The Most Overrated Car(s) in GT4

[GotTorque]

on the JGTC thing, i would rather see more version....i want the whole grid (or atleast my favorite, eclipse Supra[/img]) to help solve the repeating race # in one race problem.....

about the rest of your post, i agree, there should be more of the quirky french cars that are so loveable (i want a 2CV panel truck, lol)....lots of other makes are understated like Fiat (i want more 500s!) and Alfa Romeo.....

Heh, how do you guys think I feel? We get the friggan camaro, but screwed on something even as simple as _just_ a 3D model for the good version.






[URL="http://www.marshu.com/images-website/car/firebird-gm-media-picture/pontiac-firebird-2002-ws6-w300.jpg"]http://www.marshu.com/images-website/car/firebird-gm-media-picture/pontiac-firebird-2002-ws6-w300.jpg

For that matter, where's the Fiero? Perfect to put up against the MR2. The '67 GTO would have been a more logical choice too, as opposed to the '64. And we have the Chevelle, why not that generation GTO? Particularly the Judge?

Sorry, getting back off topic, I know.

 

[SavageEvil]

My bad on the GT cars power output, typo it should have been 600 (damn trying to post with kids about is a pain).

It should be remembered that Wheeler's comments on the car are not those of a man who doesn't know what hes talking about, he was a long term TVR owner and Tuscan racer before he bought the company. Of course asking him to build you one know whould be a pointless exercise as he no longer owns TVR.

Who knows why they shelved the project, most likely money (TVR have never been rolling in it), which could, and was better spent on other models. The Speed 12 would never have made money for them in a serious way.

The dyno issue, I never said that dyno that could measure that high were not availiable, just that they were expensive and often not that accurate, why would TVR invest in one for a single pre-production car? They slapped in on their existing (and very capable given what its normal job was) to see what it would do.

As far as TVR stands today, they are indeed now owned by a 23 year old Russian, however they have layed off a large part of the workforce and sales have fallen sharpley. A new site is planned to be built and a new model range is also in the pipeline, what comes out the end and how close it is to the TVR we know today is hard to say.

Regards

Scaff

I usually have no faith when the father of a car company, has no input on where the company is headed. This is what I feel about TVR, if I had the money I would buy me a Tuscan and griffith before the new management takes over and starts making cars his way. Sorry to see a Great British company lose it's heart.

 

[Greycap]

back on topic, im going to have to go with the Skyline R33/R34 being the most overrated......skylines were fun when they were still basically unheard-of, but since the whole drifter/initialD/fast and furious thing came out, theres a whole fanbase that...........need i go on? you know the drill...lol

You're absolutely right on spot there, the problem isn't in the car itself but those people have destroyed its reputation. The GT-R used to be known as a very fast racing car - and that's what it still is to me and some others - but unfortunately most people today think of drifting or street racing when they see or hear about a Skyline and that's not what it was meant to be. The fine race legacy of the car is slowly vanishing under the Fast and Furious image, sad but probably unavoidable.

There is a big gap between the track racing Skyline enthusiasts and the street racing Skyline enthusiasts, and I would never call the former fanboys. Sadly, many people do.

- R -

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Now all of you are getting really off-topic!

 

[Leonidae]

actually, no. Greycap was just telling why GT-R's and other japanese high performance cars have become overrated.. and the answer is plainly F&F.

 

[Scaff]

I usually have no faith when the father of a car company, has no input on where the company is headed. This is what I feel about TVR, if I had the money I would buy me a Tuscan and griffith before the new management takes over and starts making cars his way. Sorry to see a Great British company lose it's heart.

Well to be fair Peter Wheeler is not the father of TVR, that would be TreVeR Wilkinson, who founded TVR Engineering, the company has been through a number of owners since then.

As far as Wheeler goes, he made a lot of very good moves for the company and a lot of bad ones as well (such as shuting out Rover engines when BMW bought them).

The 'new' cars coming out under the new management have been reviewed as the best to have ever come out ot the factory, particulalrly in the traditional TVR weak areas of handling and build quality.

I would personally dispute that TVR has lost its heart, its simply far too early to say.

Which leads me on to why I feel the Speed 12 is not overrated.

