The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!

[Dravonic]

http://i33.tinypic.com/19p2tc.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

I like how it progresses quite well. In most games with dynamic damage, after the first hit the subsequent hits in the same area barely cause any additional damage. Still, it's far too hard to damage it. Hoping it's a visual only damage thing and the full one will be much more violent.

And there's some serious clipping going on on that bumper, but oh well, clipping is something this generation obviously didn't manage to get rid of, so it's expected.

 

[Kryz11]

Great job. Could you also create a slower one?

 

[Zer0]

Great job. Could you also create a slower one?

 

[maxpontiac]

Nice job man. The damage on the NASCAR is impressive, and I seriously doubt we have yet to see the final product.👍

 

[morenoprieto]

Zer0 you're the machine,thanks!👍

 

[CoolColJ]

The splitter actually tearing and then flapping from the aerodynamics is quite complex and hard to do, first I've seen of this in a game 👍

Most games just have pre-scripted solid pieces falling off and breaking in whole chunks.
Never has then been dynamic tearing and shredding

The damage looks like pieces should have come off, but they just disappeared

 

[shirakawaa]

After seeing that animated gif image, I'm not sure if the front spoiler is broken or just clipping through the ground.

 

[gtone339]

The splitter actually tearing and then flapping from the aerodynamics is quite complex and hard to do, first I've seen of this in a game 👍

Most games just have pre-scripted solid pieces falling off and breaking in whole chunks.
Never has then been dynamic tearing and shredding

The damage looks like pieces should have come off, but they just disappeared

Why does it disappear?

 

[Dravonic]

The splitter actually tearing and then flapping from the aerodynamics is quite complex and hard to do, first I've seen of this in a game 👍

Most games just have pre-scripted solid pieces falling off and breaking in whole chunks.
Never has then been dynamic tearing and shredding

The damage looks like pieces should have come off, but they just disappeared

You're confusing clipping with tearing.

 

[CoolColJ]

Why does it disappear?

Having a lot of entities floating around on the track which GT5 has to keep track of might be too CPU demanding

 

[Vincent Viceroy]

OK...can we now agree that this is a step forward in damage technology?

 

[CoolColJ]

You're confusing clipping with tearing.

Between 1:35-1:40 or so, the splitter is torn and flapping about, the missing chunk is still intact and flaps downwards after a while.
And there are small tear sections flapping around off the main missing chunk.

It's more apparent if you go frame by frame

 

[maxpontiac]

OK...can we now agree that this is a step forward in damage technology?

Indeed sir. Now that I have seen the NASCAR damage from the BETA rooms, I really hope Gamscom shows us some more amazing stuff!!

 

[shirakawaa]

OK...can we now agree that this is a step forward in damage technology?

I'm not sure if you've ever played Viper Racing, an old racing sim for PC by Sierra. It had real-time (not pre-rendered) body and paint damage, basically it was possible to reduce your car to a small cube of junk (it also had a livery editor, part tuning, accurate physics, clutch support, abs on/off... does it ring some bells?) It's a fairly old game, so its graphics are rather crude by today's standards, but the system was in my opinion advanced for the time:

Here is a guy using a popular "cheat" to defeat opponents (yes, surprisingly it had cheats, while being a sim) in that game:


Sorry for the OT

 

[Patrocles]

OK...can we now agree that this is a step forward in damage technology?

wow! very nice!

I agree!!

 

[Zonda_Guy]

Yeah after watching that Nascar video again I can say I'm happy with what I'm seeing.

 

[CoolColJ]

I made an animated GIF showing what I'm talking about

See the torn front splitter section flapping about? And that small tear off the main one?
Also note the sparks fall back onto the ground and get left behind like physical objects

 

[Dravonic]

I made an animated GIF showing what I'm talking about

See the torn front splitter section flapping about? And that small tear off the main one?
Also note the sparks fall back onto the ground and get left behind like physical objects
http://i38.tinypic.com/2z4zl06.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

That's clipping. The splitter bent downwards and is going through the asphalt. As the car moves up and down, the splitter dives into and surfaces from the asphalt, giving the illusion it's flapping.

 

[The_Paladin]

OK...can we now agree that this is a step forward in damage technology?

Not much, still pretty weak even when is good that is realtime. I hope they make it much more severe and add paint scratches. We havent seen much deformation and paintscratches together.

If im not mistake even GTA have realtime damage, and of course an old game like Viper Racing (was great, i loved hitting the other cars with the ball).

Edit: yes, realtime

 

[CoolColJ]

That's clipping. The splitter bent downwards and is going through the asphalt. As the car moves up and down, the splitter dives into and surfaces from the asphalt, giving the illusion it's flapping.

I see a shadow under the flap when it's bent up, doesn't look like clipping to me

edit - how anyone thinks this is clipping is beyond me

flapping up ---> flapping down

---

If im not mistake even GTA have realtime damage, and of course an old game like Viper Racing (was great, i loved hitting the other cars with the ball).

Edit: yes, realtime

^ And GTA damage is about as canned and scripted as you can get!

