The Last of Us Part II
- Thread starter Techy
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I bought the first one 5 years ago on PS4, still haven't got half way through it thanks to rocket league taking over everything for a few years. So from a storyline POV and character familiarity the new game doesnt affect me. However watching how Nauggty Dog have been behaving, saying you need an open mind to play the game, you're a bigot if you're not happy with the storyline ( now imagine if it were the religion of peace they painted as homophobes, but no its gamers that are bigots) mean there's no way in hell I'll give then a single penny. Also I think I'm currently just no longer interested in games where I cant play for 10-15 minutes.
- 7,755
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- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
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- 3,334
- NJ
- koszak27
I'm certainly coming from it in a different way. I loved the first game but as you say, it's hard to put the creators' agendas and politics aside. They have almost an impossible task in creating a game that is better than the first. Everything that I loved about the first game (the characters, the bonding of Ellie and Joel, the virus and just the world they created) can't be repeated in the sequel. The originality and initial exposure to everything is what was so great. Sure there's the ending to deal with and some loose ends to tie up but none of what made the first game amazing can be done again. If anything, they can appease the masses in giving them a second game but they will likely tarnish some of what made the original such a success.
I want to say that I would buy the 2nd one just because I liked the first one so much, but I hesitate when I read about what you have brought up. I certainly don't enjoy politics interfering with my games. We deal with enough of that BS in real life.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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I guess I'll wait for the reviews and buy it if it's a good game.
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- Morgoth_666
So like we should for any game?
The only problem with that is a lot of reviews will be just as full of politics and opinion-pushing as the game supposedly is.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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So like we should for any game?
I probably would've ordered it without any reviews, but now I have to do a bit more work. It does seem like the game would have been better off without the "consulting". Will just have to see if the game is still good.
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- WhippingBoy
You're sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong about this, all of the reviews are positive (warning: video contains profanity).
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McLaren
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The thing that worries me most isn't the "Woke/SJW/etc." arguments being over-exaggerated. It's the growing report that the story, the thing I loved most about the 1st game, why it's one of my favorites to go back through, is just full of plot holes and bad writing. The review from SkillUp remarks that you could replace any of the characters with someone else, and nothing changes. There doesn't seem to be a multitude of different identities; there's no young, bright-innocent Ellie, no loner, careful-of-anyone Bill, or brotherly protector but wise cracking Henry, or even a "kind"-but-super-dark David. According to the review, everyone just becomes a bunch of ****ty people completely abandoning their old characteristics.
One of the plot points being mocked that I believe was discovered in a new 3-hour leak was the antagonist saying, "Guess?" to a main character even though they have no actual way of knowing who that person is. It's supposedly written like a cheesy villain line just thrown in there with no background to justify it.
Still going to play it, but really hoping there's more to the story. Sony is apparently being very strict on not mentioning certain names or a specific chunk of the game in reviews though. Also a lot of concern over the violence in the game.
One of the plot points being mocked that I believe was discovered in a new 3-hour leak was the antagonist saying, "Guess?" to a main character even though they have no actual way of knowing who that person is. It's supposedly written like a cheesy villain line just thrown in there with no background to justify it.
Still going to play it, but really hoping there's more to the story. Sony is apparently being very strict on not mentioning certain names or a specific chunk of the game in reviews though. Also a lot of concern over the violence in the game.
- 7,755
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
I think the woke agenda & the reportedly bad story with a lack of interesting characters, are inextricably linked. I don't think the anti-SJW arguments are exaggerated, but rather I think that people who don't really understand the warped ideology behind the woke mentality can't fully grasp the scope of it's influence. If you're a college/uni created idealogue & activist, a games developer, & one of your main motivations is to promote your propaganda, other aspects such as story can end up taking a back seat. Also, if you inject an unhealthy dose of identity politics into a story then the identity of the characters will inevitably suffer, because that ideology is inherently collectivist in nature & primarily sees people as groups, not individuals, which unfortunately can result in certain kinds of stereotyping of their respective characters.
I've been studying this leftist ideology & it's illogical rhetoric since last year, looking at as many different sides of the argument as I can find, & have to say that it's influence is far more wide spread, far-reaching, & indiseous than most people have yet to realise...
EDIT: if anyone out there is interested in trying to understand this ideology better & has 40 minutes to spare, I recommend you watch this (the talk starts at 6:30).
