The Carmagedonn Thread: FCA and "Consolidation"

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YSSMAN, I do not trust the government to keep their word even the slightest. Until they finally retract their investment, I fully expect the worst, and don't doubt for a second that they'll try a complete takeover of the company. I hope for the best, of course, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
YSSMAN, I do not trust the government to keep their word even the slightest. Until they finally retract their investment, I fully expect the worst, and don't doubt for a second that they'll try a complete takeover of the company. I hope for the best, of course, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I actually got into a bit of an argument with my mom about this. She is all for GM being taken over by the government and building only hybrids. She wanted all the big and fuel inefficient vehicles gone.

I don't get how people can think like this. The people in Washington probably mostly have poly sci degrees, maybe a few economists and maybe a few businessmen. I doubt there are any engineers there who know anything about cars. Because they clearly don't have a clue when it comes to building cars, they really need to stay out of the product area of the company, unless they are willing to throw a ton of money at the company to allow them to accomplish these dreams, and to keep throwing money at them once these dreams kill the company.

When it comes to the way the company is run, however, I think Washington may be knowledgeable to the point where they can semi-successfully figure out how the place should be run. I'm not a businessman though, so I can't say for sure.
 
YSSMAN, I do not trust the government to keep their word even the slightest. Until they finally retract their investment, I fully expect the worst, and don't doubt for a second that they'll try a complete takeover of the company. I hope for the best, of course, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

President Obama talked about it earlier today (video), and he lays it out flatly. They (the Fed) are reluctant shareholders, who will have absolutely nothing to do with running the company - it will still be operated by a private board of controllers.

I understand the worries. I was too. It sounds like a temporary deal, and not only will GM be looking to dump them as soon as possible, they want to rid themselves of GM as well. At the very least, we can take solace in them not wanting to be together.
 
Like I said, I hope for the best and I hope the government is telling the truth, but what they've already gotten themselves into is far too much. They'd better have one hell of a plan to make it up to every single citizen of this country.
 
When it comes to the way the company is run, however, I think Washington may be knowledgeable to the point where they can semi-successfully figure out how the place should be run. I'm not a businessman though, so I can't say for sure.

I wouldn't bet on it. I'm expecting the government to push "green vehicles" which there won't enough demand for.
 
well, it seems that when it returns, it will really be Government Motors, American Leyland etc etc.. you get the picture. Product lineup probably consists of ugly Prius-wannabes, powered by bong-sucking tree-hugging hippies.

+1

A couple weeks ago I convinced my mom and dad to go look at a Kia Soul. They liked it. .

Good, tell them to buy it so we can keep Hyundai in business. I like the Soul, its funky and pretty cool.

What you're talking about there isn't anywhere close to the truth. While the Federal Government may be taking the largest share of GM, by no means will they be looking to control the product lineups of the company, Fritz Henderson spoke to that earlier this afternoon. GM will continue to build cars like the Corvette, Camaro, Cobalt SS (coupe), and CTS (among others) that are not only *gasp* sporty, but also *gasp* fun to drive because *GASP* there is still a market for it.

Sorry I don't trust the goverment as far as I can throw them. They most certainly will stick their hands in the cookie jar.

YSSMAN, I do not trust the government to keep their word even the slightest. Until they finally retract their investment, I fully expect the worst, and don't doubt for a second that they'll try a complete takeover of the company. I hope for the best, of course, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

+1 They will start by strongly "influencing" the R&D department. If you think GM's products of the mid/late 70's through the 90's were bad just WAIT until they get their hands on what kind of junk will be sent through the assembly line. Thank god the Italians bought Chrysler and Ford is doing ok. GM is a lost cause for at least a decade.

When it comes to the way the company is run, however, I think Washington may be knowledgeable to the point where they can semi-successfully figure out how the place should be run. I'm not a businessman though, so I can't say for sure.

They can't run the country, so why do people think they run a business? And I don't trust who they will influence into key leadership positions at GM. They will push their agendas through who they lobby to get into the positions of power.

President Obama talked about it earlier today (video), and he lays it out flatly. They (the Fed) are reluctant shareholders, who will have absolutely nothing to do with running the company - it will still be operated by a private board of controllers.