You see I feel it depends on what you have been lead to expect from the car, and my introduction and knowledge has always been from the real car. When reviewed or discussed in the press it was as a monster, with far more power than the chassis could handle, a car that would require every last bit of skill from the driver to even get close to the limits of.

Under that remit I find the Speed 12 far from overrated; its never been said of the real ones that they were all masterful, most of that has grown up around the 'gaming' media on the car, particularly PGR2, in which it was simply a doddle to drive.

I don't consider the Speed 12 overrated at all, but I guess it depends on what information you rate it against. I've used those who have actually driven or experienced the car, who regard it as a monster that needs the upmost respect, and far from an easy car to go quick in.

Regards

Scaff

 

[GM]

I find the Speed 12 underrated, all you need to do is learn to control it then it's an exellent car

 

[Dude?]

Hey anyone here like driving the Series 1, now that is an under-rated car, with only 300+ horses it can match and beat cars in it's power output range, and not to mention is sounds absolutely orgasmic, what is with GT4 and barely any bass, robbing some cars of their low grunt sounds.

The Series 1 is a great car. Sounds very cool too. I think I used it in the Laguna Seca 200 Miles. I'd have to agree that it is underrated.

 

[Kooky]

I don't think the Speed 12 is overrated considering it's not a complete car. It should've deserved a longer lifetime, like the Jaguar XJ220. Maybe TVR will come out with a car based on the Speed 12, but with much more weight and less power...a toned down version, so to speak.

 

[GotTorque]

I don't think the Speed 12 is overrated considering it's not a complete car. It should've deserved a longer lifetime, like the Jaguar XJ220. Maybe TVR will come out with a car based on the Speed 12, but with much more weight and less power...a toned down version, so to speak.

....and smaller wheel openings. For the love of god.

 

[Kooky]

I guess..? I have nothing against the visual design of it...

 

[Dude?]

....and smaller wheel openings. For the love of god.

I second that. They make the Speed 12 kinda .

 

[LeadSlead#2]

SavageEvil: The Saleen S7TT has 750hp. it already exists, and is currently being produced. been done tested in magazines already...in March.
There has been no conformation whatsoever (that I've heard anywhere) that a 1000hp version will ever exist, and I persoanlly doubt it will.
GOOD GOD MAN!!!! the 750hp version goes 248mph... what would 1000hp do?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[sidewinderl]

SavageEvil: The Saleen S7TT has 750hp. it already exists, and is currently being produced. been done tested in magazines already...in March.
There has been no conformation whatsoever (that I've heard anywhere) that a 1000hp version will ever exist, and I persoanlly doubt it will.
GOOD GOD MAN!!!! the 750hp version goes 248mph... what would 1000hp do?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Fly to the moon

 

[Leonidae]

noo.. plow straight in corner like every american car j/k

 

[LeadSlead#2]

hey man, take it easy, we have to be safe ya know. can't have dangerous cars 'round here. no sir. our populous can't drive for freaking 🤬 laughing, but because it's true.

 

[baumaxx1]

why's everyone complaining about black cars, give them an oil change, refresh, roll cage and they are faster
they are loose because they are more responsive

 

[baumaxx1]

over rated cars- RUF Canary, WHERE ARE THE BRAKES???

 

[GotTorque]

noo.. plow straight in corner like every american car j/k

Yup, just like that old C4 GS that out ran a new NSX (stock for stock).

 

[xjr-9]

SavageEvil: The Saleen S7TT has 750hp. it already exists, and is currently being produced. been done tested in magazines already...in March.
There has been no conformation whatsoever (that I've heard anywhere) that a 1000hp version will ever exist, and I persoanlly doubt it will.
GOOD GOD MAN!!!! the 750hp version goes 248mph... what would 1000hp do?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Just for comparison, the Bugatti Veyron would need 2000hp extra to reach 272mp/h, so you can get the idea that 1000hp in the Saleen wouldn't make it go much quicker.

xjr-9

 

[FC3Sleepah]

Skylines, and the FF honda's seem to stick alot better than any other FF car.

 

[Scaff]

Skylines

What every single one of them?

Not a single Skyline with a redeeming feature or characteristic to its name?

