The contradictory nature of the X1/X2010

[kanjifreak]

Hello:

PD has always been obsessed with reality. They created the real driving simulator that emulates the behavior of real life cars, with real detail, with real tuning, real tracks, real events...

Isn't it contradictory from them to come up with an X1 pantomime?

I just unlocked the car a few minutes ago from the Vettel challenge. Honestly, it is not fun to use that car, it is absurdly fast and unreal.

With all due respect to the Japanese, they have always been absurdly fantasying about futuristic elements. They have them in their fashion, their vehicles, their movies, their novels about them conquering the world technologically, their success with emulating human feelings on androids, you name it...

I guess PD is too culturally influenced, even to the point of going against their entire concept in the game.

One thing is to be biased to your culture or your nationality (which is natural, everyone does it) by calling the GT-R something that Ferrari should be wary about (just to name one example), and another thing is to go against your own creation or concept therein.

I'm ambivalently annoyed...

The franchise is superb, but there is always something really absurd to take away quasi-pristine quality from it.

 

[Senojelyk]

So if you don't like it.. don't race with it.

I can't wait to drive the thing, (lvl 28 a-spec). I don't care if its real or not, the other 1030 cars are and after reaching the "end" of the game I can't wait to play with something that I literally never could in real life.

 

[ghostrider135]

kanjifreak is mearly making a point and its a point I agree with, Most of the concepts in the game could have gone into production had the CEO of whichever car company had the testicular fortitude to sign the dotted line, The X2010 will never see production so in my opinion it has no point to be in a REAL driving simulator its not the Jetsons

 

[markydjay]

It was developed by top ranking members of Red Bull f1's design and engineering teams. It is designed to be the highest performing racecar possible with todays technology. They haven't made one in the real world because the cost would be enormous and there's not a lot they could do with it (give it to the stig?) being that it breaks all the rules of f1 and other motorsports. But it is at least suppose to be realistic in terms of what it is capable of. It's not like they just dreamed up a fantasy rocket car that runs on magic. That was the whole point of the project.

 

[G35_Skyline]

your seemingly great linguistic skills can't hide the fact that you're a dumbo when it comes to understanding this.

Let me answer your issues you raised with 2 quick facts...


1))) RedBull is a major player in Motorsports so they are obviously very interested in future concepts, and clearly within 10-15 years from now we will have a race car probably a race SERIES, with cars like the X1. The RedBull team doesnt just sponsor race teams, they are fully involved with their own engineering and race teams doing crazy and wonderful things in the world of motorsport.

I don't know about you but I'm very happy to have a glimpse into the future, not just a glimpse but a TEST DRIVE, you would have to be an idiot not to enjoy that, or a person not interested in motor sports at all which doesn't make sense because you bought the game.



2))) Quick and sweet here, there is no Japanese bias with the GTR friend, that is all 100% truth.... you don't believe me, pick up any automotive magazine and read any article on the GTR. The GTR is a Super Car Eater, it eats them for breakfast, brunch, lunch dinner, and the 🤬 late night snack! last time I checked it's the 4th fastest production car sitting at 7:24.2 - October 2010 (Wet Conditions) so yea it did this in WET CONDITIONS, beat the Ferrari Enzo which got a 7:25.3 in dry weather...

the only 2 "production cars" and I use the term production cars very VERY 🤬 loosely here, to beat the GTR are these 2 in the pics below... like take a look at what kind of car it takes to beat a GTR, these shouldnt even be called production cars, they're 🤬 race cars crash tested to make them street legal

 

[Luminis]

But it is at least suppose to be realistic in terms of what it is capable of. It's not like they just dreamed up a fantasy rocket car that runs on magic. That was the whole point of the project.

That's what they claim, at least. It's awfully easy to say something is possible in real life when nobody could prove them right or wrong.

That said, I don't mind the X2010. I like it, in fact. Well, somewhat. I like it more than all of those dreamed up cars like the FGT or the 'LM Race Cars', because it does serve a purpose that none of the real cars could. And that purpose is being the be all, end all, most powerful, best performing car in the game, period.

