The next part of Forza Motorsport will be developed openly with the community

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 7' started by TheOE, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Dresden

    Dresden

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    In retail sales it has gone down,

    Forza Motorsports 3- 5.5 million
    Forza Motorsports 4- 4.6 million
    Forza Motorsports 2- 4.05 million
    Forza Motorsports 5- 2.4 million
    Forza Motorsports 6- 2.02 million
    Forza Motorsports 7- 1.52 million
    Forza Motorsports 1- 1.05 million

    However, these numbers do not track digital sales which have increased massively in recent years.
     
  2. ShakesMcQueen

    ShakesMcQueen

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    Xbox 360 also finished the generation with ~80 million units sold. Xbox One is sitting at around 42 million right now, by analyst estimates (since Microsoft don't release official numbers anymore).

    So you've got half the potential install base FM 1 through 4 had, and the rapid growth of digital sales this generation now comprising over 70% of game sales (in the US). And that number is expected to approach 100% in the next few years.

    In other words, quoting physical sales numbers is less than useless in 2019.
     
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  3. RaceFuchs

    RaceFuchs

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    FM7 sold worse for a couple of reasons. There was bad publicity at launch because of the loot boxes, although Microsoft never sold them for money, the reputation of the game took a hit. Then we had strong competition in fall 2017 with PC2 and GT Sport. Casuals moved to Forza Horizon 3 & 4. With the xbox game pass, you dont need to buy the game anymore. Last but not least, FM7 wasnt a huge step forward in the eyes of some people, it was just more of the same...

    Oh, i also would like to point out that Microsofts marketing for FM7 was abysmal, they just put out two trailers and there was almist nothing going on between E3 and the release of the game. That always puzzled me and makes it even more obvious that MS is putting less money and effort into the FM series. I wouldnt be surprised if Horizon 5 would be the laumch title for the next xbox, not FM8.
     
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  4. FoxMulder

    FoxMulder

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    Forza needed work on the online aspect. I left because the online lobbies were only getting worse over the years. FM7 was no different at launch.

    GT Sport offered me a penalty system, driver ratings, at least asks players to race clean. It has qualifying and effective ghosting. Pitting and fuel strategies are fun. Forza doesnt have to add those things, it just means I out grew it and need more from a racing game now. It still does many things well.
     
  5. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    Leaderboards is what was originally used to disprove that sort of claim.

    Regardless, leaderboards do not indicate sales. I'm looking for actual sources.
    What is this sourced from?
     
  6. HyperSpeeder

    HyperSpeeder

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    I think that, for T10 to have extended the game's lifespan by a full year or even more, the game did do well enough to ensure there would be a next one. Could have been less than FM6, of course, but FM5 released too soon with too little content and affected sales of subsequent titles. The Xbox One's launch was also terrible. And there were lots of people in 2017 who stayed in FH3 simply because they found they liked Horizon better even with FM7 trying to cater to Horizon players.

    It's also worth noting Microsoft never bothered adding FM7 to the Game Pass. They could have done it, because Halo 5 and Gears 4 are in there, but didn't. It doesn't mean FM7 sold above expectations, but it could mean it has served its purpose.

    Speaking of Horizon, that franchise's trial by fire will be FH5. Much of FH4's sales were due to the success of FH3, but there are many people quite unhappy with the way FH4 is going. Either way, with Microsoft developing the Game Pass further, sales numbers are becoming increasingly meaningless.

    "Forza doesn't have to add these things"

    Neither did Gran Turismo, but it got them. Why shouldn't Forza get them as well?

    I could say that a simcade focusing on e-sports doesn't make any sense to me considering there's iRacing and the upcoming ACC on PC, both of which proper sims exclusively available on the premier platform for sim racing. Forza wants to do that as well but at least T10 didn't feel like killing the career mode to force players to race online upon release, and certain ForzaRC developments boost many other aspects of the game.

    I'm sorry but your post comes across as a forced attempt to sound mature and promote Gran Turismo at the expense of the "children's game" everyone loves to bash these days.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  7. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros

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    IMSA/IndyCar expansion pack would have been amazing !
     
  8. Dresden

    Dresden

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  9. Dresden

    Dresden

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    Very true about the total sales of XB1 compared to 360. I love both systems but for some reason the demographics have moved on.

    You are also correct in that physical sales do mean nothing when compared to past Forza games. When you add the retail and the digital sales perhaps the numbers are not too bad. However, it does show just how far behind racing games are these days. I will always maintain that a lack of innovation by the game directors have caused the fan base to become disinterested.

