The General Anime Thread...

[The Vanishing Boy]

->

^ I can't see it.

Same, can't see it.

^ Edited.

-> Plus bonus!

-Todays AEAD-...for tomorrow.

 

[Cano]

I read the etire wall of text regarding Madoka that TC posted (I rarely read that stuff whenever he posts it), and yet again it's clear that half the show, coincidentially the really deep stuff, flew over his mind. Like whoosh, into one ear and outta the other. The character-by-character dissection was specily golden.

 

[AOS-]

I just finished the K-ON movie, and I enjoyed it.

Music sucked as always, but it's fun to watch with those dumb moments Yui has. Language barrier moments are always funny. If I'm not mistaken, the movie takes place near the end of their senior year, and the band take a 5-day trip to London. I was expecting more sightseeing, but I guess it wasn't significant.

 

[Loliblade ver2]

What I was getting at is why does Madoka's potential increase every single time? After 9000 time loops, her potential would be 9000 more times more powerful than like the 50th time loop. The explanation that just because she's the center of each timeline makes you wonder.

As sly said, this was explained.

Spoiler

It's not just that she's the center of each timeline, it's that the continuous amounts of overwhelming grief surrounding her in each and every single timeline come to a head with her. Homura made her the single most important and most powerful mahou shoujo because of grief. Grief is the base of the witches, and the reason wishes need to be made. Mami underwent grief in the crash, she wished for life. Sayaka wanted to help another person, her grief was more selfless than anything. Kyouko was also the same way, her family suffered and she wished for a miracle fix(that made her experience more grief and jaded her). But anyway, Homura's constant travelling made her the focal point of all the universes. Whenever that amount of grief and destruction was reached, whenever the suffering came to a head and Homura had NO way of saving Madoka from her inevitable fate, that's when she travelled. All the timelines converged on Madoka and what happens to her, the overwhelming grief Homura, her and every single person around her(including her friends) wrapped around her like black threads of fate. That's where her potential comes from.

 

[TheCorvette]

No, it's pointless to bring up Endless Eight because you only cared about the length and how it's the same content. You already know that I don't agree with the length, but you grossly misinterpreted it's content by being so engulfed with the fact that it's the same content with slight differences that you only skimmed the surface.

So I'm not allowed to have any thoughts on it?

There is a point yes, though people interpret the purpose of the arc differently. Many say it was to make you angry, that's it. You're frustrated, and the movie rids you of frustration, and made it better for them as a result. Others say it was to make you suffer like Yuki, and taking pity on Yuki during the movie makes it better.

Hell, an avid Haruhi fan told me they only made Endless Eight as long as it was because there was nothing to adapt before Disappearance, and that's the only reason why the arc exists really in the anime, and why they replayed all of season 1, to buy time.

My personal verdict on how Endless Eight will affect my experience with the movie, my frustration will probably be washed away. Yuki having emotions will serve a purpose and make for an enjoyable experience, but my rage for Endless Eight drowns it out.

Also just to clarify something, didn't you say that Disappearance occurred in the novels before Endless Eight, or am I remembering incorrectly, and am being an idiot?

What came first, the chicken or the egg? That's the kind of question you're asking about the witches and magical girls.

Which makes it a plot hole.

To have a chicken, you need an egg, and to have the egg, you need the chicken. How does one appear first?

However in the show there should be some explanation since there's magic in the show. We need to know more about Kyuubey as well.

See? You say that Madoka isn't the first to deconstruct the magical girl genre but you yourself can't even come up with information backing your claims. Your claim is baseless.

So, am I supposed to say it is? How can I prove if it's the first or not if I haven't seen every magical girl show before it?

Don't answer my question with a question.

Your feeble mind can't even see it. Even though it's like five posts down from what you linked.

I stated there, that by original I meant not adapted from manga or light novel. It is original in the sense that it is an original work.

What you are interpreting my original is as innovative. Clearly explained. Sailor Moon, Nanoha, and Card Captor Sakura, from what I watched, does not use Time Travel, interstellar magical wish granting beings, or saving the faith of the universe through killing magical girls and harvesting their grief as plot devices.

So there's my proof. Where's yours?

Ah, so you meant original as in not an adaption.

Also, those aren't all the magical girl shows out there. You can't prove it until you've seen everything. Going by what you said, it's the only one you've seen that utilizes it, but it doesn't mean it's the first show to do stuff like deconstructing the genre.

Ayumu's comedy is not cute comedy. Does Ayumu fantasizing about Yuu make you go DAWWWWW? Nichijou, Lucky Star, Strawberry Marshmallow, Acchi Kocchi, Azumanga Daioh, Yuru Yuri, Yotsuba & Shinryaku! Ikamusume are cute comedy.

Yes, yes it did.

See, you're doing it again. I'm trying to understand your opinion, but you bring up all sorts of crap, without ever explaining yourself.

