The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1 

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mustafur
It's not just development, it's how the car reacts to certain tracks, last year Williams struggled on the High downforce tracks such as Monaco as their car was more designed for the Low to medium downforce tracks.

But it was, thats why I mentioned him in the first place


This is all irrelevent because it was more of Vettels failings being in that position rather then Bottas speed on why he was ahead at the end, my point is it's not a performance you can say Bottas outraced Vettel in a worse car all things considered.


Im sorry but im trying to have an argument on something that is possible to do and this isn't this is wild speculation based on zero factual information.

What's wild speculation? There are facts that are known, one of those is Fernando was given number 1 status at Ferrari, two Fernando wanted Felipe to be retained at Ferrari.

Where is the quote? I said 4 years at Ferrari.

When I said odd flashes of pace in last 5 years that was including last year at Williams.
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I Still don't Rate him highly due to the fact he hasn't dominated Massa who I think isn't a top tier driver anymore, he hasn't shown anything more then odd flashes of top pace for the last 5 years so thats what im basing it on, and he was demolished by Alonso for 4 years straight
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The way it's structured makes it look as if you're taking into account Massa's performance before being paired with Bottas. For example you say last five years with four of them being outright beat by Alonso, hence why I would read it as 09-13.

Say what you want about Webber but there are a few things that should be noted, Webber was at the end of his career age and speed wise also the fact Vettel was still developing being only 23 at the time and only 2.5 years in the sport thats Younger then Bottas is now and with similar experience both at the time would be in a position to show more, Webber did get the odd flashes of speed though but was comprehensively beaten just like he was in the last half of 2010 as well.

Schumacher on the other hand was more of a car problem given that both him and his team mate significantly got worse together rather then just him that was 2005, in 2006 with the Tyre regulations going back to allowing for change during the race the car was competitive for the title and Schumacher fought well, I don't particularly see anything wrong with his 2006 season frankly as 2004 the car was easily the class of the field and he performed as such.

I would say Massa performed well in the last half of 2012 but apart from that there was no evidence of him doing that in any other season he was at Ferrari except pre accident, 2007 for example if you want to go that far back he actually got worse as the season went on.
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2013 he was did well second half but his first half seemed on par, and really wasn't all that bad with his avg finish being sixth/seventh place. As for MS that wasn't the point you said regulations don't seem to drastically change a drivers performance given the fact they're talented in the first place (paraphrasing) I gave examples where even the highly talented had trouble performing due to new regulations that hurt their overall style. Even slight changes seem to have quite the effect and drivers take time to over come this. Webber I just disagree, the car after 2010 seemed to be more aero intensive instead of mechanical and suited toward Vettel than both. I still think Vettel is by far a better driver, but Webber was still fast and proved that in 2010 but I think being disillusioned with the team after that season only hurt him more along with the changes to the car already.

Im Highlighting exactly what im talking about, having a discussion doesn't have to involve this stuff it is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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Also I would argue the most flawed thing here is your Massa, Alonso analysis because it mostly depends on what you think happened rather then any proof apart from a few 1 off events.
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You're right Massa is mediocre and Bottas hasn't done anything to prove he's a top driver, or we'll just wait for this season to end and see if he gets promoted to a top role and then judge from their.

Maybe the fear you and others have is another Perez a la McLaren type move, of a driver that drove well when the car was on but didn't prove it further when at a top team. However, if that's the fear I'd say Bottas in a the current Williams of the new generation engines has been far more consistent than a Perez type. Either way waiting is the best option from here.

As for attitude, you convey what you will over the net but when I press someone for dialogue it's because of not fully seeing or agreeing with what they're saying. Not anything personal at all and I only said what I did because you've been on about "attitudes" and what not as if this is personal and it's not.


Anyways it's good to see Ferrari denying that Lewis will jump over to them from Mercedes. Maybe 2017 it will be more likely but I don't see it happening next year.
 
I'll be honest though, when it comes to Kimi, I would of sacked him before this season. But now that he doing well I just don't see why Ferrari would let him go whilst he is atleast starting to show the form that put him there in the first place.

