The BMW History : It was fifty years ago. Today...

[neanderthal]

What does overrated mean?
What context are we using?

You could both well be right.

 

[homeforsummer]

What does overrated mean?
What context are we using?

You could both well be right.

^ This. Though I suspect that few people who've actually driven a BMW would consider them "overrated" unless they've picked a particularly bad one (which is fairly hard to do - even things like the 5-Series GT and the X3, though unpopular and not as good as their competitors are still pretty good in isolation).

 

[neanderthal]

i still want to know exactly what they mean by overrated.

It's one of those words, like "better." You have to reference what is "better." And in what way.

 

[Prince.M5]

i still want to know exactly what they mean by overrated.

The meaning of overrated is something that is rated to high or is apraised highly.

Some people don't like something that is too overrated but some does. Like me, I don't like things that is overrated but in this case, BMW is not too overrated. Unlike the cars from Japanese like Mitsubishi Evo, Nissan R34/35 etc. which is very popular and highly apraised by its performance and looks thus that's why I and maybe some called them as overrated but I believe, not BMW Hope you got what I mean 👍

 

[Prosthetic]

All of those brands are overrated.

 

[neanderthal]

The meaning of overrated is something that is rated to high or is apraised highly.

Some people don't like something that is too overrated but some does. Like me, I don't like things that is overrated but in this case, BMW is not too overrated. Unlike the cars from Japanese like Mitsubishi Evo, Nissan R34/35 etc. which is very popular and highly apraised by its performance and looks thus that's why I and maybe some called them as overrated but I believe, not BMW Hope you got what I mean 👍

Jesus. English may be my 5th language, but I know the meaning of overrated. I'm not infernally dumb. Read what I posted. Again.

i still want to know exactly what they mean by overrated.

It's one of those words, like "better." You have to reference what is "better."And in what way.

Do you see the bolded part? The underlined part?

Manchester United is overrated. That is a stupid statement unless you know the context. In comparison to who. And exactly what is it about them that is overrated.

What I want to know, is what metric is it that is overrated? What particular value are you measuring that lets you make such a meaningless blanket statement. Because as a performance value, BMWs are overrated. In fact, all those cars you listed as overrated are superior to BMWs on that. particular. metric.

So. Now that we are on the same page.
What. Do. YOU. Mean. By. Overrated.

It's not rocket science. It's not brain surgery. Heck, it's not a simple rugby drill. Define what you mean by overrated.

 

[Prince.M5]

What. Do. YOU. Mean. By. Overrated.

Owkey mate I'm bloody sorry. I didn't meant that you're dumb or anything it's just that we're not using our first language. Plus, I haven't slep for 1 and a half day. I hope you understand my condition now and I tried my best to answer as many question as I can but since I'm too sleepy, but I will try. Sorry again mate. Sorry for me being this Stupid today.

So let me tell you, why do I think BMW is not too overrated and why is that some Japanese cars are too overrated. ;- Owkey easy to say, what Prosthetic is true that all BMW and some Japanese brands like Nissan are all overrated.

But the thing is though, Nissan is too overrated since they are very well known for it's flagship, the R35 GTR that is very famous all around the world and verry much praised for its performance by severe Car Magazines and so on. They also appear a lot more in some racing games compared to BMW but nowadays, even BMW shows up quite a lot in racing games. At some point, some say that the Nissan cars are better looking than what BMW have and that puts more to Nissan ways. Nissan Interior is sometimes better than BMW since BMW's interiors are pretty much looks the same and too simple BUT BUT BUT... I like it .

Performance wise or should I say engineering wise, I have to say, BMW performance and engineering are better after winning severe awards with the TT 6 Inline engine thus put the BMW to be overrated here. But DO NOT discount some Nissan cars especially the GTR. These are just the points that I can came up with and if you're disagree with some points here, just tell me. Sorry for this 👍

EDIT : Technology, well even BMW have the i-Drive system and some more stuff like Active Steering etc. Some people says that the i-Drive system is too complicated and rubbish so I consider that as underrated and people don't like them. While in the GTR, they have that kinda like the i-Drive system that computes your rev, boost and stuffs in there, they are very cool and very useful that in fact, it was designed by the man who creates the GT Series graphics. A lot of people like it!!! For other Nissan, hmmmm... pretty much normal though.