The problem is I have great difficulty explaining myself as to why I find show X better than show Y other than "The characters were better, and so was the story.", far more than the average person. You saw how I struggled to explain why I think Madoka is good (That post was my best attempt at explaining myself about the show ever). I said it had interesting concepts and characters, but how? How is it interesting? How is the story compelling? What are good about the elements that make the story compelling? How well assembled are they?

Basically I have difficulty doing what AOS- asks like right here. You can tell from just my reviews alone.

So what am I to do? I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Not allowed to watch anything? Not allowed to enjoy anything? Not allowed to have a single thought? People are entitled to their opinion.

And it's not pointless trying to see the other side. Try applying that logic to other things, like war. According to your logic, it's pointless to see what it's like to have another country invade yours and kill it's citizens.

Not in all cases, but this one it is. I read your responses, and I have difficulty understanding your opinion. How can you find Madoka a masterpiece?

No amount of explaining will get through to me (Just like no matter what explanation I could give you, you won't accept me liking various shows over Madoka), and I have to accept I won't be able to see why people find Madoka a masterpiece, just like how I fail to see why people consider Steins;Gate (A show I found excellent-so we don't go "You find it ****?") a masterpiece. This doesn't however mean I'm wrong, just like how you're not wrong for finding Okami-San bad. It didn't fit your criteria for what was good.

There are things that are beyond our comprehension. I know many who have explained why they find Deadman Wonderland awesome, but I fail to see it.

Random action, lack of cohesion, not very well developed characters (The development is decent), and more things.

How can you say that you're open minded if you don't try to understand our opinions? You just hear it and leave it, that's not understanding.

I try, but I can't accept the characters in Madoka being that good. I fail to see how people can find them that good, no matter how many times I reread their responses, or how much they explain themselves.

Though it's not like I can't for everything...

Let's take, Rurouni Kenshin: Reflection. I love it, but I see the hate.

People find Kenshin TV to be about atoning for Kenshin's sins, but in Reflection, he's just a loser wandering around, suffering from a weird sickness that even the creators don't know about. Death is the only peace for him. The ending wasn't happy at all, he dies. It's what made people rage, the fact it's not a happy ending, so death is the only atonement as the cross-shaped scar disappears after he dies. Put simply, they feel it bastardized everything that Kenshin TV is all about, especially if they had seen Trust & Betrayal.

Bleach is easy as hell. It depends on what flaws you're able to forgive, such as the horrible pacing, the trolling, and Kubo's inability to explain things that need explaining.

You're seriously comparing yourself to Lain?

I'm just wondering if this is similar. I haven't seen the debate, so I can't comment, but for it to go that long (It was like 1 or 2 pages on max posts per page according to Loli), something must have happened.

[Edit]Found it (This probably seems like it), as I remember Loli saying it happened shortly before I joined. Let's see how it is.
[Edit2]Read the entire argument, and it actually seems like what this argument would be like if I was capable of explaining myself to the fullest. BTW, I'm starting to see a bit better why Lain didn't find S;G good as the rest of us, but I fail to see why it would be the second half that makes the show almost a mediocrity. No matter how many times I read his arguments, I just can't see how it's possible.

Though one thing is for sure, I would be toast in that argument because I have difficulty explaining myself.

As sly said, this was explained.

Spoiler

It's not just that she's the center of each timeline, it's that the continuous amounts of overwhelming grief surrounding her in each and every single timeline come to a head with her. Homura made her the single most important and most powerful mahou shoujo because of grief. Grief is the base of the witches, and the reason wishes need to be made. Mami underwent grief in the crash, she wished for life. Sayaka wanted to help another person, her grief was more selfless than anything. Kyouko was also the same way, her family suffered and she wished for a miracle fix(that made her experience more grief and jaded her). But anyway, Homura's constant travelling made her the focal point of all the universes. Whenever that amount of grief and destruction was reached, whenever the suffering came to a head and Homura had NO way of saving Madoka from her inevitable fate, that's when she travelled. All the timelines converged on Madoka and what happens to her, the overwhelming grief Homura, her and every single person around her(including her friends) wrapped around her like black threads of fate. That's where her potential comes from.

But why can't it be Homura? Homura suffered far more than Madoka. Madoka's suffering is absolutely nothing compared to Homura's, absolutely nothing.

Spoiler

Oh boo hoo, my friends are fighting each other, and dying. I don't remember seeing it happen a bunch of times.

Well how's about I saw my best friend suffering a crapload of times, and I saw her transform into a witch every time, and I would have to kill her to save the universe?

And if you couldn't tell, Homura>Madoka

 

[Sly Guy]

Which makes it a plot hole.

To have a chicken, you need an egg, and to have the egg, you need the chicken. How does one appear first?

Human experiments.