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- 1,725
- PletdeKoe
Eh.... So if I write a book about a 20 political activist, in first person. Deliberately did my research on the topic the main character feels strongly about, I’m making propaganda? Come on, a videogame tells a story about a person. Whatever the source of that story is still a story. The whole goal of such a story is to evoke a reaction from the reader. That fact you react so strongly clearly makes it a succes.
the whole reason people like stories is to have a reaction. Otherwise the entire horror-genre would not exist.
and excuse me, but if we react on movies the way you react on this game, would be like reacting to let’s say the movie Exorsist, that that film is terrible because it supports the devil and his works.....
it is a story about something. If you don’t enjoy the story, read something else...
the whole reason people like stories is to have a reaction. Otherwise the entire horror-genre would not exist.
and excuse me, but if we react on movies the way you react on this game, would be like reacting to let’s say the movie Exorsist, that that film is terrible because it supports the devil and his works.....
it is a story about something. If you don’t enjoy the story, read something else...
- 40,420
I dunno about all that, but Druckmann certainly seems like a colossal asshole, calling specific people out on Twitter who make fun of hyperbolic reviews to sick his followers on them; while he himself is so protected from rebuke from anyone by Sony that they even DMCA'd their own Twitter account for talking about the game before release.
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- 3,425
- Connecticut
- SPhilli
- SPhilli911
I have been trying my best to avoid spoilers and any detailed information about the game before I play it. The spoiler-free reviews seem promising to me and if it is some sort of political thing that is dividing people on the game... well I truly don't care one way or the other. It's a game and it can tell whatever story they want it too, I think.
I loved the first game, it was extremely emotional with top quality characters, acting and plot. I have high hopes for Part II and can't wait to play on Friday.
I loved the first game, it was extremely emotional with top quality characters, acting and plot. I have high hopes for Part II and can't wait to play on Friday.
DesertPenguin
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- DesertPenguin_
I don't know the details but I think the issues people have isn't so much directly political, just that the game/developers are putting in heavy handed social commentary and many people would prefer to simply have a video game be a video game.
- 1,004
- Madison, WI
- FerrariF1GT
- FerrariFan24
I know this will make the thread turn into Opinions & Current Events, but I’m going to say this:
There is no ‘woke/SJW/identity politics/far left’ ‘agenda/propaganda’ (or any political agenda, left or right, really) here ; it’s a private company making a video game, an art form (yes, I know that is controversial as well), how they see fit. Sony and Naughty Dog are private entities, so they have the right to create the game however they’d like, including making a character LGBTQ+ and revolving the story around that. As far as I know, they’re not infringing on anyone’s rights by doing this, so I have no issue with their design choices.
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Firehuntah
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- Firehuntah
So.. this just came in.
That's 3 days early, from bol.com here in the Netherlands. Usually they never ship before the actual release date. Mistake? I'm not complaining though.
Really love the steelbook of the Special Edition, looks beautiful! There's 2 discs, data and play disc. So this game is HUGE! 
Says 95 GB minimum on box.
Problem is, I can't play it just yet. Still replaying The Last Of Us part 1 to get a good feel of the story again. Been a few years since I last played it. Really can't wait though. I haven't seen anything from the trailers/gameplay/story videos yet, really want to experience everything in the game for the first time. It's going be to great!
That's 3 days early, from bol.com here in the Netherlands. Usually they never ship before the actual release date. Mistake? I'm not complaining though.
Really love the steelbook of the Special Edition, looks beautiful! There's 2 discs, data and play disc. So this game is HUGE! Says 95 GB minimum on box.
Problem is, I can't play it just yet. Still replaying The Last Of Us part 1 to get a good feel of the story again. Been a few years since I last played it. Really can't wait though. I haven't seen anything from the trailers/gameplay/story videos yet, really want to experience everything in the game for the first time.
It's going be to great!
ROAD_DOGG33J
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Probably a good read for anyone deciding on whether to purchase the game:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...last-of-us-part-2-review-scores/#35379d1576d9
This seems like a balanced take from IGN Japan:
Not quite sure if I want to buy now or wait. If I get a physical copy, it probably wouldn't be too much of a loss selling it after completion.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...last-of-us-part-2-review-scores/#35379d1576d9
This seems like a balanced take from IGN Japan:
Not quite sure if I want to buy now or wait. If I get a physical copy, it probably wouldn't be too much of a loss selling it after completion.