 

[Jetboy.]

I'll agree that Nissan is getting overrated. Listening to the fanboys, if Nissan stopped selling every car and just focused on the GT-R series the world wouldn't tell a difference. That's uncool and really unfair. Same with Mitsubishi and the 4G63-series cars. Same with seemingly anything with the boxed H on it's nose.

To be fair however, it's the people that make it overrated, not the car is overrated itself. One could argue that the older vaunted M3 is godsend of automotive journalism and is thus, overrated. Problem here is that in the US, there are not many packages that carry all the qualities it did; it was hard to beat. The sound, the feel, the quality... Everything from the switchgear to the fact that there was a (somewhat) affordable coupe with rear wheel drive that wasn't dragging its knuckles with a live axle or trying to shake its interior apart. No one else seems to do it right.


I hate to say it, but I feel that BMW is rated well for what they make. I'm just tired of seeing the same winners every year.



Cheers
Jetboy

 

[neanderthal]

So far, you've said nothing.

What METRIC do you define overrated for all those cars you mentioned.

You've mentioned performance, you've mentioned interiors, you've mentioned the popularity in video games. But you haven't said anything detrimental about the performance. Or the interiors. And I don't get what the number of video games a car is in has anything to do with anything.

What aspect of Nissan performance is overrated? Or the interiors?

And good job ducking out of responding about all the others cars you so cavalierly labelled as overrated.
What makes them overrated? Just answer the question.

This is what I want to see.
List the car you named.
State what about it is overrated.
State why that thing is overrated.
List another car with a better performance/ whatever to demonstrate that it is in fact inferior.

Repeat. Just with a different car.

 

[Jetboy.]

So far, you've said nothing.

What METRIC do you define overrated for all those cars you mentioned.

You've mentioned performance, you've mentioned interiors, you've mentioned the popularity in video games. But you haven't said anything detrimental about the performance. Or the interiors. And I don't get what the number of video games a car is in has anything to do with anything.

What aspect of Nissan performance is overrated? Or the interiors?

And good job ducking out of responding about all the others cars you so cavalierly labelled as overrated.
What makes them overrated? Just answer the question.

This is what I want to see.
List the car you named.
State what about it is overrated.
State why that thing is overrated.
List another car with a better performance/ whatever to demonstrate that it is in fact inferior.

Repeat. Just with a different car.

Holy crap I hope that's not aimed at me too.

 

[neanderthal]

If you stated that "X" was overrated, then it was certainly aimed at you too.

I just hate blanket, open statements that have no corroboration. "The Lakers are better" Than WHO? The Dodgers? Arsenal? The All Blacks.

Than who? And in what?

The BMWs are overrated. OK. Than what? And in what way?
Nissans? Hondas? Mitsubishis? Toyotas?

What aspect is overrated. What about them makes them overrated.

 

[TVC]

i still want to know exactly what they mean by overrated.

It's one of those words, like "better." You have to reference what is "better." And in what way.

Is BMW really any better than it's competitors?

The M3 isn't any better than the CTS-V or RS4. You could even say the CTS-V and RS4 are better than the M3 and be right.

Basically I don't think BMW is as good as Audi and Cadillac who are probably BMW's biggest competitors. Mainly because they do not perform as well.

 

[JB-BMW1989]

Whatever in the top 10 motor vehicle manufacturing companies by volume right now, these cars are overrated. Just to let you know, there are not a lot of RX7s and RX8s were produced and sold from Mazda. The only Japanese car manufacturers that are overrated are Nissan, Honda and Toyota. Nissan is overrated because of the Nissan GT-R (R35) and besides, it's a stupid looking mecha-knockoff car. By mecha-knockoffs, I meant anything that mimic giant robots and by stupid looking, I meant it's ugly and bulky. Subaru, Mazda and Mitsubishi aren't overrated, they are not even in the top 10. BMW ranked #14 and is considerably underrated.

