The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

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RACECAR
Its not because they aren't the other classes (Again I bring up how much I actually love LMPC), but its because of a series called Patron GT3 Challenge. Again, why do we need two GT development classes when one of them were just fine? I didn't like them being in ALMS to begin with last year and I still don't like them now because of it.
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The talk about "development class" is just a smokescreen and a secondary reason. The real reason why it was introduced in the first place after the dismal 2009 season was to just fill the grid. :grumpy: It did its job, since the series still exists, but now that car counts are slowly picking up they are apparently reluctant to drop it (and I believe the contract was originally for three years? So one more year left) and it is creating an issue for the over-filled WEC events.
 
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Paulie Walnuts
The talk about "development class" is just a smokescreen and a secondary reason. The real reason why it was introduced in the first place after the dismal 2009 season was to just fill the grid. :grumpy: It did its job, since the series still exists, but now that car counts are slowly picking up they are apparently reluctant to drop it (and I believe the contract was originally for three years? So one more year left) and it is creating an issue for the over-filled WEC events.
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I do to some extent agree about them perhaps initially being grid fillers too. At least LMPC though actually has a purpose beyond that. If it were to exist as a seperate series in North America, it would never be noticed so it makes sense to have it in a series that is sort of already noticed and It finally fills that need for a Prototype Developmental class. GTC is far more of a grid filler in my opinion because again, the Patron GT3 Challenge class is doing the exact same thing they supposedly are doing and they (as far as I know) have no professional drivers.

As for the WEC, I do see the concern myself. Exactly how much can you fill up before its way over crowded?

Unfortunately as much as you may despise them being class fillers, the reality is after Sebring, you'll never see a field like that until Petit Le Mans. Until economy improves and until the ACO stops taking european entries away (Because I'm sure this wouldn't be happening if the ACO didn't have the LMES in the first place), thats what we have for now.
 
Isn't ALMS an iteration of LMES? I'd like to see them combine, really, or partner in some stronger way, and get good publicity and air time to every race. That could solve your problem, too, and replace GTC with GT-P and GT-Am. Bring in all the exciting Euro drivers by adding our American circuits to the championship.
 
Tower Turn 13
Isn't ALMS an iteration of LMES? I'd like to see them combine, really, or partner in some stronger way, and get good publicity and air time to every race. That could solve your problem, too, and replace GTC with GT-P and GT-Am. Bring in all the exciting Euro drivers by adding our American circuits to the championship.
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It would seem redundant to do that and have the WEC at the same time. Not to mention most teams that only compete in the ALMS or LMES usually don't have the budgets for international travel.
 
Justin
It would seem redundant to do that and have the WEC at the same time. Not to mention most teams that only compete in the ALMS or LMES usually don't have the budgets for international travel.
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I'm not as familiar with LMES--does the WEC run the same drivers/cars? I would like to see the European races get actual TV coverage. If they didn't partner they could at least take a hint from ALMS. Some of their races are on Eurosport which doesn't even offer an online player in the U.S., and others have no video coverage whatsoever. No bueno para mi :)

But my main point was hasn't LMES been around longer than ALMS? Isn't ALMS based on the European series?

And yes I know most teams don't compete across seas because of the money involved. But is it that much more to send your car across the lake than it is to send it across the continent? I'm a little ignorant on the point but I'd love to at least see some of the guys come over for a few races. I guess they kind of do for the big ones like Sebring and Petit.
 
Tower Turn 13
Isn't ALMS an iteration of LMES?
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Nope. ALMS was born in 1999 (though some say in 1998 with the debut of Petit Le Mans) way before LMES in 2004. LMES is basically the newer ELMS, which was originally a failure at the time.
 
"LMES" has been just "LMS" since 2006. Same series though and not to be confused with the ELMS which was basically a spin-off from ALMS - ALMS calendar looked pretty interesting in 2000/2001...

If LMS was already in the shadow of the ILMC in Europe, it will be even more in the future with the decision to remove LMP1 class completely and obviously letting (ILMC=)WEC to take the place as the main stage for prototypes. LMS will be the series for small privateers. I think this division is really good.
 
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Tower Turn 13
I'm not as familiar with LMES--does the WEC run the same drivers/cars?
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ILMC (that morphs into WEC next year) did not have a standalone races this year - all of them excluding Le Mans was a shared event with ALMS or LMS. Next year all WEC races except Sebring and Petit will be standalone. Does this answer your question?

WEC: P1, P2, GT-Pro, GT-Am
LMS: P2, LMPC, GT-Pro, GT-Am, GTC*

*except that it's open class, i.e. not only for Cup Porsches

Le Mans will obviously run to WEC class structure, since it will be a WEC event.

I would like to see the European races get actual TV coverage. If they didn't partner they could at least take a hint from ALMS. Some of their races are on Eurosport which doesn't even offer an online player in the U.S., and others have no video coverage whatsoever. No bueno para mi :)
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I think LMS will have from very little to none tv coverage besides what is shown on MotorsTV if any, but not sure why you would be specifically interested in LMS if you can watch the WEC. This year ACO has streamed ILMC races for free. I hope that continues with the WEC. Link here or then it will be at lemans.org. Btw, last race of the year, Zhuhai, is next weekend.

RACECAR
As for the WEC, I do see the concern myself. Exactly how much can you fill up before its way over crowded?
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De jure limit is 60 for Sebring...

Unfortunately as much as you may despise them being class fillers, the reality is after Sebring, you'll never see a field like that until Petit Le Mans. Until economy improves and until the ACO stops taking european entries away (Because I'm sure this wouldn't be happening if the ACO didn't have the LMES in the first place), thats what we have for now.
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That's an interesting view... if there had not been an European series, I don't think there would be such big pool of teams (compared to US) in the first place. ALMS needs to find American teams to really survive.
 