End of the day only a fanboy would not want to see talent rise, it makes for great watching and improves the quality of the show.

There is already too much talent for Competitive seats, and many are likely doomed for journeyman status purely from lack of availability.

Go back 20 years or so and this was definitely not the case.

As for attitude I would prefer to talk about F1 from a constructive way, and definitely not like how they do on Crash, discussions turn to rants real fast and nothing informative comes from it.
 
mustafur
I'll be honest though, when it comes to Kimi, I would of sacked him before this season. But now that he doing well I just don't see why Ferrari would let him go whilst he is atleast starting to show the form that put him there in the first place.

End of the day only a fanboy would not want to see talent rise, it makes for great watching and improves the quality of the show.

There is already too much talent for Competitive seats, and many are likely doomed for journeyman status purely from lack of availability.

Go back 20 years or so and this was definitely not the case.

As for attitude I would prefer to talk about F1 from a constructive way, and definitely not like how they do on Crash, discussions turn to rants real fast and nothing informative comes from it.
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As the team boss said it's psychological with him and certain others. You have to threaten them at times to wake them up to get that kind of performance. Which is sad, considering all the many good drivers waiting in the wings or those already in F1 that need a better team and would fully be alert from the drop. But as you said there is a ton of talent out there so Kimi should realize this now and get on with it if truly has unfinished business.
 
TenEightyOne
Like whenever Massa was about to get sacked, if I recall correctly.
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Exactly, but now he drives with vigor because the shadow of a number one doesn't sit over him. He instead questions if the Merc PU under him is the same as the one under Nico and Lewis.:indiff:

In other words he's showing that spark he had, and no one has to threaten him because he feels more at home with Williams it seems
 
I suppose it might make sense with Grosjean there.
 
As posted in the thread on Haas, the FIA has opened up the bid process for another new team, possibly to join in 2016 or follow Haas' lead and defer until 2017. It has been speculated that ART Grand Prix is putting together a bid, although crash.net is speculating that Carlin are also interested.

Meanwhile, James Allen is suggesting that Gerard Lopez has grown disillusioned with Formula 1 and wants out, but Renault - the most likely buyer - don't want to commit a full manufacturer program until the problems with their engine are sorted, and Allen thinks they have given Lotus a $200 million loan.
 
Speculation in Monaco suggested that Ferrari will offer Kimi Raikkonen a contract for 2016, but will look elsewhere in 2017. However, in Montreal, Daniel Ricciardo has been openly critical of Red Bull and their lack of progress, and the team hasn't moved to censure him. With the likes of Helmut Marko trying to hold the team hostage to Renault, Ricciardo has to be thinking about his future - and as much as Ferrari have been said to be looking at Valtteri Bottas and Nico Hulkenberg, they would be mad not to consider Ricciardo. I doubt Sebastian Vettel would care too much, since he took control of Ferrari and Raikkonen has really been riding his coat-tails. But more importantly, from Ferrari's perspective, Ricciardo and Vettel is probably the only combination of drivers that could realistically break Mercedes' stranglehold.
 
From what is know Bottas contract finishes this year though, but I do think Ferrari will try stay with Kimi for 2016 so they have maximum options for 2017 when Ricciardo is out of contract.

The problem will be if Williams will be happy with only a 1 year contract with Bottas knowing he will likely leave.

This is what i think will be the main Silly season thing to look forward to if the next few seasons stay the same in the pecking order, I doubt Ricciardo will leave Redbull if the car next year is as good as it was last year though.

Then you got the STR Pairing which will probably be developed at an elite level by then going by current form, which could open options up even more.

2017 is probably a bit too far away to get a proper a picture on given the overflowing talent coming into F1 and the talent that is showing itself already.
 
Sainz and Verstappen's fates will likely lie with the Renault situation. I wouldn't be surprised if Gene Haas is watching them very closely.
 
Autosport seems to think the technical and development partnership with Ferrari will allow Haas to start at a Force india Sauber level rather then a Manor level, especially since they are taking advantage of the unlimited wind tunnel rules for new comers using Marrelleno facilities.