1))) RedBull is a major player in Motorsports so they are obviously very interested in future concepts, and clearly within 10-15 years from now we will have a race car probably a race SERIES, with cars like the X1. The RedBull team doesnt just sponsor race teams, they are fully involved with their own engineering and race teams doing crazy and wonderful things in the world of motorsport.

I don't know about you but I'm very happy to have a glimpse into the future, not just a glimpse but a TEST DRIVE, you would have to be an idiot not to enjoy that, or a person not interested in motor sports at all which doesn't make sense because you bought the game.

Not to rain on your parade, but the X2010 isn't the future of racing.
Just look at F1. It's not getting faster, but slower. Why? Well, because of security issues. And the X2010 isn't going to work well with that kind of mindset. In 10 to 15 years, racing will probably be more about 'being green' than being faster than it is now. That, and the fact that I doubt you'll ever see a race in cars that'll require the driver to wear a G-suit to even survive the Gs in that thing.

Last but not least: Radical >>> all. Period. Shame it's not in the game.

 

[MidianGTX]

If you've never wondered how a concept would turn out were the manufactured, you don't like cars. This is a dream come true.

 

[G35_Skyline]

Not to rain on your parade, but the X2010 isn't the future of racing.
Just look at F1. It's not getting faster, but slower. Why? Well, because of security issues. And the X2010 isn't going to work well with that kind of mindset. In 10 to 15 years, racing will probably be more about 'being green' than being faster than it is now. That, and the fact that I doubt you'll ever see a race in cars that'll require the driver to wear a G-suit to even survive the Gs in that thing.

Last but not least: Radical >>> all. Period. Shame it's not in the game.

good point, but I disagree, I for one do not think for one second that the leaders in motor sports all over the world will bow to a bunch of hippies wanting "green" race cars. F1 is in decline right now yes, and it's not security issues like you state, it's to bring cost down mostly and apparently to make it an even playing field, also a few other factors, but just wait till Bernie Eckelstone is gone and someone who knows and understands motorsports and it's fans takes over F1, we will see a new era.

And if they find a way to make a car handle like an X1, I guarantee you they will find a way for a man to control it and drive it. This type of mindset is embedded in us as humans, we're always looking to take things to the next level and then some. Evidence of that is in every single piece of technology we've ever created, because we came back after we created it and made something better. This cycle will always continue and never end

 

[Jedi2016]

I would counter the argument by simply saying that, although the X1 does not actually exist, it could exist. If someone actually built it to those specifications, it would very likely perform like GT's physics engine says it would.

I think it's just a matter of time, personally. Some playboy billionaire is going to decide to actually have one built, and we'll see what it can do then.

 

[kanjifreak]

your seemingly great linguistic skills can't hide the fact that you're a dumbo when it comes to understanding this.

Let me answer your issues you raised with 2 quick facts...

Lol, English is not my first language... I love it when native English speakers tell me something about my linguistic skill.

On another concern, I appreciate your reply, but you are missing the point here. It's not about loving cars or the future of motor sports, it's about how PD slipped from their principles and concept in their game just for cultural reasons.

If you enjoy driving the car or not, or if you think this is a glimpse into the future, well, it's secondary.

 

[analog]

good point, but I disagree, I for one do not think for one second that the leaders in motor sports all over the world will bow to a bunch of hippies wanting "green" race cars.

Except it's not just hippies demanding it anymore, car manufacturers are probably also pushing for it for marketing reasons and public opinion (right or wrong) may also put pressure on them.
It isn't necessarily only a bad thing though if implemented smartly, not like that weight-adding KERS system but it could create new interesting technology to use in future road cars in the process.
Although sadly the most interesting and exciting period of motorsport may already be from the past, not the future.

 

[daan]

aggresive, incorrect diatribe

OK, now lets calm down and stop with the badly censored swear words. If you must swear, and we'd rather you didn't, let the swear filter asterisk out the word, or use the 🤬 smiley. Don't miss-spell it so it appears is full.

Any more of that and it'll be an official warning.

Also, the GTR is the 4th fastest Nordschleife lap?

Doonkervoort, Porsche & Dodge would like a word (as well as the ones you acknowledged, Radical and Gumpert).