Please at least try and put together a resonable piece of text about why you think Skylines are overrated.

Regards

Scaff

 

[SavageEvil]

No idea what the 750hp S7 TT does for top speed. This is a lil off topic, but everytime I see a top speed point, lots of people like to chime in with weight has no bearing on top speed, I would like to point out, that is correct in a perfect world with no air. Weight has a lot to do with top speed on land, weight(mass) cause lots of problems. Can increase tire wear, forces the car to require more power to get it moving quicker and lastly, how much road you have. On a track like Nardo, you may never run out of road, but high weight will kill tires before you can reach whatever that top speed may be. So the Saleen S7 TT 1000hp, can beat the Veyron's top speed. Why? It's lighter, hence you get up to speed quicker, it's has a lower drag coefficient, slices through the air easier, and the airflow trailing off the rear doesn't slow the car as much. So in realistic conditions the S7 TT can definately beat the Veyron, much better Power-to-weight Ratio: 2900lbs@1000hp vs 4400lbs@1000hp(981). It's all about whether the tires can handle the speed and will the car be stable at such high speeds.

On topic Skylines are very adept cars, nothing overrated about em, sure there are a lot of them in the game, but these cars have proven themselves over the years in Japan. Just like the Corvette, is the 'vette overrated, I think not, it's proven itself. It's just a japanese centric game, they will add more cars to the game, it's all about getting them in. In japan is about patriotism, those guys really back their fellow man. NIssan actually allowing PD to design a model of their 350Z for the game, come on now.

 

[isocuda]

Now its a Japanise designed game, so no wonder they have alot of japanise cars. Now last year MPH magazine came out with an issue that had the top tenn overrated cars. In 7th place was the Nissan Skyline GT-R. Said to be overrated because of its lack of horsepower and the heavy weight of the AWD. Since that issue I've Never loooked at a MPH with respect. My reasons you ask?, Simple, the Skyline GT-R isn't overrated at all, though it is overly hyped by newbie fans and what not. The horsepower (280BHP) is pretty much the street legal limit in Japan, and the RB26 was designed to be tunable, thus leaving alot of room for customization and various racing styles. The AWD system is comprized of the Super- HICAS all-wheel steering, and ATESSA ET-S AWD managment, allowing full rear-wheel torwue to 50/50 torwque split changes in mere milliseconds, at the time of the 300 produced GT-R M-Spec Nur (for the 'ring, were it was tested) it had the worlds fastest reacting AWD system. Also The GT-R was banned from racing, even with handicaps it was still supeiror to pretty much anything on the market. It was a legand and is a legand, and for good reason, its the Mustang of Japan, the only thing is is that it has worldwide presteige and fanship. The bottom line..... The Nissan Skyline GT-R is an extremly balanced machine, powerful out of the box and deadly with mods, is it overrated? No not at all? Is the overgrown fanbase of newbies and wannabes sicking? Yeah, I can't stand the people that automatically think GT-R when it comes to the fastest car question, its a wellr ounded racer, with proper tuning it can excell in a specific area, and its not alone out there either.......


P.S. to those of you that think the AE86 is overrated, it isnt, its the drivers abilities, the Eight-Six was never a super sporty racer, it was almost retarded, but it had jsut enough umph to get you places, and yes they populerized it thru Initial D, but it was already a cult car in japan because it came around the time that drifting in Japan really did start to catch on, and thus it became a favorite. but its about beign a better driver than having a better car, so obviously the Eight Six isn't goign to win any NASCAR events......

Though in my opinion the most overrated cars are Mercedes and BMW's, THough i love the M3 GTR, it's legandary, and the SLR is amazing, the rest of there fleet is commonly overrated by young and old, It drives me nuts, exspecially consdiering how most think the only good German cars are those two when Audi takes the cake on almost everything, even car of the year (Car & Driver) And the B5 Gen. S$ is isane witha few mods, can destroy ferrari's I've seen it done in real life for only 2 grand, but hey no biggie right, Everyone has there likes and dislikes, some like women some like men, some pony' others explosions, I like Red you might prefer Blue, It all depends on hwo you take it............

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

Ya know what's an underrated car? The Shelby Series 1! Got one with red stripes and it kicks ass, and looks good doing it.