Like I believe anything coming from Obama's mouth. His administration has screwed up the stimulus package and will most certainly turn this into a socialist goverment. We don't need the goverment's hands in our businesses, banks and whatnot. I don't like being grossly negative but this country is on a downward spiral that will last years. I'm in such financial trouble that I may not even be able to maintain a healthy lifestyle of things like food, gas, electricity and other "luxuries". :rolleyes:
 
Well, SE Lower Michigan is now doomed.

I understand why GM had to go bankrupt, it's just putting the area where I live in shambles and really making things tough. I can't even imagine what the fallout from this is going to be locally. Most other places in the US should be OK, but we don't have any other industry in this area for people to work and now those people are out of a job.

Seriously GM fails at everything and so does the government. And our lovely governor can go to hell along with the rest of them. Way to run Michigan into the ground you bastards. Honestly between the UAW failing at making a good product, the CEO's being greedy, the engineers cost cutting, the nation government doing to little to late and wasting money, and the state government failing to attract new industry this was a catastrophe waiting to happen. I think I need to call a "BOOM HEADSHOT" for GM right now.

Sure, someone will say that GM will bounce back but I highly doubt they will bounce back in this area. I need to move in the worse possible way.
 
I do feel for Michigan, I really do. As someone who lives in a heavily manufacturing-influenced area, I know firsthand how these sort of things can affect a community. I fear that an entire township could be wiped off the map by CAT's Mossville engine plant closing, (though their tech center is still there.)

Chances are that, when GM does start to build new plants, they'll be in "Right to Work" states. That...would really suck for Michigan, unless their politicians have sudden second thoughts about their unions.
 
GM doesn't really build cars here anyway, that's what Canada and Mexico is for. But I suspect you are right. If they start building plants in the US, and lets be honest if they don't then the US government just sold the taxpayers out, than they probably will be in one of the "Right to Work" states.

I highly doubt Michigan will chance that any time soon too.
 
Well, SE Lower Michigan is now doomed.

I understand why GM had to go bankrupt, it's just putting the area where I live in shambles and really making things tough. I can't even imagine what the fallout from this is going to be locally. Most other places in the US should be OK, but we don't have any other industry in this area for people to work and now those people are out of a job.

Seriously GM fails at everything and so does the government. And our lovely governor can go to hell along with the rest of them. Way to run Michigan into the ground you bastards. Honestly between the UAW failing at making a good product, the CEO's being greedy, the engineers cost cutting, the nation government doing to little to late and wasting money, and the state government failing to attract new industry this was a catastrophe waiting to happen. I think I need to call a "BOOM HEADSHOT" for GM right now.

Sure, someone will say that GM will bounce back but I highly doubt they will bounce back in this area. I need to move in the worse possible way.

I do agree with much of what you said and I do understand why you are angry but you can't blame the government because it isn't their fault. Technically the government is not even suppose to help out any business no matter how important they are to the economy. I do think it is good they did help out even if it did kind of fail and they did as much as they could. No matter what the national government did GM would have ended up failing eventually at this rate.

All the other points you made I agree with. I don't know much about the state government in Michigan but I think Michigan depended to much on the automotive industry which is not good when they have been going down hill for the past 25 years and their sales have been cut in half since 2000.

In a way it is good that GM has filed bankruptcy. Many people will probably not agree with me but maybe some will. GM is now able to start over and will hopefully not need anymore money from the government in the long run. All the investors and people on wall street will stop worrying about GM going bankrupt and if GM will still be around in a week. General Motors was only straining the economy by still being around when they really should not have been.

Hopefully this marks a turning point for GM.
 
It's partially the national government's fault as they initially bailed out GM too late and failed at it in the process. They should have either properly bailed out GM like the did the banks or they should have not done anything at all. All the national government did was waste tax dollars.
 
It's partially the national government's fault as they initially bailed out GM too late and failed at it in the process. They should have either properly bailed out GM like the did the banks or they should have not done anything at all. All the national government did was waste tax dollars.

I do agree. The government either should have been successful at bailing them out or done nothing at all but at the same time it's mostly GM's fault. It would have been impossible or nearly impossible to actually be successful at saving GM from bankruptcy. They received money but all they did was change some of their executives when the real problem was no one was buying their cars outside of Detroit.

Originally the government did not want to give GM any money but GM was somehow able to persuade them into think they were going to change. Even then the government was still not very happy to give them anything.
 
And it still staggers me that the US government gave billions to the banks without flinching. I'll never understand this country.