1.	Radical SR8LM  	6:48.00 	182 	0  	455 / 650  	Michael Vergers
2. 	Radical SR8 	6:55.00 	179 	'05 	363 / 650 	Michael Vergers
3. 	Gumpert Apollo Speed 	7:11.57 	172 	'09 	700 / 1200 	Florian Gruber
4. 	Donkervoort D8 RS 	7:14.89 	171 	'05 	350 / 600 	Michael Duechting
5. 	Porsche 997 GT2 RS 	7:18.00 	169 	'10 	620 / 1370 	Timo Kluck
6. 	Radical SR3 Turbo 	7:19.00 	169 	'03 	320 / 500 	Phil Bennett
7. 	Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 	7:22.10 	168 	'08 	600 / 1536 	Motor Trend
8. 	Gumpert Apollo Sport 	7:24.00 	167 	'07 	700 / 1200 	sportauto
9. 	Nissan GT-R 	7:24.22 	167 	'11 	530 / 1736 	Nissan

 

[Furinkazen]

GT is about all cars - the past present and future. I reckon it makes sense.

 

[ajbownes]

Doonkervoort, Porsche & Dodge would like a word (as well as the ones you acknowledged, Radical and Gumpert).

1.	Radical SR8LM  	6:48.00 	182 	0  	455 / 650  	Michael Vergers
2. 	Radical SR8 	6:55.00 	179 	'05 	363 / 650 	Michael Vergers
3. 	Gumpert Apollo Speed 	7:11.57 	172 	'09 	700 / 1200 	Florian Gruber
4. 	Donkervoort D8 RS 	7:14.89 	171 	'05 	350 / 600 	Michael Duechting
5. 	Porsche 997 GT2 RS 	7:18.00 	169 	'10 	620 / 1370 	Timo Kluck
6. 	Radical SR3 Turbo 	7:19.00 	169 	'03 	320 / 500 	Phil Bennett
7. 	Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 	7:22.10 	168 	'08 	600 / 1536 	Motor Trend
8. 	Gumpert Apollo Sport 	7:24.00 	167 	'07 	700 / 1200 	sportauto
9. 	Nissan GT-R 	7:24.22 	167 	'11 	530 / 1736 	Nissan

Wow, I did not realise the new Gumpert Apollo was that fast. I knew it was quick, just not THAT quick

 

[markydjay]

That's what they claim, at least. It's awfully easy to say something is possible in real life when nobody could prove them right or wrong.

Don't you think Adrian Newey has better things to do with his time than dream up false claims about his designs? I doubt very much he got to his current position (Head engineer at current f1 Constructors Champions Red Bull Racing) by talking up work without being able to back it up with performance out on the track.

 

[Luminis]

but just wait till Bernie Eckelstone is gone and someone who knows and understands motorsports and it's fans takes over F1, we will see a new era.

I doubt it. I seriously doubt it. It's not like it's happening in Formula 1 only. Take a look at LMP cars. Granted, Audi did manage to break the record in terms of traveled distance this year, but still. If the pace developed fast enough for a car as the X2010 being feasible in 10 to 15 years, where would the LMP cars be today, considering what was done thirty years ago?

And if they find a way to make a car handle like an X1, I guarantee you they will find a way for a man to control it and drive it. This type of mindset is embedded in us as humans, we're always looking to take things to the next level and then some. Evidence of that is in every single piece of technology we've ever created, because we came back after we created it and made something better. This cycle will always continue and never end

In every peace of technic? Seriously, look at the past. The Porsche 917/30, for example, which dominanted TransAm. It was dangerously fast and is, nowadays, considered to be the car that killed of the TransAm of that time, due to the danger. Instead of finding a way of controlling that beast properly, it was basically banned.
Group B rallies would be another example. Where's the next level to that?

All of those examples are not even as bad as the X2010. In both cases, it was the danger of losing control and being harmed in a crash. With the X2010, it'll be harming your health (or even kill you) while it's under control.
This isn't 'necessary' technology we're talking about, it's basically entertainment.

Don't you think Adrian Newey has better things to do with his time than dream up false claims about his designs? I doubt very much he got to his current position (Head engineer at current f1 Constructors Champions Red Bull Racing) by talking up work without being able to back it up with performance out on the track.