 

[TVC]

Whatever in the top 10 motor vehicle manufacturing companies by volume right now, these cars are overrated. Just to let you know, there are not a lot of RX7s and RX8s were produced and sold from Mazda. The only Japanese car manufacturers that are overrated are Nissan, Honda and Toyota. Nissan is overrated because of the Nissan GT-R (R35) and besides, it's a stupid looking mecha-knockoff car. By mecha-knockoffs, I meant anything that mimic giant robots and by stupid looking, I meant it's ugly and bulky. Subaru, Mazda and Mitsubishi aren't overrated, they are not even in the top 10 which means BMW ranked #14 and is considerably underrated.

I don't understand how production numbers show how overrated a car company is.

I have heard quite a few people consider the three companies you listed (Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Subaru) overrated. Just look at the Evo, STI, and RX-8/RX-7. A lot of people consider them overrated. The RX-8 and RX-7 not as much as the Evo and STI.

Also I don't really understand why any of those companies were even brought up.

 

[JB-BMW1989]

@TVC

Hahaha, that's because people who think the RX7 and RX8 are overrated, they drive Honda, Toyota and Nissan cars. The AE86 Trueno is overrated, the Fairlady Z and the S2000 as well. The latest BMW Z4 is one of the most underrated cars ever built. The design is actually well-designed and has a better engine compared to the Fairlady Z34. The reason why Jeremy Clarkson think the Z34 is better than the Z4 because it is faster than the Z4. He is that biased, but the Z34 is ugly.

I got interested with Nissan before, and when my brother got me into BMW, I realized that Nissan made the only best car: the 35 GT-R. Nissan doesn't make great cars, they only made one so far and the GT-R is rated the best by car reviewers. The top 10 car companies that are listed by volume, they made a lot of money and they made cars that are reliable, efficient and comfortable for buyers. The top 10 car companies are highly praised by car reviewers and car enthusiasts alike, but I hate that they are for the money. BMW is never for the money, they are for quality.

 

[Prince.M5]

You've mentioned performance, you've mentioned interiors, you've mentioned the popularity in video games. But you haven't said anything detrimental about the performance. Or the interiors. And I don't get what the number of video games a car is in has anything to do with anything.

What aspect of Nissan performance is overrated? Or the interiors?

This is what I want to see.
List the car you named.
State what about it is overrated.
State why that thing is overrated.
List another car with a better performance/ whatever to demonstrate that it is in fact inferior.

Repeat. Just with a different car.

The reason why I give the game point is that, how many games in this world that feature the Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo, Toyota Supra and some others?? A lot!! Like the NFS Series. Because of the performance and the ability of those cars in those games, they're getting popular. Like in the NFS Underground, they're amongts the top cars that you have to unlock. You mod it to look good. One day, this guy says ''Hey I just bought a Nissan Skyline and that car is very fast! I like it!''. And this guy says ''Yeah I just added a spoiler and decals to the car and now it looks good!''. Because of that, it gains its popularity and thus make it overrated.

The aspect that made the Nissan Performance overrated is because of the ability of the engine that they made managed to surpassed the ultimate BMW M3 V8. They are very powerfull and fact that the engine was hand made. They're not doing good in effiency though unfortunately. For the interior, they made the interiors different for each of their cars and they also used a very good quality like wood trim, plactics etc. that made people like their interiors but they can't match the quality of the BMW. But the let down of BMW is that all the BMW interiors across the line are just the same and people don't like it for some.

Let me list down the cars that I think is overrated although not all. Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo, Toyota Supra, RX7/8 and AE86.

What about them that is overrated and why. Nissan GTR, looks and performance since it surpassed the perfromance of the BMW M3 and far more popular than the M3. Mitsubishi Evo, looks and ability of the handling that surpassed handling of the M3 but lacks of performance also more popular than the M3. Toyota Supra, performance of the car that when it's tuned, it really is a hardcore. RX7/8, the ability of the handling which is by far better the handling of the M3 also popularity. AE86 which I think is far too overrated is because of those hardcore drifters and the ability of the car to do amazing drifts compared to BMW M3 and some other BMW like the 1er.

You know what, why don't you make a thread regarding to What do you mean by overrated the same series like what M-Spec did. Better that way and let see what people think about it.

 

[McLaren]

Is BMW really any better than it's competitors?

The M3 isn't any better than the CTS-V or RS4. You could even say the CTS-V and RS4 are better than the M3 and be right.

