The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!

[balang_479]

not sure if this has been posted - anyone else noticed how the bumpers always stay attached at the same side? no matter where the impact was.

Ye... im hoping its just an early model...

 

[DaddyVDUB]

I for one hope there is more to "damage" than that bumper car demo showed. Not effecting the car very much at all, except that poor door and bumper that fall off all the time.

 

[Slurm]

yeah, really the damage is just bits falling off the car, scripted vaguely according to where it hits things.

The Subaru's doors are apparently held shut with some masking tape. It'll do for me, but I can understand why some are not impressed.

 

[aspect8]

Play FM2. Wreck cars. You'll notice that some cars take more damage than others. This is because the manufacturers won't let T10 damage their cars much at all. One of the worst offender in this regard is Ferrari.

The internet disagrees.

I believe in Forza 2 some cars can have parts fall completely off, others can't. Ferrari may be a manufacturer that doesn't allow parts to come off, but the damage is still pretty clear. They do however take mechanical damage the same as every other car.

Unfortunately, all game developers have to work within the constraints of time, money and licensing contracts. Sitting here as backseat developers we have no idea what those constraints are, so cut them a bit of slack. Unless you've done any 3d modelling and game programming, you can't possibly know how hard it is to do any kind of damage in-game, let alone material deformation in real time.

Only recently I was watching the Forza 3 vids and lamenting that they only showed us cosmetic damage just as many people here are lamenting that Polyphony didn't show any conclusive mechanical damage. But these are public conventions, you'll likely have to wait for private press previews to get details about the damage model, until then I wouldn't worry.

 

[Slurm]

The internet disagrees.

I believe in Forza 2 some cars can have parts fall completely off, others can't. Ferrari may be a manufacturer that doesn't allow parts to come off, but the damage is still pretty clear. They do however take mechanical damage the same as every other car.

Unfortunately, all game developers have to work within the constraints of time, money and licensing contracts. Sitting here as backseat developers we have no idea what those constraints are, so cut them a bit of slack. Unless you've done any 3d modelling and game programming, you can't possibly know how hard it is to do any kind of damage in-game, let alone material deformation in real time.

Only recently I was watching the Forza 3 vids and lamenting that they only showed us cosmetic damage just as many people here are lamenting that Polyphony didn't show any conclusive mechanical damage. But these are public conventions, you'll likely have to wait for private press previews to get details about the damage model, until then I wouldn't worry.

Very nice post. Nice to see someone cross-referencing these games without being a dick about it. Shows hope that maybe one day all GT5's cars will be damageable. And I agree, it looks good on Forza, but doing the same thing on cars of this detail is a huge task. We might not have seen the full extent of damage, and even if we have, it's the start of a welcome feature that can improve in the future.

 

[valleymd]

Look at this video. I have seen it many times before, but if you look closely at the 30 second mark you will see what appears to be a piece of the car flying off, across the track (from the right to the left), I think it is the passenger door.

http://www.uberreview.com/2009/08/fridge-too-small-get-a-cambusa.htm

 

[Ariel Atom Bomb]

I'm really hoping damage is the final copy of the game will be WAY better. Right now i'm considering it "Why'd-they-bother?" damage.

 

[Tenacious D]

The internet disagrees.

Hands on experience trumps the internets.

By the way, I'm not sure why you posted that video. I never said that Forza didn't show visual scarring. And it didn't even show the car wrecking. I suggest you read my post and then do some torture testing like I did. Then you'll see for yourself.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I think the least they could do now is not allow damageable cars to race with indestructible ones.

 

[djcorrosive]

Reasons why i believe there is ENGINE damage as well!

In one of the videos after massive knocking to the vehicle u can see that the WRX, Rally, cant get past 4th gear. stuck on 154mph, or 154kmph (which ever they were using)

 

[Raitziger]

cant get past 4th gear. stuck on 154mph, or 154kmph (which ever they were using)

LOL .I think it was 154 km/h as wrc would have to be runing on quite hard acid that it would go 154 mph

 

[killanite]

Reasons why i believe there is ENGINE damage as well!

In one of the videos after massive knocking to the vehicle u can see that the WRX, Rally, cant get past 4th gear. stuck on 154mph, or 154kmph (which ever they were using)

They were using kph, and yes engine damage (or power limitations) are present when the car is damaged

 

[djcorrosive]

Yeah i thought so hahaha

Well i guess its enough proof that engine damage is available!

one of my big gripes is the AI is completely rubbish! so unrealistic

 

[cbarcus]

Damage modelling in a video game is pretty non-trivial if the aim is realism. I'm curious what racing games/simulations are seen as having the best damage modelling, strictly in terms of realism.

Does anyone here think that Gran Turismo should favor the kind of realism in the iRacing simulation?

Here's a thread that mentions iRacing's damage modelling:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112173

 

[aspect8]

Hands on experience trumps the internets.