And you are right, people don't buy GM's. Even here in Detroit people are buying less and less of them. There are a noticeable amount more Honda's and Toyota's here than I ever recall. Probably because since so many people lost their jobs in the auto industry they no longer get the discount.
 
I checked some of the companies 1st quarter profits and GM is being surpassed by Ford, VAG, Mercedes (DAI), Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Infact Nissan is doing better than Toyota so far.
 
The thing that constantly blows my mind is the sheer number of GM cars on the road here in Dayton. It's staggering, that seemingly 50% of the cars in this entire area are some sort of GM product. Besides the fact that there used to be a very large plant here in Moraine, building--what else?--SUVs, it's so funny it makes me laugh at all these GM cars floating around.

And they lost money on every single one of them. How in the hell can you possibly sell that many cars and LOSE money? HOW!?
 
GM doesn't really build cars here anyway, that's what Canada and Mexico is for.

In Michigan? No, they're not building all of them here anymore. But, they were building the G6 and Malibu at the Lake Orion plant. Lansing was screwing together the CTS, STS, SRX, Traverse, Outlook, Enclave and Acadia. Flint and Pontiac are still assembling the Silverado and Sierra as well. We'll be adding the Volt at Hamtrack, and there is a moderately good chance that the Viva could be built in Michigan - although it seems more likely that production will go to Ohio or Illinois.

Either way, GM still assembles nearly 70% of their vehicles inside the United States. That's pretty impressive compared to Ford and Chrysler, who assemble most of their vehicles in Canada and Mexico.

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...Anyway, as a fellow Michigan resident, I'm frustrated too. I'm mad as hell its taken this long, but I'm even more angry that it had to come to this. I've still got a fairly significant portion of my family relying on GM for their pensions and healthcare, and this isn't exactly settling for them. At the same time, I'm frustrated with the fact that the Fed has had to take a 60% share in the company.

Really, its a catch-22 situation of the worst kind. I think Chrysler could have died, and no one would have noticed. But GM? No, this is HUGE. Thing is, I'm not expecting a big change in the way we work here in West Michigan. We're losing a plant here in Grand Rapids, which is going to put a couple thousand people out of work (losing a lot of income for the city too), but I think we can sustain it with our massive investments in the medical and green technology fields.

I guess what I'm most upset about is that it is my company, and I'm not feeling a lot of remorse about it. Much less, that I should be buying a GM product. Their product line has some all-stars, but everything that needs to be here is still more than a year away... What good is that?

This should be a good turning point for GM, where they can shed what they've known has been bad for quite some time. GM fans have known for far too long that they've had too many models, too many brands, and too many dealers. This will change that, hopefully, for the better. Until then, we are at the mercy of FIAT, Ford, Honda, Toyota and whatever the "New GM" will decide to do.

* Side Note:

This is going to be crazy come time for the Governor's race. I can't see how the leadership of Granholm, particularly in a situation like this, will be good for state Democrats. But at the same time, I don't see how state Republicans are offering any better of a situation. Really, politically and economically speaking, our state is Effed. Its going to be years before we ever get around to any sort of recovery, and the 10+ year depression we've already had is driving the population out faster than they can find jobs.

...I'm already looking into moving west, into a more friendly social and political climate (not to mention the lack of snow), but I don't want to leave home. I love this state, and I love the companies that built it. But we're running out of options, and more importantly, time.

The line from TDK seems to ring true in this situation: "They say the night is darkest before the dawn, but the dawn is coming." Thing is, dawn can't come soon enough.

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More News From Today

According to Autoblog, the sale of HUMMER will be announced tomorrow. No word on what will happen to the brand, only that someone (or a group of buyers) have taken hold of the company. What started as a massive money-maker has become an oversize burden for the company. They could have saved it, and they didn't. Good riddance.



What did Ford Think of the GM Bankruptcy?

FORD STATEMENT ON GM BANKRUPTCY FILING
DEARBORN, Mich., June 1, 2009 – Today's announcement that GM is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy is another important development during this unprecedented period for the auto industry and the global economy.

The Ford team continues to monitor the industry environment and plan for all contingencies to ensure our transformation plan remains on track. At this time, we do not expect any major disruptions to our operations as a result of today's news.

We share President Obama's hope that GM's bankruptcy will be controlled and orderly, and we continue to believe it is important that our governmental leaders and the U.S. Automotive Task Force remain focused on the stability of the supply chain and on ensuring that a healthy U.S. auto industry emerges from this difficult economic period. We look forward to working with the Obama administration to ensure that the government's majority ownership of GM will not change the industry's competitive dynamics and that a level playing field will be maintained.

