The brake balance setting is broken

  • Thread starter shirakawaa
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shirakawaa

shirakawaa

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Has anybody else noticed this yet?

In free run mode and off-line races the brake balance setting doesn't work as intended. You might think it is having an effect, but it actually doesn't.

Proof: create an online room, even a private one. Adjust your car's brake balance setting there.
Setting a front brake power of 0 makes braking distances incredibly long, more than what the same setting did in GT5! On the other hand, setting it to 10 makes brakes quite prone to locking, if you turn your ABS off.

Now do the same in free run mode from the garage screen, offline. No appreciable change in braking behavior, no matter the setting. I would say no change at all, but I haven't tested this enough to be 100% sure. In free run mode the brake balance adjustment through the RA menu with the DFGT wheel is locked too. Could it be related to this problem?

I think this bug is worth a dedicated thread. Basically it makes impossible to tune offline your cars for online races, especially if you race without the ABS enabled. Also, many cars for some reason come with pointlessly sensitive brakes, and the fact that offline the brake balance adjustment is ineffective makes them a real pain to drive.
 
I noticed this myself as I run with no abs. I found if I didn't touch the brake bias at all with no abs I can still brake easily.
Quite a few bugs to work out I'd say as sometimes the sound is muted at the start of a race until you bump into another car
 
The tires seem to lock up at around 33% as you say with the racing brakes, but with the comfort tires or sport hard.
I've no problems braking hard on racing hards in the BMW GT3 for instance
 
No word for balance, but driving without ABS is now more realistic than it was on GT5.
I keep bias on front and rear same, but decreasing if needed. 3/3 to 5/5 on normal brake set, and 2/2 to 4/4 on racing brake set, installing racing brake set only if needed. Bias value as high at you can get tires locking if wanted, but not too easily.

Like a lot new brakes on GT6, done all races/licenses without ABS, golded all - some needed hard work but was really enjoyable to achieve those golds :)
 
So that's what the problem really is. I was having issues with this. It's actually good news that it's a 'simple' bug, as it shouldn't be hard to fix.
 
So we're saying the following "rule of thumb":
- 5/5 is now the modelled braking capability of the standard car.
- If the car locks up easily by default, lower the brake balance from 5/5
- If you put on crappy tyres, lower the brake balance from 5/5 (amount depends on just how crappy tyres).
- If you put on better tyres, raise the brake balance higher (but only if you stick with standard brakes).
- If you apply racing brakes, lower the brake balance as if on worse tyres or increase the tyres to compensate.
 
skazz
So we're saying the following "rule of thumb":
- 5/5 is now the modelled braking capability of the standard car.
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After some tests online, it seems it's the case. A 5/5 setting doesn't cause rear wheels to lock, as it certainly would if the brake balance was truly 50%-50%. However some cars appear to have an unbalanced default setting.
- If the car locks up easily by default, lower the brake balance from 5/5
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Only thing, as I've written in the OP, the brake balance setting doesn't appear to be working offline, at least in free run mode. Also, I never noticed significant changes in braking behavior in the career mode by adjusting it.
- If you put on crappy tyres, lower the brake balance from 5/5 (amount depends on just how crappy tyres).
- If you put on better tyres, raise the brake balance higher (but only if you stick with standard brakes).
- If you apply racing brakes, lower the brake balance as if on worse tyres or increase the tyres to compensate.
Click to expand...
Same as above. The brake balance can't correct these offline.

Anyway, I wonder why PD doesn't increase the range of the brake balance setting. When it works (that is, online), 0-10 is not precise enough for fine tuning. Also, it shouldn't take racing tires to lock rear wheels. If the handbrake is perfectly capable of that, why shouldn't standard brakes?
 
Been noticing this one while trying to set cars up. Free run is useless for trying to set the brakes as they always lock up but once I drive the car in a race it's fine. I'd prefer it if we had a overall brake pressure/pad setting and then just normal brake bias adjustment.
 