Also, those aren't all the magical girl shows out there. You can't prove it until you've seen everything. Going by what you said, it's the only one you've seen that utilizes it, but it doesn't mean it's the first show to do stuff like deconstructing the genre.

I'm not going to waste my time and watch all 180 different entries in that genre just to prove something to you. Your claim that Madoka isn't the first to deconstruct the magical girl genre is still baseless. Don't even bother trying to twist this. Post your proof. Prove me wrong, or is it that hard to do?

You can't deny that when people mention Magical Girl, you think something along this. I know I thought Madoka would have been something like this. The main thing about Madoka is that it's dark.

There are things that are beyond our comprehension. I know many who have explained why they find Deadman Wonderland awesome, but I fail to see it.

Of course there will be things that are beyond my comprehension, but your posts are not one of them.

Random action, lack of cohesion, not very well developed characters (The development is decent), and more things.I try, but I can't accept the characters in Madoka being that good. I fail to see how people can find them that good, no matter how many times I reread their responses, or how much they explain themselves.

That's because the important aspects of the show flew completely over your head. Cano put it the best. Simply put, it was too much for you to comprehend.

Read the entire argument, and it actually seems like what this argument would be like if I was capable of explaining myself to the fullest. BTW, I'm starting to see a bit better why Lain didn't find S;G good as the rest of us, but I fail to see why it would be the second half that makes the show almost a mediocrity. No matter how many times I read his arguments, I just can't see how it's possible.

Though one thing is for sure, I would be toast in that argument because I have difficulty explaining myself.

Exactly, so stop trying to argue with me and everyone else.

But why can't it be Homura? Homura suffered far more than Madoka. Madoka's suffering is absolutely nothing compared to Homura's, absolutely nothing.

Spoiler

Oh boo hoo, my friends are fighting each other, and dying. I don't remember seeing it happen a bunch of times.

Well how's about I saw my best friend suffering a crapload of times, and I saw her transform into a witch every time, and I would have to kill her to save the universe?

And if you couldn't tell, Homura>Madoka

I know I didn't say Madoka's character is better than Homura's. But Homura definitely steals the show for me. Madoka's character in the end suffers more than Homura has though. Madoka gets the most development also.

 

[TheCorvette]

I'm not going to waste my time and watch all 180 different entries in that genre just to prove something to you.

You can't deny that when people mention Magical Girl, you think something along this. I know I thought Madoka would have been something like this. The main thing about Madoka is that it's dark.

Exactly, so the claim remains without proof until it is done.

Also yes, that's what people think. Madoka was one of those uncommon shows that breaks away from the norm, making it an uncommon show. Not to mention it's a deconstruction of the genre, and it definitely rekindled interest in the genre. Though if Madoka was made say in like 2002, it wouldn't have been as big as it is now.

Whether or not Madoka will be considered revolutionary remains up to the test of time. It probably is ground-breaking (I can't confirm this again until I see everything prior. What did Madoka do that had never really popped up before?), just not as much as the masses think.

Of course there will be things that are beyond my comprehension, but your posts are not one of them.

Oh really now? You said you're trying to understand, so my posts and thoughts aren't beyond your comprehension? You haven't understood why I find certain shows better than Madoka from my posts. Though it's never going to happen because of my inability to explain things to the fullest.

That's because the important aspects of the show flew completely over your head. Cano put it the best.

Not sure if you thought the parts I was talking about Deadman Wonderland (Random action, lack of cohesion, not very well developed characters (The development is decent), and more things.) were about Madoka .

That's how that show (Deadman Wonderland) looks to me.

But anyway with Madoka, whether or not they really flew over someone's head is up to debate. Take a look at that argument over Steins;Gate for example.

Concepts didn't really fly over people's heads. Lain was just in the minority with his feelings, like I am here, someone who didn't find Madoka a masterpiece, or excellent. I found it quite good (8/10 rating), but that's the extreme minority here.

Exactly, so stop trying.

Then why keep wanting me to explain myself? This whole argument happened because I didn't explain myself in the beginning, and you guys were asking me to explain myself so hard, and kept going "But you didn't even explain yourself...".

I know I didn't say Madoka's character is better than Homura's. But Homura definitely steals the show for me. Madoka's character in the end suffers more than Homura has though. Madoka gets the most development also.

Oh how on earth can she possibly have suffered more? Oh how she conveniently is not able to remember it happening OVER 9,000 times, while Homura sees the same thing and remembers it every single time.

She was destroyed completely by seeing that stuff, very similar to how Okabe felt in Steins;Gate over

Spoiler

seeing Mayuri die and die and die so many times, it crushed his soul completely.

Homura

Spoiler

suffered so much, seeing Madoka turn into a witch so many times, watched her suffer on the sidelines so many times seeing as her friends die, fight, and turn into witches, failed to prevent her from suffering and turning into a witch so many times, and would have to be forced to kill her own very best friend just to save the universe. It just didn't show on her face because of what those events did to her.