Ford remains absolutely committed to continuing to make progress on our transformation plan without accessing emergency taxpayer assistance from the U.S. government. We have been executing our plan for several years and now gaining market share and new customers with an unprecedented number of new high-quality, fuel-efficient vehicles, such the new Ford Fusion, F-150, Lincoln MKS and Lincoln MKZ. Coming soon are the highly acclaimed Ford Taurus, Lincoln MKT and Transit Connect.

No kidding (in reference to the bold). Ford is still unbelievably in the best shape of the three, despite their burdens that they will need to continue to carry in the future. My guess is that they could shake the UAW and their debtors more easily than the others with GM and Chrysler out of the picture, but who knows. The key is, they have the vehicles that people want to buy. What a plan for success!

And just because Ford is doing so well, they're due to increase production by 10% for Q3. A big bunch of winners they are.
 
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I love Ford's statement there. :D And I'm getting really close to buying some stock for the future. My list of wanted stock...
  • Ford ($6.13/share)
  • GM ($0.75)
  • Diamler USA ($39.76)
  • Nissan ($12.51)
  • Porsche ($44.91)
  • Honda ($29.77)
  • BMW ($26.92)

I can in no way afford Audi ($414.00) or Volkswagen ($227.45). My likely investment is going to be small in the begining. Probably 10 shares here 20 shares there--but every little bit counts! I'm likely to buy close to 50 shares of GM just because its cheap now and I didn't do it when Ford was down below $1.60 a share. I'm thinking about 25-35 years from now when I retire, surely by then these companies will be worth something to me.
 
Being a part time Michigander, I should probably chime in here as well. I don't have very much exposure to the manufacturing segment of the whole thing, but it still scares me to think about what might become of this. I'll probably be pretty affected at Hope because I'm sure a lot of kids will be leaving because their parents worked for one of the Big 3 and now they are out of a job.

The thought of seeing the manufacturing leaving Michigan (and the Upper Midwest in general) is a scary thought. That would really put the area in a bind. Naturally, the US government doesn't really care where the work is, as long as it's in the US, so the state of Michigan (and other states in the area) will be the only force attempting to keep those jobs in the area. So the governments in the area should be working with the UAW and the car makers to make sure that keeping the work in Michigan is still more attractive than the rest of the country.

As for the future? I donno. As of right now, I'm confident that the Big 3 will successfully rebound. They may not be as prominent as they were before this mess all started, but I'm sure they will be strong. But it will be pretty important for Michigan to keep a lot of that strength in the state. Michigan still is the automotive capital of the world, but I think the state is going to have to fight to stay there from here out.

As for Brad moving out West, I'd say come to Seattle, but the area here is looking a little shaky too. Boeing is in shambles and apparently the Starbucks fad is ending. We still have Microsoft and Amazon and the commercial core, but it's not all rosy here either. It seems that outsourcing really is coming back to bite the economy though.

When it comes to the government running the company, it is good to hear that they'll be wanting to stay out. For anyone who misunderstood my comment earlier, I was saying that if they were to intervene, the place I'd have the most confidence in them bumping in would be with the organization of the company and the way it does business. I fully agree that the government putting their noses into product is the worst thing that can happen for any company. But, (and this probably comes from my lack of knowledge of the way businesses are run) I wouldn't be too surprised to see that the government had any idea of how a company (any company) could be run.
 
JCE
I love Ford's statement there. :D And I'm getting really close to buying some stock for the future. My list of wanted stock...
  • Ford ($6.13/share)
  • GM ($0.75)
  • Diamler USA ($39.76)
  • Nissan ($12.51)
  • Porsche ($44.91)
  • Honda ($29.77)
  • BMW ($26.92)

I can in no way afford Audi ($414.00) or Volkswagen ($227.45). My likely investment is going to be small in the begining. Probably 10 shares here 20 shares there--but every little bit counts! I'm likely to buy close to 50 shares of GM just because its cheap now and I didn't do it when Ford was down below $1.60 a share. I'm thinking about 25-35 years from now when I retire, surely by then these companies will be worth something to me.

Personally, I think there are better things to do with your money. GM shareholders are going to be completely wiped out, btw. I think it's an asshole move on Ford's part for sucking up and being down with the whole idea of Government Motors. I would've preferred a different set of words.
 