    Red Dead Redemption 2- 19.6 million
    Far Cry 5- 5.6 million
    Resident Evil 2- 4 million (after only 1-2 months!)
    GT Sport- 3.77 million
    Need 4 Speed Payback- 2.18 million
    Forza Horizon 4- 1.8 million
    Forza 7- 1.52 million

    These numbers suggest that Dan needs to get serious about listening to the fans.
    Capcom was in the same position and they have turned it all around.
     
  10. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    VG has repeatedly been criticized on this forum as not the most reliable source of sales info. For one, that page doesn't give any actual units besides FH3 & FM6, the rest are all N/A. If you click each title, they report a number in the corner, but under sales tab, everything is under construction....

    FH3 & FM6 are also not consistent. That page indicates FH3 total at 2.5m & FM6 at 1m. Clicking each title changes that; FH3 is at 3.93m & FM6 at 2.02m.
     
  11. Ande3200

    Ande3200

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    I wounder how Forza and gran turismo will play out by their next title. Next gran turismo might not be called gt7, but maybe not sport either. But i think they will bring back the old customize options with a car list around 500-600 with 30-35 track locations. It dosent really matter what the game is called. It might as well have an upgraded vr tour. And if thats turn out that way the rivals is going to struggle to compete with gran turismo
     
  12. UKMikey

    UKMikey

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    I wonder how long such a game would take PD to develop and how many iterations of Forza will have been released by then.
     
  13. dirtydog

    dirtydog

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    If the cap fits. Lazy and/or dishonest, because so much of what they promised for FM7 prior to release was never delivered upon. Turn 10 and Dan Greenawalt come across as used car salesmen. I'm amazed at the praise heaped on them since the last update which made a few minor changes, but still left many of the fundamental problems unaddressed. And some of the changes actually made the game worse, like the previously not, but now hard to see dirty lap icon, or the absolutely stupid distance indicators over players' cars. Oh yeah, gaps are still measured in feet rather than seconds. This is so utterly stupid it's hard to imagine anyone signed off on it, and yet they did.

    The revelation that the company has only a small full time staff but many contractors in the US, and in India and Vietnam, makes clear that the company's philosophy is to produce a barely acceptable product at the lowest price, and fill in the gaps with marketing spin and lies. Because it is lying when you say before release that the game will have a penalty system that will 'take you down' if you drive badly, but two years later it's still nowhere to be seen. How can anyone trust these people?
     
  14. Ande3200

    Ande3200

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    Next gran turismo game i Belive will come out late 2020 or sometime 2021. Forza has release 2 motorsport games each time a gran turismo game comes out. But i rather Wait more to get a good game than get 2 half good games. I think its better it there is one motorsport game within 4 years that would make the game so Much better. Forza motorsport 7 had has some serious issues. And its still dosent deliver in some areas
     
  15. UKMikey

    UKMikey

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    That would be less than a year since its announcement.

    Sorry, the game has been announced though not officially:

    https://www.dualshockers.com/kazunori-yamauchi-gran-turismo-7-sport/

    Whether it's on track for a 2021 release or not I've no way of knowing though. Do the team even have PS5 development hardware? I wonder whether it would be a complete single player game on release or will be offered as a service. 600 cars is still a lot of modelling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  16. Ande3200

    Ande3200

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    There no way of knowing but a new gran turismo game is in works when its releases i don't know. but there have been most of the time 4 years between the every gran turismo game. Exept for gt4-gt5.
    500-600 cars is possible for a gt7 ex becouse gt sport might end up with 400 cars before its end and might be next year. And all the models the have maked is overspeced for ps4 pro. I expect a new gran turismo game in 2021. As far how next gran turismo game will be is hard to say but i Belive they will bring back some of its old features like gt auto and tuning shop.
    500-600 cars is possible if the game come out in 2021. I am even sure they might save some cars that they make for next gran turismo game
     
  17. Russ Petersen

    Russ Petersen

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    I kept waiting so long for something like race regulations to be put in that I finally gave up and have gotten very into iRacing and maybe even ACC if it provides good multiplayer. So much so that I'm not likely to go back to Forza even though I like it's crazy car selection. We'll see. Maybe they will wow me with the Race regulations and unique competitions but I doubt it. I rate Forza as mostly a kiddie crash fest at present and not worth spending my time on even though it has great potential to be something more like GT Sport appears to be.
     
  18. ImaRobot

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    I get some of your points, but what does this even matter for?

    GT sold well with these features. It also sold well missing a good bit of things from the past games too. So I'm not really sure that's the perfect example. It took longer to make less, and it sure is quality over quantity this time when comparing it to itself, but that's a bit overboard.
     
