale of the Power Plant Production would bring in enough cash to allow BMW to develop the new 700 and the proposed ‘neue klasse’ cars that would cement their mid-market offerings.

The general meeting devolved into a raucous affair, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, shouting and seething stakeholders and a board of management square in their sights. The mood in the hall was contentious, there was a sense that the proposal was not right and that BMW could be salvaged as a brand. But that was not what management had rigged and it would take a herculean effort to turn the tables and save BMW.

In the end, the company may have been saved on a technicality, an error in the financial statement allowed the meeting to be adjourned, with 10% of the voting shares consenting. A vote was taken and the necessary shares to force an adjournment, without the proposal to ‘merge’ with Daimler Benz approved, occurred. But before it could be adjourned a savior, in the form of Herbert Quandt, slowly began to view BMW as a viable concern.

Time, an incredibly precious commodity, was purchased at that meeting. Time to consolidate an approach to financial independence for BMW. Time to introduce the mid-range product needed to secure the future. And time to grow and prosper as the Bavarian Motor Works.

The single most riveting account of that meeting is found in Horst Moennich’s book, “The BMW Story: A Company In Its Time”. It is hard to think that the vibrant company we know and respect had come within a hair’s breadth of ruin exactly fifty years ago.

Source = BMWBLOG.com

 

[Jim Prower]

and if Chrysler was any indication of what would have happened to BMW...

 

[AtD94-[GT]]

Hmmm...another great automotive history's chapter:tup:.
It was 18260 days ago. Today...it was all in BMW museum.

(courtesy of AM ©)

 

[neanderthal]

I despise what BMW has become today, motorcycles aside.

 

[V8_Vantage]

I agree, they haven't made an even remotely nice looking car since the 1990 3 Series

 

[Prince.M5]

I agree, they haven't made an even remotely nice looking car since the 1990 3 Series

To be honest with you, I like all BMWs design and it suits me better. Though I have to agree with you if you think they don't look good. It's personal opinion .

There is something in BMW, which is their engineering and how their cars drive and feel like . That is the speciality of BMW.

 

[hamstrings]

The BMW Story was an awesome book.

 

[Jetboy.]

I despise what BMW has become today, motorcycles aside.

It's not for the purist anymore, it's just a cliche. I was told my views however, are olde caste and that it's not marketed for me. (To which I was thinking 🤬 you, it's marketed to the Driving Enthusiast; apparently they exist no more.) 👎 I'll take an old 2002 thanks.


Cheers.
Jetboy

 

[mbavaria30s]

It's not for the purist anymore, it's just a cliche. I was told my views however, are olde caste and that it's not marketed for me. (To which I was thinking 🤬 you, it's marketed to the Driving Enthusiast; apparently they exist no more.) 👎 I'll take an old 2002 thanks.

Sad, but seemingly true. Totally agreed on the 2002. I've already informed my wife that my mid-life crisis-mobile will likely be a 2002 or Bavaria 3.0s. Eye-rolls ensued.

I think BMWs are a quite different beast if you've ever driven some of the old guard cars, from the e3 up to even the e30. You don't get the same bare bones feeling in the newer cars.

 

[neanderthal]

I'm OK with them up to the E39 5 series and E46 3 series.

After that, its tripe.

 

[niky]

There's much to dislike about modern BMWs, but to discount the way their cars drive is to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

BMWs, despite the nannying understeer built into the suspension on non-M models and the extra nannying you get from stability control, are still fun to drive. More fun that most modern cars... still more fun than 90% of what Mercedes and Audi put out... more fun than almost anything that has more than two doors, and more fun than some things that do have two doors.

A base 320i or 120i coupe is the sweet point for me. Lightest engines in the lightest cars, best weight distribution, (about 52% weight over the rear axle) and none of the frippery on the higher end models.

Make no mistake, they may be cars for rich cats and poseurs, but BMWs are still very enthusiast oriented... their interiors are horrible for luxury cars, the ride is stiff-legged, and the balance is quite sharp on everything except the 7-series (which is still rather sharp for a long-wheelbase executive saloon).

-

Favorite would have to be the original M3. Failing that, a current diesel 320d (with the Dinan kit and the newer aluminum block) would do nicely.

 

[Leonidae]

My personal favorite would be E36 ti and coupe models. IMHO E36 M3 is just too heavy for it's own good.. That being said, original 6-series coupe would be a nice cruiser when enhanced with good taste. But, if you would chug me the keys into 123d 3dr hatch, I wouldn't mind either.. it has the power and torque to move that 1400kg+ around in sufficient manner.