I had a suspicion why your testing showed the results it did. However, I didn't want to go off on a rant without evidence, so I went home and I did some torture testing. I crashed each of the following cars into the entrance to pit lane on Nissan Speedway at 200km/h. Then I recorded the engine, gearbox and steering damage. See if you can spot the trend:

Make Model Drivetrain Engine dmg Gearbox dmg Steering dmg

Honda NSX MR 0% 100% 100%
Ford GT MR 0% 100% 100%
Ferrari 430 MR 0% 100% 100%

Honda Prelude FF 100% 100% 100%
Ford MustangR FR 88% 100% 100%
Ferrari 599 FR 100 75% 100%

There you have it, Ferrari's are not any more "invulnerable" to FRONTAL impacts than any other MID ENGINED car. Whether the cars should be able to drive away at all after an impact at that speed is another question, but none of them will be going anywhere fast with crippling steering and gearbox damage anyway. Point is, the damage is pretty consistent from make to make.

As for GT damage, I'm pretty sure that:
a) we haven't seen everything, and
b) Polyphony will come up with some sort of solution for racing premium cars against the invulnerable ones. How elegant and inclusive that solution is remains to be seen. I'd be fine with just turning off mechanical damage if a car in the race doesn't support it, or complete segregation.

 

[unit-one]

I think that non premium cars will have only mechanical damage and not visual.

 

[diggydogg]

According to Gamezine.co.uk, who interviewed Kazunori Yamauchi about GT5.
The damage modelling in the Gamescom Demo is still unfinished and marks only the first steps of what the want to achieve for damage.

I think thats some good news.

Link: Gamezine


Edit: Thanks for moving and closing the other thread.

 

[hardvibes]

sounds good...
I knew it

 

[RACECAR]

Thats great to know. This futher proves that we aren't looking at a finished product.

 

[Tekk]

So that confirms it... It's unfinished.



It had to be. Yamauchi is still probing us to see how far we want damage to go...

For me it would be all the way, please!

 

[Masi_23]

"The damage already has repercussions on the steering but beware, it should not affect all vehicles in the game." - Kaz

That's just weird.

 

[GTP_HairyCurry]

So that confirms it... It's unfinished.

Which basically means that the game is going to be released unfinished.
This looks really, really bad.
I guess the Forza boyz will be laughing.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

According to Gamezine.co.uk, who interviewed Kazunori Yamauchi about GT5.
The damage modelling in the Gamescom Demo is still unfinished and marks only the first steps of what the want to achieve for damage.

I think thats some good news.

Link: Gamezine


Edit: Thanks for moving and closing the other thread.

If this is only the "first steps" then the game has a long way to go and there is no way it will be out this year. I dont expect it until 2010 but those that are expecting it this year will be very disappointed. I just dont see it getting released in 2009 unless they want to release it unfinished like they did with GT4. I am sure some of you remember how they dropped the online at the very end just to finally get the game out.

 

[GTP_HairyCurry]

If this is only the "first steps" then the game has a long way to go and there is no way it will be out this year. I dont expect it until 2010 but those that are expecting it this year will be very disappointed. I just dont see it getting released in 2009 unless they want to release it unfinished like they did with GT4. I am sure some of you remember how they dropped the online at the very end just to finally get the game out.

They can always release full damage as DLC.

 

[Famine]

The important part of the story isn't what Kaz is quoted as saying. Is the bit immediately before it...

the GT5 code brought to GamesCom

Not GT5 itself. Just the code brought to GamesCom.

 

[Tekk]

Which basically means that the game is going to be released unfinished.
This looks really, really bad.
I guess the Forza boyz will be laughing.

Hmmm not necessarily. The game won't hit the stores tomorrow. If a Christmas release actually happens, there's plenty of time to adjust the damage implementation.
Even so, future patches will be a reality, so any adjustments may be applied that way.

Forza boys don't have much to laugh about. Forza is good but... meh.

 

[GTP_HairyCurry]

The important part of the story isn't what Kaz is quoted as saying. Is the bit immediately before it...



Not GT5 itself. Just the code brought to GamesCom.

Code on it's own is nothing more than a bunch of characters. It means and does nothing.
Demo = compiled code.
GT5 doesn't even exist as of now.

 

[FoolKiller]

The important part of the story isn't what Kaz is quoted as saying. Is the bit immediately before it...



Not GT5 itself. Just the code brought to GamesCom.

Good, someone else understands that demos are very often made from early builds (the ones you get at home even have a disclaimer saying as much) and are not 100% representative of the final product.

I thought I was taking crazy pills for a second.

 

[hardvibes]

Which basically means that the game is going to be released unfinished.

he didn't say that...

GT5 doesn't even exist as of now.

same here

 

[GTP_HairyCurry]

he didn't say that...

But he didn't not say it either.