How on earth did she have that mental breakdown in the final episode? Because she had so much suffering that turned her into a very cold, strict person, much different from how she's portrayed in those first few timeloops in episode 10. She reached her breaking point where she couldn't keep it in anymore, and I'm heavily surprised at how she managed to keep it in for so long.

 

[Sly Guy]

Exactly, so the claim remains without proof until it is done.

See, you're dodging it. You can't prove me wrong. If it's as simple as you make it sound, prove me wrong. Do it.

Oh really now? You said you're trying to understand, so my posts and thoughts aren't beyond your comprehension? You haven't understood why I find certain shows better than Madoka from my posts. Though it's never going to happen because of my inability to explain things to the fullest.

Oh yes I did, and so did everyone else. You don't understand Madoka's deeper elements. Not. One. Bit.

But anyway with Madoka, whether or not they really flew over someone's head is up to debate. Take a look at that argument over Steins;Gate for example.

It isn't up for debate. You posted your opinions on Madoka's characters and you missed a mass majority of the important concepts. You inadvertently told us that the important concepts flew over your head by not mentioning them at all.

Concepts didn't really fly over people's heads. Lain was just in the minority with his feelings, like I am here, someone who didn't find Madoka a masterpiece, or excellent. I found it quite good (8/10 rating), but that's the extreme minority here.

Then why keep wanting me to explain myself? This whole argument happened because I didn't explain myself in the beginning, and you guys were asking me to explain myself so hard, and kept going "But you didn't even explain yourself...".

How do you expect the weight of your opinions to be worth anything if it is backed by nothing?

Oh how on earth can she possibly have suffered more? Oh how she conveniently is not able to remember it happening OVER 9,000 times, while Homura sees the same thing and remembers it every single time.

She was destroyed completely by seeing that stuff, very similar to how Okabe felt in Steins;Gate over

Spoiler

seeing Mayuri die and die and die so many times, it crushed his soul completely.

Homura

Spoiler

suffered so much, seeing Madoka turn into a witch so many times, watched her suffer on the sidelines so many times seeing as her friends die, fight, and turn into witches, failed to prevent her from suffering and turning into a witch so many times, and would have to be forced to kill her own very best friend just to save the universe. It just didn't show on her face because of what those events did to her.

How on earth did she have that mental breakdown in the final episode? Because she had so much suffering that turned her into a very cold, strict person, much different from how she's portrayed in those first few timeloops in episode 10. She reached her breaking point where she couldn't keep it in anymore, and I'm heavily surprised at how she managed to keep it in for so long.

Oh look here, another important concept that completely flew over your head that you failed to comprehend.

I said in the end Madoka suffers more. She ultimately sacrifices her physical being for Homura and everyone elses sake. She also suffers more because she discovers the lengths Homura went through for her sake across all timelines.

 

[TheCorvette]

See, you're dodging it. You can't prove me wrong. If it's as simple as you make it sound, prove me wrong. Do it.

But I can't prove you right either. We don't have the evidence to back up the claim. I can't prove you right or wrong. The statement Madoka was the first to do all of this holds no value from both of us.

Oh yes I did, and so did everyone else. You don't understand Madoka's deeper elements. Not. One. Bit.

Oh, so you do, and it's a fact these are deeper elements? You're forgetting how the definition isn't the same for everyone.

It isn't up for debate. You posted your opinions on Madoka's characters and you missed a mass majority of the important concepts. You inadvertently told us that the important concepts flew over your head by not mentioning them at all.

Oh, so they're facts? The interesting concepts are facts, and are interesting to everyone! This is as bad as the Naruto fans who say things went over your head if you make statements like "Oh, the chracters don't stay dead! They never kill the main characters.".

And honestly, this argument is looking more similar to the Steins;Gate one where people thought a whole lot of stuff flew over Lain's head.

How do you expect the weight of your opinions to be worth anything if it is backed by nothing?

They're still merely nothing but opinions. So, am I supposed to have worthless opinions on everything?

Oh look here, another important concept that completely flew over your head that you failed to comprehend.

I said in the end Madoka suffers more. She ultimately sacrifices her physical being for Homura and everyone elses sake. She also suffers more because she discovers the lengths Homura went through for her sake across all timelines.

Homura's was built up more though. Seriously, we're talking about the girl who saw her friend who suffered countless times, and remembers every little bit. Who knows how long she was doing the time traveling.

Madoka may have thrown her physical being away, and seen the lengths Homura went through, but it didn't match Homura. Homura's suffering was over countless timelines. Tell me, what would make you suffer more, seeing your best friend die, turn into a monster, and destroy everything, and you've seen this lets say 1 million times, or, you throwing your physical being away to save the universe, and discovering your friend suffered?