As for Brad moving out West, I'd say come to Seattle, but the area here is looking a little shaky too. Boeing is in shambles and apparently the Starbucks fad is ending. We still have Microsoft and Amazon and the commercial core, but it's not all rosy here either. It seems that outsourcing really is coming back to bite the economy though.

Its getting bad all over. I've been California dreamin' for years, but its looking like that plan is going to pot as well. I'd love to head down to South Florida too, but they're having their own problems as well.

The good news is that I can make an extended stay in school, and just do a graduate program at GVSU if need be. Yeah, I'll be broke as a joke, but if there aren't a whole lot of jobs - there just aren't.

There was a time when I had high hopes of moving to Detroit and working in "the industry" as well. I'd say thats a wash now, unless they get desperate for fresh ideas from the kids. As a state, we've been shoving ourselves through the doors of GM, Ford and Chrysler for generations, and I think that is going to change dramatically. Two generations of my family worked for GM, and its the same story for Ford. Its sad to see that trend coming to an end, but... It happens.

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HUMMER Is Gone, Apparently

According to the Autoblog article, HUMMER has been sold off to a bidder, but there is no mention of who that winner is. In the article, it is mentioned that current HUMMER development schedules will continue (the H4 and H3T two-door), as well as 3,000 American jobs being saved at the current HUMMER production facilities. There is no word on what kind of involvement GM will be having with the brand, but I'm willing to bet they maintain a small share in the company.

====================================================

Oh, and from the thread title, as a general question:

"Where do we go from here?"
 
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Maybe...just maybe...you could work in Peoria. the good news from CAT is that they need engineers badly.
 
JCE
I love Ford's statement there. :D And I'm getting really close to buying some stock for the future. My list of wanted stock...
  • Ford ($6.13/share)
  • GM ($0.75)
  • Diamler USA ($39.76)
  • Nissan ($12.51)
  • Porsche ($44.91)
  • Honda ($29.77)
  • BMW ($26.92)

I can in no way afford Audi ($414.00) or Volkswagen ($227.45). My likely investment is going to be small in the begining. Probably 10 shares here 20 shares there--but every little bit counts! I'm likely to buy close to 50 shares of GM just because its cheap now and I didn't do it when Ford was down below $1.60 a share. I'm thinking about 25-35 years from now when I retire, surely by then these companies will be worth something to me.

Why no diversification?
 
While the Federal Government may be taking the largest share of GM, by no means will they be looking to control the product lineups of the company, Fritz Henderson spoke to that earlier this afternoon.
You know, that same government, upon taking office, said that they had no interest in buying up American companies. I believe that one Barack Obama specifically said that he had "no interest or intention of running GM." Then a month later he forced the CEO of GM out of the company. Then he helped push through higher CAFE standards a month after that. So, yeah.
 
the good news from CAT is that they need engineers badly.

Yes they do !!!!!
2010 no more class 8 truck engines,because they can't meet the emmisions standards ( C15 twin turbo.....flop ),Cummmins ISX is kicking their tail 2 ways for Sunday as far as mileage and emmisions and services go.

Latest I heard ( from a Cat representative ) is that Cat and International are teaming up to build a truck.Cat is to build the base engine,International will refine if to make it emissions compliant,and International will build the truck as well.

Apologize for veering off topic.
 
Joey & some others said something about the government bailing out the GM too late. Am I wrong or the GM never received the bailout money? My understanding was that the government wasn't throwing money at GM to revive the company, but to keep them on a life support. Just until they can figure out the GM's future.

And on their bankruptcy not being a great of choice, what other choice did they have? Without the government money, my understanding was that they'd have sunk months ago.
 
Label the "loan" money however you like but I knew from the beginning GM and Chrysler weren't going to pay it back. It's a bailout when it's boiled down to it's simplest form in my eyes at least.
 
Label the "loan" money however you like but I knew from the beginning GM and Chrysler weren't going to pay it back. It's a bailout when it's boiled down to it's simplest form in my eyes at least.
Well, I'm just saying that I didn't think the money was ever intended to help GM out of the mess. It's full intention was to buy time until the people in charge(both in the government & GM) could figure out what to do with GM.

On the loan, bailout, whatever you wanna call it, they better pay it back. I don't know if they are obligated to, but they should be.
 
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