 

[Thatman]

In my opinion the Shelby Cobra is overrated. Not only do you have to do races with it in GT4 they were just as annoying in Forza. But mainly I think if they might have done somthing to get the car to turn and stop, it would have been better.

 

[niky]

The Cobra is a terrific car, especially considering that it's basically a leaf-sprung horsecart with an engine the size of a Ford Fiesta (the engine probably weighs more than the Fiesta... even with a driver in it... ) shoehorned in the nose. It just demands a little respect.

The Shelby Series 1 is definitely on my list of under-rated cars. A blast to drive. Too bad it's so damn expensive compared to similar cars... but since when has money mattered in GT4?

And re: Japanese cars in a Japanese game...

To anyone who wishes to add <insert Japanese car name> then goes on to complain as to why oh why does GT4 make this car so good when it's not really so good in real life...

I've driven as many of GT4's cars as humanly possible in the past few months... and no, Japanese cars, in general, are not always the best, or over-powered, or over-grippy as compared to other cars in the game.

Like this comment:

Skylines, and the FF honda's seem to stick alot better than any other FF car.

FF Hondas don't stick a lot better than any other FF car. They're just better than most common FF cars. The Integra is one of the stickiest, but the Alfa Romeo GT is just as sticky and quick around most tracks, the Modellista Celica is just as good (except for the engine), same can be said for the Renault Clio, the Ford RS is much quicker and stickier... if only a bit trickier to drive.

In fact, so far, the only car unfairly represented as too good by GT4 is the top-of-the-line RX8, which gets an amazing 300hp, where, in real-life, it gets something like 235hp (or less).

But that's not to say PD favors Mazda... the Mazdaspeed6 is nowhere near as good as the Subaru Legacy. And the regular 6 is slow as a turd.

 

[GotTorque]

In my opinion the Shelby Cobra is overrated. Not only do you have to do races with it in GT4 they were just as annoying in Forza. But mainly I think if they might have done somthing to get the car to turn and stop, it would have been better.

Here we go again, as with the C4 Grand Sport.

The Cobra is not overrated, and it DOES turn and stop. And if you do tweak on it, it's one of the baddest mofos around.

And to the other poster - leaf sprung horse cart? Check again. It was coil sprung.

At any rate, back to what I was saying...

The 289 Cobra ran in Le Mans and finished 7th, without any support from Ford. Consider that that would be like you or I building a hybrid and taking it to Le Mans on our own. It's a hell of an accomplishment.

The following year, they returned and finished first and fourth.

It also won the Bridgehampton 500 km, and allowed Dan Guerney to be the first American driver to win an FIA event.

All those races do require one to be able to turn.

The 427 was completely redesigned from the chassis up -
a 1964 roadster with a top speed of 163mph. 4 wheel independent suspension. 485hp. Super low weight and monster rubber.

The car could go from 0 to 100 and back to 0 in less than 14 seconds. Can't stop? Err... ok.

How many modern cars can do that? Precious few, and all of them super cars priced well above what the Cobra was (in it's day, inflation considered).

What that means is, quite simply, a 1964 car will flat smoke about 95+% of cars produced today. Find me another car with that level of domination.

Just like the person who claimed the C4 Grand Sport was "hopeless", you only have to drive it properly to get the most out of it. (for the record, I ran the stock C4 round the 'ring and Laguna and Tsukuba faster than a stock 04 NSX. And I like MR cars and pushed the hell out of both)

And if you do take to modding it, well, let's talk about suspension for a momemt. This "race suspension" they talk about is bogus. You don't need to get a race suspension to change your alignment or spring rate, or ride height, or sway bars. Not in real life that is. However, if you cough up the 17,000 Cr to get the adjustability in GT4, you can have a vehicle that is the very essence of domination.

My Cobra has had an oil change, and a so-called race suspension installed, and S3 tires. That's it. It's nearly as fast as my fully worked DB9. And it's faster than anything else I've used at Laguna so far. On a track where it's top speed is not a handicap, it will simply kick ass. If you were to throw a 5 speed in there, and custom tweak them, the top speed would be less of an issue and it could continue it's ass kicking on faster tracks (like the 'ring).