Which if that's the case im thinking a Perez/Gutierrez lineup is likely the aim.

Both are Ferrari drivers from Mexico(close to US) with huge backing.
 
Dietrich Mateschitz's comments on Renault are getting lots of coverage in Austria, leading to speculation that Red Bull could back out (though it's suggested that they won't shut the team down).
 
You know, the entire 4 years running they won the championship I don't think I ever heard the word Renault come out of anybody's mouth at Red Bull, but now... They are an embarrassment to the sport, they should just pack up and go home.
 
Like I said in the constructors thread... he should just take his tantrum and leave the sport. If other teams did the quitting thing at the first sign of trouble, I'm not sure Ferrari or McLaren, or Williams would still be around.
 
I don't think that he should simply put with it and shut up about it. This year's Renault is a complete disaster - at least Honda have the excuse of being new. It's obvious that Renault have made no progress on solving the problems that have plagued them from the start of the year, and I think that it's quite telling when the likes of Ted Kravitz note that the spirit is gone from the team. And given that Renault have a contract until 2020, can you really blame Mateschitz from trying to light a fire under Renault's belly? Marko might throw criticisms around with reckless abandon, but Mateschitz rarely speaks unless it's important.

As much as they are trying to lure Volkswagen or Audi into the sport, one of the suggestions from free practice was that Christian Horner could gradually buy the team out and re-badge it as Arden, because as frustrated as the senior management is, they don't want to shut the team down. There was also the suggestion that they could contract someone to develop an ICE for them, Ilmor-style, and get the other components from suppliers. And there was also the possibility - though this was a fringe theory - of getting Infiniti or Nissan in somehow.

Also, there are rumours that Manor could shelve their planned 2015 car entirely and switch focus to 2016, doing a deal with Honda that would essentially see them get free engines and effectively repay Honda with data.
 
I'm not saying they should just shut up about it, but this kind of behavior within a team is bound to do much more damage than good. They should keep such tirades behind closed doors, in upper management where it belongs. Do they think there is anyone out there that doesn't know that there are problems, that anyone isn't busting their arses to get it figured out? They all are going to have to work together to get things right and that's going to be difficult to do with such animosity flying around.
The Manor/Honda idea sounds like a good deal, would like to see that happen.
 
According to Christian Horner, Mateschitz is only repeating in public what he has already said behind closed doors. And going by what Autosport published earlier today, they'll be using Renault engines for certain in 2016.
 
I'm bored, so here's some speculation on what the 2016 grid could look like:

MERCEDES
#6 - Nico Rosberg
#44 - Lewis Hamilton

Both drivers are already under contract for 2016.

FERRARI
#5 - Sebastian Vettel
#77 - Valtteri Bottas

Vettel is on a multi-year deal, while Ferrari let Raikkonen go in favour of Bottas.

RED BULL (RENAULT)
#3 - Daniel Ricciardo
#55 - Carlos Sainz, Jr.

Ricciardo is under contract, but Kvyat turns down an extension and the team take Sainz instead.

McLAREN (HONDA)
#14 - Fernando Alonso
#22 - Jenson Button

Despite their engine woes, Alonso and Button stay with the team.

WILLIAMS (MERCEDES)
#8 - Romain Grosjean
#60 - Alex Lynn

With Bottas off to Ferrari, Williams promote Alex Lynn. Massa departs, to be replaced by Grosjean.

LOTUS (MERCEDES)
#2 - Jolyon Palmer
#13 - Pastor Maldonado

Palmer buys Grosjean's seat, Maldonado stays with the team.

SAUBER (FERRARI)
#12 - Felipe Nasr
#36 - Raffaele Marciello

Nasr keeps funding the team, while Sauber take Marciello for an engine subsidy.

FORCE INDIA (MERCEDES)
#11 - Sergio Perez
#19 - Felipe Massa

Hulkenberg leaves, to be replaced by Massa. Perez stayz with the team.

TORO ROSSO (RENAULT)
#33 - Max Verstappen
#49 - Pierre Gasly

With Sainz promoted, Toro Rosso promote Gasly to a race seat.