 

[SR-71_Blackbird]

What about god's chariot? The E30 M3.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I love 'em all! Cars and Bikes.. from the 315 Dixi up to the F10. People should keep an open mind, BMW is getting a lot of stick at the moment for producing 'too many niche vehicles', however - as long as the product they turn out is of good quality (which it is generally regarded as being) then it doesn't matter if you feel the cars are necessary or not because the car market is about selling to millions (billions) of individuals. As long as BMW keep driving dynamics as their main focus, then they've stayed true to their identity in my opinion.

 

[Jim Prower]

Pah...I think the BMW I most want is the HP2 Sport. 4-valve boxxer twin FTW.

 

[homeforsummer]

I suspect I'm one of the few who likes modern BMWs. To criticise them for "not being what they were" is no different a criticism than you could level at the whole rest of the industry. And given that they're basically building to suit consumer niches, it's your fault that modern BMWs (/modern cars) are the way they are today.

So there.

In all seriousness, there are quite a few nice BMWs around at the mo IMO. The current 3-Series is the nicest looking since the E30, the old Z4 coupe looked great, the 1-Series stands out in a crowd (whether you consider that a good or bad thing is personal opinion, but I saw a 3dr hatch today in dark grey and it looked fab), the 7-Series is better than the previous model, the current 5 has grown on me loads (as has the X3), and the upcoming X1 is a nice design too.

Plus, they're all pretty much top of the class in their respective segments not just on handling, but for performance and for economy too.

If I had to pick a current model? Make mine a 123d coupe, preferably with some BBS rims.

 

[LSX]

Yes, I agree HFS, I've only seen a single 1 series coupe. But it made me do a double take, because after realizing what it was, it reminded me of an e30. That might not be a good thing, but I like how it's just a smaller two door, looks sporty and fun to drive. I badly want an E30, they are beyond good looking cars. I used to think if it was not American with a V8 it was pointless. Then a friend got this car, now my mind has changed and can put the e30 up as one of my favorite cars ever. This car opened my mind to foreign cars now I like imports as much as anything.

I feel like if I were to get a 1 coupe, it would be like a modern version of that, and like I said, I may be wrong to think that, but by looking, that's all I get from it.

 

[neanderthal]

BMWs have lost the "feel" they used to have. It's mostly a case of steering feel, but really, its about balance. Back when they were building cars like the E34 and E30, the cars had enough engine, brakes, suspension, for what they were. Not too much power, just enough brakes, just enough suspension and steering.


Now, they've lost the steering edge they used to have, and the "balance" they used to have is now diluted; some cars have too much engine, not enough brakes, too hard a suspension (could be run flat tires) etc.

And the others have made ground, big time. Mercedes no longer makes staid boring cars. Some of them can dance nicely, witness the current (W204?) C class. Audi is definitely in the game. Lexus, Infiniti. All are making the effort to make cars that handle well and drive dynamically. BMW is losing the plot.

 

[Prince.M5]

Enough brakes, steering and suspension is nothing without enough power. For sure it will be good around the corners but none on the straight.

They still have the steering edge. Like the M5, M3, 1er, 3er etc. They all have the best steering and if you compared the new 760Li and the S63 AMG, the BMW still have the lead. All new BMWs cars now have 50/50 weight distribution which means it will handle better around the corners. If you say they have hard suspension, if they go for soft, it will ended up like Mercedes. BMWs engines aren't that torqy like Mercedes's. BMW did better on brakes too.

I have to agree that Mercedes no longer made boring cars but now, they have switch to something which is, SPLIT PERSONALITY cars. For example, their S-Klasse AMG have a race laptime stopwatch?? For what?? Do you drive your S-Klasse around the Ring everyday?? The only mercedes that I am attracted to is the C-Klasse, the new one. Others are just plain like the new E-Klasse.

Audi did good now but there is something that really bothers me. If you search Audi A4, A5 Sportsback and the all new A8, they're all look the same!! Lexus and Infiniti are all catching and I am not hesitate to say, one day, they can come up with something like BMW and Mercedes maybe better, but the ride and quality isn't going to be like German standards. Finally, BMW isn't losing their plot.

