Formula 1 The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archive

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by NotThePrez, Sep 25, 2014.

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  1. FutureF1

    FutureF1

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    I could see that for Massa and Raikkonen, but Alonso and Button still seem full of life.

    As for development, a new driver has no idea what a proper F1 car should feel like. Anything in F1 is an upgrade from wherever they came. Experienced drivers have driven many different cars and in different regulations so they know what works to get the job done as well as possible
     
  2. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

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    This is car-setup you are speaking of. To which I can agree, although racing drivers just know how a car should behave at a given circuit. Unless your name is Yuji Ide of course...

    As for development, this is the engineer's job. You show the drawings of a car to a racing driver, and they'd probably react "Whatever, just make the thing darn fast." Developing a fast car is all about how smart, or sneaky, your engineering team is. It has very little, to nothing, to do with the driver. But of course you can engineer a car to bias slightly towards a given driving style, example Alonso at Renault.

    I highly doubt you need a driver who's been in the F1 circus since 2000 to tell you whether the engine's less rubbish than the previous weekend.
     
  3. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    But you do need them to tell you where to go next.
     
  4. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

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    So you need a racing driver to tell you you lack power, instead of an entire team of engineers that have a multitude of sensors attached to the car, and can document every inch of performance of the car of every inch of track? Every team must waste a lot of money on all of those well educated, and highly experienced engineers then...
     
  5. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    McLaren evidently see the benefit in it.
     
  6. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    None of which drive the car at race speed. That is why they need the input of the driver. Then experience wins, like it or not.
     
  7. TheElbows

    TheElbows

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    I think F1 is definitely stagnating with a lot of the older drivers. Short of a world-beating car I don't see Button, Massa etc. doing much of anything. Solid, consistent performance or maybe driver coaching a younger talented teammate? Maybe.

    Kimi, I can't read. I think he probably still has a good boot if he was in a better car. He seems bored and is just riding along for the money (and I don't blame him).

    I think Alonso is probably one of the most talented drivers in the field - talented enough that in the right car he would still compete for race wins. I think Hamilton also has pretty good "raw talent". Vettel might but I really can't tell. He had such a dominating car for his championships that I don't know if he's really good...or excellent.

    Ricciardo strikes me as the elder statesmen of the "new wave" of drivers, despite his age. I think there is a lot of decent talent (the guys who didn't just buy into the series). I think Perez has matured enough to be a very good driver. Verstappen is way too young and new to really decide on.

    I'd desperately like to see some mix ups in drivers and I'd like to see Mercedes leave in 2018 as quasi-rumored. I'd like to see a new manufacturer. Hell, I'd like to see Ferrari appear out of nowhere with a legitimately fast car. For a series which doesn't offer much in the way of exciting racing - I'd like to at least be entertained by driver and manufacturer swaps.
     
  8. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    I disagree with your last sentence. There havr been multiple great races this season.
     
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  9. Samus

    Samus

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    Not sure why anyone thinks a huge manufacturer like Mercedes leaving would be a good thing for F1. Not only are they a loss themselves it doesn't encourage others to get involved. "If it's not worth it for Mercedes, why would it be for us?"

    Yes, we all know Mercedes are dominating right now but it won't last. It never has in F1 and never will. Partly because of the regular regulation changes by the FIA but also just naturally teams move around the pecking order eventually.

    They are definitely good for the sport as a whole and would be a big loss, just as Toyota and BMW were and Renault before they came back. F1 needs these big manufacturers.
     
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  10. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Renault have acknowledged that they want Pérez and will try to secure him over the summer.

    Esteban Ocon has also been named as a potential replacement for Rio Haryanto this year.
     
  11. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

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    Would Renault be an upgrade for him, though? I have no doubt he is a very skilled driver, but he's had some impressive results this year. Renault seem to be at the very bottom of the field in terms of pace. Then again they might be able to climb up the order with next year's new rules, depending of their staff's competence.
     
  12. prisonermonkeys

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    They can only get better. According to Kevin Magnussen, Renault are already developing their 2017 car full-time.

    More importantly, Ferrari passed on him. It seems that they didn't see anything in him worth sacrificing Räikkönen for. If he wants a works seat, Renault may be his last chance.
     
  13. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

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    That's a shame, I would've liked seeing Perez' potential on the front of the grid.
     
  14. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Nothing has been signed yet, and Vijay Mallya insists that Pérez has some kind of deal in place. I seriously doubt that Pérez will sign with Renault unless they're at least as good as Force India.
     