Madoka in the final episode was happy, and didn't shed a single tear. Homura was on the ground, having a break-down.

 

[Loliblade ver2]

But the grief was centered AROUND Madoka. Homura had already made her wish. The extreme amounts of grief around Madoka and her wish gave her potential. She wasn't the one suffering per say, but she had to watch every single one of her friends suffer and Homura's suffering was centered around her.

 

[nk4e]

I stopped watching Anime for ponies..


#kappa

 

[TheCorvette]

But the grief was centered AROUND Madoka. Homura had already made her wish. The extreme amounts of grief around Madoka and her wish gave her potential. She wasn't the one suffering per say, but she had to watch every single one of her friends suffer and Homura's suffering was centered around her.

But it still goes into her not actually suffering. If it's around her, but she's not seeing it, how is it worse than Homura who has a mental breakdown in the final episode?

She was crying as she saw she failed to prevent Madoka from becoming a magical girl again. Her soul was completely crushed after that because there was only so much longer she could keep her tough act up.

Madoka in the final episode is all happy, not shedding any actual tears, and thanks people.

 

[Loliblade ver2]

*facepalm*


You know, I'm just not even going to bother anymore. But the point is Madoka is the center of the grief and timelines. She wasn't necessarily happy in the final episode, she just wanted to save everyone.

 

[nk4e]

*facepalm*


You know, I'm just not even going to bother anymore. But the point is Madoka is the center of the grief and timelines. She wasn't necessarily happy in the final episode, she just wanted to save everyone.

The Nice guy concept, Pleasing everyone but himself.

 

[TheCorvette]

*facepalm*


You know, I'm just not even going to bother anymore. But the point is Madoka is the center of the grief and timelines. She wasn't necessarily happy in the final episode, she just wanted to save everyone.

And she was happy with what she did. She was happy she saved everyone.

 

[RACECAR]

I stopped watching Anime for ponies..


#kappa

 

[Sly Guy]

But I can't prove you right either. We don't have the evidence to back up the claim. I can't prove you right or wrong. The statement Madoka was the first to do all of this holds no value from both of us.Oh, so you do, and it's a fact these are deeper elements? You're forgetting how the definition isn't the same for everyone.

I have more weight to it than you do as I've seen more magical girl shows than you have.

And if you can't prove me wrong or right, why do you keep trying to argue it?

And this isn't about everyone's opinion, this is about you.

Oh, so they're facts? The interesting concepts are facts, and are interesting to everyone! This is as bad as the Naruto fans who say things went over your head if you make statements like "Oh, the chracters don't stay dead! They never kill the main characters.".

Yes, it's a fact that you understood only half of Madoka and the characters because you posted all that you knew and we pointed out that you completely missed many important scenarios in the series.

And honestly, this argument is looking more similar to the Steins;Gate one where people thought a whole lot of stuff flew over Lain's head.They're still merely nothing but opinions. So, am I supposed to have worthless opinions on everything?

This is not that like that discussion. Lain understood Steins;Gate and just didn't like it. You understood barely anything about Madoka and are trying to argue with weightless opinions.

Homura's was built up more though. Seriously, we're talking about the girl who saw her friend who suffered countless times, and remembers every little bit. Who knows how long she was doing the time traveling.

Madoka may have thrown her physical being away, and seen the lengths Homura went through, but it didn't match Homura. Homura's suffering was over countless timelines. Tell me, what would make you suffer more, seeing your best friend die, turn into a monster, and destroy everything, and you've seen this lets say 1 million times, or, you throwing your physical being away to save the universe, and discovering your friend suffered?

Madoka in the final episode was happy, and didn't shed a single tear. Homura was on the ground, having a break-down.

You still don't understand it, do you?

Spoiler

Madoka turned into a witch in the end, which means that she has suffered massive amounts of grief. Since Madoka became a God, she also saw what Homura has been through for her across all the timelines. Madoka says it right out that she has seen Homura suffer through all the timelines

Madoka has seen Homura suffer across all timelines, and also every dying magical girl.

Homura lost her best friend, Madoka lost EVERYTHING. All of her friends, her mother, father, little brother and her physical being.

What have I learned from all this? Shows with deeper, more complex concepts are too much for you to understand and comprehend, whereas mindless shows like Kore wa Zombie desu ka? are so much easier for you to understand.

You don't know when to end an argument. You just keep digging a hole, hitting rock bottom, and continue to dig yourself through.

You back up your claims with baseless opinions and playing the everyone-has-a-different-view, everyone-has-a-bias cards.

This is not about everyone, this is about you. This is about your opinion, an opinion which you can easily make but ultimately fail to back up your claim.

Do us all a favor and keep your outlandish opinions to yourself. Don't write a check your ass can't cash.