Now for final words, the Cadillac CTS-V. Why is it faster than an M5?? Because they use the M5 as their template and in fact, they have 3 years of advantage to produce the car. The original one was based on the GM Sigma 1 chassis but that wasn't good enough until they came up with the 2009 CTS-V. They even tested the car in the Nordschleife and that's why they also have the lead. It's like, Apple made I-Phone 3G and now others are copying it like Nokia 5800, Samsung EXPERIA etc. BMW isn't losing, but others are catching because, BMW is their template. Again, BMW still leads.

 

[MatskiMonk]

BMWs have lost the "feel" they used to have. It's mostly a case of steering feel, but really, its about balance. Back when they were building cars like the E34 and E30, the cars had enough engine, brakes, suspension, for what they were. Not too much power, just enough brakes, just enough suspension and steering.

Now, they've lost the steering edge they used to have, and the "balance" they used to have is now diluted; some cars have too much engine, not enough brakes, too hard a suspension (could be run flat tires) etc.

Having had several older BMW's I have to disagree, the E24, E28 or E30 never had enough brakes! And the E34 was a little too heavy as anything less than a 525! Maybe you are looking back through nostalgic rose tinted spectacles?

And the others have made ground, big time. Mercedes no longer makes staid boring cars. Some of them can dance nicely, witness the current (W204?) C class. Audi is definitely in the game. Lexus, Infiniti. All are making the effort to make cars that handle well and drive dynamically. BMW is losing the plot.

Unless you are saying that Mercedes, Audi, Lexus and Infiniti are actually better than BMW then I don't think it's an issue, the fact that they are closing the gap doesn't mean BMW are loosing it.. just that the competition is learning, (and in some cases emulating BMW's past sucess)

 

[neanderthal]

Having had several older BMW's I have to disagree, the E24, E28 or E30 never had enough brakes! And the E34 was a little too heavy as anything less than a 525! Maybe you are looking back through nostalgic rose tinted spectacles?

As a fellow owner of several old BMWs I can tell you that they most certainly had enough brakes; on the street. I'm not talking about race cars. Now, if you took your car to the track, that was another matter altogether. Perhaps it was the cars you had.

Speaking as someone who owns 2 BMW 2002s as we speak, I can tell you that until you get to the track, the brakes are good enough. Start pushing the car hard, repeating stops, then suddenly your brakes are not sufficient. And I used to live in a very canyony/ hilly area in North Los Angeles. I
m pretty intimate with how well the brakes held up for street use.
When I took it to the track, um, disappointment.

Unless you are saying that Mercedes, Audi, Lexus and Infiniti are actually better than BMW then I don't think it's an issue, the fact that they are closing the gap doesn't mean BMW are loosing it.. just that the competition is learning, (and in some cases emulating BMW's past sucess)

Did I say they are better or did I say

And the others have made ground, big time.

That means they have made the gap smaller. Doesn't mean they've caught up.
See, BMWs were never really the be all and end all that they were reputed to be. They were, simply because the people who write about them, auto journalists, get to beat on them and drive them in a way that most people don't drive. Most people want the car to just work when they need it to. Most do. But what doe the journalists write about; on the limit handling, steering feel, controllability etc. When was the last time you needed to intricately balance your cars rear tires with the throttle on your daily drive to work?

IMO Mercedes have been better daily driver cars for years. But when you add the excitement factor, and the highly rated opinions of people who don't live with the cars for 5 or more years, you get the biased sort of opinion that made BMW what it is. It's all hyperbole. It may be true that the cars handle nicely and all that. But thats when they are driven at anything more than 5/ 10s. I never, ever, ever drive at more than 4/ 10s on my daily drive.

It's the same mentality that makes people buy gargantuan SUVs when they dont have a big family, don't tow anything, don't haul anything, don't go camping or fishing or anything like that.


Never said they were better. Reading comprehension.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Yes, I agree HFS, I've only seen a single 1 series coupe. But it made me do a double take, because after realizing what it was, it reminded me of an e30. That might not be a good thing, but I like how it's just a smaller two door, looks sporty and fun to drive. I badly want an E30, they are beyond good looking cars. I used to think if it was not American with a V8 it was pointless. Then a friend got this car, now my mind has changed and can put the e30 up as one of my favorite cars ever. This car opened my mind to foreign cars now I like imports as much as anything.

I feel like if I were to get a 1 coupe, it would be like a modern version of that, and like I said, I may be wrong to think that, but by looking, that's all I get from it.