Basically I don't think BMW is as good as Audi and Cadillac who are probably BMW's biggest competitors. Mainly because they do not perform as well.

Are you telling us that a BMW M3 does not perform as well as an Audi, let alone a Cadillac? I will give you the Audi because the 2 have been in a fight with Merc. for years. But, there is only one car Cadillac has that can stand next to BMW & the only thing it's done is compete with a now outdated M5. Against the M3, it can only best it at Virgina & the 'Ring. Everywhere else, the M3 has beaten the CTS-V because the M3 brings out the sad fact that America has a nasty habit of throwing more power at its cars just to keep them competitive.

Mercedes, Jaguar, & even Porsche though, are all much bigger competitors to the BMW brand, than Cadillac. I think even the Infiniti G37 & M45 are bigger competitors than Cadillac. As I said, Cadillac has only 1 car that threatens BMW & it's the CTS-V & only the CTS-V. A regular CTS is about as nice as base model 3 because it certainly isn't 335i nice. And I certainly don't find it or the STS as nice as my 5. And the XLR, well that's just a grossly overpriced Corvette with a Caddy badge that tries to compete against the 6 Series.

 

[homeforsummer]

Is BMW really any better than it's competitors?

The M3 isn't any better than the CTS-V or RS4. You could even say the CTS-V and RS4 are better than the M3 and be right.

Basically I don't think BMW is as good as Audi and Cadillac who are probably BMW's biggest competitors. Mainly because they do not perform as well.

To your first question, I'd suggest that they are. Why? They consistantly score highly in road tests, and in comparison tests they consistantly beat their competitors. They're also highly praised by driving purists.

To your second paragraph, I'd say that you're using a very limited scope in which to say that BMW aren't as good as their competitors. You're picking one single performance model out of a huge range and making the connection that "that car isn't as good, so the rest of the range can't be either" even though there are hundreds of variants throughout the manufacturer's range. Personally, I'd pick an RS4 over an M3 but I certainly wouldn't pick the Caddy. I wouldn't pick a Lexus IS-F over the BMW either.

And I wouldn't pick any of their cars (IS, A4, CTS) over the standard 3-Series because going on raw data alone the BMWs are generally better performing and a fair chunk more economical at the same time. I prefer the look of the A4, but I reckon I'd enjoy owning a BMW more - and yet I wouldn't really have to compromise in any area to own one.

Regarding your third paragraph, what makes you think that BMW aren't as good as Audi and Cadillac (and you seem to be forgetting BMWs main competitor Mercedes-Benz, as well as Lexus. And several other marques)? I'd disagree that they perform better - a quick look at the stats shows that BMWs are highly competitive on raw numbers. They're also generally praised for their handling, something that can't be said for Audi and Caddy as a whole. Styling is far too subjective to use as a measure of judging whether something is better, so personal preference there is irrelevant.

If I were to be cynical for a second, I'd suspect that your judgement on BMW is based on one or two factors - that you a) don't like the styling and b) have an allegiance to another marque and therefore have an irrational dislike of BMWs.

 

[niky]

To add to this:

BMW is over-rated in what way? If we compare performance BMWs to the competition... say:

The M3 isn't any better than the CTS-V or RS4. You could even say the CTS-V and RS4 are better than the M3 and be right.

How is it not better? What metric do we use to define better? BMW's tagline is "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

It's not "The Ultimate Speed Machine" or "The Ultimate Power Machine". The raison d' etre for any BMW M-product is the driving experience and the feel of the car. Subjects which are highly subjective and which have nothing to do with lateral-G's, horsepower or acceleration.

The only metric we can measure "experience" by is how BMW products are rated compared to the competition (same/similar price/market-segment), and they are rated very highly indeed in terms of subjective criteria (though may sometimes lose a comparison due to performance numbers).

And having driven said products in comparison to the competition, whatever their faults (and BMWs have their faults) and no matter how far they've strayed from their original ethos, BMW products still have better "feel" than their direct competitors.

While yes, there are faster cars, perhaps better sounding cars... but BMW is still the best at what it does.