Fuzzi0n
Been noticing this one while trying to set cars up. Free run is useless for trying to set the brakes as they always lock up but once I drive the car in a race it's fine. I'd prefer it if we had a overall brake pressure/pad setting and then just normal brake bias adjustment.
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All problems with braking solved for everyone with one simple design change...brilliant!!:cheers:
 
try this:

Front weight ratio/ Front/ Rear

43 or lower 9 4
44 9 4
45 9 4
46 8 3
47 8 3
48 7 3
49 7 2
50 7 2
51 6 2
52 6 2
53 6 2
54 5 1
55 5 1
56 5 1
57 4 1
58 4 1
59 4 1
60 4 1
61 or higher 3 1
 
czerka
I've noticed that especially when using racing brakes, that your front tires lock up around 33% pressure regardless of what the brake bias is.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/racing-brakes-upgrade.292678/
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I play with DFGT, and I only need to depress the brake pedal 2 inches to get full braking. Ridiculous.

Supposed to be "The World's Best Driving Simulator", yet there are NO settings for wheels other than FFB strength - which in reality is merely 'Wheel Weight' and 'Centre Spring Strength', combined (and is also the same strength for EVERY car in the game !)
 
shirakawaa
After some tests online, it seems it's the case. A 5/5 setting doesn't cause rear wheels to lock, as it certainly would if the brake balance was truly 50%-50%. However some cars appear to have an unbalanced default setting.

Only thing, as I've written in the OP, the brake balance setting doesn't appear to be working offline, at least in free run mode. Also, I never noticed significant changes in braking behavior in the career mode by adjusting it.

Same as above. The brake balance can't correct these offline.

Anyway, I wonder why PD doesn't increase the range of the brake balance setting. When it works (that is, online), 0-10 is not precise enough for fine tuning. Also, it shouldn't take racing tires to lock rear wheels. If the handbrake is perfectly capable of that, why shouldn't standard brakes?
Click to expand...

I posted a few days ago about my brake bias findings here
Offline, the brake bias only seems to start working similar to GT5 if you add the brake kit, else it seems to nothing but adjust the max pressure you get from the pedal. At least that what its seems like to me.
 
After some more testing (:ouch:) it appears that the brake balance setting does indeed work offline, but only during races, which means you can never properly set it up, just guess and experiment during actual races.

I guess I never paid much attention to that, because as I used to do in GT5, Most of the time I simply decreased the rear braking power. Decreasing the rear braking power however, as in online mode, barely has any effect, at least with stock brakes. That's why I thought that the BB setting didn't work at all offline.

So, in the end, the brake balance setting is broken "only" in offline free run/practice mode.
GT6 is so full of bugs it's amazing it got released at all.
 
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shirakawaa
After some more testing (:ouch:) it appears that the brake balance setting does indeed work offline, but only during races, which means you can never properly set it up, just guess and experiment during actual races.

I guess I never paid much attention to that, because as I used to do in GT5, Most of the time I simply decreased the rear braking power. However decreasing the rear braking power however, as in online mode, barely has any effect, at least with stock brakes. That's why I thought that the BB setting didn't work at all offline.

So, in the end, the brake balance setting is broken "only" in offline free run/practice mode.
GT6 is so full of bugs it's amazing it got released at all.
Click to expand...

nah its the same as GT5 ... bundled together very quickly during development to gain a quick crimbo buck.

and the attitude.. ahh sod it lets release it .. we'll patch it now we have the tinterweb.
 
shirakawaa
After some more testing (:ouch:) it appears that the brake balance setting does indeed work offline, but only during races, which means you can never properly set it up, just guess and experiment during actual races.

I guess I never paid much attention to that, because as I used to do in GT5, Most of the time I simply decreased the rear braking power. However decreasing the rear braking power however, as in online mode, barely has any effect, at least with stock brakes. That's why I thought that the BB setting didn't work at all offline.

So, in the end, the brake balance setting is broken "only" in offline free run/practice mode.
GT6 is so full of bugs it's amazing it got released at all.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my first car was the Bluebird, and I couldn't wait to ditch it because of the understeer (I selected my default 5/2 BB setting before even driving it). Then I accidentally tried another car, possibly at a Goodwood event, without ABS, forgetting / not able to change the BB, and it drove fine (brilliantly, even). Came here, read a few opinions, went back to the Bluebird and "reset" it to 5/5 and, although it still understeers mid-corner, the thing actually turns in now!