ART GRAND PRIX (HONDA)
#20 - Kevin Magnussen
#51 - Stoffel Vandoorne

Honda buys into Manor, rebranding it ART Grand Prix. Stevens and Merhi are let go and replaced with Magnussen and Vandoorne.

HAAS (FERRARI)
#27 - Nico Hulkenberg
#86 - Antonio Fuoco

Hulkenberg jumps sideways again, this time to Haas. Ferrari promote Fuoco, expecting him to compete with Marciello.

SMP CARLIN (HONDA)
#26 - Daniil Kvyat
#37 - Sergey Sirotkin

Carlin and SMP Racing join forces to win the twelfth grid spot. They get Honda engines cheaply and recruit Kvyat and Sirotkin.
 
prisonermonkeys
I'm bored, so here's some speculation on what the 2016 grid could look like:

MERCEDES
#6 - Nico Rosberg
#44 - Lewis Hamilton

Both drivers are already under contract for 2016.

FERRARI
#5 - Sebastian Vettel
#77 - Valtteri Bottas

Vettel is on a multi-year deal, while Ferrari let Raikkonen go in favour of Bottas.

RED BULL (RENAULT)
#3 - Daniel Ricciardo
#55 - Carlos Sainz, Jr.

Ricciardo is under contract, but Kvyat turns down an extension and the team take Sainz instead.

McLAREN (HONDA)
#14 - Fernando Alonso
#22 - Jenson Button

Despite their engine woes, Alonso and Button stay with the team.

WILLIAMS (MERCEDES)
#8 - Romain Grosjean
#60 - Alex Lynn

With Bottas off to Ferrari, Williams promote Alex Lynn. Massa departs, to be replaced by Grosjean.

LOTUS (MERCEDES)
#2 - Jolyon Palmer
#13 - Pastor Maldonado

Palmer buys Grosjean's seat, Maldonado stays with the team.

SAUBER (FERRARI)
#12 - Felipe Nasr
#36 - Raffaele Marciello

Nasr keeps funding the team, while Sauber take Marciello for an engine subsidy.

FORCE INDIA (MERCEDES)
#11 - Sergio Perez
#19 - Felipe Massa

Hulkenberg leaves, to be replaced by Massa. Perez stayz with the team.

TORO ROSSO (RENAULT)
#33 - Max Verstappen
#49 - Pierre Gasly

With Sainz promoted, Toro Rosso promote Gasly to a race seat.

ART GRAND PRIX (HONDA)
#20 - Kevin Magnussen
#51 - Stoffel Vandoorne

Honda buys into Manor, rebranding it ART Grand Prix. Stevens and Merhi are let go and replaced with Magnussen and Vandoorne.

HAAS (FERRARI)
#27 - Nico Hulkenberg
#86 - Antonio Fuoco

Hulkenberg jumps sideways again, this time to Haas. Ferrari promote Fuoco, expecting him to compete with Marciello.

SMP CARLIN (HONDA)
#26 - Daniil Kvyat
#37 - Sergey Sirotkin

Carlin and SMP Racing join forces to win the twelfth grid spot. They get Honda engines cheaply and recruit Kvyat and Sirotkin.
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Grosjean and Maldonado are under contract for Lotus for 2016, same as Perez and Hulkenberg for Force India, Massa for Williams.
 
Contracts can change. Martin Brundle was recounting a conversation he had with Hulkenberg in which Hulkenberg said that how he feels about the Le Mans win in a few weeks will decide who he races for in 2016.
 
GTPorsche
I'd assume that Hulk would pick the LMP ride with Porsche if he can't get a better seat in F1.
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But there are no better seats. Mercedes is taken, and Red Bull have never recruited from outside their own ranks. Ferrari have a vacancy, but speculation suggests that they will retain Raikkonen or hire Bottas. If Hulkenberg is looking to move for 2016, then it has to be a sideways move. And with Haas looking to replace Sauber as Ferrari B-team, it might be his only chance if he still wants a top drive.
 
I was surprised that Ferrari didn't take Hulk a few years back, I think he has proven he can handle a top ride and think someone should grab him asap.
 
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