-

This is not to excuse the abomination that is the 5-GT, the X3's execrable ride comfort or the pug-ugliness of the 1-series (the fascia... the body itself has nice lines... but the details!).

 

[neanderthal]

The reason why I give the game point is that, how many games in this world that feature the Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo, Toyota Supra and some others?? A lot!! Like the NFS Series. Because of the performance and the ability of those cars in those games, they're getting popular. Like in the NFS Underground, they're amongts the top cars that you have to unlock. You mod it to look good. One day, this guy says ''Hey I just bought a Nissan Skyline and that car is very fast! I like it!''. And this guy says ''Yeah I just added a spoiler and decals to the car and now it looks good!''. Because of that, it gains its popularity and thus make it overrated.

The aspect that made the Nissan Performance overrated is because of the ability of the engine that they made managed to surpassed the ultimate BMW M3 V8. They are very powerfull and fact that the engine was hand made. They're not doing good in effiency though unfortunately. For the interior, they made the interiors different for each of their cars and they also used a very good quality like wood trim, plactics etc. that made people like their interiors but they can't match the quality of the BMW. But the let down of BMW is that all the BMW interiors across the line are just the same and people don't like it for some.

Let me list down the cars that I think is overrated although not all. Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo, Toyota Supra, RX7/8 and AE86.

What about them that is overrated and why. Nissan GTR, looks and performance since it surpassed the perfromance of the BMW M3 and far more popular than the M3. Mitsubishi Evo, looks and ability of the handling that surpassed handling of the M3 but lacks of performance also more popular than the M3. Toyota Supra, performance of the car that when it's tuned, it really is a hardcore. RX7/8, the ability of the handling which is by far better the handling of the M3 also popularity. AE86 which I think is far too overrated is because of those hardcore drifters and the ability of the car to do amazing drifts compared to BMW M3 and some other BMW like the 1er.

You know what, why don't you make a thread regarding to What do you mean by overrated the same series like what M-Spec did. Better that way and let see what people think about it.

fail

I give up.

 

[neanderthal]

Gentlemen.
I give you my profound thanks for bringing reason and intelligence into this discussion. For cutting straight to the meat of the argument, and not circling around it with vague observations and muddled opinions. For being concise with your words, being clear and well understood.


I thought I had been clear as well, but apparently only you two (of the few respondents) can look at a sentence and derive its meaning or intent without waffling or waxing poetic about things that don't make sense.

I salute thee.

To your first question, I'd suggest that they are. Why? They consistantly score highly in road tests, and in comparison tests they consistantly beat their competitors. They're also highly praised by driving purists.

To your second paragraph, I'd say that you're using a very limited scope in which to say that BMW aren't as good as their competitors. You're picking one single performance model out of a huge range and making the connection that "that car isn't as good, so the rest of the range can't be either" even though there are hundreds of variants throughout the manufacturer's range. Personally, I'd pick an RS4 over an M3 but I certainly wouldn't pick the Caddy. I wouldn't pick a Lexus IS-F over the BMW either.

And I wouldn't pick any of their cars (IS, A4, CTS) over the standard 3-Series because going on raw data alone the BMWs are generally better performing and a fair chunk more economical at the same time. I prefer the look of the A4, but I reckon I'd enjoy owning a BMW more - and yet I wouldn't really have to compromise in any area to own one.

Regarding your third paragraph, what makes you think that BMW aren't as good as Audi and Cadillac (and you seem to be forgetting BMWs main competitor Mercedes-Benz, as well as Lexus. And several other marques)? I'd disagree that they perform better - a quick look at the stats shows that BMWs are highly competitive on raw numbers. They're also generally praised for their handling, something that can't be said for Audi and Caddy as a whole. Styling is far too subjective to use as a measure of judging whether something is better, so personal preference there is irrelevant.

If I were to be cynical for a second, I'd suspect that your judgement on BMW is based on one or two factors - that you a) don't like the styling and b) have an allegiance to another marque and therefore have an irrational dislike of BMWs.

To add to this:

BMW is over-rated in what way? If we compare performance BMWs to the competition... say:



How is it not better? What metric do we use to define better? BMW's tagline is "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

It's not "The Ultimate Speed Machine" or "The Ultimate Power Machine". The raison d' etre for any BMW M-product is the driving experience and the feel of the car. Subjects which are highly subjective and which have nothing to do with lateral-G's, horsepower or acceleration.