- 7,755
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- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
Same from Skill Up's review (spoiler level 3/10). Even though he didn't personally like it, he talks about the good points as well as the bad.
👍
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ROAD_DOGG33J
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I'm wary of the critic reviews, especially the numerous 10/10s handed out. Some are saying it is better than the original, which seems difficult to believe. I'm guessing it's like when GTA IV got 10s all across the board, and I turned out disappointed based on all the hype.
Right now metacritic has it at a 96, where as the 1st game is at a 95.
Right now metacritic has it at a 96, where as the 1st game is at a 95.
McLaren
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According to 1 YouTuber/former IGN journalist I follow, she feels the embargo is unfairly restrictive. She acknowledges it's to prevent spoilers, but it also keeps reviewers from pointing out "actual gameplay flaws". I wonder how much this restriction plays a role in the reviews, like if they could openly discuss these issues in their articles, it'd affect the score.
DesertPenguin
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I don't care about scores. I'll watch one my favorite LPers play it and see it through their eyes. That's the only opinion that matters to me. He's not being paid by a company to say anything
ROAD_DOGG33J
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McLaren
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I'm really curious what these flaws are though, that she references. Gameplay flaws typically aren't restricted to specific points. If there's a flaw in in that specific aspect, it should be pretty obvious throughout.
I know SkillUp's review basically said the jumping was a pointlessly added feature, so it has to be pretty noticeable if she or others can't talk about it.
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From Skill Up's review (at 21:09 in) where he is criticising the bad story & characters...
"A central theme of this game is Deconstruction. The game actively tries to deconstruct your memory of the characters from the first game, in a way that some will find challenging & interesting, but I find inelegant & unnecessary. The best parallel I can draw to this game is the new Star Wars trilogy, which was intent on challenging & deconstructing your memory of characters & events from the original trilogy."
Deconstruction comes from Postmodernism, which according to some experts is one of the cornerstones that all the X Studies, Y Studies, & Z Studies are based on. In turn, it's the ideology from these disciplines that college/uni graduates are being indoctrinated in, that they then take out into the world & into the work place. If they end up in prominent positions within the entertainment industry, it's no surprise that this leaning towards deconstructionism would be reflected in some of the creative works they produce. The ideas then filter down from various media sources into mainstream consciousness, where a paradigm shift towards a woke mentality occurs.
I find it interesting that Skill Up compares this game to the new Star Wars trilogy: here's a critique of how Deconstructionism affected them (the principles are universal).
"A central theme of this game is Deconstruction. The game actively tries to deconstruct your memory of the characters from the first game, in a way that some will find challenging & interesting, but I find inelegant & unnecessary. The best parallel I can draw to this game is the new Star Wars trilogy, which was intent on challenging & deconstructing your memory of characters & events from the original trilogy."
Deconstruction comes from Postmodernism, which according to some experts is one of the cornerstones that all the X Studies, Y Studies, & Z Studies are based on. In turn, it's the ideology from these disciplines that college/uni graduates are being indoctrinated in, that they then take out into the world & into the work place. If they end up in prominent positions within the entertainment industry, it's no surprise that this leaning towards deconstructionism would be reflected in some of the creative works they produce. The ideas then filter down from various media sources into mainstream consciousness, where a paradigm shift towards a woke mentality occurs.
I find it interesting that Skill Up compares this game to the new Star Wars trilogy: here's a critique of how Deconstructionism affected them (the principles are universal).
The Postmodern Deconstruction of the Star Wars Universe
Written by Nathan Martin on 12/26/2017
In the original Star Wars trilogy, the light side of the Force puts forth a process oriented vision of peace, while the dark side puts forth an “ends justifies the means” vision of peace. However, in the new movie “The Last Jedi”, both the light and dark sides are conveying the same message to the audience, “be in the moment, and destroy the past” as their vision of peace, as Kylo wants to destroy the idea of Rey’s family of origin, the Sith, and the Jedi, while Luke wants to destroy his nephew and the Jedi Order. The movie then proceeds to bastardize the legacies of, and then kill off, all of the old characters in an unceremonious fashion to support their vision of a heartless and soulless present moment.
However, destroying the past is a destructive worldview (Deconstructionism and Postmodern worldviews, really), as our past culture is what gives us our stability, identity, and acts as a foundation to our experiences in the present moment. When we destroy our past culture and norms, we become tremendously easy to manipulate, for we lack a firm foundation, balance, and a stable identity. Instead, we should learn and build upon our past as we continue to move forward with a clear vision of our future—as this is a healthy and reasonable process oriented progression.