Growing up with a couple of e30, and having driven/owned a couple more e30s, i can ONLY agree with you... to the core of my belief, the 1 series coupe is the true descendant of e30 coupe!

For now, my DD (daily driver) is an e36 328i sedan, which by the way is begging for a differential fluid flush...

 

[niky]

They're catching up, yes, and in some cases, Audi and Merc may have the edge in "fun" (C63... or any big engined C-class... RS4)... but for the bread and butter models, the advantage of BMW over its classmates is still pretty big in terms of the "fun" quotient. Of course, you have a point... what with the electric steering and all... some of that "special feel" goes wasted at pedestrian speeds... but that feeling of agility still makes a 3-series or a 5-series more fun to drive in traffic than most. A C-Class has the same feeling, but the edges of its dynamic envelope are much smaller, unfortunately... and it doesn't take more than 8/10ths driving to expose that.

They still have the steering edge.

It's nice... but... no.

About the only manufacturers that can seem to eke out decent feel from electric power steering systems are Mini and Mazda. Mazda with the Mazda6, not the MX-5... and the second generation Mini has lost some of the directness of feel.

BMW is pretty good for an electric system, but it's not the be-all and end-all of electric racks.

If you say they have hard suspension, if they go for soft, it will ended up like Mercedes.

Soft =/= incapable. The Mazda MX-5 is very soft, but it drives better than a 1-series. BMW's incredibly harsh ride is due to the run-flats, and is absolutely unnecessarily uncomfortable over small, sharp bumps and ruts. Other products fare a little better (I like the ride of the 5 and X5, the 3 is tolerable), but the X3 has a special place in suspension hell in my car-bible...

 

[neanderthal]

Exactly.

A first gen Miata has better feel than most BMWs from pretty much all eras too. And, coincidentally, a first gen Miata is also a car that is "balanced." Not too much power, not too much brakes, not too much steering or suspension. Much like old BMWs used to be.

The hallmark of a balanced car is that everyone who drives one thinks it only needs more power. But if you add more power, you have to add brakes. And that begets new steering knuckles and bearings and so on. And bigger swaybars, and suddenly that nicely balanced car is a little heavy, so you have to add a little more power and the cycle continues.

 

[Jetboy.]

The hallmark of a balanced car is that everyone who drives one thinks it only needs more power..

I could go with that, I suppose. I'm a purist. I feel that the proper car has manual steering, manual transmission, and all lacks of ammenities except the basics (read: heat). Old BWM's reflect this, early Miata's (well they had A/C), Elises.. The NEW BMW misses this mark, even the 1 series, as much as it is the successor to the vaunted E30. I'm not asking it to be bare-bones, just more pure. I'm tired of "flappy paddles" and I-Drive (Thankfully not avaliable on the 1). That's not a Real Driver's Machine, that's an exectutive office away from the one at work you just left. 👎 I dunno, forgive my ramblings, I'm a dying breed.


Cheers,
Jetboy

 

[Prince.M5]

I have to be honest here. The run flat tyres is the BIGGEST mistake that BMW have done in years. It's a great idea but guess what, they also tuned the suspension to accomodate the RFL. That's what made the cars soo harsh and soo uncomfortable. However, you can choose an option to not having yours in RFL. I've heard a lot of bad story about the RFL through the concumers and I have to say the idea is good but the answer is a mess.

Reasons to have Run-Flat Tyres. Check this out.

Also you can have BMW in manual but the reason why they fit in Flappy Paddle, 8-Gears etc. is because, they don't want to sacrifice perfromance and fuel efficiency. You have fun and true driver feeling through traditional manual but you lost the perfromance. You have Flappy Paddle and 8-Speed because you want performance but you have to sacrifice the fun but I have to say, eventhough I'm not driving yet but it's fun but not as much fun as playing around with the clutch and the gearstick, heel and toe but still there is some fun.

 

[MatskiMonk]

As a fellow owner of several old BMWs I can tell you that they most certainly had enough brakes; on the street. I'm not talking about race cars. Now, if you took your car to the track, that was another matter altogether. Perhaps it was the cars you had.

Speaking as someone who owns 2 BMW 2002s as we speak, I can tell you that until you get to the track, the brakes are good enough. Start pushing the car hard, repeating stops, then suddenly your brakes are not sufficient. And I used to live in a very canyony/ hilly area in North Los Angeles. I
m pretty intimate with how well the brakes held up for street use.