Went through my other cars, resetting them also, and am much happier with the balance. Although, as you noted in another thread, the S2000 is borderline lethal on 5/5.

The bias on my namesake is also lethal, but that's what it's supposed to do! What's odd about it, though, is that it's barely able to lock the wheels with that setting - it needs to be set to something like 9/9 to get decent headroom on Sports Hards and the fine adjustability in the early part of the travel that I'm used to. Maybe Comforts would be better, which I intend to try anyway.

Gonna have to play around a bit more, since I'm still not used to the new physics, particularly the tyres.
We could do with the RA menu back for all controllers, certainly.
 
I've mentioned this bug in other threads already but I was encouraged to make a thread focusing on just this as most people aren't aware of this problem yet. This is aimed at folks who run without ABS, but it effects cars whether you turn the abs off or not.

So the core of the problem is that the brake balance/bias is only functional in career mode and arcade mode races. Other modes like free run and online the bias seems to revert back to default settings of 5/5 regardless of whether or not you set it to something else.

Now in most cars the brake balance is perfectly fine out of the box with default settings, so cars like this wont experience any excessive lock ups or have any issues.

The problem only shows up with cars that have very strong brakes at the default levels (such as the Pagani Huayra or Ferrari F40), these cars need their brake balances reduced (from the default value) just to avoid lock ups. So you are at the mercy of the default settings in those modes, if they're too strong then you'll experience nothing but lock ups.

I Have a great example for everyone to try out, using the Pagani Huayra on sport hard tires with a bias of 1/3 (my preference), go drive around in a career mode race. note the pressure it takes to lock up.
Then take the same car to free run or online, and note the pressure it takes the lock up.


I should note this was all experienced on comfort soft or sport hard tires, If you guys happen to use race tires its likely that the extra grip will mask this issue almost completely.

Also I haven't tested arcade mode out myself as I dont use it much, I'm just going off of what others have observed.
 
I have been experiencing this with all cars online. Even with abs on 10 it locks all 4 tires up. Only remedy i have found thus far is to put racing brakes on everything an then turn the balance down.
 
Huh that's odd Fastfox400, the Huayra has race brakes but doesn't respond to the setting changes. Maybe it has something to do with it coming stock with race brakes as opposed to buying them for it.

I'll have to test that out later tonight.
 
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grog
Huh that's odd Fastfox400, the Huayra has race brakes but doesn't respond to the setting changes. Maybe it has something to with it coming stock with race brakes as opposed to buying them for it.

I'll have to test that out later tonight.
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Correct as its coded with them to begin with. I had a issue doing some practice with a spec series. I turned brake balance to 0/0 ABS off did 1 lap and looked at setting. Brake balance had reverted back to 5/5 with abs off.
 
I think the "default" settings might be an issue too, in addition to changes (tuning) not working.

For example I find the F40 quite acceptable at 5/5 brake balance in career (abs0), yet free run it locks up right away(fronts only).

So either the default setting that can't be changed is at something like 10/0 or (some?) cars are equipped with racing brakes by default in free run/ online.
 
I don't. As its not realistic. Most cars now days have ABS and there are alot of race cars that have ABS also.
 
Jawehawk
Online and offline. Racing hard on LMP's and GT3 cars, and comfort soft/sport hard on just about everything else.
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Hmm perhaps the cars you use work well with default settings. Have you tried adjusting the brake balance?

If you try ( for example) one of these cars with bb 10/0 and then 0/10, you shouldn't see any effect. This is the main problem.
 
grannyshifter
Hmm perhaps the cars you use work well with default settings. Have you tried adjusting the brake balance?

If you try ( for example) one of these cars with bb 10/0 and then 0/10, you shouldn't see any effect. This is the main problem.
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Sorry, I should've elaborated. I always adjust my settings. For race cars, I usually set it to 4:2 or 4:3. Road cars are 2:1 or 3:2 depending on weight distribution and the speeds I need to brake from.
 

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