The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

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WOuldn't it be cool to do a parade lap lead by that imagine the scene all the field warming the tyres following the lead of one of the greats
 
CarolinaBlue704
What's not to get? It was an underdog entering the race (fans love underdog stories). It's the only Japanese car to ever win Le Mans. It's also the only car powered by a rotary engine to win Le Mans. That's what makes the 787B unique and legendary. And it's one of a kind livery and great exhaust note only add to the appeal of the car. Even if you don't like the 787B, it's not that hard that to understand why it has a bit of a "cult" following.

As far as luck goes. Time-and-time again, the more reliable/lucky car has won Le Mans over the faster car(s). That's the beauty of Le Mans...
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So Japanese fanboyism and the Gran Turismo factor rather than it actually being a good race car make it a legend then.
 
TheCracker
So Japanese fanboyism and the Gran Turismo factor rather than it actually being a good race car make it a legend then.
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Whoa, you must be really peeved over the fact Audi paints its cars in the colours of the German flag. Oh those German fanboys! There can't be any acknowledgement that it was the only Japanese car to ever win Le Mans? That doesn't deserve any recognition? (as it certainly isn't like other Japanese manufacturers tried) And you pulled the "GT effect" out of nowhere. (whatever its merit) Never mind that you completely ignored his other points that it is a "cult" car. It is an oddity. And it would have remained an oddity if it hadn't won Le Mans, no matter how good or bad it is. But it did win, and that does mean something to some people. And in some ways, it can be taken as a final validation of the Rotary as a legitimate engine type. And lastly, part of why a car becomes well known is because of its livery, which is also unique and some people quite like.
 
LongbowX
Whoa, you must be really peeved over the fact Audi paints its cars in the colours of the German flag. Oh those German fanboys! There can't be any acknowledgement that it was the only Japanese car to ever win Le Mans? That doesn't deserve any recognition? (as it certainly isn't like other Japanese manufacturers tried) And you pulled the "GT effect" out of nowhere. (whatever its merit) Never mind that you completely ignored his other points that it is a "cult" car. It is an oddity. And it would have remained an oddity if it hadn't won Le Mans, no matter how good or bad it is. But it did win, and that does mean something to some people. And in some ways, it can be taken as a final validation of the Rotary as a legitimate engine type. And lastly, part of why a car becomes well known is because of its livery, which is also unique and some people quite like.
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We've had British, French, German, Italian and American Le Mans winners. Sooner or later a Japanese manufacturer was bound to win it too (even if the car was designed by a Brit and run by a French team ;) ) It's not such a big deal.

The Gran Turismo factor is that until it featured in the game it was largely forgotten.
 
I never knew about it until I saw it in Gran Turismo....and when I read up on it was quite disappointed. The slowest car won on that day due to reliability, had the other cars been more reliable it would've been quite comprehensively pantsed and forgotten about.
 
MitchZ06
I never knew about it until I saw it in Gran Turismo....and when I read up on it was quite disappointed. The slowest car won on that day due to reliability, had the other cars been more reliable it would've been quite comprehensively pantsed and forgotten about.
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Were the faster cars more unreliable because they were faster? Its not all about out and out speed at Le Mans. The Pugs have been fastest at Le Mans since they turned up but Audi have still been winning apart from 2009. The question is, who can drive the furthest in 24 hours? Not, who can drive the fastest around a single lap.
This is a great documentary if you dont understand endurance racing and Le Mans in particular, follows Audi through the buildup to the 2008 race.
In 3 parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhNMiOrJW7s&feature=related
 
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TheCracker
We've had British, French, German, Italian and American Le Mans winners. Sooner or later a Japanese manufacturer was bound to win it too (even if the car was designed by a Brit and run by a French team ;) ) It's not such a big deal.

The Gran Turismo factor is that until it featured in the game it was largely forgotten.
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The other winners are irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact it was the first, no matter how "inevitable" it may be (though even that is not definite.) Arguing over the nationalities of who designed it and run it are irrelevant as well and is just arguing semantics (as this could be argued over any of the victories and "who won?").

And even the point of how fast it was versus the rest of the cars. Yes, you could run any car with more horsepower. But it picked it's horsepower to be reliable, which is why it won Le Mans. It could have run with 930 horsepower, but it didn't. Because it would have probably lost.

There are many forgotten cars for numerous reasons. If a car is "remembered" because of game, how is that not legitimate? It is the only non-piston powered car to win Le Mans. It does deserve some memory. I will never say it's the greatest car ever or really fantastic. But it does deserve its place in history.

So, is your point because you don't like it, no one else can either? Because that's what it seems like you're pushing.
 
The Cracker
So Japanese fanboyism and the Gran Turismo factor rather than it actually being a good race car make it a legend then.
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MitchZ06
I never knew about it until I saw it in Gran Turismo....and when I read up on it was quite disappointed. The slowest car won on that day due to reliability, had the other cars been more reliable it would've been quite comprehensively pantsed and forgotten about.
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Luck is simply preparation awaiting opportunity.

The race took place over 24 hours at a circuit that is punishing enough by daylight alone. By the end of those 24 hours the 787 was still running and had covered the greatest distance.

It's win was iconic because of its unusual engine type, its nationality and the fact that before the race it was not perceived to be the fastest car in the pack.

Love it or hate it, for 24 hours in France the Mazda 787B was the greatest sportscar in the world.
 
TheCracker
So Japanese fanboyism and the Gran Turismo factor rather than it actually being a good race car make it a legend then.
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You completely missed my point. If you still fail to understand why the car is a legend, then I can't help.

And saying that it was largely forgotten before being featured in GT is ridiculous. Do you really believe the event organizers invited the car back for it's 20th anniversary, because of Gran Turismo?

