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The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1
- Thread starter NotThePrez
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- 14,003
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Maybe so, but it would appear that Sauber shafted him. I don't think that's something that should be deemed acceptable just because VDG is kind of a douchenozzle.
To be fair, he'd have a seat if two other drivers hadn't paid more for it. He's not the greatest driver in the world, and not really worthy of a seat in F1, but that's a common problem these days. Ericsson is hardly any better, and Nasr is an unknown in an F1 car.
I don't see how his driving talent or lack of it comes into the picture. It's not like he's being replaced with outright better drivers, he's being replaced by drivers with more money who may happen to turn out to be better if Sauber is lucky.
Which is sort of the thing that a lot of people are bemoaning about the state of F1 currently, that they go where the quick buck is.
I don't think VDG is terribly worthy of a drive, but neither do I think he should be booted from one that had been agreed to just because someone with a bigger wallet showed up. That's not fair, and that's not how contracts work. We're yet to hear exactly what went on, but it seems that two legal bodies have agreed that whatever it was it entitled VDG to a drive this year.
- 20,685
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Perhaps this is where the FIA get to flex their few muscles? Perhaps Bernie has been on the Todt-phone suggesting that they do?
I hadn't realised that VdG didn't have a superlicence... that would make the whole case ridiculous in the extreme.
Wow, that's us told, and without a single hint of irony.
It's early here but I'm sure that's the best thing I'll read today.
I guess as the season moves on it remains to be seen how many other countries VdG is successful in... I'm sure Sauber won't be honouring the judgement in any other territories.
The FIA contract-dispute-resolution facility (something I wasn't aware of until @prisonermonkeys pointed it out) are, I guess, the only people who can now make a judgement that binds Sauber across all the races?
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- spyrrari
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- HamiltonMP427
If we all believed unicorn farts and pixie dust, we'd all be F1 drivers right now. And most of us here have legitimate work that doesn't force our employer through some vague contract to hire us back after we ourselves some terminated said contract. Most of us actually go to school and learn big time things and just follow a sport that yields many spoiled kids that didn't have to go through such things.
But sorry that our myopic misunderstandings are only trumped by your myopic understanding of the limited few like VDG.
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- mustafur
Seems like you have no idea what your talking about in basically everything you said.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Oh, give it a rest. You levelled the "couch potato" accusation, remember? Looked like a fair answer to me.
On-topic;
@prisonermonkeys; how "final" is that Stewards' List normally? Can Sauber still be in contempt if the FIA Stewards themselves don't find VdG eligible? Maybe Sauber only have to propose him as a driver? I guess no team can force the FIA to run any of their drivers just because the team say so (whatever the reasons for the team proposing any given driver).
The only people winning here so far are the lawyers... and the couch potato's (sic).
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It can be changed on a Friday - in order to take part in a race, a driver must participate in at least one free practice session, usually FP3, and qualify the car.
The court order says that Sauber must prepare the car for van der Garde, but if the FIA does not recognise him - and if they don't recognise him independently of a team's influence - then van der Garde cannot take that out on Sauber. They just need to demonstrate that they took every reasonable step to prepare for van der Garde.
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That sets a dangerous precedent; his previous achievements are greater than several others' on the entry list. Second place overall in a GP2 championship and he wasn't that dangerous to overtake as an F1 backmarker...that ought to be enough.
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This super licence thing is a bit perplexing, as one would imagine VDG's super licence to be done and dusted.
Could it just be a matter of annual renewal fee?
Could it just be a matter of annual renewal fee?
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With no experience of the C34 chassis or of the 2014-spec engines?
The FIA reserve the right to issue licences at their discretion. The licence must be renewed each year, and qualifying for one does not guarantee that it will be issued. The process of applying for one takes time, and it is being reported that van der Garde only submitted the paperwork yesterday. Even then, the FIA may argue that van der Garde and/or Sauber have brought the sport into disrepute, and refuse to grant them licences.
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- pezzarinho17
Paperwork and financial exercise.
EDIT: PM offers greater detail above. The process would normally take 2 weeks but VDG believes it can be fast-tracked. Probably with money.
EDIT: PM offers greater detail above. The process would normally take 2 weeks but VDG believes it can be fast-tracked. Probably with money.
