The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

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If you do a recap on 1999 you have it all:

a) TOYOTA - The fastest ... the unluckiest also

b) MERCEDES - The flyer ... literally

c) BMW - The efficient winner

d) PANOZ - The american dream

e) NISSAN - trying the open top

f) PESCAROLO - the french dream

g) AUDI - Who? ;)


By 2000, all factory teams were gone, only the teams born out of "dreams" (Panoz and Pescarolo) remained. Oh ... and Audi :D
 
Nah :P Porsche or Jag please.
 
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Tired Tyres
There's nothing flukey about Mazda winning the Le Mans 24 Hours. They did it the same way everyone else does it. They lasted 24 hours better than anyone else.
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Yes the car won Le Mans. So have 77 other cars. As far as being a 'legendary' Le Mans winner, there just has to be something a bit more special about it to push it into that legendary spot as far as i'm concerned.

Tired Tyres
They also had to beat crack works teams to do it unlike most of Audi's early wins in this race. I take it you don't regard the Audi R8 as less than legendary since it did nothing more that beat of bunch of privateers until Peugeot turned up?
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The Audi was the quickest car at the time. It also won other races. The Mazda qualified 12th for the 1991 Le Mans and never came close to winning anything either before or after.

Floats
Fair enough, in Group C however I'm Sauber4lyf.
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*Fixed* ;)
 
TheCracker
Yes the car won Le Mans. So have 77 other cars. As far as being a 'legendary' Le Mans winner, there just has to be something a bit more special about it to push it into that legendary spot as far as i'm concerned.



The Audi was the quickest car at the time. It also won other races. The Mazda qualified 12th for the 1991 Le Mans and never came close to winning anything either before or after.



*Fixed* ;)
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Winning a legendary race makes it a legendary car? :) I know what you mean though. It's the only Japanese car to win and that makes it legendary in Japan. It also make the other Japanese manufacturers very envious indeed.

Yes and if an R8 entered a race against a bunch of privateers in uncompetitive cars and it wins, that's special?

Winning when you don't have the fastest car is much more of an achievement than winning in a faster car.

Mazda took on and beat works entries from such total non-entities as Mercedes-Benz and Jaguar so clearly it's not good enough is it?
 
I've been reading this discussion without taking part but I'll say this. I highly regard the 787B not only because it won the 24, but mostly because it's a Wankel. That alone sets it apart. And makes it a very important piece of Le Mans history, and something unique in the roster of Le Mans winners. So, it is up there with the legends and rightly so.

My two cents :)
 
Tired Tyres
Yes and if an R8 entered a race against a bunch of privateers in uncompetitive cars and it wins, that's special?

Winning when you don't have the fastest car is much more of an achievement than winning in a faster car.

Mazda took on and beat works entries from such total non-entities as Mercedes-Benz and Jaguar so clearly it's not good enough is it?
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Mazda won in a year when the engine rules just had a major upheaval. The bigger teams struggled with the new engine rules and were ultimately beaten by a car still running to the previous regulations. The car was also allowed a 170kgs drop in weight to keep it competitive over it's (C2) class rivals.

Don't get me wrong, i do like the 787B and i do think that Mazda winning the '91 Le Mans was a creditable achievement. I just don't see it as being such a legendary race car given that, with the exception of it's Le Mans victory, which no matter how you look at it, it was still a gifted result, it was a very unremarkable race car when you look at it's other 27 results.


Hun200kmh
I've been reading this discussion without taking part but I'll say this. I highly regard the 787B not only because it won the 24, but mostly because it's a Wankel. That alone sets it apart. And makes it a very important piece of Le Mans history, and something unique in the roster of Le Mans winners. So, it is up there with the legends and rightly so.
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The fact that it ran a Wankel engine is little more than a curiosity really. We've had winners with every other major format of engine win at Le Mans, 4,6,8,10,12 cylinder engines, forced and naturally aspirated, petrol and diesel.
 
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TheCracker
The fact that it ran a Wankel engine is little more than a curiosity really. We've had winners with every other major format of engine win at Le Mans, 4,6,8,10,12 cylinder engines, forced and naturally aspirated, petrol and diesel.
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But how many other cars have won with a Wankel? ;)

Watch 'Truth in 24' if you want a better understanding of endurance racing and Le Mans in particular, its a great documentary about Audi being the underdog in 2008.
 
*Venom stares at his 1/18 scale 787B
I also am quite fond of the 787B and it's LeMans victory. Would be nice to see the Wankel rotary return to LeMans also. Though, one thing I would LOVE to see return to LeMans is the gas turbine engine. Howmet tried it in the 1960's, with little success at LeMans, but several wins and podium finishes in shorter races. Was cancelled due to lack of funds lol...
 
That was 50 years ago! How in hell would the ACO balance a gas turbine powertrain against say a diesel? Restrictors dont work! lol
 
MitchZ06
That was 50 years ago! How in hell would the ACO balance a gas turbine powertrain against say a diesel? Restrictors dont work! lol
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They can limit fuel flow, refuelling rates and fuel tank size amongst other things! A gas turbine needs an air intake just like a piston engine.
 
Yeah but a 25mm restrictor would just make it like putting a 1mm restrictor on a normal engine. Fuel flow, refuelling rates and tank size however are the only real options to try and balance it out but if its blowing everyone away (wanted to use that pun :dopey:) on track then making it wait an extra 20seconds in the pits for fuel wont matter much....
 
Well 20 seconds a pit stop and your looking at around 30 stops so thats about 3 laps over the 24 hours. At least if it rained they could dry out a nice line down the Mulsanne! :) Fuel flow is a much better way of restricting a gas turbine as they tend to suck in enough air anyway.
 
Yeah but if they're able to do 3:20s easy then theres a problem that 3 laps over 24hours wont fix ;).

Thats thinking tho, other teams would be praying it rains! :p
 
New Flying Lizard livery for Le Mans has been unveiled, I know a couple of you will probably appreciate seeing it. I personally quite like it, interested to hear your thoughts though.

FL_1.jpg


FL_2.jpg


FL_3.jpg


Link
 
Reminds me of their last art car, very very nice. I remember in the RLM GTE Preview Hindy mentioned "you will want to get a diecast version of it" and yes, you're correct Mr Hindhaugh!
 
Looks nice enough in these studio shots. Not sure how that will translate once on track. Their red/silver livery was distinctive and easily recognizable.
 
Speedster502
New Flying Lizard livery for Le Mans has been unveiled, I know a couple of you will probably appreciate seeing it. I personally quite like it, interested to hear your thoughts though.

FL_1.jpg


FL_2.jpg


FL_3.jpg


Link
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Prefer the old paint, still a good design though
 
Speedster502
New Flying Lizard livery for Le Mans has been unveiled, I know a couple of you will probably appreciate seeing it. I personally quite like it, interested to hear your thoughts though.

FL_1.jpg


FL_2.jpg


FL_3.jpg


Link
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Loving the graphic design livery. :)
 
Looks amazing just like their last art car. Being a lizard fan myself and having some of their gear John Hindaugh hit the nail on the head when he talked about this team.
 
Slammedc
Which television stations will be covering the Le Mans race in America?
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Speed channel in U.S. EU has eurosport. And whoever said the toyota was the fast but unlucky. And the Mercs being flyers. +1 for you
 
InvincibleM5
Does anybody knows whether BMW will come out with another Art Car this year?
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I wouldnt count on it... they made a bunch of noise several months in advance when they did last year... They'll have an art car, just not for LE Mans...
 

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