Historically, whenever a nation or civilization was conquered by an invading force, or an uprising occurred that overthrew the current norm, the past cultural icons and heritage was destroyed, torn down, burned, and erased from the region. The new culture and history were then rewritten by the victors, and within one generation the past was typically forgotten, and the fabricated history and culture of the invading force was now the new normal. This is never more prevalent than with socialist and communist revolutions, as well as with imperialistic takeovers of foreign countries; and yet this is what is occurring within America’s borders in our politics, media, entertainment, governmental structure, etc., and now even in our Star Wars and Star Trek universe’s, which are American mythologies and cultural bastions that have inspired millions of people over the years.
Was Star Wars the Last Jedi true art, or the deconstruction of true art? It wasn’t art, since art is creative; it was an inversion of art, as it was destructive. The philosophy of tearing down the past is called Postmodernism and Deconstructivism, and it has infected political Progressivism, the New Age movement, modern (third wave) feminism, governments, Progressive LGBTQ+ movements, and most universities worldwide. The sole aim of this philosophy is the deconstruction of western culture as we know it, which they seek to replace with a communal form of socialism known as communitarianism.
Living in the present moment devoid of our past is soulless, meaningless, foundationless, and is an all around empty package; and I refuse to live this way. Rather than allow the heart and soul of our past to be unceremoniously deconstructed, killed, and rewritten, we need to hold onto our culture and traditions and build upon them. We are what we have created and experienced, and we are the process that we are participating in that will take us to where we are going—and this is all based upon our cultural foundations and heritage.
Source.
Written by Nathan Martin on 12/26/2017
In the original Star Wars trilogy, the light side of the Force puts forth a process oriented vision of peace, while the dark side puts forth an “ends justifies the means” vision of peace. However, in the new movie “The Last Jedi”, both the light and dark sides are conveying the same message to the audience, “be in the moment, and destroy the past” as their vision of peace, as Kylo wants to destroy the idea of Rey’s family of origin, the Sith, and the Jedi, while Luke wants to destroy his nephew and the Jedi Order. The movie then proceeds to bastardize the legacies of, and then kill off, all of the old characters in an unceremonious fashion to support their vision of a heartless and soulless present moment.
However, destroying the past is a destructive worldview (Deconstructionism and Postmodern worldviews, really), as our past culture is what gives us our stability, identity, and acts as a foundation to our experiences in the present moment. When we destroy our past culture and norms, we become tremendously easy to manipulate, for we lack a firm foundation, balance, and a stable identity. Instead, we should learn and build upon our past as we continue to move forward with a clear vision of our future—as this is a healthy and reasonable process oriented progression.
Historically, whenever a nation or civilization was conquered by an invading force, or an uprising occurred that overthrew the current norm, the past cultural icons and heritage was destroyed, torn down, burned, and erased from the region. The new culture and history were then rewritten by the victors, and within one generation the past was typically forgotten, and the fabricated history and culture of the invading force was now the new normal. This is never more prevalent than with socialist and communist revolutions, as well as with imperialistic takeovers of foreign countries; and yet this is what is occurring within America’s borders in our politics, media, entertainment, governmental structure, etc., and now even in our Star Wars and Star Trek universe’s, which are American mythologies and cultural bastions that have inspired millions of people over the years.
Was Star Wars the Last Jedi true art, or the deconstruction of true art? It wasn’t art, since art is creative; it was an inversion of art, as it was destructive. The philosophy of tearing down the past is called Postmodernism and Deconstructivism, and it has infected political Progressivism, the New Age movement, modern (third wave) feminism, governments, Progressive LGBTQ+ movements, and most universities worldwide. The sole aim of this philosophy is the deconstruction of western culture as we know it, which they seek to replace with a communal form of socialism known as communitarianism.
Living in the present moment devoid of our past is soulless, meaningless, foundationless, and is an all around empty package; and I refuse to live this way. Rather than allow the heart and soul of our past to be unceremoniously deconstructed, killed, and rewritten, we need to hold onto our culture and traditions and build upon them. We are what we have created and experienced, and we are the process that we are participating in that will take us to where we are going—and this is all based upon our cultural foundations and heritage.
Source.
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