MitchZ06
The slowest car won on that day due to reliability, had the other cars been more reliable it would've been quite comprehensively pantsed and forgotten about.
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But the other cars were not more reliable on that day. Were they? Thus, leading to the 787B's iconic win. It's called endurance racing for a reason...
 
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A 787B has been in the Le Mans museum for as long as I can remember, certainly before GT made it popular. Its one of the Le Mans greats.
 
TenEightyOne
It's win was iconic because of its unusual engine type, its nationality and the fact that before the race it was not perceived to be the fastest car in the pack.

Love it or hate it, for 24 hours in France the Mazda 787B was the greatest sportscar in the world.
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It wasn't perceived to be the fastest before or after the race due to the fact that, like i said before, it was a very average race car at best. It's other results, and it's qualifying postion for that particular race, prove that.

I love the 787B by the way, but as legends made at Le Mans, there are plenty of greater ones.

CarolinaBlue704
You completely missed my point. If you still fail to understand why the car is a legend, then I can't help.
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I just need to be presented with better evidence that's all.
 
The fact it was not as fast as the opposition and only rotary car, and unreliable, makes it even more of an achievement.
 
TheCracker
It wasn't perceived to be the fastest before or after the race due to the fact that, like i said before, it was a very average race car at best. It's other results, and it's qualifying postion for that particular race, prove that.
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You can't empirically say that it's qualities were average or below when the 'average' car in that race didn't finish. The 787 did and proved itself to be mathematically above the average. There's no opinion in that statement, it's a calculable and provable fact.

It may have been the underdog (or just a dog to some) but every dog has its day... and on this day an underpowered wankel car from Japan beat the favourites in one of the most gruelling endurance races in the motorsport calendar. It has nothing left to prove to you :D
 
TheCracker
It wasn't perceived to be the fastest before or after the race due to the fact that, like i said before, it was a very average race car at best. It's other results, and it's qualifying postion for that particular race, prove that.

I love the 787B by the way, but as legends made at Le Mans, there are plenty of greater ones.



I just need to be presented with better evidence that's all.
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This bit in bold is a bit off, Le Mans 1991 turned this car into a legend, it put the car up there with Porsche, Sauber-Mercedes, Jaguar and all the other big names that have one this race. Le Mans is the one and only reason for this car being a legend. As has been said it didnt acheive alot and wasnt the quickest car of the group c era but it did go further in June 1991 in France than any of the other cars did in 24 hours, its a fairytale story and everyone loves those.
 
TheCracker
I just need to be presented with better evidence that's all.
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Evidence? I simply tried to help you understand why the 787B is so highly regarded. But you keep pointing out that it was an average race car in terms of pace. 1 lap pace is not the deciding factor for a great car at Le Mans. It's called endurance racing. Whether you agree with it or not, the 787B is a legend at Le Mans. That's all the evidence I need.
 
Whats a good site that will live stream this years 24 hour race? I noticed Eurosports will be showing hour long shows inbetween there regular broadcast's but was hoping that I could watch the whole 24 hours non stop.
 
Type S Tony
Whats a good site that will live stream this years 24 hour race? I noticed Eurosports will be showing hour long shows inbetween there regular broadcast's but was hoping that I could watch the whole 24 hours non stop.
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Last year Eurosport showed most of the race but at times I have to watch through Justin.tv. They're pretty good though sometimes they don't broadcast with an english commentary... You just need to find an english broadcaster ;)
 
Type S Tony
Whats a good site that will live stream this years 24 hour race? I noticed Eurosports will be showing hour long shows inbetween there regular broadcast's but was hoping that I could watch the whole 24 hours non stop.
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I tend to find a stream through www.justin.tv. I then mute the sound and open a new window and go to www.radiolemans.com. These guys offer without any doubt the best commentary and the channel has quickly become a radio channel I listen to on a daily basis.

When the field starts to settle in after a few hours, I don't worry too much about the stream and have radiolemans open at all times. But then of course, the GT field never settles in until the last lap! :lol:
 
CarolinaBlue704
Evidence? I simply tried to help you understand why the 787B is so highly regarded. But you keep pointing out that it was an average race car in terms of pace. 1 lap pace is not the deciding factor for a great car at Le Mans. It's called endurance racing. Whether you agree with it or not, the 787B is a legend at Le Mans. That's all the evidence I need.
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Perhaps i just prefere my legends to be a bit more legendery and slightly less flukey.
 
I wouldn't say it's flukey, Dan. It's just not some godly machine that so many people think it was/is.

I'll take my Group C cars flat-six or V12 powered please 👍
 
There's nothing flukey about Mazda winning the Le Mans 24 Hours. They did it the same way everyone else does it. They lasted 24 hours better than anyone else.

They also had to beat crack works teams to do it unlike most of Audi's early wins in this race. I take it you don't regard the Audi R8 as less than legendary since it did nothing more that beat of bunch of privateers until Peugeot turned up?
 
Tired Tyres
There's nothing flukey about Mazda winning the Le Mans 24 Hours. They did it the same way everyone else does it. They lasted 24 hours better than anyone else.

They also had to beat crack works teams to do it unlike most of Audi's early wins in this race. I take it you don't regard the Audi R8 as less than legendary since it did nothing more than massively-outspend a bunch of privateers until Peugeot turned up?
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Fixed :p. Audi had plenty of good teams it had to beat...problem is the same as today though, Pescarolo, Oreca, Courage, etc will never be able to spend the huge resources that Audi did and does. You can see the same issue affecting Prodrive and Pescarolo today, they will never get anywhere close to Audi and Peugeot because they can't spend the same amounts on pretty much everything (aerodynamics being the most critical spend).
Not to mention the diesel regulations have not been very fair.
 

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