  19. SimTourist

    SimTourist

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    It shows that the team is slow on their feet. They knew from the start the lootboxes were a problem and it took them ages to do anything about it. Personally I didn't care for them either way, but the point is an easy UI change took a lot of effort, which is expected for a small team or an Indy dev, but not a AAA dev with years of experience.
     
  20. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    But that’s the point I’m getting at - what exactly was the problem? There wasn’t one, other than the people that were just absolutely misinformed about the whole situation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  21. 305Michael305

    305Michael305

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    Forza has a big step to climb to catch sim racing assetto corsa and project cars.
     
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  22. SimTourist

    SimTourist

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    If you look at the credits for any Forza game, it's easy to see that the in-house team is very small. And then you see all the things that were made by outsourcing studios: cars, tracks, music, UI, sound, testing, programming, etc. Almost every element is done from the outside, T10 just stitches those things together, this is also the reason why all Forza games feel like they were made by different people, things that worked in the previous game (UI, progression, car sounds) get replaced and reworked but the result is not always better, old bugs and engine quirks carry over for 15 years, and the games feel overly focus tested rather than something created from passion like GT or Assetto.
     
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  23. phillkillv2

    phillkillv2

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    I did some digging around back when FM3/FM4 were big, and I found some of the companies that they sourced their vehicles from, and some of the models were aging from the early 2000s.

    I recently played FM6, and it seemed to be very uninspired, just a mash of a bunch of different things that they thought people that liked cars would like. Sitting and playing it, it made me realize that Turn 10 needs to introduce more simulation aspects to the game and make it a pure racer with proper car classes and more restrictive game modes. Playground Games has the casual crowd, Turn 10 needs to build a game where people who are serious about tuning cars and track racing can go.

    I look at GT Sport, and despite it having less on paper, it just has more character and it seems that Polyphony cares about presentation and coherence, while Turn 10 is playing catch up to Playground Games outclassing them.

    I was thinking about purchasing FM7, but I honestly don't see what I'm missing out on.
     
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  24. ImaRobot

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    So what exactly was the problem with the loot boxes? Because all that has nothing to do with the question I’ve asked multiple times.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  25. Dopplegagger

    Dopplegagger

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    So what is the correct information about the prize crates?

    (Edit note: Removed something I was about to write, before the conversation shifted.)
     
  26. HyperSpeeder

    HyperSpeeder

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    Assetto Corsa also outsources cars. Look at the AC Cobra, Miura and Corvette C7R for example, all outsourced from modders. The C7R seen in a variety of sim racers was sourced from Ales Ogrinc and incorporated into each game, including to my knowledge Assetto Corsa and Project CARS. In the Miura's case, the modder (I think it was the_meco, same guy who made the Cobra) actually purchased a Russian model and did the bulk of the work, then Kunos licensed the car and "ironed things out" for inclusion in the game.

    There was also an Italian they poached from the modding community to make their sounds. The guy used to make sounds independently for games like GTR2.

    Out of all the things you mentioned the only concerning thing is programming. Outsourcing of 3D models has resulted in inaccuracies but I still believe the bulk of the bugs lie on T10's shoulders since they're the ones who have to adapt the car to the engine and add its features. When it comes to the rest, the only way to make things in-house these days is to take things way slow like Gran Turismo does and still passionately release an unfinished product with a UI straight out of the PS1 despite 5 years of development.

    The progression in FM7 is far superior to anything that was in FM6. Sounds like you don't even play the game, while I have the achievement for full completion of the Forza Driver's Cup to my name. Bashing a game based on hearsay is easy and often seen online, the web is saturated with stuff like this.

    T10 is still responsible for the core engine of the game, which is far more important than any car.
     
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  27. BoneSawTX

    BoneSawTX

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    Looks like some are still misinformed.
     
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  28. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    The conversation never shifted. The same question has been asked 3 times now. The only thing that keeps shifting is the avoiding the answer, that you even seem to be doing.

    That they're there, cost no real world money, hold nothing exclusive besides racer gear, and literally not anything remotely close to the actual lootboxes that have been plastered all over the internet in bad stigma. What exactly are you asking, that wasn't painfully obvious if you've played the game and see how that topic gets brought up here?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  29. dirtydog

    dirtydog

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    In your opinion.

    I have both FM6 and 7 and in my opinion 7 still has a horribly bland and tedious 'career' mode which is an incredible chore to grind through.

    Turn 10 lack inspiration and imagination. I don't believe for one moment they care what the community really thinks, except when they fear it might actually hurt the bottom line, then they suddenly pretend to listen - just like politicians do when it's election time.
     
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  30. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    That honestly sounds like most games. Not sure why we're pretending it's not here. Go look at what the community really asks for, and see what actually comes in patches(or even it's full release), for most games.
     
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