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So I thought European Le Mans was formed based on the historic race in France various decades ago. You guys are telling me this kind of sports car racing in general appeared ten years ago?

I may be thinking of ILMC not LMES. I get confused on what is what. I'm really just talking multi-class sports car racing or Le Mans in general.

I didn't think ALMS was the first iteration of Le Mans, though if that's what you guys are saying that's quite interesting.
 
Tower Turn 13
So I thought European Le Mans was formed based on the historic race in France various decades ago. You guys are telling me this kind of sports car racing in general appeared ten years ago?

I may be thinking of ILMC not LMES. I get confused on what is what. I'm really just talking multi-class sports car racing or Le Mans in general.
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No, but these series in question appeared. Of course the type of racing goes way back... There was a FIA-sanctioned World Championship for sportscars between 1953-1992.



ALMS's roots are obviously in the IMSA Camel GT series, which used similar technical rules than the World Championship and it consequently collapsed in 1993.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFd4IZB_mMY

Mid 1990s Le Mans was almost GT-only since prototypes had to series to race in Europe. In the US, the was a smaller IMSA series until it kind of transformed into current ALMS in 1999. One could say LMS and ILMC/WEC have indirectly resulted from ALMS.

With the formation of the WEC, it's a full circle now. :sly:
 
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Toyota has signed Alex Wurz, Nico Lapierre (both good) and, oh dear, Kazuki Nakajima for it's 2012 LMP1 programme. I know KN is a Toyota driver and all and they want to support a Japanes driver, but couldn't they find a good Japanese driver? All Kazuki will do is crash the car like he did in F1.
 
Being talked about in the Toyota Hybrid thread :) Anyway, I say give Kazuki a chance. KK can't go there and Toyota wanted a japanese driver.

Of course they could've gone with the other Kaz, that Yamauchi bloke, but it seems he is a Nissan man and you know Japan, changing camps is a no-no ;)
 
Hun200kmh
Being talked about in the Toyota Hybrid thread :) Anyway, I say give Kazuki a chance. KK can't go there and Toyota wanted a japanese driver.

Of course they could've gone with the other Kaz, that Yamauchi bloke, but it seems he is a Nissan man and you know Japan, changing camps is a no-no ;)
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That and he's quite busy with some popular video game:)

sumbrownkid
^I would have enjoyed the video more if it didn't have porn music in the background.👍
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You're looking at a video made in the 80s, where that music was used heavely in racing highlights of many series.
 
GTC Coming to LMS:

Speed.com
The European-based Le Mans Series is set for a significant overhaul for 2012, with the final pieces having been confirmed last week. In addition to the elimination of the LMP1 category and standalone races from the FIA World Endurance Championship, the Patrick Peter-run series will introduce a new GT category.

Taking the name from its American counterpart, the newly announced GTC class will not only be open for Porsche 911 GT3 Cup cars, but also Ferrari F430 Challenge and Lotus Evora GT4 cars, something not currently seen in the American Le Mans Series
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Link

And once again, I question the decision to leave GTC exclusively as a Porsche only class in the ALMS. At least in europe, they're opening it up.

Also, Mika Hakkinen coming out of retirement for this weekend's race at Zhuhai, doubles as a debut race for the Mercedes SLS GT3 and George-Howard Chappell Announces his retirement.
 
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Tower Turn 13
I could see the Lotus Evora in a challenge class capacity. They sure as heck aren't too competitive in the higher GT class.
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I'd love to see them in the ALMS, along with some others in the GTC class, it would be nice to see something in the ALMS GTC grid besides Porsches.
 
Duffers917K
oh dear, Kazuki Nakajima for it's 2012 LMP1 programme. I know KN is a Toyota driver and all and they want to support a Japanes driver, but couldn't they find a good Japanese driver? All Kazuki will do is crash the car like he did in F1.
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Remember 2008, Kazuki avoided all the crashes and consistenly bought the car home in most races, 2009 was a bad year but he was more than that in F1.
 
I'm curious as to what other teams will enter Spykers in 2012. This will be the first time Spyker has sold their ready-to-race GT car other race teams. While they themselves will be entering the 2012 LeMans series and returning to the 24 Hours of LeMans, other teams will now get a change to take the new Spyker for a spin. Spyker has built it to GTE-specs and are going to look into building a FIA GT3 spec racer following the 2012 season...and if Spyker decided to put the Corvette V8 in the race car...they could be quite competitive this year.
 
So, BMW Team RLL (ALMS) Gets the invite to Le Mans Next year... Does that mean that there will be 2 teams running "Factory" M3's? Or will Schnitzer be a part of RLL?
 
RLL won't be running factory BMW's next year or operate in the ALMS at all if rumors are correct.
 
SuperShouden
What? They're sooooo busy with DTM that they can't run some ALMS races? Well...at least we'll see them at Le Mans.
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Aaaaa... RLL didn't operate the DTM programme. BMW still have the E92 M3 GT2 going and RLL should be able to use the M3 still even IF they lost support from the factory.
 
Schnitzer runs the factory programme in Europe...RLL could run in ALMS but might not have the money now the factory has pulled support.
 
SuperShouden
I was talking about BMW, not RLL
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Yeah, when I read it for the second time, I knew there is something that I missed...

We'll see what happens next year. Rumours are rumours... We are yet to see the end of the M3 GT2. Whatever it is, BMW is concentrating in getting their DTM programme running as much as they were concentrating their Endurance Racing going 3 years ago...
 

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