This discussion is over. If you reply to this, it just shows how foolishly stubborn you are.

 

[TheCorvette]

I have more weight to it than you do as I've seen more magical girl shows than you have.

And if you can't prove me wrong or right, why do you keep trying to argue it?

And this isn't about everyone's opinion, this is about you.

Because I find it stupid when someone tries to claim something is original, as in never been done before when they haven't seen everything. You don't see me calling these Shonens I watch original now do you? They take tips from Dragon Ball Z, and as I heard, it took tips from Fist of the North Star (Which I intend to watch).

Also want to know what magical girl shows I've seen?
-Sasami: Magical Girls Club
-Sasami: Magical Girls Club 2
-Sailor Moon
-Puella Magi Madoka Magica (I have to include it obviously)
-Pretty Cure (Season 1)

I haven't seen a whole lot yes.

Yes, it's a fact that you understood only half of Madoka and the characters because you posted all that you knew and we pointed out that you completely missed many important scenarios in the series.

You're forgetting how people see things differently. So if they're not seeing them the way you guys do, they're automatically wrong? I wonder how you'd survive being on AniDB's forums arguing with people over Madoka...

This is not that like that discussion. Lain understood Steins;Gate and just didn't like it. You understood barely anything about Madoka and are trying to argue with weightless opinions.

Then explain yourself in that argument. You said he didn't get it in multiple ways.

Also I see you forgot how Lain liked Steins;Gate in the end. Why would he recommend it?

You still don't understand it, do you?

Spoiler

Madoka turned into a witch in the end, which means that she has suffered massive amounts of grief. Since Madoka became a God, she also saw what Homura has been through for her across all the timelines. Madoka says it right out that she has seen Homura suffer through all the timelines

Madoka has seen Homura suffer across all timelines, and also every dying magical girl.

Homura lost her best friend, Madoka lost EVERYTHING. All of her friends, her mother, father, little brother and her physical being.

Spoiler

But did Madoka truly suffer? She would have been crying when she found out, but instead she doesn't show signs of suffering after she goes into God mode. But as she's become a deity, she can't suffer, as a deity doesn't suffer. She may have lost everything, but did she truly suffer? If she did, she'd be like she was earlier in the show.

Homura showed signs of suffering the entire time during the ending, and those timeloops. Who knows how many Grief Seeds she needed to keep her grief under control?

Also Homura lost her friends as well. She became friends with the other magical girls. Not to mention, she's no longer with her family. When was the last time Homura even saw them?

Lastly, what would Madoka seeing every magical girl suffering make her suffer? She doesn't even know them at all. In the end we have Madoka clones relieve them of their pain by getting rid of their power.

What have I learned from all this? Shows with deeper, more complex concepts are too much for you to understand and comprehend, whereas mindless shows like Kore wa Zombie desu ka? are so much easier for you to understand.

Then explain Fate/Zero, Steins;Gate, The Tatami Galaxy, and Death Note?

All those I find better than Madoka.

I could explain the complexity of The Tatami Galaxy the best, but that would ruin the experience completely for anyone that dares attempt to check it out after reading what I would say. Spoilers completely kill the show.

You don't know when to end an argument. You just keep digging a hole, hitting rock bottom, and continue to dig yourself through.

Because I'm not going to bother giving up.

You back up your claims with baseless opinions and playing the everyone-has-a-different-view, everyone-has-a-bias cards.

However, that is how things are. It doesn't mean I'm wrong about how I feel on certain shows.

We're allowed to feel how we feel about certain shows. It doesn't make anyone superior.

This is not about everyone, this is about you. This is about your opinion, an opinion which you can easily make but ultimately fail to back up your claim.

Do us all a favor and keep your outlandish opinions to yourself. Don't write a check your ass can't cash.

So, I can't post anything anymore? Great, no more "I found this show good like everyone else." even. No "Madoka is better than X show." even. I do wonder what this discussion would be like if I was praising Madoka like it's God, to the point it annoys you guys, very avid fans of the franchise.

This discussion is over. If you reply to this, it just shows how foolishly stubborn you are.

It shows I'm willing to keep sticking with what I believe.

Also the discussion doesn't end until one person stops replying.

 

[Sly Guy]

Oh. My. Gawh.

You really are as stupid as I thought you were!

No, I take that back, your stupidity has surpassed my expectations. Congratulations!

I will celebrate your stupidity by posting Madoka images. I would post Infinite Stratos and Kore wa Zombie desu ka?, but they both are only good for their ecchi and the images wouldn't be safe for here.

 

[AOS-]

When the-

was this during a flashback scene?

 

[Cano]

Ugh, I'm sure I'm gonna hate myself later for this, but here we go...

Alright.Madoka Magica didn't do saving the universe, or dark-themed Mahou Shoujo first... Then stuff about if Madoka is original or not, or if it did something before or after other shows or not, and on and on with this trash for several posts. Sorry, had to make it smaller.