Maybe I'm one of the people that drives at more than 4/10's on the street then? The worst culprit was the 635CSi (before she was stolen ), I spent quite alot of money refurbishing the entire brake system with original parts, so I know it was up to spec, but despite my vow to keep the car factory original spec I ended up fitted fast road pads, which on their own made a huge difference.. don't get me wrong the standard set-up will stop the car fine, when driving around town or from high speed.. but if you string some twisty roads together for more than a few miles then it's a different story. The E28's have been pretty much the same story, the E30 wasn't so bad, but then it was only a 320i Auto, so it didn't get quite the same amount of exercise.

Did I say they are better or did I say

That means
......
or anything like that.

Never said they were better. Reading comprehension.

It was the statement that 'BMW are loosing the plot' I was taking issue with... they are still ahead of the competition, and they aren't doing anything crazier than the competition are either - so whats your point of reference for BMW having lost the plot?

 

[///M-Spec]

BMW is pretty good for an electric system, but it's not the be-all and end-all of electric racks.

Not all BMW racks are electric assist racks. In fact, only some of them are.

The 1-series and 3-series use electric racks, but only with certain powertrain options. All the diesel cars use it. Some of the fours bangers do. None of the six pots do. And any car with ActiveSteering does not. All Z4s use them. I am unsure of the X cars, but I think the X5 and X6 are hydraulic. 5s, 6s and 7s are hydraulic as well.

All the Ms use a hydraulic rack --with the possible exception of the X/Ms ; I'm not sure what they use. And I'm not sure I care either

A first gen Miata has better feel than most BMWs from pretty much all eras too.

As the previous owner of a '96 Miata M as well as numerous BMWs, I can't agree with you. I also thought the steering in our Miata was not anything special. In fact, it was quite leaden compared to the rest of the controls. My E36 M3s gave you a *much* better idea of what the front tires were doing-- it wasn't even close.

What the Miata has is a lot of NVH. While some of it certainly connects the driver with the car, I wouldn't consider that all "feel".

Of course, this is a debatable topic. But to me, "feel" is useful information about act of driving. Sometimes a certain noise, vibration or texture is important. But most of the time noise is just noise. IMO, the best cars filter out the unimportant sensations and only pass along what the driver needs to perform and enjoy his work.

So a mid corner bump should be communicated, but should not jar the car with unnecessary and excessive drama. The driver should know exactly how many revs the engine is making at all times, but he doesn't need the shifter to buzz like a Dremel tool in his hand and he doesn't need his seat bottom to quiver sympathetically with the powertrain.

My first BMW was an E30. I think the E90 is a vastly better BMW in every way, and I don't even think it's the best 3er by a wide margin.


M

 

[niky]

The hallmark of a balanced car is that everyone who drives one thinks it only needs more power. But if you add more power, you have to add brakes. And that begets new steering knuckles and bearings and so on. And bigger swaybars, and suddenly that nicely balanced car is a little heavy, so you have to add a little more power and the cycle continues.

From bitter experience, yeah... that's the way to go...

Not all BMW racks are electric assist racks. In fact, only some of them are.

The 1-series and 3-series use electric racks, but only with certain powertrain options. All the diesel cars use it. Some of the fours bangers do. None of the six pots do. And any car with ActiveSteering does not. All Z4s use them. I am unsure of the X cars, but I think the X5 and X6 are hydraulic. 5s, 6s and 7s are hydraulic as well.

All the Ms use a hydraulic rack --with the possible exception of the X/Ms ; I'm not sure what they use. And I'm not sure I care either

But the base models are where the balance is sweetest. I was aware of the M's use of the hydraulic rack... though the M doesn't matter in this discussion if we're talking about BMW losing the plot... since I think BMW still has the M formula (excepting the X/Ms) completely right.

-

I guess the Miata is a matter of preference. I was blown away after the first drive. A friend bought one and complained the steering was crud... it was only after a while that he got beyond the initial slowness of the steering and found the meat in it. It was the same thing with the NC Miata. Hated the steering after five minutes. Took him half an hour to reach the same conclusion.

 

[Kutscher80]

From my point of view BMW is not as sporty anymore as they were. Only the M Models have nowadays a limited-slip-differential. The E36 you could buy it at least as an extra...
And I drive an E46 325i... Good car but on wet surfaces or snow it would be nice to have the LSD.