Do you really think he works on something like the X2010 with the same precision and dedication as he works on his real F1 designs? Especially when it can't be backed up with performance on the track, as it was never intended to exist outside of Gran Turismo?

 

[markydjay]

Do you really think he works on something like the X2010 with the same precision and dedication as he works on his real F1 designs? Especially when when it can't be backed up with performance on the track, as it was never intended to exist outside of Gran Turismo?

Do you think Picasso's napkin doodles aren't worth much these days?

Fact is an expert doesn't just forget everything they know because they are working on a side project, no matter how small

 

[Luminis]

Do you think Picasso's napkin doodles aren't worth much these days?

Do you think that Picasso's professionalism or the attitude that he created those with had any influence on their prices today?

Fact is an expert doesn't just forget everything they know because they are working on a side project, no matter how small

Fact is, it's just human nature to kick back at times. And this doesn't have anything to do with forgetting what he knows, but with the dedication he went to work with. And how much of the work PD did themselves.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Hello:

PD has always been obsessed with reality....isn't it contradictory from them to come up with an X1 pantomime?

...there is always something really absurd to take away quasi-pristine quality from it.

I presume you've felt the same in previous GTs when they've included concept cars that have been created according to a particular "what-if" design question.

The X2010 isn't really any different to that, is it? If you don't like it then don't use it. I don't like the Mazda 787... I hate the colours, hate the myopic headlights, hate the car. Maybe you like it, and that's fine too... it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

You go on to suggest that the quality of GT5 is only quasi-pristine, I have to say that I don't understand that in the context of your 'pure' GT5 argument.

 

[MidianGTX]

Fact is, neither of you guys know how much effort Newey put into the project, so talking about it is pointless. The hardest real evidence we have is several written reports that the car's performance is technically possible.

Whether or not it's true is another matter, but that's what we've got to go on and considering all concepts are built with a certain degree of ideals in mind, I think we might as well just go with it, but keep a pinch of salt handy.

 

[xSNAKEx]

I would counter the argument by simply saying that, although the X1 does not actually exist, it could exist. If someone actually built it to those specifications, it would very likely perform like GT's physics engine says it would.

I think it's just a matter of time, personally. Some playboy billionaire is going to decide to actually have one built, and we'll see what it can do then.

No way. You build it to exact specs and it will turn out nothing like in gt5. While under perfect test conditiions, I could see something in real life performing to similar specifications as in gt5, the real world is not that simple or forgiving, and if you threw it into a regular race course it would suddenly break tracktion, fly of the track at and kill anyone in it.

Even if we were to assume it could handle like it does in gt5 it would break the drivers neck or detach his retinas.

Bottom line, The x1 being stuck in fanatsy land is not a matter of just money.

 

[MidianGTX]

It wouldn't be identical since the one in GT5 doesn't seem to lose grip when breaking contact with the ground, while a real one would. Assuming you kept it on the track though, it'd still have unbelievable grip and obliterate anything that dared challenge it.

 

[Luminis]

It wouldn't be identical since the one in GT5 doesn't seem to lose grip when breaking contact with the ground, while a real one would. Assuming you kept it on the track though, it'd still have unbelievable grip and obliterate anything that dared challenge it.

See, it is a moot point. The driver would probably not last long enough to finish a race. A Golf would probably, therefore, finish a two-lap race around the 'Ring before the X2010.

Furthermore, what's with the tyres? The Veyron SS's last for 37miles while going at 400+ mk/h. What do you think would the X2010 need in terms of tyres while going WAY past what the Veyron is capable of? And we're not talking about racing down Mulsanne at that speed, like the Le Mans cars of old did, but cornering that fast! The bend on the back straight of Suzuka, for example. 420km/h through there...

 

[Lasdul]

good point, but I disagree, I for one do not think for one second that the leaders in motor sports all over the world will bow to a bunch of hippies wanting "green" race cars. F1 is in decline right now yes, and it's not security issues like you state, it's to bring cost down mostly and apparently to make it an even playing field, also a few other factors, but just wait till Bernie Eckelstone is gone and someone who knows and understands motorsports and it's fans takes over F1, we will see a new era.