Er, it doesn't matter in the end. It is absolutely, completely and pointlessly irrelevant what show did what and etc. It all comes down to this: it doesn't matter the firsts, the dos or dont's, in the end, Madoka works. I can tell you for sure that Madoka isn't a pioneer in several aspects for which it's praised as being "groundbreaking", but it doesn't matter. Whatever elements it may have incorporated from other magic girl shows, IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER. In the end, the show made them work together in a way that was maybe not innovative -you can hardly invent anything new in such a genre- but it made it refreshing and awesome to watch in it's whole.

If you are really trying to dissect Madoka for it's "originality" or "innovation", I really, really laugh at you. It would merely prove that your point of view of something you say you enjoy (anime) is so... egh, to use a word that may backfire onto me in the future, but for the life of me I cannot find a better way to describe it at the moment (and those of you english-speaking people, if you at all understand what I'm trying to say here, help me out with a better expression, as I do have language limitations that keep me from expressing myself properly, unlike TC, who's just a bit dumb -sorry-) technical and cold, I just can't see why you'd like it.

In fact, it seems like all that matters for you are your MAL and the scores and all that stuff; I don't think I've never seen you speaking about a show without trying to technically explain it. With something as mindless as anime (come on, in the end they're just cartoons, altough I don't think you'll follow me on this; don't try to go serious on this with me either, you'll be ignored), one really wonders. Of course, I hardly pay attention to the walls of text you post, so I may be wrong with this, but it has always been the impression you've given me.

And then there's...

Spoiler

Oh boo hoo, my friends are fighting each other, and dying. I don't remember seeing it happen a bunch of times.

Spoiler

Oh how she conveniently is not able to remember it happening OVER 9,000 times, while Homura sees the same thing and remembers it every single time.

Man, you really, REALLY missed much more than I thought. I am in fact aamazed you keep trying with this. You really did miss like half the show or something like that.

Seriously, stick to Kore Wa whateveritis Zombie. Or sure, go watch stuff you can't comprehend, but don't try to bash on it if you haven't really gotten a bit of it, then expect people to don't lol at you.

 

[TheCorvette]

And then there's...

Man, you really, REALLY missed much more than I thought. I am in fact aamazed you keep trying with this. You really did miss like half the show or something like that.

Seriously, stick to Kore Wa whateveritis Zombie. Or sure, go watch stuff you can't comprehend, but don't try to bash on it if you haven't really gotten a bit of it, then expect people to don't lol at you.

It wasn't bashing on the show (Madoka is by no means a bad show, but like every show, it has pros and cons), that part was on who suffered more, Madoka, or Homura.

Spoiler

Madoka may be able to see at the end (But she's become a deity, and thus is unable to suffer about seeing that), but it's not recalling. Homura recalls every single bit.

Why is Madoka thanking people, making sacrifices without complaining, not crying, changing the world, while Homura is on the ground, having a breakdown at seeing how she failed again at preventing her best friend from becoming a magical girl? Let's throw in a visual on Homura even shall we?

And since we're on this, who do you think suffered more, Homura, or Madoka?

When the-

was this during a flashback scene?

Probably the PSP game Sly was talking a lot about.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

No I think this was a flashback of Kyouko's past during the chat she had with Sayaka.

 

[TheCorvette]

That's what it looked like, but I don't remember them showing that.

 

[ZEROX]

About SAO latest episode...
I do felt it's a bit rush.

Spoiler

WTF? Sachi just do one episode appearance before dead?!
This episode was way too short to explain & express the relationship & friendship (or mebbeh love) between the clan and protagonist. Plus, how the heck he get into the guild that easily? At least show some flashback of him saving the guild or yaddayadda. But meh, some said it's according to light novel...i dunno, haven't read it yet and don't want to.

I just want Sachi back...for awhile at least.

 

[Cano]

It wasn't bashing on the show (Madoka is by no means a bad show, but like every show, it has pros and cons), that part was on who suffered more, Madoka, or Homura.

Spoiler

Madoka may be able to see at the end (But she's become a deity, and thus is unable to suffer about seeing that), but it's not recalling. Homura recalls every single bit.

Why is Madoka thanking people, making sacrifices without complaining, not crying, changing the world, while Homura is on the ground, having a breakdown at seeing how she failed again at preventing her best friend from becoming a magical girl? Let's throw in a visual on Homura even shall we?

And since we're on this, who do you think suffered more, Homura, or Madoka?

Spoiler

I love how you can absolutely assure that deitys do not suffer from anything. Even the bible would prove you wrong. From that base, your point becomes absolutely moot and, once again, I go "why bother?"

I do really wonder why we keep falling for discussing with you when it always ends up like this.