It hangs on in a turn amazingly well, transitions nicely, stops fast enough to be painful, and accelerates like an LMP car.


However, all that is not to say that it's easy to drive fast. The car demands respect and can be tricky. I saw a friend of mine, who is quite good at the game, look hopeless when I handed him my Cobra. In the words of Quentin from 5th Gear - "Get it wrong in a Cobra, and it will kill you.".

 

[blayzzz]

Anyone whos driven a Skyline GTR in real life will tell you they aren't overrated at all, especially when you slap in a bigger turbo, the way the engine revs up is better then sex itself.

 

[Scaff]

The car could go from 0 to 100 and back to 0 in less than 14 seconds. Can't stop? Err... ok.

How many modern cars can do that? Precious few, and all of them super cars priced well above what the Cobra was (in it's day, inflation considered).

While I agree with your main points about the Cobra not being overrated, in regard to 0-100-0 quite a few cars that (taking into account inflation) costing the same or less than a Cobra could beat it. Most Caterham, Aerial or Radical's could do the job.

Have a look at this years 0-100-0 test results from Autocar

0-100-0 2006 Results
0-100-0 2005 Results
0-100-0 2004 Results
0-100-0 2003 Results
0-100-0 2002 Results

Now don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not discounting the Cobra's 0-100-0 history, it held the world record for a long time, but the world has moved on and a lot of non-supercars can now beat it.

Yes they are very focused cars (the likes of the Radical or Caterham), but no more so than the Cobra was in its day.

What that means is, quite simply, a 1964 car will flat smoke about 95+% of cars produced today. Find me another car with that level of domination.

Just like the person who claimed the C4 Grand Sport was "hopeless", you only have to drive it properly to get the most out of it. (for the record, I ran the stock C4 round the 'ring and Laguna and Tsukuba faster than a stock 04 NSX. And I like MR cars and pushed the hell out of both)

Its a 1964 car that will dominate a lot of cars today in the dry, once the rain hits the road its game over for the Cobra.

You also need to caviate what you say, the Cobra is indeed a fast and powerful tool in the right hands, and in those hands could in the right conditions beat a lot of other cars. Having said that in the wrong hands its unlikely to be a threat to most modern cars.

Point blank, the GT4 Cobra is too easy to drive.

And if you do take to modding it, well, let's talk about suspension for a momemt. This "race suspension" they talk about is bogus. You don't need to get a race suspension to change your alignment or spring rate, or ride height, or sway bars. Not in real life that is. However, if you cough up the 17,000 Cr to get the adjustability in GT4, you can have a vehicle that is the very essence of domination.

Yes you can change some of the items you have mentioned without refiting suspension components, but the range of adjustment you can carry out in these areas with standard components is very limited.

To obtain the full range of control over suspension tuning in the real world you do have to fit racing spec components.

And for more reasons that just full control over adjustments, racing suspension units are much better manufactured, more durable, lighter and stronger.

You are right about real life to a point, but the range of adjustments you have with stock components on most road cars is very limited, to obtain any decent level of control you have to have racing spec equipment.

Dampers are a great example of this, most road car dampers are, to be very blunt, crap. Aside from not being adjustable, most are poorly and cheaply manufactured and will not last long under the extremes of operation a track throws at components.

However, all that is not to say that it's easy to drive fast. The car demands respect and can be tricky. I saw a friend of mine, who is quite good at the game, look hopeless when I handed him my Cobra. In the words of Quentin from 5th Gear - "Get it wrong in a Cobra, and it will kill you.".

Quite agree, but keep in mind that the GT4 Cobra is still a sanitised version.

An often used (and quite correct) favorite of Enthusia fans in the standing start. Bury the throttle in a GT4 Cobra and then take your foot off the brake and the car will spin the rears up, but when it gains traction in will head off in a straight line. You don't even need to hold the steering. In Enthusia if you try the same, as soon as you take you foot off the brakes the rear of the car gets overwhelmed by the torque and starts to step sideways, you need to keep it in check.

While I believe that reality lies in between the two extremes offered by GT4 and Enthusia, its is quite clear that GT4's Cobra is tamed somewhat (but not overrated).

Regards

Scaff