Do you people even know the difference between dynamic, real physics based damage and scripted pre-baked damage is?

 

[Dravonic]

I see a shadow under the flap when it's bent up, doesn't look like clipping to me

edit - how anyone thinks this is clipping is beyond me

flapping up ---> flapping down
http://i33.tinypic.com/35hh8bb.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Diving into the asphalt --------------------------------- Surfacing from the asphalt
[IMG]http://i33.tinypic.com/35hh8bb.jpg

I recognize clipping when I see it. There's plenty of it going on latter in the video:

In the image you've shown it's still subtle and together with the low quality of the video it's giving you the wrong impression.

 

[CoolColJ]

The shadows and perspective just doesn't seem consistent to me if that's clipping, from me being an artist and 3D renderer
I have the video in my editor, and when I go frame by frame, I can see the splitter actually bending.
Guess we'll find out for sure, come November and revisit these posts

2 consecutive frame animated gif - prety clear to me that is not clipping - look at the shadow under the flapping parts
The shadow indicates depth and distance from the road.

 

[Forza4life]

The shadows and perspective just doesn't seem consistent to me if that's clipping, from me being an artist and 3D renderer
I have the video in my editor, and when I go frame by frame, I can see the splitter actually bending.
Guess we'll find out for sure, come November and revisit these posts

2 consecutive frame animated gif - prety clear to me that is not clipping - look at the shadow under the flapping parts

👍

 

[Dravonic]

^ It does look like it's flapping, I'll give you that. However, there's obvious clipping going latter in the video:

So I'm quite sure it's clipping, not flapping.

 

[Jay]

^ And GTA damage is about as canned and scripted as you can get!

You must be thinking of a old PS2 GTA because GTA 4 is totally dynamic physics based and that includes very detailed exact located scratches.

This Nascar damage in my opinion far exceeds what I expect (as Dave said previously road cars wont go this far so don't expect it) which is much better than any pre-canned damage model... But... from what I have personally seen and experienced GTA 4 still has the best damage system and it's not hard to figure out why. The don't have to worry about licensing.

 

[CoolColJ]

You must be thinking of a old PS2 GTA because GTA 4 is totally dynamic physics based and that includes very detailed exact located scratches.

This Nascar damage in my opinion far exceeds what I expect (as Dave said previously road cars wont go this far so don't expect it) which is much better than any pre-canned damage model... But... from what I have personally seen and experienced GTA 4 still has the best damage system and it's not hard to figure out why. The don't have to worry about licensing.

I have GTA4 on the PC, and while the object and pedestrians use some form of dynamic physics, I'm not convinced the car damage is physical based, determined by force and angle of impact and material properties

 

[Lain]

This'll blow your mind, folks. Perhaps it's both clipping and flapping.

 

[Jay]

I have GTA4 on the PC, and while the object and pedestrians use some form of dynamic physics, I'm not convinced the car damage is physical based, determined by force and angle of impact and material properties

I can't view the youtube video at the moment because of stupid limits on my stupid Australian internet plan but, In GTA get a car and do some repetative collisions with it, repair it each time if you wish but the damage will be different each time even if the collision type was seemingly exact there is always differences.

For this reason GTA 4 gives me a lot of replayability as when I am bored I like to drive at high speed and clip hard objects with the rear quarter of the car to watch it deform differently each time and in the correct location. On odd times the point of impact is slightly off but thats a detection thing. GTA is NOT pre canned what so ever but does have some limitations.

 

[Forza4life]

Going off of your gif, it looked as if it really could be clipping...but it still had a shadow after the splitter flapped back after passing the white asphalt (I just watched the shadow part to see it in the gif). Other than the assumption of clipping what could be causing the splitter to bend back and flap forward like that so suddenly from just spinning in that direction? I couldn't really tell by going off of that blurry gif so I rewatched the video instead and after doing so I've came to the conclusion that it wasn't spinning, the driver actually backed into a barrier which in turn caused that whipflash effect of the splitter which could be misinterpretated as clipping by just going off of your gif.

1:50-1:55 (For you and others to judge)

 

[Dravonic]

I have GTA4 on the PC, and while the object and pedestrians use some form of dynamic physics, I'm not convinced the car damage is physical based, determined by force and angle of impact and material properties

GTAIV has damage determined by force and angle of impact. Not sure about material properties, I think not but maybe it's in. That video looks a lot like a physics engine trap check gone wrong.

This'll blow your mind, folks. Perhaps it's both clipping and flapping.

Possible, but since there is clipping going on, what do you suppose is happening? It's most likely just clipping.

Going off of your gif, it looked as if it really could be clipping...but it still had a shadow after the splitter flapped back after passing the white asphalt (I just watched the shadow part to see it in the gif). Other than the assumption of clipping what could be causing the splitter to bend back and flap forward like that so suddenly from just spinning in that direction? I couldn't really tell by going off of that blurry gif so I rewatched the video instead and after doing so I've came to the conclusion that it wasn't spinning, the driver actually backed into a barrier which in turn cause that whipflash effect of the splitter which could be misinterpretated as clipping.

1:50-1:55 (For you and others to judge)