For the record, Homura;

Spoiler

Madoka's suffering would be more deep and massive, but she knows she can make a difference, even if she has to loose everything. Homura, on the other hand, was never sure if she could make it. To her suffering you'd have to add the absolute uncertainty of if she would ever suceed, wich at this point would have been fueled more and more by the countless repetitions.

yet again, it isn't relevant because of the way the show end, which also seems to go trough your mind like whoosh.

 

[TheCorvette]

Spoiler

I love how you can absolutely assure that deitys do not suffer from anything. Even the bible would prove you wrong. From that base, your point becomes absolutely moot and, once again, I go "why bother?"

Spoiler

They don't suffer mentally and emotionally, as in, not like Madoka was suffering earlier in the show from seeing her friends become witches, die, and fight. Tell me, does Madoka look like she's suffering if she's glad she's sacrificing everything, and glad she can save everyone? Hell, she's even sure she'll see Homura again someday.
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/...ts/PuellaMagiMadokaMagicaEpisode12Screen4.png
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/...ts/PuellaMagiMadokaMagicaEpisode12Screen3.png
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/...ts/PuellaMagiMadokaMagicaEpisode12Screen2.png
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/...ts/PuellaMagiMadokaMagicaEpisode12Screen5.png
When she became a witch, it was merely to destroy it, as her wish was to erase all witches from existence, including the one she could become.

I do really wonder why we keep falling for discussing with you when it always ends up like this.

For the record, Homura;

Spoiler

Madoka's suffering would be more deep and massive, but she knows she can make a difference, even if she has to loose everything. Homura, on the other hand, was never sure if she could make it. To her suffering you'd have to add the absolute uncertainty of if she would ever suceed, wich at this point would have been fueled more and more by the countless repetitions.

Spoiler

And the uncertainty is despair, which is part of suffering.

yet again, it isn't relevant because of the way the show end, which also seems to go trough your mind like whoosh.

How is it irrelevant to the show's ending?

Spoiler

The show ends with these things happening.

1. Madoka becomes a magical girl.
2. Homura ends up having a breakdown after seeing how she failed again at preventing her best friend becoming a magical girl. She hit her breaking point.
3. Madoka becomes the most powerful being in the universe, and is omnipotent.
4. We see the result of her wish to get rid of all witches. The witch they were fighting (I can't for the life of me remember how to spell its name) ends up being destroyed. Madoka clones are sent throughout history, removing all grief from every magical girl, taking it away, but she herself doesn't suffer from taking on their grief.
5. Madoka took Homura along a bit for the ride so she can speak to her. It's why Homura is able to remember Madoka after the reset.
6. Madoka goes to see the others like Sayaka, but later, we see in those other timelines, the girls have completely forgotten who Madoka is because she no longer existed.
7. Madoka has been completely forgotten by everyone except Kyuubey and Homura.
8. Homura goes to fight the threat that replaced witches.

 

[Cano]

How is it irrelevant to the show's ending?

Spoiler

The show ends with these things happening.

1. Madoka becomes a magical girl.
2. Homura ends up having a breakdown after seeing how she failed again at preventing her best friend becoming a magical girl. She hit her breaking point.
3. Madoka becomes the most powerful being in the universe, and is omnipotent.
4. We see the result of her wish to get rid of all witches. The witch they were fighting (I can't for the life of me remember how to spell its name) ends up being destroyed. Madoka clones are sent throughout history, removing all grief from every magical girl, taking it away, but she herself doesn't suffer from taking on their grief.
5. Madoka took Homura along a bit for the ride so she can speak to her. It's why Homura is able to remember Madoka after the reset.
6. Madoka goes to see the others like Sayaka, but later, we see in those other timelines, the girls have completely forgotten who Madoka is because she no longer existed.
7. Madoka has been completely forgotten by everyone except Kyuubey and Homura.
8. Homura goes to fight the threat that replaced witches.

Oh dear. Thanks for proving my point. To heck with this, yet again. I'm done.

 

[Loliblade ver2]

About SAO latest episode...
I do felt it's a bit rush.

Spoiler

WTF? Sachi just do one episode appearance before dead?!
This episode was way too short to explain & express the relationship & friendship (or mebbeh love) between the clan and protagonist. Plus, how the heck he get into the guild that easily? At least show some flashback of him saving the guild or yaddayadda. But meh, some said it's according to light novel...i dunno, haven't read it yet and don't want to.

I just want Sachi back...for awhile at least.

It WAS a bit rushed, but I'm alright with it. Just a random thing to note as Kirito progresses on his journey. Bit of a character development episode.

 

[AOS-]

I didn't think it was rushed a whole lot. I just think SAO isn't the show that will want to explain side characters over the duration of several episodes. The pacing of the show is already moving fairly quick, 1 month per episode? (not a spoiler), or maybe the time line is on a much grander scale and that months were seemingly miniscule?