And if they find a way to make a car handle like an X1, I guarantee you they will find a way for a man to control it and drive it. This type of mindset is embedded in us as humans, we're always looking to take things to the next level and then some. Evidence of that is in every single piece of technology we've ever created, because we came back after we created it and made something better. This cycle will always continue and never end

I'm responding to an old post here, but that is the most blatantly right wing ignorant post I've seen on here. Obviously I'm a racing fan, and I'm not even left wing (I'm pretty much center) so I want our sport preserved. But you don't have to be a "hippie" to care about emissions. It's important stuff, and we can't stick to our old ways for too much longer. Seriously, don't be an idiot. Every day alt. energy becomes better, with hopeful racing alternatives like Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

 

[kanjifreak]

I presume you've felt the same in previous GTs when they've included concept cars that have been created according to a particular "what-if" design question.

The X2010 isn't really any different to that, is it? If you don't like it then don't use it. I don't like the Mazda 787... I hate the colours, hate the myopic headlights, hate the car. Maybe you like it, and that's fine too... it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

You go on to suggest that the quality of GT5 is only quasi-pristine, I have to say that I don't understand that in the context of your 'pure' GT5 argument.

I didn't feel the same about most concept cars, those did actually exist in a physical way, not just paper and algorithms on a video game.

I hate the Mazda 787B too, I never said that any real car should be fine with me. Have you heard the machine when it goes at 340 km/h or more?

Well, the purest GT game will only have real cars physically existent at least once, based on the "reality" obsession of their makers. The X1 is just asinine for that matter. Thus, GT5 turns quasi-pristine according to its own maker's philosophy.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I didn't feel the same about most concept cars, those did actually exist in a physical way, not just paper and algorithms on a video game.

Not so. The Nike ONE was a concept prototype of exactly the same ilk - it only existed as a PD virtual collaboration with Nike.

Personally I think that using GTx as a platform for such concept creations is a stroke of brilliance. My comments about the Mazda 787 were simply intended to illustrate that you have the same choice (use or don't use) with the X2010 as you have with every other car in the game.

The X1 is just asinine...GT5 turns quasi-pristine according to its own maker's philosophy.

Fair enough

 

[Ingram]

just wait till Bernie Eckelstone is gone and someone who knows and understands motorsports and it's fans takes over F1, we will see a new era

Whatever you want to accuse Bernie of, not knowing or understanding motorsport really isn't something.

Anyhoo, I really like the idea of the X2010, and I'm looking forward to having a go in it. If there wasn't a hint of plausibility to the concept, then it wouldn't have been included in the game. While some of you point out potential flaws that would make the car impossible in reality, it is likely that there are top engineers that could find (or already know of) solutions.

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

Ummm, do u realize the power of fan based cars?
like the Chapparel 2j?

If not, look it up because it's not realistic. you don't see them because they're banned from races in real life.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It just wait till Bernie Eckelstone is gone and someone who knows and understands motorsports and it's fans takes over F1, we will see a new era

That's just silly... Bernie's worked at nearly every level of the sport. He's been an F1 driver (just), a team manager, a team principal and a team owner.

People might not agree with his methods but he nows how business works and he definitely knows how motorsport works.

It's arguable that there wouldn't be F1 without Bernie Ecclestone 's vision and stern guidance through the difficult years.

 

[Luminis]

Ummm, do u realize the power of fan based cars?
like the Chapparel 2j?

If not, look it up because it's not realistic. you don't see them because they're banned from races in real life.

The grip (and thus, the fan) isn't the point.

The X2010's weaknesses are:
1) The driver not being able to withstand the Gs for very long.
2) The tyres not coping with that level of punishment for very long.

And additionally, because thr X2010 was brought up as the future of racing:
3) The general environment of racing (safety, level playing field, environmentalism, pick your poison) keeping it from ever becoming the 'future of racing'.

It's arguable that there wouldn't be F1 without Bernie Ecclestone 's vision and stern guidance through the difficult years.

QFT. There's a reason F1 is as popular as it is nowadays.