  15. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Yes because Renault has top team potential Force India doesn't.

    F1s savage nature means Perez can be the best driver on the grid and no top team will look at him, so this is his best chance.
     
  16. Samus

    Samus

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  17. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    That, to me, feels more like Renault are trying to demonstrate that Formula E is a viable career path for drivers. A lot of the Formula E grid is made up of former Formula One drivers - Buemi, di Grassi, d'Ambrosio, Senna, Vergne, Heidfeld, Piquet et al - who never really had any success, and drivers like da Costa, Frijns, Abt and Bird who never made it to Formula One despite lots of potential. On a certain level, Formula E looks like a bit of a consolation prize, a championship for drivers who couldn't cut it in the top category, and I am sure that no-one in the category wants to be seen that way. So by giving Buemi a test, they're probably hoping to turn the tide.
     
  18. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Pierre Gasly is busy proving why he's not ready for Formula One - he duffed the start of the GP2 race and has gone absolutely nowhere since. Now he's managed to set off the fire extinguisher.
     
  19. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

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    I'd be surprised if Buemi were to leave WEC. It looks to me like the guy is having a blast with Toyota, though they are uncompetitive outside of Le Mans. He is certainly one of the fastest LMP1 drivers in the current field.
     
  20. mustafur

    mustafur

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    He got back to 3rd in that race, but he got excluded because of the fire extinguisher(which was leaking hardly his fault), even despite all this he still leads the championship so I still don't see your point.
     
  21. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    That leading the championship isn't necessarily what defines a driver's readiness. Would you still pick Gasly, knowing that he struggles in traffic?
     
  22. mustafur

    mustafur

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    He made up places pretty well in the race though so whats the issue.

    Does every driver need to do what Hamilton did at Turkey 2006 to satisfy you?
     
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  23. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    The issue is that he's quick over one lap, but struggles throughout the race when he hits traffic. I have never seen him make a decisive move against another driver.

    Pretty much. Formula One is supposed to be for the best and the brightest, and right now there are three other drivers - Sirotkin, Giovinazzi and Ghiotto - who have a better claim to being the best and the brightest.
     
  24. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Pretty specific way of saying how some one is better, I would rate speed and ability to score would be higher, and im almost certainly sure Redbull see the same thing.

    Sirotkin has made much more mistakes this season and Ghiotto has been no where for the majority of the season and has been out of the points more then he has been in the points, which raises the question what are you watching?
     
  25. prisonermonkeys

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    A couple of possible line-ups from James Allen:

    https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016...-f1-driver-market-as-summer-break-approaches/

    Apparently that was down to the clutch. They rebuilt it and he improved straight away. Besides, he got himself back into title contention in a single race despite a ridiculous penalty (and that was before Gasly's disqualification).

    And difficult races aren't necessarily a bad thing for young drivers. If they qualify out of position, they have to really display their racecraft as they work their way through the field. Gasly's only wins have come from controlling the race from the front, but unless he lands in a Mercedes next year, that skill isn't going to be worth as much as others.

    He's had several impressive drives - like yesterday's race - where he has worked his way up. I'm not saying that he's ready for Formula One, just that he's impressive in his own way.
     
  26. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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  27. TheElbows

    TheElbows

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    I cannot fathom the consideration of Button...but then I couldn't understand why they kept Massa on (outside of potential sponsorship money?).
     
  28. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    He's very good and won a world championship in an inferior car. He's stood up well against some very good team-mates, he's good for PR, he's very experienced in working well with engineers and he's unflappable. Seems like a good buy, even in his twilight years :)
     
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  29. Kuusi

    Kuusi

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    Except the BGP 001 was the dominant car for the first half of the season? :confused:

    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that discredits Button's title at all; he's a great driver. But let's not kid ourselves here. Even once Red Bull dethroned Brawn that year, in terms of having the fastest car, Brawn were still a relatively close second. To suggest otherwise is to over-inflate Jenson's achievements into something much larger, than they really were.
     
  30. twitcher

    twitcher

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    What's over inflating achievements more? Jenson's title with a car that was dominant for 1/2 a season, or Hamilton's last 2 titles in a car that has been leagues ahead of the rest of the field?

    If we're going to start being less impressed with Jensen's WDC in a superior car, what does that say about Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Senna, Prost, Mansel, etc?

    Vast majority of WDC were won with superior cars. To discredit one (who had a superior car for only 1/2 a season) is to discredit any title won with a superior car.
     
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