The only metric we can measure "experience" by is how BMW products are rated compared to the competition (same/similar price/market-segment), and they are rated very highly indeed in terms of subjective criteria (though may sometimes lose a comparison due to performance numbers).

And having driven said products in comparison to the competition, whatever their faults (and BMWs have their faults) and no matter how far they've strayed from their original ethos, BMW products still have better "feel" than their direct competitors.

While yes, there are faster cars, perhaps better sounding cars... but BMW is still the best at what it does.

-

This is not to excuse the abomination that is the 5-GT, the X3's execrable ride comfort or the pug-ugliness of the 1-series (the fascia... the body itself has nice lines... but the details!).

And McLaren, to a lesser extent.

 

[Prince.M5]

I am sorry everyone for me being STUPID in here...

 

[///M-Spec]

I already had to lock a thread in December. Don't make me lock two, m'kay?


That being said; niky and HFS usually have something good to add to just about any conversation. Good posts guys.


M

 

[neanderthal]

The reason why I give the game point is that, how many games in this world that feature the Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo, Toyota Supra and some others?? A lot!! Like the NFS Series. Because of the performance and the ability of those cars in those games, they're getting popular. Like in the NFS Underground, they're amongts the top cars that you have to unlock. You mod it to look good. One day, this guy says ''Hey I just bought a Nissan Skyline and that car is very fast! I like it!''. And this guy says ''Yeah I just added a spoiler and decals to the car and now it looks good!''. Because of that, it gains its popularity and thus make it overrated.

So, video game popularity= overrated. FAIL.

The aspect that made the Nissan Performance overrated is because of the ability of the engine that they made managed to surpassed the ultimate BMW M3 V8.?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! They are very powerfull and fact that the engine was hand made. They're not doing good in effiency though unfortunately. For the interior, they made the interiors different for each of their cars and they also used a very good quality like wood trim, plactics etc. that made people like their interiors but they can't match the quality of the BMW. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? But the let down of BMW is that all the BMW interiors across the line are just the same and people don't like it for some.

So, Nissans engine in the GTR (I assume that is the engine you are talking about) makes a lot more power than BMWs and it is overrated because it uses more fuel? FAIL.
And it isn't hand built? FAIL.
And because the interiors are different for each car, that they are overrated? FAIL.
Even though, by your own admission they are very good. FAIL.

BMW only competes in the luxury car market. Nissan does not. Hence the variance in interiors. I'm not going to explain that. I shouldn't have to.

Let me list down the cars that I think is overrated although not all. Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo, Toyota Supra, RX7/8 and AE86.

What about them that is overrated and why. Nissan GTR, looks and performance since it surpassed the perfromance of the BMW M3 and far more popular than the M3.

FAIL.

Mitsubishi Evo, looks and ability of the handling that surpassed handling of the M3 but lacks of performance also more popular than the M3.

FAIL.

Toyota Supra, performance of the car that when it's tuned, it really is a hardcore.

So how is it overrated? FAIL.

RX7/8, the ability of the handling which is by far better the handling of the M3 also popularity.

FAIL

AE86 which I think is far too overrated is because of those hardcore drifters and the ability of the car to do amazing drifts compared to BMW M3 and some other BMW like the 1er.

FAIL.

You know what, why don't you make a thread regarding to What do you mean by overrated the same series like what M-Spec did. Better that way and let see what people think about it.

I'm not interested in other peoples ideas about overrated. You used the word, so I want to know what YOU mean when you use it. (You and TVC, but he has kept mum about it.)

All you were supposed to do is state what cars you thought were overrated and what (metric) about them was overrated. You failed. Miserably. I'll put it down to a communications barrier as I suspect English is not your primary language.
In many cases you listed reasons why cars were superior to the M3. In one instance you even stated that people liked the interiors of the Nissan. Which befuddles the thinking mind.

If you take away one thing from this exchange, please let it be this; overrated DOES NOT mean popular. The Camry is the most popular car in the United States by sales. That does not mean it is overrated. It's rather mundane. But it is popular because it does what people want it to do. And the M3 is not some magical marker by which all cars must be judged. It is far from the be all and end all of cars.
Now, if you were using the E39 M5.....