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It's a matter of renewing it I think. Plus the small matter of needing his contract to be reactivated since it was terminated 2-3 weeks ago.
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- spacecowboy73
- spacecowboy73
So it seems most people here are ok with teams not honoring contracts? Got it.
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@GTPorsche How could VDG's contract be terminated when an arbitator's award confirmed his entitlement for a 2015 race seat?
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- Neomone
Quite apart from the situation of who isn't going to be driving this weekend, I'd be pretty uncomfortable if I was Ericsson or Nasr right now. You're working for a team that has apparently demonstrated a willingness to throw a driver under the bus for the right amount of money, regardless of legality.
I imagine they've got their lawyers going through their own contracts with a fine tooth comb to make sure that there isn't something in there that Sauber can use against them. I imagine it's going to be less of a team and more of a group of individuals watching each other very carefully this weekend.
I imagine they've got their lawyers going through their own contracts with a fine tooth comb to make sure that there isn't something in there that Sauber can use against them. I imagine it's going to be less of a team and more of a group of individuals watching each other very carefully this weekend.
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I wonder to what extend contacting the CRB to desactivate VDG's contract conflicts with the order to "refrain from taking any action the effect of which would be to deprive Mr. van der Garde of his entitlement to participate in the 2015 Formula One Season as one of Sauber's two nominated race drivers"
Luckily Monisha Kaltenborn is a lawyer...
Luckily Monisha Kaltenborn is a lawyer...
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
None at all, I shouldn't think. It seems that Sauber (possibly quite cleverly) informed CRB some time before the Australian decision was made. Sauber are bound by the FIA's rules to provide any information to the FIA as required and will continue to do so on request. That matter stands separately from VdG's appeal to drive.
In any case, as far as I'm aware Sauber have no assets or bases in Australia (other than those temporarily visiting Melbourne for the race) so once they leave the country VdG will be out of a drive (as far as the reach of the Australian action goes).
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Looks like the entire situation has escalated.
Adam Cooper@adamcooperF1
If @SauberF1Team does not co-operate and court hearing tomorrow goes against them we could see bailiffs/sheriffs seizing the C34s
Adam Cooper@adamcooperF1
Usually when bailiffs/police get involved in racing someone is owed money. This time @SauberF1Team faces charges of contempt of court
Adam Cooper@adamcooperF1
If @SauberF1Team does not co-operate and court hearing tomorrow goes against them we could see bailiffs/sheriffs seizing the C34s
Adam Cooper@adamcooperF1
Usually when bailiffs/police get involved in racing someone is owed money. This time @SauberF1Team faces charges of contempt of court
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@TenEightyOne The quote comes from the swiss ruling, which is prior to the sending of the letter to the CBR; or so I understand.
It may be temporary medicine (as far as Melbourne is concerned), but doesn't help Sauber on the longer term IMO.
Not sure Swiss Courts ( Sauber's homeland ) will appreciate the way they handled their recommendations.
It may be temporary medicine (as far as Melbourne is concerned), but doesn't help Sauber on the longer term IMO.
Not sure Swiss Courts ( Sauber's homeland ) will appreciate the way they handled their recommendations.
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So the deals with the tracks are written in the same style as a Sauber deal, sign here,send the money here,and we may even show up and honor the deal.
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- spacecowboy73
- spacecowboy73
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It used to be the Superlicenses could be granted to a greater pool of applicants than available seats...I don't see how that could change. And it's not as if he missed several years, just one. Several drivers have missed time and then drove after an engine formula change throughout the Superlicence era (circa 1981-82?) so that's a bit moot. While his credentials and resume are on the weak side, they still fulfill the criteria for granting a license (unless they have massively changed).
Saying they're bringing the sport into disrepute...their task is to enforce laws and rules the teams, drivers, organizers, et al are bound by, then the FIA is no better than a country fair demolition-derby organizer for failure to heed their own rules and regulations by changing them on a whim.
So, while I don't really care much if Giedo van der Garde gets the seat or not, it seems like an extremely arbitrary decision the governing body preventing him from driving. Sauber could have just stated their contract more appropriately so this wouldn't have happened in the first place.
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