I think you are taking the literal meaning of the word; to hold something in overly high regard; and substituting popular for "high." I'll put it down to a language barrier.

 

[neanderthal]

I was composing my response while you two chimed in.

 

[Lucas]

So, video game popularity= overrated. FAIL.

Not when people believe they are the greatest cars on the world based on a video game, and continue to talk on how they are the greatest cars that have ever graced the midnight streets, when they are not.

FAIL.

The AE86 is highly overrated. TV shows, anime, many things contribute to it. They make it look like an amazing car. Well, guess what? The amazing things are happening behind the wheel.

That's my view on it, and those are the only things I can give faith in that they are overrated. I have to say I'm amazed: you are basically calling him an idiot, and all you have to do is reply FAIL to most of his arguments?

 

[Joey D]

Mini meanwhile, yes BMW made them. But still pretty much under Mini and they're not included in the BMW cars line up.

I might be late to the party here but this needs to be cleared up, MINI is 100% owned by BMW. They are no longer affiliated with the British Motor Company other then they are still produced at the plant in Cowley. MINI's are about as much of BMW's as Scions are Toyota's.

 

[Prince.M5]

I might be late to the party here but this needs to be cleared up, MINI is 100% owned by BMW. They are no longer affiliated with the British Motor Company other then they are still produced at the plant in Cowley. MINI's are about as much of BMW's as Scions are Toyota's.

Yes I was wrong there. I re-read the facts and BMW made them as I also have a map of the BMW Plants and it says in there its in Oxford. I also knew that BMW owned them and they're fully now under BMW. Sorry everyone for the mistake.

 

[TVC]

It seems like a lot of people here like BMW.

It's not "The Ultimate Speed Machine" or "The Ultimate Power Machine". The raison d' etre for any BMW M-product is the driving experience and the feel of the car. Subjects which are highly subjective and which have nothing to do with lateral-G's, horsepower or acceleration.

If a Honda Civic LX had the slogan "Best driving car in the world" would that make it true? That is just what they say to sell cars.

And having driven said products in comparison to the competition, whatever their faults (and BMWs have their faults) and no matter how far they've strayed from their original ethos, BMW products still have better "feel" than their direct competitors.

You already said the way a car feels is an opinion. If they feel better that doesn't mean they are better.

While yes, there are faster cars, perhaps better sounding cars... but BMW is still the best at what it does.

In the beginning of your post you said "What metric do we use to define better?" Now you are saying BMW is the best but not saying how.



Also what is the big deal about BMW's history? It's something I have always wondered. BMW fans act like the company has so much history when it is only 50 years old, has 1 Le Mans win, and 1 ALMS win? I'm not trying to be mean but I don't even remember the last time I heard someone say something about Audi's history (100 years old), Mercedes (128 years old), Porsche (78 years old), Ford (106 years old), or just about any other company that is much older (basically every major car company).

 

[homeforsummer]

Also what is the big deal about BMW's history? It's something I have always wondered. BMW fans act like the company has so much history when it is only 50 years old, has 1 Le Mans win, and 1 ALMS win? I'm not trying to be mean but I don't even remember the last time I heard someone say something about Audi's history (100 years old), Mercedes (128 years old), Porsche (78 years old), Ford (106 years old), or just about any other company that is much older (basically every major car company).

You really don't remember the last time someone mentioned Porsche's history (err... 911s, anyone)? Or Audi (Quattros...)? Or Ford (who banged on and on about the GT40 when the GT was being produced)? Or Mercedes (who released a Stirling Moss SLR)? How about some of the companies you hinted at, but didn't mention. MINI? Yeah, not many days go by where MINI doesn't release some special edition that's very similar to one of the old Minis. Maybe Citroen? Well, in their 90th year I'd say there's been a fair bit about their heritage this year... You've not been paying a lot of attention, clearly.

Oh, and you've conveniently ignored the most significant contributor to BMW's history, which is touring car racing. Which we have to thank for the entire M Division, as well as the growth of Alpina, who had a lot of touring car success. So yeah, they've made rather a large contribution in motorsport.